LMT .308 MWS

[svxwilson]

I think made the mistake of cleaning my 16" CL .308 barrel too well. The rifle has always been right around MOA with 168 FGMM and 168SMK/Varget. This is over about 600 rounds. At 200 rounds I ran a snake down it a few times and kept on trucking. Couple weeks ago the groups opened up so I cleaned the barrel well. Take it out and its shooting 2 to 3 MOA. Completely random groups over about forty rounds. Start checking everything, scope, mount all good. So I pull the barrel, check everything visually, run some patches down the barrel to be sure there is nothing there to cause any problem and reinstall with the LMT provided wrench. Go shoot with 168 FGMM and its still printing like a shotgun.

I read about the shitty LMT torque wrenches so I take the rife to a buddies shop, pull the barrel, seat it with the rifle vertical and torque it to 140 inch pounds with a Snap On torque wrench. I take it out and run twenty rounds of 150gr ball through it to put some copper in the bore. Let the rifle cool then shoot two five round groups with 168 FGMM and they are just under 3 MOA. I have a friend who knows what he's doing shoot a couple groups just to remove one more variable and it does the same exact thing. I'm running an ERS scope in ADM mount so I take that off and put it on my buddies new Rainier .308 to see if that could be the problem. We both shoot solid MOA groups with that rifle and my scope.

At this point I'm ready to throw this thing in a lake. I take it home let it sit for a few days and decided if its going to shoot like a battle rifle then so be it I'll just make it one. I pull the PRS stock, ERS optic and Geissele National Match trigger out of it and put the factory stock set up, an SSA-E and a Vortex 1-6 on it. Then I let it sit in the safe as I was tired of dicking with it.

I finally decide to call LMT and see if they have any guidance. I spend ten minutes going through the whole spiel and the guy says "It must be something with the barrel then" I ask if I send it in will they look at it and fix it if they find something. He tells me he will authorize a return but since I used reloaded ammunition in the gun it voided the warranty and if they find any problems with the barrel I will have to pay for it. To say I was stunned to hear that would be an understatement. I specifically only shot FGMM after the problems started to remove the variable of handloads and explained that to him but it did no good. I told him I ran handloads through it so my warranty is void. I just said "Thanks" and hung up. Pissed would be an understatement.

So a few days ago I take the rifle out to zero the 1-6 at 100. I fire four rounds to get it where I want it then fire a four round group just because I am a masochist and thats what was left in the mag. I just see that its on target through the scope so I put it away not really looking at the group too close mainly because at 6 power I cant tell a whole lot other than there are holes where I want them. End of the session I walk down and it has three rounds in about 3/4" with one low opening it up to about a 1.5 MOA group with a 6 power optic and not really giving too much of a shit behind the trigger.

So now I'm hoping that I just needed to run a lot more rounds down the barrel than I would of imagined to get it shooting again. I had forty four rounds down the bore before that four round group. It was the smallest I have seen since I cleaned the damn thing originally. I was done for the day or I would of shot more to see what was going on. I plan to take it back out and shoot more with the 1-6 and then put the ERS back on it to try that.

The whole thing has been a giant pain in my ass. I was pretty happy with the rifle before this ordeal. I'm hoping it all comes down to having put a bunch of copper in that barrel before it comes back. We'll see.

Pic of a friend on the rifle set up with PRS and ERS:

Nice pic with a piece of brass in mid flight! Looks like it's going to smack the camera!

 

[rdbse]

I think made the mistake of cleaning my 16" CL .308 barrel too well. The rifle has always been right around MOA with 168 FGMM and 168SMK/Varget. This is over about 600 rounds. At 200 rounds I ran a snake down it a few times and kept on trucking. Couple weeks ago the groups opened up so I cleaned the barrel well. Take it out and its shooting 2 to 3 MOA. Completely random groups over about forty rounds. Start checking everything, scope, mount all good. So I pull the barrel, check everything visually, run some patches down the barrel to be sure there is nothing there to cause any problem and reinstall with the LMT provided wrench. Go shoot with 168 FGMM and its still printing like a shotgun.

