Aside from the weight differences, are there any other pros and cons.. Accuracy, etc that you guys are finding btw the two models?
I ask bc I have a new MWS and debating whether I should swap/ sell it for a slick model.. Thanks experts!
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Aside from the weight differences, are there any other pros and cons.. Accuracy, etc that you guys are finding btw the two models?
I ask bc I have a new MWS and debating whether I should swap/ sell it for a slick model.. Thanks experts!
Anyone seen with the factory trigger the hammer pin work out while shooting? I had that happen to me today. Tried my colt pins from my other rifle and had the same result. Worries me the hammer pin moves easily when the hammer is cocked
+1 I called LMT and they said if there is enough interest they'll make an FDE model. Call them!
Rifle weight not being a consideration, if one were to place rail sections on the slick version, is it essentially the same circumference as the standard version?
As an example, take either version of the rifle, adding rail sections where needed on the slick, and then have something like Larue index clips or rail ladders, along with an AFG. Same overall mass as it pertains to the grip on either rifle?
As an example, take either version of the rifle, adding rail sections where needed on the slick, and then have something like Larue index clips or rail ladders, along with an AFG. Same overall mass as it pertains to the grip on either rifle?
FYI - Just listed my MWS in the for sale section. It's in excellent condition and crazy accurate. Selling for a GAP-10 I'm buying from another member.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...new-lmt-mws-ss-w-geissele-surefire-brake.html
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...new-lmt-mws-ss-w-geissele-surefire-brake.html
Hey guys.
Need a favor. Can someone check the I.D. of the bolt on their rifle and let me know what it measures? Mine is .4775",,, with calipers.
I am still having trouble with reloads. Actually,, once the brass is shot from my rifle,, the primer pockets are oversize to the point a primer will not stay in. New Lapua brass, 40gr of Benchmark and 165gr Sierra. Not hot at all. I am just searching for answers.
Thanks all. You guys rock.
MO Boy
Need a favor. Can someone check the I.D. of the bolt on their rifle and let me know what it measures? Mine is .4775",,, with calipers.
I am still having trouble with reloads. Actually,, once the brass is shot from my rifle,, the primer pockets are oversize to the point a primer will not stay in. New Lapua brass, 40gr of Benchmark and 165gr Sierra. Not hot at all. I am just searching for answers.
Thanks all. You guys rock.
MO Boy
Just using my cheap reloading calipers I'm getting 0.475. I can't get any better resolution out of them. If I think of it I will bring home a micrometer and see if I can get a closer reading for you.
And that's what I did. Have a ssa-e inbound.
Yep. I took it as a sign to get a Geisselle.
LMT MWS stock options
Ive looked & looked. Seems like most of you guys with the MWS platform are running either a SOPMOD or a PRS. Also seems like appropriately, you are mostly running high end high power optics with large objectives. I have a similar setup to you all but have run into a equipment struggle that I think has been touched on but not dug into. LMT MWS, 16" CL barrel. LaRue OSR, Leupold Mark 4 4.5x14x50 TMR. This gun is being developed for mid to long range Tactical shooting competitions. When I mounted my optic the first thing I noticed is that with my SOPMOD I could not get a good cheek weld. My head sat too low. No problem right? I ordered a LaRue RISR on a MagPul CSR. I love the product, its quality & is as advertised but..... sits too high. I am a can not leave well enough alone type of guy so I shaved it down as far as I though I could without compromising the structural integrity of the RISR. Still too high. Struggled for months trying to convince myself that I could adjust but it just was not comfortable. Not comfortable = not as accurate as I could be. Next I tried the Battleline SAPR. I figured that it was adjustable & that I could just move it up or down to my liking. Not so much,,, The SAPR at its lowest point is nearly 1/2" rise, same as my shaved down RISR. That leaves me with a MagPul PRS or a LMT DMR to choose from. Well, the MagPul is out just because I do NOT want to change any of the internal parts of this gun. It is trust your life reliable right now, probably over gassed but, works with any ammo at any time. You never know when you will be stripping ammo off links in a hole somewhere to keep your gun running... That leaves the DMR. I am a poor man, much poorer since trying to get into long range. I have not handled one, I think I like it, but the cheek peice looks a little short & I just cant bring myself to spend more money to experiment. Ill eventually run into another LMT guy who will let me try his out, ( the beauty of the DMR ) So Im back to my origional SOPMOD with 2 layers of knee pad foam taped to the stock. It has about 3/8" rise and I can fall asleep, wake up open my eyes & be looking right down the tube of my Leupy. Ive got pictures of all of this. At leas the best I can, with the time allotted, witch is not much. Similar problems? What was your solution? Wrong thread?
