LMT feed issues

[DanUSMC]

I have an LMT mars h 308, 16". The groups aren't so good. Having occasional ftf.

If load a round and eject it, bullet tip looks like this. Copper buildup where barrel ramp over hangs reciever ramp. On the phone LMT told me this happens during extraction/ejection. I dont see how. I want them to fix my barrel. Or ill take a chainsaw file to it. Doesn't matter to me. Any suggestions? Or is this just to be expected with AR10s...

 

[Jsp556]

That looks like shit. Did you email them that pic?

If you’re on FB, hit up Joe Hajney

 

[.505gibbs]

What mags are you using? From the picture of the cartridge it looks like they are oriented nose down in the mag.

 

[DanUSMC]

I'm using the 20 round 'LR' p-mags. I have 6, loaded them all and none seem to be pointing down really bad, but maybe I should find another mag to try out. Not a bad idea.

 

[DanUSMC]

In this case yes. Ammo in picture is Sako 175gr.

 

[DanUSMC]

H3 buffer and carbine length? Spring. Idk what length it is, might be longer but it's stock from the factory. I've tried some winchester I had laying around, and hand loads. Same story for both. It's a bummer on a rifle this expensive.

 

[bigjake83]

You need to blend your Feed Ramps, you can see clear as day that you're shaving the copper jackets during chambering.

 

[mtrmn]

You need to blend your Feed Ramps, you can see clear as day that you're shaving the copper jackets during chambering.

THIS^^^^^^^

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

You can blend yourself but that should have never left the factory like that. LMT is slow as dogshit and really doesnt give a fuck about commercial customers so your better off doing yourself. I would ask for a partial refund as well.

 

[DanUSMC]

Yea they haven't responded in a few days so it doesn't seem like they care too much. The more I think about it... I dropped the coin on this rifle because I wanted an accurate and reliable AR10 and wanted to avoid issues. So if I gotta send it back fine. But this is turning out to be a $3400 mistake. Shoulda bought another scope instead.

 

[DanUSMC]

For any prospective LMT buyers reading this, LMT got back to me today, they were busy due to a holiday sale which is understandable. They're gonna have me ship the upper and barrel back for inspection.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

This is one of those places where a dremel is your friend. Hand filing those angles and curves would really suck. Once you get it blended, get some flitz and polishing cloth and just smooth it all out.

 

[b willis]

Mine did the same thing I suspected it was the bolt catch no one believed me until it seared off check it for too much play the detents and bolt catch screw can bend the upper hits the lowers when separating the upper and lower luckily i had a spare they give out and cause feeding issues the feed ramps will wear mine looked just like that I did

 

[DanUSMC]

Mine did the same thing I suspected it was the bolt catch no one believed me until it seared off check it for too much play the detents and bolt catch screw can bend the upper hits the lowers when separating the upper and lower luckily i had a spare they give out and cause feeding issues the feed ramps will wear mine looked just like that I did View attachment 8248938

This ill check. I already sent the upper back about 3 weeks ago. No communication from them. Called and was told might be a month before they get around to it. Over 3k for a rifle that doesn't work, and a couple months to get it fixed.. Should have just bought 3 PSA ar10s...

 

[DanUSMC]

For any prospective LMT buyers reading this, LMT got back to me today, they were busy due to a holiday sale which is understandable. They're gonna have me ship the upper and barrel back for inspection.

For anyone reading I rescind this comment. Wait for the KAC or get something else

 

[redneckbmxer24]

@RUTGERS95 why are you never in these threads preaching LMT excellence?

 

[db2000]

This is impossible because LMT is the go-to SHTF gun that never fails per all these folks on here apparently.

 

[GhostFace]

Everyone, I mean everyone produces lemons. KAC, LMT, NF, ZCO, TT etc.....it's how they handle these situations is what matters.

When these companies have military contracts and with us looking at fighting a war or two constantly we will take a back seat. While frustrating as it is the warriors of this country should take priority over us.

Be patient (coming from an impatient man), forget about the rifle and shoot one of your others until your LMT comes back. Once you get it back working from them and you go to the range with it I'd bet you'll have a smile on your face.....

 

[b willis]

Lmts are good guns and I would bet my life on mine I have 2 and i have had failures and issues if you run any gun enough something will give I dont know how many times I have called Lmt for help and advice and they have alot of knowledge and they are honest if they dont know whats wrong or what the solution is they’ll look for it I keep spare parts and its usually down for a few minutes run the gun hard so it breaks in run it dirty to see what it can and cant do and how long it can do it and heres some spare parts i recommend just my 2 cents

 

[TheOE800]

This ill check. I already sent the upper back about 3 weeks ago. No communication from them. Called and was told might be a month before they get around to it. Over 3k for a rifle that doesn't work, and a couple months to get it fixed.. Should have just bought 3 PSA ar10s...