I read about the shitty LMT torque wrenches so I take the rife to a buddies shop, pull the barrel, seat it with the rifle vertical and torque it to 140 inch pounds with a Snap On torque wrench. I take it out and run twenty rounds of 150gr ball through it to put some copper in the bore. Let the rifle cool then shoot two five round groups with 168 FGMM and they are just under 3 MOA. I have a friend who knows what he's doing shoot a couple groups just to remove one more variable and it does the same exact thing. I'm running an ERS scope in ADM mount so I take that off and put it on my buddies new Rainier .308 to see if that could be the problem. We both shoot solid MOA groups with that rifle and my scope.

At this point I'm ready to throw this thing in a lake. I take it home let it sit for a few days and decided if its going to shoot like a battle rifle then so be it I'll just make it one. I pull the PRS stock, ERS optic and Geissele National Match trigger out of it and put the factory stock set up, an SSA-E and a Vortex 1-6 on it. Then I let it sit in the safe as I was tired of dicking with it.

I finally decide to call LMT and see if they have any guidance. I spend ten minutes going through the whole spiel and the guy says "It must be something with the barrel then" I ask if I send it in will they look at it and fix it if they find something. He tells me he will authorize a return but since I used reloaded ammunition in the gun it voided the warranty and if they find any problems with the barrel I will have to pay for it. To say I was stunned to hear that would be an understatement. I specifically only shot FGMM after the problems started to remove the variable of handloads and explained that to him but it did no good. I told him I ran handloads through it so my warranty is void. I just said "Thanks" and hung up. Pissed would be an understatement.

So a few days ago I take the rifle out to zero the 1-6 at 100. I fire four rounds to get it where I want it then fire a four round group just because I am a masochist and thats what was left in the mag. I just see that its on target through the scope so I put it away not really looking at the group too close mainly because at 6 power I cant tell a whole lot other than there are holes where I want them. End of the session I walk down and it has three rounds in about 3/4" with one low opening it up to about a 1.5 MOA group with a 6 power optic and not really giving too much of a shit behind the trigger.

So now I'm hoping that I just needed to run a lot more rounds down the barrel than I would of imagined to get it shooting again. I had forty four rounds down the bore before that four round group. It was the smallest I have seen since I cleaned the damn thing originally. I was done for the day or I would of shot more to see what was going on. I plan to take it back out and shoot more with the 1-6 and then put the ERS back on it to try that.

The whole thing has been a giant pain in my ass. I was pretty happy with the rifle before this ordeal. I'm hoping it all comes down to having put a bunch of copper in that barrel before it comes back. We'll see.

Are you shooting mostly off a bench? I suggest shooting prone so you can load the bipod more and get your body behind the rifle. It took me several months to learn how to properly shoot my LMT MWS. Semi-auto 308 guns are a different animal.

 

[JCIN]

Are you shooting mostly off a bench? I suggest shooting prone so you can load the bipod more and get your body behind the rifle. It took me several months to learn how to properly shoot my LMT MWS. Semi-auto 308 guns are a different animal.

I was shooting off a bench with bipod and bag. In the past I have never had a problem shooting that way and have the groups in a notebook from the load work ups. I can see position having some affect but not going from consistent 1-1.5 MOA to 3. I went directly from shooting 3 MOA with the LMT to 1 MOA with a Rainier .308. Same position, same bipod, same bag, same scope, same ammo and a trigger that is two pounds heavier.

Next time I take it out I'll shoot some with it prone. Anything is possible I guess.

 

[itieknots7]

JCIN,

When you bought the rifle did you clean the barrel the first time or just start shooting?

What did you use to clean the rifle at 600 rounds (copper solvent/ brushes etc)

 

[JCIN]

I am the second owner of the rifle I bought it at a local store that had it on consignment. Previous owner was going to Cali so had to sell. Rifle looked unfired to me so I just ran a snake down the bore and started shooting.

When I cleaned it I used Shooters Choice bore solvent and about ten strokes with a bronze brush. Then patched till clean. Second time I cleaned it after it wouldnt shoot, when I pulled the barrel and re-torqued it I ran some Shooters Choice down the bore with a couple patches then patched dry. No brushing.

 

[Thebelly]

When you call LMT I would recommend talking to Gene. The 2 times I have called he has called me back within the day.

I speak with Gene when I call. I have had nothing but positive experiences with LMT's customer service.

 

[JCIN]

I want to say I spoke to Ryan but there is a good chance that's wrong. After I was told my warranty was void because I shot something other than factory ammo I was shocked/pissed enough that I probably didnt remember the name correctly. The guy I spoke to seemed knowledgable and was willing to try and help diagnose the problem. He was adamant that anything requiring work was coming out of my pocket though.