Ive looked & looked. Seems like most of you guys with the MWS platform are running either a SOPMOD or a PRS. Also seems like appropriately, you are mostly running high end high power optics with large objectives. I have a similar setup to you all but have run into a equipment struggle that I think has been touched on but not dug into. LMT MWS, 16" CL barrel. LaRue OSR, Leupold Mark 4 4.5x14x50 TMR. This gun is being developed for mid to long range Tactical shooting competitions. When I mounted my optic the first thing I noticed is that with my SOPMOD I could not get a good cheek weld. My head sat too low. No problem right? I ordered a LaRue RISR on a MagPul CSR. I love the product, its quality & is as advertised but..... sits too high. I am a can not leave well enough alone type of guy so I shaved it down as far as I though I could without compromising the structural integrity of the RISR. Still too high. Struggled for months trying to convince myself that I could adjust but it just was not comfortable. Not comfortable = not as accurate as I could be. Next I tried the Battleline SAPR. I figured that it was adjustable & that I could just move it up or down to my liking. Not so much,,, The SAPR at its lowest point is nearly 1/2" rise, same as my shaved down RISR. That leaves me with a MagPul PRS or a LMT DMR to choose from. Well, the MagPul is out just because I do NOT want to change any of the internal parts of this gun. It is trust your life reliable right now, probably over gassed but, works with any ammo at any time. You never know when you will be stripping ammo off links in a hole somewhere to keep your gun running... That leaves the DMR. I am a poor man, much poorer since trying to get into long range. I have not handled one, I think I like it, but the cheek peice looks a little short & I just cant bring myself to spend more money to experiment. Ill eventually run into another LMT guy who will let me try his out, ( the beauty of the DMR ) So Im back to my origional SOPMOD with 2 layers of knee pad foam taped to the stock. It has about 3/8" rise and I can fall asleep, wake up open my eyes & be looking right down the tube of my Leupy. Ive got pictures of all of this. At leas the best I can, with the time allotted, witch is not much. Similar problems? What was your solution? Wrong thread?
Same here Ned you are not alone. Basically went through the same thing with Larue Riser. I didn't want to buy another Larue mount to make a cheaper part work. Just encase anyone wants to know the Larue 158 with 10 moa is to low for the Riser this is and was confirmed by Larue. To make it work I would need the OBR mount with 0 moa or 20 moa either would work. So I went out and bought a Magpul riser dremeled it back 1 inch works fine. I can't charge the rifle till the 2nd or 3rd position but that doesn't bother me. I was fortunate guy at the store let me try all 3 magpul sizes until I found the right one. Now on to the CTR stock I don't think it absorbs recoil well at all. I think the sopmod and voltor Emod do a better job with Emod being the top. The problem with EMod no riser options. Yes I already added the larger recoil pad to the CTR. Ultimately waiting on the FDE LMT/PRS stock but I am not happy about another 300 bucks.
The weather here today was really nice for July. 85-90 degrees though muggy, so I decided to take the opportunity to take my MWS out for the first time in way too long. Mine wears an 18" S/S .308 barrel and a Super Sniper fixed 12x scope. I took along some 175gr FGMM, 168gr Black Hills, and 168gr AMAX Hornady Match to see what I could get to shoot best.
I'm predominately a pistol shooter and have been devoting my range time almost entirely to handguns for months. This was the first time I had taken the .308 out in just short of a year, so I wasn't expecting much.