They suck. 90 +/-10 days is the standard troubleshooting turnaround for their RGA process.

 

[Jsp556]

I’ve been shooting LMT MRPs, large and small frame, for about 12 years now. The only negative I’ve experienced were tight mag wells on the large frames. I’ve only had 1 large frame that will drop Pmags freely. Lancers, Larue’s, and KAC mags fall out. The only stoppage I’ve had was a blown primer in the trigger group. The chrome lined 308 barrels I’ve had all shot GMM and Hornady Match MOA or under after about 200 rounds. The cut rifled 308 barrel I have shoots as good as the Krieger and Proof barrels I have. Solid guns that we’ve shot the shit out of for years.

It sucks they let yours out of the factory like that. It was a simple problem to troubleshoot and fix at home. I understand sending it back and you did. Now you have to wait.

At least it isn’t a Larue or BCM gun. They would have told you that you are the problem.

 

[B y r o n]

There is definitely a problem with the barrel extension/upper receiver fit. This is what it should look like and anything different is simply wrong.

 

[LRRPF52]

Once I have determined that a barrel is worthy of being mated to an upper receiver, I begin test-fitting for extended feed ramp alignment.

A lot of them used to hang over the ramps in the upper and create the situation you’re seeing unless corrected before final assembly.

Since I de-egde, blend, and polish feed ramps as a norm, I would just blend the extension feed ramps with the upper so that hollow point meplats would never do this.

Some of them take many test-fits back and forth until both surfaces are matched, and can be a PITA.

I would expect this from the imported parts passed-off as US mfg companies, but not LMT. Something like that really should be part of their inspection process, and probably is, but was overlooked on that one.

If you look at your right feed ramp, the ledge of the upper is wider than the barrel extension right side as well. That’s something that I personally blend as well.

 

[Happiness Is A Warm Gun]

I am a big LMT fan going back to Obama's first term, but I keep seeing more and more crazy posts about lmt quality control issues on the various gun forums and reddit.

What the hell is going on with lmt? I think I have read about more functional issues with lmt rifles in the last few months than I have in many years prior.

 

[LRRPF52]

It’s not just LMT, but market-wide across all industries. The people who know how to do things are all dead or retired, and for whatever reasons, the skills and work ethic they had were not passed-on to the current generation of lower-skilled workers in assembly, supervision, QC, TQM, and management. Millennials are in management and even senior management now in some companies.

With my own generation (Gen X), I’ve seen a lot of business owners immediately dip into profits and go on vacation way before they should even think about it, then when the cat is away, the mice will play because solid standards and procedures were not enforced.

The workforce is also less-educated, about 100x more distracted, unable to focus or grasp basic concepts, more prone to substance abuse, psychotropic prescription medications, hormonal abnormalities from environmental factors, sleep disorders, poor nutrition driven by big food/big retail, lateness, absenteeism, and flakiness.

If you are able to buck these trends somehow in today’s workforce and establish a culture of high standards based on professional conduct, attention-to-detail, and great managers, you will be in extreme high demand.

The schools and broken families are not cranking out these kinds of people though, and have not done so for generations. Schools actually contribute to the opposite all of the key character and professional attributes that are needed in the manufacturing industry.

Then look at manufacturing wages in the firearms sector. Starting at $15/hr, and what do you expect?

$2400 gross monthly
$148.80 SSI theft
$34.80 Medicare theft
Too poor to be charged Federal Income theft
Net after Federal government theft of labor dues:

$2216.40

3 Bedroom Rent in Eldridge Iowa: $784/month
Gas to commute: $150-$200/month
Utilities: US Avg $429.33/month (Eldridge Iowa is 100.5 index compared to US, with 100 being the National index.)

$803.07

Car payment: Avg US used car payment was $488 in 2021. Used car average transaction prices have increased to over $31,000 in Sep 2022. If an entry-level manufacturing employee finds a beater at the local used car Suckers game lot, in Iowa with their State sales tax and licensing, title, and other fees, you’re looking at $357/mo payment if you put down $2000 and trade-in a rust bucket for $500 valuation.

$803.07 - $357 =

$446.07

Groceries: 1 man on thrifty budget $227
Phone bill: $167.11

$51.96

Now imagine a young manager trying to enforce proper parts fitment tolerances with guys like this working under him.

 

[GhostFace]

Amen brother! Amen....

 

[DanUSMC]

It’s not just LMT, but market-wide across all industries. The people who know how to do things are all dead or retired, and for whatever reasons, the skills and work ethic they had were not passed-on to the current generation of lower-skilled workers in assembly, supervision, QC, TQM, and management. Millennials are in management and even senior management now in some companies.