The general take away for me was that I was on my own. Now that I know that I will proceed accordingly.

 

[Thebelly]

I want to say I spoke to Ryan but there is a good chance that's wrong. After I was told my warranty was void because I shot something other than factory ammo I was shocked/pissed enough that I probably didnt remember the name correctly. The guy I spoke to seemed knowledgable and was willing to try and help diagnose the problem. He was adamant that anything requiring work was coming out of my pocket though.

I think most companies will have a similar policy. They have to protect themselves from folks that think 49gr of TrailBoss is a good idea, yet wonder why their gun exploded in their face. They just don't know who was doing the loading and to what pressures, etc., etc.

 

[thebubba04]

Has anyone had any issues with gen3 magazines?

 

[JCIN]

I think most companies will have a similar policy. They have to protect themselves from folks that think 49gr of TrailBoss is a good idea, yet wonder why their gun exploded in their face. They just don't know who was doing the loading and to what pressures, etc., etc.

I get that. If I called and told them I had a .308 bolt sticking out of my neck because my trusty never fail load of 40 grains of 231 under a 300 grainer went wrong I could see starting off with "Not warrantied". Thats not what the problem is though. It is what it is. I'll either figure it out or not. I'll have it out later this week to see if putting more rounds down the tube will tighten it up.

 

[JCIN]

Double tap.

 

[Thebelly]

Thats not what the problem is though. It is what it is. I'll either figure it out or not. I'll have it out later this week to see if putting more rounds down the tube will tighten it up.

My MWS loves to run pretty dirty. I ran 80 rounds through it before I started doing any accuracy testing.

What was your expected accuracy result from a 16" CL barrel? (I'm honestly not trying to be rude, as I don't know what other's expectations are...)

 

[JCIN]

My MWS loves to run pretty dirty. I ran 80 rounds through it before I started doing any accuracy testing.

What was your expected accuracy result from a 16" CL barrel? (I'm honestly not trying to be rude, as I don't know what other's expectations are...)

All I expect is that it shoots what it has in the past. That has been 1-1.5 MOA. I dont expect half MOA or anything ridiculous. I have a GAP bolt gun for that. I just got back from the range where I ran fifty rounds through it on steel out to 500. I didnt put up any paper as I only brought it to run some some more rounds through it and had a limited amount of time. It put ten rounds in a turkey silhouette at 400 so it is shooting minute of turkey at the moment with a Vortex 1-6.

These are representative of what it did before the wheels fell off.

I now have 90+ rounds through it since cleaning. Next outing I'll put it on paper and see where its at. I like the rifle I've just never had one go completely wonky like this one has.

 

[Thebelly]

JCIN: You going out this weekend to shoot it? I'm actually really looking forward to how it does.

 

[Thebelly]

Once I got my barrel torqued down correctly, I put witness marks on it. It's nice to know where it should be and if it comes a little loose.

 

[LVdubbin]

JCIN, I shoot at that same range. Actually, just last weekend I was out there. I have the same gun too. So most of our variables should be the same. Last weekend I was out testing some new 178gr AMAX loads. Here is all the information I have to give at the moment. Please note that all of these rounds were shot through a Specwar 762 suppressor, but from my experience loading for the MWS these gas guns do not like to be pushed fast. They are overgassed as all hell from the factory. I'm also running a Slash carbine 308 XH heavy buffer and it still doesn't slow it down enough.


This pic is of the 42.4gr Varget load. It may be slow, but it groups well in the this gun. And pay no attention to the surrounding three flyers. Those were from fouler rounds, as I was trying to zero a new scope. The group is a 5 round group.

And here is all the velocity data from that day. Sorry, but no pics of the other groups. They weren't anything special anyhow.

 

[JCIN]

JCIN, I shoot at that same range. Actually, just last weekend I was out there. I have the same gun too. So most of our variables should be the same. Last weekend I was out testing some new 178gr AMAX loads. Here is all the information I have to give at the moment. Please note that all of these rounds were shot through a Specwar 762 suppressor, but from my experience loading for the MWS these gas guns do not like to be pushed fast. They are overgassed as all hell from the factory. I'm also running a Slash carbine 308 XH heavy buffer and it still doesn't slow it down enough.