Since the last time, I've added one of Slash's Buffers. All ran well and the recoil impulse seemed smoother that I recalled. Maybe it was the buffer, maybe it was my imagination since it's been so long.
Unfortunately, I had to shoot from the concrete bench today instead of my preferred prone. I always tend to get more bipod bounce from the bench. First five round group out of the gate was the 175gr FGMM at 100yds. It measured just under 1.3MOA. While certainly nothing too special, I was pretty pleased after not having shot the big gas gun in so long. Another 5 shot 175gr FGMM group followed, as well as one group each from the 168gr Black Hills, and 168gr AMAX. These opened up a fair amount do to my mistakes.
Then I decided to push the target on out to 200yds (sadly the range max) and give it a whirl. My first five shot group at 200 was the FGMM and it was pretty sad. But they began to tighten up and I finished by hitting my grove. My final 5 round group was another 175gr FGMM with the first four rounds measuring just under .7MOA with the fifth round a flyer opening the group up to over 1MOA. The fifth round was totally me and not reflective of the rifle's performance.
I was super stoked to finish my range session with this as the .7MOA is a personal best for me on this rifle. (It's the little things that make me happy.)
I've got some M118LR and Corbon Match on the way to try next outing.
I'm predominately a pistol shooter and have been devoting my range time almost entirely to handguns for months. This was the first time I had taken the .308 out in just short of a year, so I wasn't expecting much.
Since the last time, I've added one of Slash's Buffers. All ran well and the recoil impulse seemed smoother that I recalled. Maybe it was the buffer, maybe it was my imagination since it's been so long.
Unfortunately, I had to shoot from the concrete bench today instead of my preferred prone. I always tend to get more bipod bounce from the bench. First five round group out of the gate was the 175gr FGMM at 100yds. It measured just under 1.3MOA. While certainly nothing too special, I was pretty pleased after not having shot the big gas gun in so long. Another 5 shot 175gr FGMM group followed, as well as one group each from the 168gr Black Hills, and 168gr AMAX. These opened up a fair amount do to my mistakes.
Then I decided to push the target on out to 200yds (sadly the range max) and give it a whirl. My first five shot group at 200 was the FGMM and it was pretty sad. But they began to tighten up and I finished by hitting my grove. My final 5 round group was another 175gr FGMM with the first four rounds measuring just under .7MOA with the fifth round a flyer opening the group up to over 1MOA. The fifth round was totally me and not reflective of the rifle's performance.
I was super stoked to finish my range session with this as the .7MOA is a personal best for me on this rifle. (It's the little things that make me happy.)
I've got some M118LR and Corbon Match on the way to try next outing.
I'm contemplating selling my ECC and coming on over to the dark side with one of the new slick sides (16 CL and then adding a 260 barrel later on).
Couple quick questions for users of the MWS
What is the POI repeatability between barrel changes (I.e can I go to the range and switch between calibers and still be within 1 MOA)?
Any buffer recommendations for running suppressed (Surefire SOCOM762-RC) ?
Couple quick questions for users of the MWS
What is the POI repeatability between barrel changes (I.e can I go to the range and switch between calibers and still be within 1 MOA)?
Any buffer recommendations for running suppressed (Surefire SOCOM762-RC) ?
dude, your over thinking it, just dump what ever mount you have your optic in and get the right size rings any rings from 1.2 to 1.3 will do, 1.4 can work but its a feels a hair high.
not sure what exactly my POI is between barrel swaps but it has allways been pretty much within the natural accuracy of the gun. ive dropped in the barrel in and made first round shots on a 24x24 inch target at 800 yars fwiw
With mine, (16" SS .308) my POI shift is less than .5 moa. I don't have any experience switching calibers. I am running a buffer and spring from heavybuffers in a prs stock and have no issues suppressed (surefire 762K) or unsuppressed.
Mehh, I cant do that. This is a dual purpose rifle & I like the option of swapping over to a close quarters optic. To tell you the truth I like the foam riser more & more. Im pretty stuck on my LaRue mounts.