With my own generation (Gen X), I’ve seen a lot of business owners immediately dip into profits and go on vacation way before they should even think about it, then when the cat is away, the mice will play because solid standards and procedures were not enforced.

The workforce is also less-educated, about 100x more distracted, unable to focus or grasp basic concepts, more prone to substance abuse, psychotropic prescription medications, hormonal abnormalities from environmental factors, sleep disorders, poor nutrition driven by big food/big retail, lateness, absenteeism, and flakiness.

If you are able to buck these trends somehow in today’s workforce and establish a culture of high standards based on professional conduct, attention-to-detail, and great managers, you will be in extreme high demand.

The schools and broken families are not cranking out these kinds of people though, and have not done so for generations. Schools actually contribute to the opposite all of the key character and professional attributes that are needed in the manufacturing industry.

Then look at manufacturing wages in the firearms sector. Starting at $15/hr, and what do you expect?

$2400 gross monthly
$148.80 SSI theft
$34.80 Medicare theft
Too poor to be charged Federal Income theft
Net after Federal government theft of labor dues:

$2216.40

3 Bedroom Rent in Eldridge Iowa: $784/month
Gas to commute: $150-$200/month
Utilities: US Avg $429.33/month (Eldridge Iowa is 100.5 index compared to US, with 100 being the National index.)

$803.07

Car payment: Avg US used car payment was $488 in 2021. Used car average transaction prices have increased to over $31,000 in Sep 2022. If an entry-level manufacturing employee finds a beater at the local used car Suckers game lot, in Iowa with their State sales tax and licensing, title, and other fees, you’re looking at $357/mo payment if you put down $2000 and trade-in a rust bucket for $500 valuation.

$803.07 - $357 =

$446.07

Groceries: 1 man on thrifty budget $227
Phone bill: $167.11

$51.96

Now imagine a young manager trying to enforce proper parts fitment tolerances with guys like this working under him.

You're not lying. I had some GI bill left after college so I went to trade school for machining. Worked as a setup machinist for a couple of years. I love machining, I especially enjoy making one-off high precision parts. In the sticks of northeast Tennessee good luck making any money though. I moved and went into masonry sales, which I hate, because it pays better. $20 an hour doesn't cut it, even if I love hoggin some metal.

 

[Bigfatcock]

It’s not just LMT, but market-wide across all industries. The people who know how to do things are all dead or retired, and for whatever reasons, the skills and work ethic they had were not passed-on to the current generation of lower-skilled workers in assembly, supervision, QC, TQM, and management. Millennials are in management and even senior management now in some companies.

With my own generation (Gen X), I’ve seen a lot of business owners immediately dip into profits and go on vacation way before they should even think about it, then when the cat is away, the mice will play because solid standards and procedures were not enforced.

The workforce is also less-educated, about 100x more distracted, unable to focus or grasp basic concepts, more prone to substance abuse, psychotropic prescription medications, hormonal abnormalities from environmental factors, sleep disorders, poor nutrition driven by big food/big retail, lateness, absenteeism, and flakiness.

If you are able to buck these trends somehow in today’s workforce and establish a culture of high standards based on professional conduct, attention-to-detail, and great managers, you will be in extreme high demand.

The schools and broken families are not cranking out these kinds of people though, and have not done so for generations. Schools actually contribute to the opposite all of the key character and professional attributes that are needed in the manufacturing industry.

Then look at manufacturing wages in the firearms sector. Starting at $15/hr, and what do you expect?

$2400 gross monthly
$148.80 SSI theft
$34.80 Medicare theft
Too poor to be charged Federal Income theft
Net after Federal government theft of labor dues:

$2216.40

3 Bedroom Rent in Eldridge Iowa: $784/month
Gas to commute: $150-$200/month
Utilities: US Avg $429.33/month (Eldridge Iowa is 100.5 index compared to US, with 100 being the National index.)

$803.07

Car payment: Avg US used car payment was $488 in 2021. Used car average transaction prices have increased to over $31,000 in Sep 2022. If an entry-level manufacturing employee finds a beater at the local used car Suckers game lot, in Iowa with their State sales tax and licensing, title, and other fees, you’re looking at $357/mo payment if you put down $2000 and trade-in a rust bucket for $500 valuation.

$803.07 - $357 =

$446.07

Groceries: 1 man on thrifty budget $227
Phone bill: $167.11

$51.96

Now imagine a young manager trying to enforce proper parts fitment tolerances with guys like this working under him.

$15.00 is small money for any type of work other than fast food.

 

[AngryKoala]

$15.00 is small money for any type of work other than fast food.

Add an extra $5 and that's a half and half from a crack head hooker.