Thanks for the info I appreciate it. When I was running the those tests I had a Slash XH 10 oz. Rifle buffer in a PRS. Makes a big difference from the H3/Carbine stock but I agree on the over gassing. I was new to the gun when I did those and didnt know to back off on the speed. I have been running 42.8 of 4064 and a 168 SMK or Nosler CC or 168 FGMM.

I took it out this morning and put a Bushnell ERS on it to shoot some groups. I had 90 rounds through it since cleaning when I started. First two groups were 168 FGMM. Shot prone with a Harris and rear bag.

First one which is actually on the small side of what it has been doing:

Second one shows another oddity I noticed after cleaning and that was two small tight clusters in different spots. This makes me think it could be something I'm doing but its been acting so completely random compared to how it normally shot I don't know.

Next two were with 168 SMK and 42.8 of 4064.

Third group:

Fourth is ten round group. The high shot was me. Guy next to me fired just as I was starting and I yanked it. I measured the nine shots I felt good about.

I shot 30 rounds of 6.5 Creedmoor through a bolt gun before picking up the MWS so while possible the first group can be explained by first group out of the rifle for the shooter it shows what it has been doing consistently (only worse) after the cleaning so maybe its me but I really felt good about the fundamentals on the shots so who knows. I was focusing on breathing, loading the bipod and follow through on the trigger. The last ten shot group is about what I expect out of the rifle so it looks like its starting to come around. Time will tell I guess.

 

[LVdubbin]

JCIN, I have a question for you. How are you cleaning your brass? Are you using wet tumbling using SS pins?

 

[LVdubbin]

Also, if it is your barrel. A new CL lined barrel can be had for around $250 on the EE. Hell, I'd even let you swap in my barrel if you wanted to. That way you could know for sure that your barrel is bad.

 

[Dirtyboy333]

$600 for a SS .260/6.5 barrel and they tell you "it's not match grade"....that's ridiculous!!!

Love my MWS and my CL barrel but I have had nothing but wasted money and frustration with the MWS stainless barrels. I will never buy them again. And by seeing many others results is clear that the stainless barrels are flat out underperforming. I would suggest to anyone wanting a new stainless barrel that the only option is to get the conversion and then at least you get a real match barrel and a barrel that's not completely overgassed. It should not be this difficult to get consistent accuracy as it is with LMT stainless barrels. In the past couple years, on many different sites, I've been following the MWS stainless barrels and they are flat out not worth the money

 

[LVdubbin]

The center group on the bottom target is 42.0gr of Varget behind a 168gr Nosler CC BTHP using RP brass. This was also a 5-shot group suppressed.

 

[JCIN]

JCIN, I have a question for you. How are you cleaning your brass? Are you using wet tumbling using SS pins?

Walnut media in a Dillon CV-2001 to get them clean enough to resize/deprime then into a sonic cleaner to clean up the primer pockets/case lube.

 

[Thebelly]

$600 for a SS .260/6.5 barrel and they tell you "it's not match grade"....that's ridiculous!!

I asked the question, "How, in your opinion, do your customers use your .260/6.5 MWS barrels?" I can't assume they know, but I didn't want to be insulting.... I told them that I used mine for practical precision competition shooting and that the ability to easily switch the same gun between .308 and the .260-6.5 offerings is something that needed to be explored with a deeper factory offering.

 

[JCIN]

Also, if it is your barrel. A new CL lined barrel can be had for around $250 on the EE. Hell, I'd even let you swap in my barrel if you wanted to. That way you could know for sure that your barrel is bad.

I really appreciate the offer. It's running around 1.5 MOA now so I'm just going to chalk it up to the barrel having to be good and fouled to run. I'm either just going keep it set up with a Vortex 1-6 as a battle rifle type set up or more likely end up moving it down the road for a bolt gun. I am about through with my .308 gas gun phase I think. I have had the MWS and a PredatAR both of which are less precision and more battle rifle types IMO. I find that I enjoy a bolt gun more for what I use a .308 for anyway. Thanks for your help. Maybe will run into each other at PGC some time.

 

[Dirtyboy333]

I asked the question, "How, in your opinion, do your customers use your .260/6.5 MWS barrels?" I can't assume they know, but I didn't want to be insulting.... I told them that I used mine for practical precision competition shooting and that the ability to easily switch the same gun between .308 and the .260-6.5 offerings is something that needed to be explored with a deeper factory offering.

Right. I really hope that your newer barrel is the "exception" and you get results worth your money. Considering ammo prices and the labor of reloading, it can get very frustrating.

 

[thmpr]

This is why I will use the MRP conversion route using a known good mfg. barrel maker like JP.

 

[LVdubbin]

I was thinking that maybe a SS pin got left in a case and maybe fired through the barrel unknowingly. This has happened before...

 

[Thebelly]

I was thinking that maybe a SS pin got left in a case and maybe fired through the barrel unknowingly. This has happened before...

Worst nightmare of anyone using a wet tumbler.... Ugh!

 

[Dirtyboy333]

This is why I will use the MRP conversion route using a known good mfg. barrel maker like JP.

That's exactly what i have planned as soon as funds allow. Will be great getting a quality blank instead of paying $600 for one from the DPMS reject bin.

ETA: clearly an exaggeration. Just venting some frustration out.

 

[thmpr]

I was thinking that maybe a SS pin got left in a case and maybe fired through the barrel unknowingly. This has happened before...

Wow... good to know.

 

[problemchild]

I cant speak for all the other SS barrels out there but mine shoots. It likes being dirty. If I clean it I need to get the round count back up before it shoot tight again. I am talking about copper cleaning not carbon.

I had the CL barrel and upgraded. I saw my group size almost cut in half. I also use XBR powder and noticed when I switched from Varget that my group size got smaller and XBR seemed more tolerant of 155/168/175. Where Varget would shoot one good XBR shot all 3 great.

I am in the 42gr range for xbr.

With dirt cheap magtech ammo (shoots 3" in most guns) I shot sub 1 at 100.

With handloads I get more consistent groups like this.......... (loaded on a dillon 650 no less, cranked out at 500rds per hours--pulled smk's)

$600 for a SS .260/6.5 barrel and they tell you "it's not match grade"....that's ridiculous!!!

Love my MWS and my CL barrel but I have had nothing but wasted money and frustration with the MWS stainless barrels. I will never buy them again. And by seeing many others results is clear that the stainless barrels are flat out underperforming. I would suggest to anyone wanting a new stainless barrel that the only option is to get the conversion and then at least you get a real match barrel and a barrel that's not completely overgassed. It should not be this difficult to get consistent accuracy as it is with LMT stainless barrels. In the past couple years, on many different sites, I've been following the MWS stainless barrels and they are flat out not worth the money

 

[Dirtyboy333]

Problemchild: I'm happy to see yours shooting well. My SS would print groups like what you posted but not in any consistent fashion.

Question: how old is your barrel? I'm just curious if it's an older Rock because those did shoot very well. When LMT was switching barrel makers I remember them telling quite a few people to not worry because the new barrels will be just as, if not more accurate than the Rocks. Of course, that's pretty much what any mfg would have to say. Lol. They are not gonna say that new barrels are going to be sub-par. I remember the price drop when they switched though

 

[Dirtyboy333]

Eta: also, if your barrel is a newer one, what kind of consistency are you getting group to group. Have you ran that barrel on elfsters challenge?

If I recall correctly, you have had your MWS for a long time. I think I rembee reeding your posts whenever I was getting ready to buy mine. I could be wrong tho


IIRC my best group with my SS was .62" 5 shot. I also had many other MOA or under but the vast majority were 1.5-2.5". MOA was a rare occasion and this is ALL with Amax and SMK's and even some Nosler bthp. After a year or so of trying with the SS I swapped in my CL and was instant MOAish consistency. My CL is a Rock.

 

[itieknots7]

Eta: also, if your barrel is a newer one, what kind of consistency are you getting group to group. Have you ran that barrel on elfsters challenge?

If I recall correctly, you have had your MWS for a long time. I think I rembee reeding your posts whenever I was getting ready to buy mine. I could be wrong tho


IIRC my best group with my SS was .62" 5 shot. I also had many other MOA or under but the vast majority were 1.5-2.5". MOA was a rare occasion and this is ALL with Amax and SMK's and even some Nosler bthp. After a year or so of trying with the SS I swapped in my CL and was instant MOAish consistency. My CL is a Rock.

How do you tell if your CL is a rock?

 

[Dirtyboy333]

How do you tell if your CL is a rock?

I don't know if there are any identifying marks or not but mine was manufactured a good while before they made the switch. Although, I bet that there is someway of telling. My CL has the words ingraved in front of the gas block at 12 o'clock. My most recent stainless was engraved in between the receiver and GB at about 4 o'clock IIRC. my CL says "308" and SS was "762". I have no idea if this means anything though.

 

[997/2man]

Guys, this is why I sold my MWS. I was getting 1.5" with FGMM, or BH. Gen I, over gassed, cheap to buy ($2400), but not that accurate.


Not that a piece of steel or a bad guy would know the difference. Still...

Good Luck.

 

[Thebelly]

In my gun, the 123 Nosler CCs work well. I was able to squeeze out quite a few .8"-.9" groups. One was even down to .67". I'd hazard to say that .9" is a realistic expectation.

Using LC LR brass sized down, 41.0 gr of H4350, and a Fed 210 primer (non-match), I get 2697 fps, with an SD of 6 and an ES of 14. I also taper crimp each round.

Also, my .260 barrel likes a base-to-ogive length of 2.285". The Nosler Custom Competition 123 gr boolits can be loaded to that length and have some room to spare in a PMAG. Adjusting loading off the lands will be easy with these bullets.

 

[Dirtyboy333]

Guys, this is why I sold my MWS. I was getting 1.5" with FGMM, or BH. Gen I, over gassed, cheap to buy ($2400), but not that accurate.


Not that a piece of steel or a bad guy would know the difference. Still...

Good Luck.

I hear ya. If the market wasn't so buyer friendly right now, I would probably be in the same boat at you. I'm willing to "sacrifice" a little reliability (I.e. GAS) for some more consistency. It pains me because of LMT's great rep. but I blamed myself and made every excuse in the world to why my gun wasn't shooting as expected. 1.5"+ May be acceptable to the MOD spending easy-to-come-by tax payer money but it's doesn't cut it for me spending my own $700 on a barrel. Especially with all the great options out there shooting bug holes.

I've been thinking of this for a while now and I want to hear your thoughts on it. Do you remember the disaster of a thread with The jackass Corby from FD Defense? While those guys were truly speaking out their ass there was one bit of info on their website that has been bothering me ever since I read it. It basically stated that the radial-clamping (MWS) method of attaching the barrel is lacking in reguards to accuracy because the most important thing is to have axial-force (the barrel being pulled with strong force to the receiver) like all the other AR platforms. And the website went on to say that the MWS basically has 0 of that particular force.

I haven't the slightest clue about the validity of that statement but it's been bugging me ever since I read it (because it sounds half-plausible upon first thought) Anyone have any technical/mechanical knowledge on this?

 

[Dirtyboy333]

ETA: I'm going to give it another try and dump some $ on a known quality .260/6.5 & conversion and spend some time withit. If it still doesn't perform, I'm gonna part ways. Which will pain me deeply knowing all the labor I put into it. But, I'm expecting it will shoot great with a good & correctly gassed barrel.

 

[Lowlight]

Had an LMT 308 in class this weekend with a 6.5CM Barrel, the shooter was single loading it, and the gun was incredibly accurate,

This as the second group of the first morning,

100 yards, 5 rounds ... establishing a zero for the class. The black Shoot N C dot is 3/4 of an inch for comparison

All weekend we talked about the blazing accuracy of the LMT, it was staggering how well he was driving this rifle, hitting targets out to distance every bit as good as the bolt guns on the line. Impressive doesn't describe it.

 

[itieknots7]

Had an LMT 308 in class this weekend with a 6.5CM Barrel, the shooter was single loading it, and the gun was incredibly accurate,

This as the second group of the first morning,

100 yards, 5 rounds ... establishing a zero for the class. The black Shoot N C dot is 3/4 of an inch for comparison

All weekend we talked about the blazing accuracy of the LMT, it was staggering how well he was driving this rifle, hitting targets out to distance every bit as good as the bolt guns on the line. Impressive doesn't describe it.

Thanks Frank.

I have two 6.5 creedmoor barrels (1/8 twist) coming in Monday. Here's to hoping I can achieve half the accuracy of that barrel.

