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Leveling your scope
- Thread starter EddieE
- Start date
Add me to the list that uses the Dead Level and plum bob.
Engineers level on the action and plum bob . But you also need to see how well the elevation tracks with the plum bob and the cross hair for scope where you crank on elevation . I have ( had ) one scope where they don't line up at all .
Feeler gauges at home on the workbench or hanging para cord at the range.
I use the feeler gauges also and back it up with a plumb bob test. I use the plumb bob on the wall behind the stock. Make sure Rifle is level, and shine a flashlight back through the scope and make sure the shadow and plumb bob match up. I’m literally getting ready to do this on my RPR as soon as I quit looking at all the stuff on here.
When you have a flat surface on the rifle (such as a picatinny rail) and a flat surface on the bottom of the scope, you can stack feeler gauges between them to get the scope level with the rifle. That said, some shooters don't care if the scope is level to the rifle (and may prefer a canted rifle position) as long as the level mounted to their scope is true. See this video for how to use a flashlight to level your scope:
Levels and plumb bob, check everything 3 times
then followup with a tall target test and dial up about 8 to 10 MILS
then followup with a tall target test and dial up about 8 to 10 MILS
He’s talking about the shining light through the objective method.
Casts a shadow of the reticle on the wall. Line the shadow up with plumb line.
I know what he’s talking about but why would anyone do this? The amount of error that is introduced if your flashlight isn’t 100% perfect behind the scope alone makes it useless. Why not just look through the scope and line it up with a bob?
I generally use feeler gauges, it doesn't matter what orientation the rifle is in, it works just the same. If I can't use feeler gauges I level the rifle then use a 4' level proper against the fence about 15 yards away to set the reticle. I don't have access to more than 600 yards so either of these methods are more that adequate.
What is with this need to perfectly level the scope to the rifle?
Don't you guys know that does not matter?
The only thing that matters is the scope to be level when you shoot it.
Ever watch G David Tubbs shoot? He holds the rifle on about a 30 degree angle for improved ergonomics.
Level on the rifle means next to nothing... don't waste your time.
You would be better served to focus on setting up the rifle for an ergonomic position to reduce muscle strain and level the scope to whatever that is for you.
Don't you guys know that does not matter?
The only thing that matters is the scope to be level when you shoot it.
Ever watch G David Tubbs shoot? He holds the rifle on about a 30 degree angle for improved ergonomics.
Level on the rifle means next to nothing... don't waste your time.
You would be better served to focus on setting up the rifle for an ergonomic position to reduce muscle strain and level the scope to whatever that is for you.
That's the thing about bases with levels in them... they force you to hold the rifle level... and that's not a benefit. I have a set of MDT bases like that... and I ignore that level.
It's actually better to mount the level on a ring that can rotate around the scope tube so you can set it where you want it.
I am new to long distance shooting, others that I know swear to me that is critical to dial up the scope to comp for bullet drop out to 1000 and beyond
now my head hurts
I need to unlevel my scope and go shoot some rounds to make my head stop hurting
Unless you have some extreme difference in you body size or shape, there’s much more benefit to leveling the optic with the rifle and learning to shoot the rifle in a neutral position. At least for tactical/practical purposes.
If you have to shoot the rifle weak side or in a spot where you either have to shoot another rifle or a rifle that doesn’t have universal adjustments (most hunting rifles), you will have done yourself a disservice not learning how to shoot a rifle with a neutral setup.
Olympic shooting and some other disciplines you need the rifle to be as close to perfect to the individual shooter as possible. Practical shooting is a different beast.
Here a couple opinions from some guys who know a thing or two.
Just food for thought.
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Without the rifle being level, and the reticle being tangent to the bore, you’ll have to deal with departure which will ever increase as distance increases. You need the rifle level when the reticle is plumb to gravity.
His rifle is canted, but his reticle is still perpendicular to the bore. That’s the key here. He has a special base machined at the same angle as his cant. Othwise departure would be ridiculous. So without that base, you can’t cant the rifle and then square the reticle to gravity.
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This is just wrong. It doesn’t matter of the rifle is canted 45 degrees or 4 degrees, as long as the reticle is level it’s good to go. But as others have stated, it’s best to have a level rifle and a level reticle. Which is why the badger dead level is a no brainer. You mount and level the scope away from the rifle then when you put it in the rifle they are magically both level. It doesn’t get any easier or better. And bubble levels of any kind are a crutch.
Seems guys are confusing cant with leveling the scope.
Cant is where the rifle and sight is rotated out of alignment. So counter clockwise rotation would shift POI to the left and down.... but that is not what I'm advocating here...
If the scope is level when the rifle is rotated counter clockwise 10 degrees for example the bullet will run a parallel path to the line of sight so slightly to the right that its not likely it would be noticed.... less than a scope click.
If the rifle was turned a ridiculous full 90 degrees the bullet would run a parallel path equal to the scope height.
Cant is where the rifle and sight is rotated out of alignment. So counter clockwise rotation would shift POI to the left and down.... but that is not what I'm advocating here...
If the scope is level when the rifle is rotated counter clockwise 10 degrees for example the bullet will run a parallel path to the line of sight so slightly to the right that its not likely it would be noticed.... less than a scope click.