I looked all over for an ECC for sale when I got my MWS Slick side back in May. Still have not shot it, wishing I would have waited...
I received a new barrel today. It's a 20" .260 Rem, 1/9 SS. I'll load up some ammo and take it out this weekend to see how it does compared to the old one. I'll get some measurements before I head out, though, because I'm a nerd like that.
My MWS 6.5 Creedmoor has been unpredictable as well. I have been considering selling it and just getting a 308 barrel because they guarantee better accuracy in the 308 barrels. I am interested to see if your new 260 barrel does. Maybe I need to send mine back too.......
The folks at LMT that I spoke with were very easy to work with. Make sure you have hard data points to speak with them about. Be sure you're ready to get pretty nerdy with them and explain in extreme detail about every thing that happened.
I created a log book and used both NOAA Weather data and pictures/video to help describe my point. As I've originally stated, it's all about removing variables.
I have a copy of the "The book of AR-15" borrowed from a friend. They did a unscientific test of a bunch of LMT barrels. The 260 & 6.5 creedmoor neither shot great out of system. Directly from there testing at 100 yards 6.5creedmoor 1:8 twist avg group 1.96 inches/best group 1.8inches. 260 1:9 twist testing avg group 1.5 inches/best group 1.47inches. The article sited some information that I don't understand about barrels shooting bullets with secant ogives were harder to get accuracy out of and all of the 6.5 ammo they shot had secant ogives. The 260 was shot with ammo that used tangent ogives and was easier to be accurate with. I really just wanted to pass along the info I hope this helps your search for an accurate load. You might wanna call LMT directly and ask them for any advice as I believe this article got a couple of tips from them. I am very interested in your results as well. Mostly because I haven't seen a lot of information on those barrels or how they shoot.
Ok, so I'll go look and try a few different bullets out. I've so far tried the 123 Scenar, 139 Scenar, and 142 SMK.
ETA: a buddy gave me 35x 120gr AMAX. They have a profile that allows for loading closer to the lands. As my initial testing showed that loading with less jump yielded significantly better results, this may be good news. THANKS AGAIN FOR THE SECANT/TANGENT TIP.
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What dies are yall using to size your brass? I been using the dillon size/trim die and ran across to spent cases in the chamber on my last range visit. Granted I don't clean my gun often and I shoot suppressed so that can't help, but I am wondering if going to a small base sizing die would help get the spent cases ejected, or is that mainly going to help feed the rifle?
I sized using the Dillon trim die.
I havent had a chance to use reloads in my .308 yet but for .223 and 30-06 if you set the die up lik Dillon states you get a max sized case. I set my die using the Hornady Headspace gauge and I backe dmy die off from the Dillon setting to get a .003-.005 set back.
I dont think you will get much smaller with asmall base die nor do think it is necessary. Ill find out for sure when I finally start making .308 for my MWS.
Im sorry, but if thats the best they can do at 100 with the 6.5 and 260 then they have no clue what they are doing.
I seemed to fix the brass sticking issue. Amazing what cleaning your rifle actually does.
I did have another issue. The rifle slammed fire on 2 occasions. Once with reloads and once with factory ammo. I noticed that rounds chambered have a light dent on the primer. Anyone experience this or have any solutions?
Also does anyone hAve issues closing the bolt on a mag and the bolt not fully closing. My rifle is bolt gun accurate, and I guess the tolerances leave little margin for error?
I did have another issue. The rifle slammed fire on 2 occasions. Once with reloads and once with factory ammo. I noticed that rounds chambered have a light dent on the primer. Anyone experience this or have any solutions?
Also does anyone hAve issues closing the bolt on a mag and the bolt not fully closing. My rifle is bolt gun accurate, and I guess the tolerances leave little margin for error?