 

[Seekers]

ETA: I'm going to give it another try and dump some $ on a known quality .260/6.5 & conversion and spend some time withit. If it still doesn't perform, I'm gonna part ways. Which will pain me deeply knowing all the labor I put into it. But, I'm expecting it will shoot great with a good & correctly gassed barrel.

Anxious to see these results!
Been saving to get a LMT MWS but have been on the fence since one of the main reasons was the ability to switch between 308/260
Best of luck to you,
Seekers

 

[GUNNER10]

i think there is a few things going on in regards to accuracy issues in an MWS. first is when people naturally assume their ability to run a bolt gun will mimic their ability to run a gas gun. from a practical standpoint, gas guns can run with bolt guns in regards to putting rounds on man sized targets, but in terms of sheer accuracy bolts are just more accurate. there have been far too many 5 shot group challenges that show great gas guns hover around 3/4 MOA where decent bolts run 1/2 MOA for me to believe gas guns have gotten there yet.

second, one needs to look at the chamber and loads they are shooting, i measured my two MWS CL barrels and they come out to an OAL of 2.87, where kac mags are 2.82 and PMags are i think like 2.81, so often times to run mag length your going to be jumping some .050 to .060 till the lands. add in the large chamber with a CL barrel and your naturally going to see some larger groups, SS wil help a little but i am going to bet it’s going to be chambered with the same reamer which is great for reliability but not so much accuracy. Then throw in things like LMT two stage vs an aftermarket Gieslle and all those little thing start to add up. it’s just the design philosophy behind the MWS, its basically designed to be a workhorse DMR with hell and back reliability, and for that it does incredibly well.

Drop a quality barrel like a krieger cut specifically for mag length rounds and you will start to see better groupings.

 

[Thebelly]

second, one needs to look at the chamber and loads they are shooting......

Drop a quality barrel like a krieger cut specifically for mag length rounds and you will start to see better groupings.

I don't measure OAL, but rather base-to-ogive. This allows me to load the bullet off the lands the way my rifle shoots the best. With my .260 barrels, this means using a tangent-style bullet. With the factory chamber, I can load my bullets to .005" from the lands and still have an OAL of 2.804". That solves the 'problem,' and it took me quite a bit of trial and error to get that figured out.

 

[Skeld1]

it’s just the design philosophy behind the MWS, its basically designed to be a workhorse DMR with hell and back reliability, and for that it does incredibly well.

.

This. It's made to shoot decently and be reliable...can't get blood from a turnip.

 

[Dirtyboy333]

Lowlight: thanks for the pic as that inspires some much needed confidence. Do you happen to know if it was a factory LMT barrel or a conversion? If it's a factory then it looks like he figured out how to make it shoot by loading long. I don't like the fact that it was single loaded but I guess that's just how these barrels are cut.

I have high hopes that a convesion barrel will make me fall in love with my MWS all over again.

 

[GUNNER10]

I don't measure OAL, but rather base-to-ogive. This allows me to load the bullet off the lands the way my rifle shoots the best. With my .260 barrels, this means using a tangent-style bullet. With the factory chamber, I can load my bullets to .005" from the lands and still have an OAL of 2.804". That solves the 'problem,' and it took me quite a bit of trial and error to get that figured out.

thats kind of where i am with my 178 amax'x, by chance do you have any suggestions for 30 cal bullets, need to do a little research myself,

 

[Thebelly]

I have always used the 175 SMK as a .30 cal bullet. I have minimal experience with other bullets.

I no longer load precision stuff for my .308 barrel, as its a 16" CL. I just use the 147gr fmj in non-matching brass. I would use it as a 2 MOA blaster/giggle-maker.

 

[Thebelly]

thats kind of where i am with my 178 amax'x, by chance do you have any suggestions for 30 cal bullets, need to do a little research myself,

For me, the starting point is the base-to-ogive measurement. Once that is figured out you can then find a bullet that allows you to maximize the effects of OAL, bullet jump, twist vs. proj. weight, etc.

Then it's off to the races to find the right bullet, then buy a lot of them once you get it right.

It's hard to go through the paces and stay the course. Locally to me, there are a lot of folks who shoot 6.5mm bullets, so I can trade 25 bullets here and there to find what works best for my gun.

Each barrel is cut differently, so each barrel will have its own magic formula.

 

[Thebelly]

I'm interested to see what measurements others are getting from their barrels, particularly in the base-to-ogive measurement. This can help determine how close each barrel is to another.