If the rifle was turned a ridiculous full 90 degrees the bullet would run a parallel path equal to the scope height.
The issue here is the assumption is that when the scope was mounted it was done on a level rifle and a level reticle. If I purposely introduce a slight rifle cant then level the reticle it is the same as level rifle level reticle. Then this chart becomes valid if I deviate away from that intentional cant. As @Dthomas3523 shared opinions of @velayo_0317 and @Terry Cross i am in the same camp. It should be level rifle and level reticle. BUT, some of us have body types where maybe a small amount of intentional cant is necessary due to injury or something. But just like level/level, any deviation from cant/level, will cause shift. The offsets can be accounted for when you zero and as you gather dope as well as in your calculator if it’s worth a shit.
To clarify, I’m talking slight cant. Couple degrees. But let’s say I rolled a full 90 degrees? No issues, you just have to account for it. Know your rifle. Know your scope. Know your dope. Anything can be overcome.
Dude, start reading more and posting less. First you want a ballistic calculator to predict when your zero will change, now this shit.
Your posts are not good and we understand exactly what you are proposing.
You are proposing a rifle set up to the shooter which may be canted (if you put a level on the picatinny rail, it wouldn’t be level) and then leveling the scope to gravity.
This is fine if it’s something you really want to do or if you have given an honest effort to correct and just can’t. Or with olympic or high power competitions.
However, as far as *practical/tactical* shooting is concerned, learning to shoot a level rifle/level optic with a neutral cheek piece is the best way to go.
When you’re in tight quarters and awkward positions, it’s easier to have a level rifle/optic setup than to be trying to fumble around with a rifle that was setup for your strong side only with a 10 degree cant.
Since it is impossible to zero the scope perfectly without shims, the scope is probably off by up to 1/2 click no matter how level the scope is.
The only way a canted rifle shoots straight, with a scope that is plumbed to the fall of gravity, is when the reticle is perpendicular to the axis of the bore, like David Tubb has, with his special scope mount. Most mounts do not facilitate this.
That’s what zero offsets in calculators are for.......
Again, more reading, less posting.
Let me ask you this. If I have a reticle that is plumb and a rifle that is canted at 45 degrees. Is that reticle not still perpendicular to the bore? What you mean is directly over the bore right?
The bullet doesn’t care where it exits. It’s still perpendicular no matter where it is.
This is outside of my knowledge base, as I level rifle and level optic to rifle, but with cant on the rifle such as in the picture, wouldn’t we have to account for the horizontal diffence in the optic’s line of sight vs the line of travel for the bullet?
I.E. we already have to take into account the vertical movement of the bullet due to gravity.
With the optic now basically to the left of the rifle bore, we’d have to compensate for the bullet leaving/entering the horizontal line of sight?
Obviously we could gather this data, but it would require extra work.
Also, for the small amount of cant most would have in a rifle setup, it likely wouldn’t show up in practical differences. Just making conversation at this point.
Yes. In the extreme example I showed just to illustrate that a reticle is always perpendicular to the bore no matter where it is, you have to account for it. Now there is a sight offset not just a height over bore that has to be accounted for. But again, if your calculator is worth a shit, it can be accounted for.
I have always used leveling the rifle with action, so I put the level on the rail and the scope to make sure they're aligned. I signed up for Snipers Hide training and they mentioned the only thing that matters is the scope is level when you shoot it. They said get behind the rifle, dry fire a few times and set the scope level to how you fire your rifle.
The bullet should always follow the same curve of gravity. Now as you zero your rifle properly and the scope is level across your zero, those adjustments and shifts are important to keep the scope always level when you shoot.
I initially had everything leveled with the action and I noticed that everytime I got comfortable behind the rifle, standing, on a barricade, and prone, the rifle naturally on my body was canted a few degrees. I ended up adjusting the scope to the way I naturally get behind my rifle, and now I can pick it up put it on my body in prone, barrier, and standing, and have my scope level which I think is the correct way to do it?
The bullet should always follow the same curve of gravity. Now as you zero your rifle properly and the scope is level across your zero, those adjustments and shifts are important to keep the scope always level when you shoot.
I initially had everything leveled with the action and I noticed that everytime I got comfortable behind the rifle, standing, on a barricade, and prone, the rifle naturally on my body was canted a few degrees. I ended up adjusting the scope to the way I naturally get behind my rifle, and now I can pick it up put it on my body in prone, barrier, and standing, and have my scope level which I think is the correct way to do it?
No, it wouldn't be. Look up what perpendicular means.
If the main vertical subtension doesn't bisect the bore, you do not have a perpendicular setup.
This is how David Tubb does it. The rifle is 30*. The retical is still perpendicular to the bore, because he has a special mount.
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^ I suppose this might be one of the things Tubbs does but its not the only thing he does.
Whidden is also known for deliberately canting the rifle as well as plenty of others.
Important thing is the rifle is always used from the same position... you don't mix and match sometimes straight up and sometimes canted unless you are deliberately making he appropriate sight adjustments.
Whidden is also known for deliberately canting the rifle as well as plenty of others.
Important thing is the rifle is always used from the same position... you don't mix and match sometimes straight up and sometimes canted unless you are deliberately making he appropriate sight adjustments.