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If you notice when you take apart the LMT bcg. There is no spring on the firing pin. This means when bolt goes into battery the fire pin will slightly touch the primer on the round. It shouldn't be enough to set the round off. LMT must have engineered their asses off to figure how to do this. Especially when manufacturing large lots of rifles. The KAC and noveske 308 rifles have a spring. Light primer dents are normal however me knowing this i don't load any live rounds at home to check function. I have had a few rounds not load into battery usually the gun is dirty or under oiled.
thanks for the reply. I cleaned my BCG this evening and there was quite a bit of carbon build on in it. This was the first time i did a detailed strip of my BCG. Since this issue just started popping up I am thinking its because I failed to maintain my rifle properly. Hopefully will be able to get out to the range and find out how she runs clean. The rifle ran fine the first 400+ rounds from the factory. So I imagine its user error.
There is no firing pin spring on any issue semi auto rifle since the M1 Garand. Free floating firing pin has been the norm. My 86-91 M16A2 never had a firing pin spring, I assume the new guns dont either.
You should keep the firing pin track somewhat maintained and when reloading make sure primers are seated properly. I think my Garand will chamber/recoil harder than my LMT and Ive had no issues with slam fire using relatively soft Winchester primers reloading for it. So called "Mil Spec" primers may give you some insurance but I dont find them absolutely necessary.
I clean my MWS more than my 5.56 LMT. When new the MWS had some chambering issues but that has worked itself out. The smaller LMT just went 900 or so rounds with only oiling. I felt so bad looking at the mud inside the chamber I was shamed into cleaning it but I think it would have continued to run another 900 rounds.
Let me clarify the three 308 ar platform rifles preceding the LMT had firing pin springs to prevent primer dimpling( I don't know if this the correct term)the dpms,Kac,and Noveske. I am unsure of the armalite offering. The LMT was the first one I saw without this feature on the firing pin. I agree with about the other rifles you mentioned.
I've never seen a DPMS or SR-25 pattern gun with the firing pin spring. As far as I know only the Armalite AR-10 and the variants have it (noveske, Larue).
Can anyone guesstimate the round count based on this wear?
There is one locally. Guy claims it only has 20 rounds through it.
Thank you.
There is one locally. Guy claims it only has 20 rounds through it.
Thank you.
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I think made the mistake of cleaning my 16" CL .308 barrel too well. The rifle has always been right around MOA with 168 FGMM and 168SMK/Varget. This is over about 600 rounds. At 200 rounds I ran a snake down it a few times and kept on trucking. Couple weeks ago the groups opened up so I cleaned the barrel well. Take it out and its shooting 2 to 3 MOA. Completely random groups over about forty rounds. Start checking everything, scope, mount all good. So I pull the barrel, check everything visually, run some patches down the barrel to be sure there is nothing there to cause any problem and reinstall with the LMT provided wrench. Go shoot with 168 FGMM and its still printing like a shotgun.
I read about the shitty LMT torque wrenches so I take the rife to a buddies shop, pull the barrel, seat it with the rifle vertical and torque it to 140 inch pounds with a Snap On torque wrench. I take it out and run twenty rounds of 150gr ball through it to put some copper in the bore. Let the rifle cool then shoot two five round groups with 168 FGMM and they are just under 3 MOA. I have a friend who knows what he's doing shoot a couple groups just to remove one more variable and it does the same exact thing. I'm running an ERS scope in ADM mount so I take that off and put it on my buddies new Rainier .308 to see if that could be the problem. We both shoot solid MOA groups with that rifle and my scope.
At this point I'm ready to throw this thing in a lake. I take it home let it sit for a few days and decided if its going to shoot like a battle rifle then so be it I'll just make it one. I pull the PRS stock, ERS optic and Geissele National Match trigger out of it and put the factory stock set up, an SSA-E and a Vortex 1-6 on it. Then I let it sit in the safe as I was tired of dicking with it.
I finally decide to call LMT and see if they have any guidance. I spend ten minutes going through the whole spiel and the guy says "It must be something with the barrel then" I ask if I send it in will they look at it and fix it if they find something. He tells me he will authorize a return but since I used reloaded ammunition in the gun it voided the warranty and if they find any problems with the barrel I will have to pay for it. To say I was stunned to hear that would be an understatement. I specifically only shot FGMM after the problems started to remove the variable of handloads and explained that to him but it did no good. I told him I ran handloads through it so my warranty is void. I just said "Thanks" and hung up. Pissed would be an understatement.