 

[UpSideDown]

Sorry about your troubles man, I’m surprised they didn’t catch this during test firing. Maybe I shouldn’t sell my Barrett large frame, this thing is freaking awesome

 

[DanUSMC]

Just an update for any future readers,
LMT has had my upper for a little over a month now. I asked if they would just replace the 16" barrel and put a 20" on it. This is what I wanted anyways, i bought the 16 because thats all that was available at the time.
They agreed to do this which made me feel a lot better about the entire thing. I think theyre gonna put the stainless on there as well. So a good ending overall, it took a little time but they took care of me in the end.

 

[DanUSMC]

This will probably be the last thing I post on this, but I think it's worth it to share so anyone else looking at what I'd call the expensive AR10s will perhaps be able to use my anecdote to help inform their choice.

The barreled upper came back with 20" barrel on it today. Great.

The feed lips still over hang, they're not matched up perfect. Maybe I'll blend them myself. I chambered a few rounds by dropping the bolt on a loaded mag, it doesn't seem to be chewing the meplats up like it did before. Time will tell.

There is still other damage on the bullet, not good for BC If this damage happens during feeding. If the damage is from ejection then no big deal but this is a stretch, I think it happens while feeding. My M1 garand doesn't damage projectiles to this extent at all - and you might expect it to, since it's a also a violent autoloader. But maybe this is what AR10s do. I'm new to Ar10s so I really don't have a baseline to compare to. Different ammo and magazines might help but it's just not making me too happy.
-Last thing that gets me is that the muzzle threads aren't really relieved at the shoulder so if you go to use something like a 419 hellfire adapter you will need shims or crush washer. Crush washers are crap. I have shims - the good ones from precision armament, but the ID on those was also too small to sit all the way down and shoulder up properly. 5 mins with hand drill and sandpaper fixed this but it was annoying and is something to be aware of. My old ASR break is relieved really well so that went right on but needs to be timed, and then you're right back to shims.

As of right now I'm leaning towards selling this rifle. But once I get a scope properly mounted and shoot some maybe I'll change my mind who knows.

LMT hooked me up with the 20" barrel which was cool. 20" barrel for 308 like this feels kinda silly though, 6.5 would make more sense.
This is my experience so far, others are surely different but this is how i see it. Hopefully it'll be of help to someone looking at buying something similar.

 

[ToKeepAndBear]

Shoot it.

 

[DanUSMC]

Shoot it.

First magazine. Made it through 5 rounds. Failure to feed.

 

[B y r o n]

This reminds me of the problem with AR-15's just after uppers were modified with M4 feed ramps. You needed a barrel extension cut for the M4 feed ramps or you would end up with failure to feed when the bullet tip caught the edge of the barrel extension.

Look at pictures of barrel extension cut with M4 type feed ramps. You'll see that the feed ramps are cut or ground well below the face of the barrel extension. Yours look to be just below, maybe, and need to ground back further to blend them with the receiver.

 

[ToKeepAndBear]

First magazine. Made it through 5 rounds. Failure to feed. View attachment 8292907

They are definitely catching on that lip, bummer. Looks like you need to crimp as well! That is some serious setback.

 

[Evolution 9]

No, he needs a new gun. It’s ridiculous that he’s had to deal with this even after LMT had it back.

Either his mags are crap (not likely given what he’s using) or LMT owes him a brand new rifle.

 

[DanUSMC]

This reminds me of the problem with AR-15's just after uppers were modified with M4 feed ramps. You needed a barrel extension cut for the M4 feed ramps or you would end up with failure to feed when the bullet tip caught the edge of the barrel extension.

Look at pictures of barrel extension cut with M4 type feed ramps. You'll see that the feed ramps are cut or ground well below the face of the barrel extension. Yours look to be just below, maybe, and need to ground back further to blend them with the receiver.

View attachment 8292964

Because it's the second barrel doing this, I'm suspicious that the upper is out of tolerance. If that's the case it kinda ruins the quick change barrel option unless I want to blend every barrel I buy to match the upper. I trust this gun about as far as I can throw it, I think a QCd replacement would be fair. Idk

 

[Jsp556]

You’ve had 2 barrels with the same issue, seems like an upper problem. I’d ask for a new upper. It sucks that they’ve soured you to the brand but they did it to themselves.

LMT needs to get their shit together.

 

[ToKeepAndBear]

I have a few MRPs, going back to around 2008ish for the first, and bought another as recent as last week. I have not had any problems other than a DMR stock with rough finishing recently. Mine have just flat out worked. I hope yours gets sorted soon.

 

[TheOE800]

Ahhh, an LMT thread going exactly as I thought. ️

I think a QCd replacement would be fair. Idk

LMT doesn’t QC, as you’re finding out.