Re: Leveling a scope...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm gonna dissent slightly here as this topic, the use of levels is coming up more and more.
The common wisdom is, as stated above, level the rifle and then level the scope to the leveled rifle. Myself and recently others believe this is where the problem lies for many people.
I have discussed where I see very little benefit using a level. In fact using one I feel more comfortable without until I noticed something. Not every rifle is naturally held level in your shoulder. What I have been doing is leveling my scope to the rifle in my shoulder. This way I am consistent in my position and the scope is leveled to the ground. So regardless of my position the rifle is placed in my shoulder the same way every time. I am not trying to level me to the rifle, just leveling the scope to the fall of gravity.
There is no reason to level the rifle. Any cant introduced is because of the scope as it sits over the bore, not because of the position of the barrel. Case in point the Tubb Rifles that are not meant to be held straight up and down. That is leveled to your position, and then the ground. It's not leveled vertical first.
Scope level is important, the rifle should be addressed consistently, which may not necessarily be perfectly straight up and down. So, find a comfortable position, then level the scope to the fall of gravity using a plumb line. This will help with consistency, and when shooting on uneven terrain, as you'll feel it, as well as see it. </div></div>
Respectfully disagree with you in some respects...
You are 100% correct that you should address the rifle consistently every time. However,not having the scope's longitudinal axis, and the bore's longitudinal axis laying on the same vertical plane when the reticle is truely vertical is going to skew your tracking. If I am to understand what you're saying correctly, you are stating that when you are comfortable with your rifle, the reticle is vertical/horizonal, but the rifle may be canted a bit...thus, the bore isn't directly under the scope.
I am sure you have the experience and "feel" to handle this skew, however, I contend this is unadviseable, and in fact, a handicap. I am sure you can shoot through this handicap, but for us mere mortals, I argue we are VERY well advised to do our damndest to get our reticle level when the bore and scope centerlines are directly above/below one another....then do our damndest to take our shots with the reticle level.</div></div>
Pretty sure the bullet drops with gravity, as well the barrel is round so unless it is a centered to any "bend" in the barrel to start, there is no way the reticle is not over the bore, it's mounted over the barrel so the only consideration after that is gravity. The bullet will fall with it, and the reticle has to track with it, so how are you determining the barrel is timed in a way that is exactly 12 to 6 O Clock of the holes in the receiver ? You're not and you can't... not to mention you zero the reticle to where the barrel is pointing. Deviation from a canted rifle is based on the height of the scope over the bore, not the bore alone.
Sorry you're assuming you have control of the barrel when in fact you are only worried about gravity.
Please look up the Tubb Rifles who's bases are canted 7.5 degrees off center ...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The picatinny (mil-spec.) rail on the Spectacular is very robust not only in exterior design but also due to its use of 8X40 socket head mounting screws which secure the rail to the action. This effort was made to keep a dropped rifle from shifting its zero. <span style="font-weight: bold">The receiver rail is set at 7.5 degrees of cant in order to better fit the individual shooter's ergonomic position. This allows the shooter to be more comfortable in position and translates into a higher probability of hits</span>.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm gonna dissent slightly here as this topic, the use of levels is coming up more and more.
The common wisdom is, as stated above, level the rifle and then level the scope to the leveled rifle. Myself and recently others believe this is where the problem lies for many people.
I have discussed where I see very little benefit using a level. In fact using one I feel more comfortable without until I noticed something. Not every rifle is naturally held level in your shoulder. What I have been doing is leveling my scope to the rifle in my shoulder. This way I am consistent in my position and the scope is leveled to the ground. So regardless of my position the rifle is placed in my shoulder the same way every time. I am not trying to level me to the rifle, just leveling the scope to the fall of gravity.
There is no reason to level the rifle. Any cant introduced is because of the scope as it sits over the bore, not because of the position of the barrel. Case in point the Tubb Rifles that are not meant to be held straight up and down. That is leveled to your position, and then the ground. It's not leveled vertical first.
Scope level is important, the rifle should be addressed consistently, which may not necessarily be perfectly straight up and down. So, find a comfortable position, then level the scope to the fall of gravity using a plumb line. This will help with consistency, and when shooting on uneven terrain, as you'll feel it, as well as see it. </div></div>
Respectfully disagree with you in some respects...
You are 100% correct that you should address the rifle consistently every time. However,not having the scope's longitudinal axis, and the bore's longitudinal axis laying on the same vertical plane when the reticle is truely vertical is going to skew your tracking. If I am to understand what you're saying correctly, you are stating that when you are comfortable with your rifle, the reticle is vertical/horizonal, but the rifle may be canted a bit...thus, the bore isn't directly under the scope.
I am sure you have the experience and "feel" to handle this skew, however, I contend this is unadviseable, and in fact, a handicap. I am sure you can shoot through this handicap, but for us mere mortals, I argue we are VERY well advised to do our damndest to get our reticle level when the bore and scope centerlines are directly above/below one another....then do our damndest to take our shots with the reticle level.</div></div>
Pretty sure the bullet drops with gravity, as well the barrel is round so unless it is a centered to any "bend" in the barrel to start, there is no way the reticle is not over the bore, it's mounted over the barrel so the only consideration after that is gravity. The bullet will fall with it, and the reticle has to track with it, so how are you determining the barrel is timed in a way that is exactly 12 to 6 O Clock of the holes in the receiver ? You're not and you can't... not to mention you zero the reticle to where the barrel is pointing. Deviation from a canted rifle is based on the height of the scope over the bore, not the bore alone.
Sorry you're assuming you have control of the barrel when in fact you are only worried about gravity.
Please look up the Tubb Rifles who's bases are canted 7.5 degrees off center ...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The picatinny (mil-spec.) rail on the Spectacular is very robust not only in exterior design but also due to its use of 8X40 socket head mounting screws which secure the rail to the action. This effort was made to keep a dropped rifle from shifting its zero. <span style="font-weight: bold">The receiver rail is set at 7.5 degrees of cant in order to better fit the individual shooter's ergonomic position. This allows the shooter to be more comfortable in position and translates into a higher probability of hits</span>.</div></div>