So a few days ago I take the rifle out to zero the 1-6 at 100. I fire four rounds to get it where I want it then fire a four round group just because I am a masochist and thats what was left in the mag. I just see that its on target through the scope so I put it away not really looking at the group too close mainly because at 6 power I cant tell a whole lot other than there are holes where I want them. End of the session I walk down and it has three rounds in about 3/4" with one low opening it up to about a 1.5 MOA group with a 6 power optic and not really giving too much of a shit behind the trigger.
So now I'm hoping that I just needed to run a lot more rounds down the barrel than I would of imagined to get it shooting again. I had forty four rounds down the bore before that four round group. It was the smallest I have seen since I cleaned the damn thing originally. I was done for the day or I would of shot more to see what was going on. I plan to take it back out and shoot more with the 1-6 and then put the ERS back on it to try that.
The whole thing has been a giant pain in my ass. I was pretty happy with the rifle before this ordeal. I'm hoping it all comes down to having put a bunch of copper in that barrel before it comes back. We'll see.
Pic of a friend on the rifle set up with PRS and ERS:
I read about the shitty LMT torque wrenches so I take the rife to a buddies shop, pull the barrel, seat it with the rifle vertical and torque it to 140 inch pounds with a Snap On torque wrench. I take it out and run twenty rounds of 150gr ball through it to put some copper in the bore. Let the rifle cool then shoot two five round groups with 168 FGMM and they are just under 3 MOA. I have a friend who knows what he's doing shoot a couple groups just to remove one more variable and it does the same exact thing. I'm running an ERS scope in ADM mount so I take that off and put it on my buddies new Rainier .308 to see if that could be the problem. We both shoot solid MOA groups with that rifle and my scope.
At this point I'm ready to throw this thing in a lake. I take it home let it sit for a few days and decided if its going to shoot like a battle rifle then so be it I'll just make it one. I pull the PRS stock, ERS optic and Geissele National Match trigger out of it and put the factory stock set up, an SSA-E and a Vortex 1-6 on it. Then I let it sit in the safe as I was tired of dicking with it.
I finally decide to call LMT and see if they have any guidance. I spend ten minutes going through the whole spiel and the guy says "It must be something with the barrel then" I ask if I send it in will they look at it and fix it if they find something. He tells me he will authorize a return but since I used reloaded ammunition in the gun it voided the warranty and if they find any problems with the barrel I will have to pay for it. To say I was stunned to hear that would be an understatement. I specifically only shot FGMM after the problems started to remove the variable of handloads and explained that to him but it did no good. I told him I ran handloads through it so my warranty is void. I just said "Thanks" and hung up. Pissed would be an understatement.
So a few days ago I take the rifle out to zero the 1-6 at 100. I fire four rounds to get it where I want it then fire a four round group just because I am a masochist and thats what was left in the mag. I just see that its on target through the scope so I put it away not really looking at the group too close mainly because at 6 power I cant tell a whole lot other than there are holes where I want them. End of the session I walk down and it has three rounds in about 3/4" with one low opening it up to about a 1.5 MOA group with a 6 power optic and not really giving too much of a shit behind the trigger.
So now I'm hoping that I just needed to run a lot more rounds down the barrel than I would of imagined to get it shooting again. I had forty four rounds down the bore before that four round group. It was the smallest I have seen since I cleaned the damn thing originally. I was done for the day or I would of shot more to see what was going on. I plan to take it back out and shoot more with the 1-6 and then put the ERS back on it to try that.
The whole thing has been a giant pain in my ass. I was pretty happy with the rifle before this ordeal. I'm hoping it all comes down to having put a bunch of copper in that barrel before it comes back. We'll see.
Pic of a friend on the rifle set up with PRS and ERS:
