Load Development: Where and How to Start?

[Phil3]

There is a lot of info here on the process of reloading and am reasonably familiar with the "how" of constructing a round. What I don't see (and forgive me if I missed it in my search) is the process of "load development".

For instance, where to start with bullet and powder selection? There are many accepted possibilities for my AR15 in 223 Remington. Just pick an accepted load (as shown in manuals) that has a bullet weight suited to my twist rate and try it out..., or is there some more scientific approach? What is an accepted way to evaluate the performance at my 100 yard range? Five 5 shot groups from a rest? Once that performance is known, now what? Change the grains of powder and repeat? Or change the bullet with same powder and try again? Or...?

I want to use a good, consistenc, systemtic approach to determine what my rifle likes. Given the compounding effect of multiple variables (bullets, powders, powder levels, primers, and bullet seating depth), I want to be sure I am using the best path to determine what works and what does not.

Appreciate the guidance.

Phil

 

[wcb6092]

Re: Load Development: Where and How to Start?

If there are competition or bench rest shooters in your area, they will be glad to give you powder and bullet recommendations.Then check a reloading manual for min to max charges. Load up 3 rounds from min to max in 1 grain increments. See which groups best at 100 yards from a rest.Then load 3-5 rounds from the 2 best groups in .2 increments and test these. This way you can see what YOUR rifle shoots best.

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Load Development: Where and How to Start?

Load manuals are chock full of caliber appropriate powders and components already tested, tried, and true....a smart man goes there and finds a place to begin. Experimentation is most of the fun with reloading....unless of course you blindly seek instant gratification.

"Load Development" method is one of the most argued topics here on the 'Hide....if you can't find it then you ain't a lookin'.

But, if you insist on asking me then:

Start Here.............

And then go talk to Dan himself here............

 

[Phil3]

Re: Load Development: Where and How to Start?

I have reviewed the manuals, sites such as www.6mmbr.com, and others. I also searched for "load development" in the titles here without much success. The OCW process is useful.

 

[Clark]

Re: Load Development: Where and How to Start?

Pressure signs in this case I fired in an AR15:
1) Case stretch in front of the web
2) Cratered primer
3) Imprint of extractor hole in breech face
4) Imprint of ejector hole in breech face
5) [Not visible] loose primer pocket makes next primer insertion too easy
6) [not visible] extractor groove has grown and the change can be measured with dial calipers

This brass I fired in a Ruger #1 223 that does not make extractor or ejector marks on case head.

The published load:
Hodgdon website: 223 Rem, H335, 25.3 GR. 55 GR. SPR SP, 2.200", 24" barrel, 3203 fps, 49,300 CUP

Loads in picture: CCI 400 small rifle primers, LC brass once fired processed from Scharch and prepped by me, 55 gr Vmax moly, H335
pic left to right: unfired, 28, 29, 30, and 31 gr.

unfired, extractor groove .329"
28 gr, extractor groove .329", 11% overload
29 gr, extractor groove .329", 15% overload
30 gr, extractor groove .3295", 19% overload
31 gr, extractor groove .3320", 23% overload

Notice how between 15% extra powder and 19% extra powder, that the extractor groove changed .0005".
This does not mean that the primer pocket got loose in one firing, but it does mean that the primer pocket will get loose in several firings.
I have found that measuring the extractor groove before and after firing is a much better indicator than how hard it is to insert the next primer.
And noticing a reduced effort inserting the next primer is a much better indicator than noticing if the last or next primer falls out. Primers falling out is something we are trying to avoid, but hopefully not the indicator we use to avoid it.

The 1950 .223 Remington case head is based on the 1950 design .222 Remington case head. When built with small Boxer primer pockets is good for 75,000 psi handloads for an individual rifle with long brass life [primer pockets do not get loose quickly].
The SAAMI registered pressure for the 223 is 55,000 psi. = 36% safety margin

the 6mmRem and 270Win are patterned after the 1889 7.65x53mm cartridge. When built with large Boxer primer pockets is good for 67,000 psi handloads for an individual rifle with long brass life [primer pockets do not get loose quickly].
The SAAMI registered pressure for the 6mmRem and 270Win are 65,000 psi. = 3% safety margin

Notice that the 223 case head has 36% extra safety margin in case head strength relative to SAAMI pressure registration, while the Mauser case head has 3%.
The difference can be exploited by expert handloaders [who know which rifles are much stronger than the brass], but novices should use published data.

I have drilled gas holes, built regulators, and changed recoil springs to tune the rifle to the load.
You, instead, probably want to tune the load to the rifle.
Some fast powders and light bullet combinations will not cycle an AR15, with any amount of powder.
Some slower powders and heavier bullets combinations with high powder charges can slam the bolt carrier into the receiver.

Many AR15s have NATO chambers. The longest cartridge over all length that will fit in an AR15 magazine will not reach the lands. The longest bullet barely seated in the case mouth may not reach the lands if fed single shot. This long jump to the lands can double groups size. Do the best you can with what you have got.
Feeding from an AR15 magazine into an AR15 chamber can bend and beat up a cartridge. This can affect group size. Do the best you can with what you have got.

So, what are you looking for in a load?
1) Long brass life [take dial calipers to the range to measure extractor groove growth]
2) Cycles the action [ejects case and feeds a new cartridge into chamber without jamming]
3) Does not slam the bolt carrier into the receiver [ejected brass should land nearby]
4) Precision [small groups]

 

[JoeBUtah]

Re: Load Development: Where and How to Start?

Poke around this site as well as reloading sites like Handloaders Bench. A quick google search will yield a ton of info as well.

Developing loads is a little science, a little art, and a little luck. That's what makes handloading appealing to me.

IMHO, <span style="font-style: italic">Doing</span> is as important as <span style="font-style: italic">studying</span>; in answer to your question "...<span style="font-weight: bold">just pick an accepted load (as shown in manuals) that has a bullet weight suited to my twist rate and try it out..."</span>
That works for me! You have to start <span style="font-style: italic">somewhere</span>, right?

I don't load my AR 15 for precision, unless you call 8" groups center of mass at 200 yds precision with an Aimpoint red dot; I call that battle accuracy. Here is what I use. Take it. Leave it. Whatever.
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic">YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY!</span></span></span>

23 grains Accurate 2230
2.240-2.250 OAL (fits the mag)
55 gr fmj
Winchester small rifle primers

Hope this helps!

 

[Phil3]

Re: Load Development: Where and How to Start?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Pressure signs in this case I fired in an AR15:
1) Case stretch in front of the web
2) Cratered primer
3) Imprint of extractor hole in breech face
4) Imprint of ejector hole in breech face
5) [Not visible] loose primer pocket makes next primer insertion too easy
6) [not visible] extractor groove has grown and the change can be measured with dial calipers

This brass I fired in a Ruger #1 223 that does not make extractor or ejector marks on case head.

The published load:
Hodgdon website: 223 Rem, H335, 25.3 GR. 55 GR. SPR SP, 2.200", 24" barrel, 3203 fps, 49,300 CUP

Loads in picture: CCI 400 small rifle primers, LC brass once fired processed from Scharch and prepped by me, 55 gr Vmax moly, H335
pic left to right: unfired, 28, 29, 30, and 31 gr.

unfired, extractor groove .329"
28 gr, extractor groove .329", 11% overload
29 gr, extractor groove .329", 15% overload
30 gr, extractor groove .3295", 19% overload
31 gr, extractor groove .3320", 23% overload

Notice how between 15% extra powder and 19% extra powder, that the extractor groove changed .0005".
This does not mean that the primer pocket got loose in one firing, but it does mean that the primer pocket will get loose in several firings.
I have found that measuring the extractor groove before and after firing is a much better indicator than how hard it is to insert the next primer.
And noticing a reduced effort inserting the next primer is a much better indicator than noticing if the last or next primer falls out. Primers falling out is something we are trying to avoid, but hopefully not the indicator we use to avoid it.

The 1950 .223 Remington case head is based on the 1950 design .222 Remington case head. When built with small Boxer primer pockets is good for 75,000 psi handloads for an individual rifle with long brass life [primer pockets do not get loose quickly].
The SAAMI registered pressure for the 223 is 55,000 psi. = 36% safety margin

the 6mmRem and 270Win are patterned after the 1889 7.65x53mm cartridge. When built with large Boxer primer pockets is good for 67,000 psi handloads for an individual rifle with long brass life [primer pockets do not get loose quickly].
The SAAMI registered pressure for the 6mmRem and 270Win are 65,000 psi. = 3% safety margin

Notice that the 223 case head has 36% extra safety margin in case head strength relative to SAAMI pressure registration, while the Mauser case head has 3%.
The difference can be exploited by expert handloaders [who know which rifles are much stronger than the brass], but novices should use published data.

I have drilled gas holes, built regulators, and changed recoil springs to tune the rifle to the load.
You, instead, probably want to tune the load to the rifle.
Some fast powders and light bullet combinations will not cycle an AR15, with any amount of powder.
Some slower powders and heavier bullets combinations with high powder charges can slam the bolt carrier into the receiver.

Many AR15s have NATO chambers. The longest cartridge over all length that will fit in an AR15 magazine will not reach the lands. The longest bullet barely seated in the case mouth may not reach the lands if fed single shot. This long jump to the lands can double groups size. Do the best you can with what you have got.
Feeding from an AR15 magazine into an AR15 chamber can bend and beat up a cartridge. This can affect group size. Do the best you can with what you have got.

So, what are you looking for in a load?
1) Long brass life [take dial calipers to the range to measure extractor groove growth]
2) Cycles the action [ejects case and feeds a new cartridge into chamber without jamming]
3) Does not slam the bolt carrier into the receiver [ejected brass should land nearby]
4) Precision [small groups] </div></div>

This is quite helpful. I liked all the info in text and photos on what over-pressure may look like. Never heard of measuring extractor groove growth, but will definitely check that. Yes, I want to tune the loads to this rifle.

The rifle is an AR15, using a Krieger barrel that has been chambered to 223 Remington, not NATO specs. I am loading via the mag (no single shot). My answer to what I am looking for in a load is #4, small groups. I would like #1 (long brass life), but know semi-autos can beat up brass. Reliable feeding is important. I have a net to catch brass.

My barrel is a 1:9 twist and am shooting at 100 yards. I have 52, 53, 55, 60, 68, and 69 grain bullets from Berger, Sierra, and Hornandy. I also have Vhitavouri N133, Hodgdon H322 and Varget, and Reloader 15 powders. I thought I would start off with a Sierra "accuracy load" for an AR15. That is a Sierra 53 grain HPFB bullet loaded to 2.250" OAL with 23.5 grains of Vhitavouri N133 powder. I would start out with their stated minimum load of 22.3 grains, working up. I am using Winchester unfired brass and Remington 7-1/2 primers.

Phil

 

[TexIndian]

Re: Load Development: Where and How to Start?

The OCW method TripWire prefers and the ladder system I prefer (described HERE) are both based on the work of Creighton Audette back in the 70's. They both work, it's just a matter of personal preference. Both methods are tedious and the results can be greatly influenced by shooter inconsistency.

I can't tell you how many partial boxes of bullets and partial cans of powder I have laying around as a result of experimenting with loads over the years. The advice given above can save you a lot of money - start with loads that work well for others. The 'potentially most accurate loads' listed in the Lyman manual have almost always been a great starting point with my guns.