loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

[Tangodown911]

Up to my ears in AR platform 5.56 stuff. With that said I'm very comfortable with the AR platforms. I'm ready to step into a .308 autoloader. What ever it is, I don't want cheap... As in not quality.

My first thought was to get into the M1As. I have a friend who had a custom M1A built with a stainless barrel installed in a new EBR stock. It's not shooting up to his standards or mine for that matter. Gun would only shoot one load good with 175smk. And that was around an inch for four shots then a flyer opened the group to just under 2". I'm thinking something isn't right with his setup. The rifle seems to shoot 2 or 3 shots in one hole then shoot 2 in another hole 2 inches away...sometimes alternating said holes from shot to shot. I really expected this rifle to be a reliable 1 moa rifle or better.

So what type of accuracy is typical of the Springfield loaded stainless M1As? I have heard the LMT MWS are producing sub moa results with decent ammo. Seems the smarter thing to do if go for the MWS.

Am I asking too much from the M1As or autoloaders in general? What kind of groups should I expect of these two systems? Outside of my familiarity with the AR platform, which is really a better platform in general?

Fellas I know I have a lot of questions but any help would be appreciated.

 

[BCP]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

That could be your friend and not the rifle. Also, I would get the MWS over an EBR setup and I'd probably get the chrome lined unless you get a good deal on a stainless version. Chrome lined range reports I've seen have all been satisfactory.

If you are willing to build your own you could probably have something really nice for under 2k, but it wouldn't have the barrel swap feature that the MWS has.

 

[Tangodown911]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

I did shoot it and witnessed the whole thing. I even put some FGMM 168 through it with no success. I like what the MWS offers and I'm not sure there is a real reason why one would choose a M1A over an AR platformed .308. Seems like there is much more versatility with the AR setups.

 

[Prairie Dog Dundee]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

I can't help you with an exact match but I own and shoot a SA M1A NM and a LMT MWS. As shown in the photo both have a SS 3-9X42 scope and I changed the stock on the LMT other than that they are stock. Top photo shows the rifles. Second photo shows a 500 yard target with the M1A NM, Bottom photo shows a 500 yard LMT target,(yello steel), a 300 yard rapid target, (white steel) and a 100 yard paper target. I got the M1A hoping for a little more and the LMT expecting less. Both are good rifles but the LMT is much more accurate. Hope this helps.

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[Tangodown911]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

What are the advantages of the M1A over the MWS... if any? Another point I thought of is the fact that the .mil has been using EBRs and accurized M1As in the sand box. I presume this is because there are not enough KACs to go around. I wonder if the MWS will replace the M1As being fielded.

 

[Prairie Dog Dundee]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

There are a couple of long threads covering the subject of M1A VS AR if you look for them. Both systems have die hard fans. I like the feel of the M1A and it fills a spot in my collection. I could put one of the new stocks on it but I like the nostalgia of the original look. For performance I'll go with the LMT. Mine is the chrome lined one BTW. The ones being used in the War on Terror are from the reserve stock held by our military, IMO they are doing a good job of making the most of what they have. Knights products seem to be the replacement that is being purchased. The British have purchased the LMT as a DMR.

 

[Oakland Tactical]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

I am a big M1A fan but I accept them for what they are. I am not going to use the EBR stock because its ergonomics. The one thing that interest me at this time is the Troy MCS stock, this stock puts the recoil energy a little higher than the bore line, the videos that I have seen are very impressive with regards to recoil management and looks to be a better optics platform as far as not having to put a falice on the stock to see through the scope. In addition it also modernizes the system for all the new add on parts.

If it is a solid 1.5 MOA (gun and shooter) you’re only shooting 12" groups at 800 IMO there is nothing wrong with that for a DMR. This may by why the Army is not bitching very much about it other than the ergonomics/weight. I am sure the system is effective I can’t believe that they haven’t done a lot of damage to the enemy with it.

I also have a LMT MWS and believe it is a superior system to the M14 because of the chrome lined chamber and chrome bolt. I don’t even think it gives up much on reliability because the carbon can’t stick to it as well as the old school ARs but time will tell. I also think it is superior because everything you do to the M14 has to be added on and there is some compromise to those additions.

 

[fmsniper]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

I have both rifles and carried the M14 with EBR in Iraq, the rifle was a beast and held up to everything that 15 months of crap hole gave it.

My DPMS 24 inch shoots under .5 MOA, I hunt with it

My M1A with Troy stock shoots around .75 it mostly sits in the safe, its heavier than my 308 DPMS.

I like both but shoot the DPMS much more

 

[MK14 SEI]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fmsniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have both rifles and carried the M14 with EBR in Iraq, the rifle was a beast and held up to everything that 15 months of crap hole gave it.



My DPMS 24 inch shoots under .5 MOA, I hunt with it

My M1A with Troy stock shoots around .75 it mostly sits in the safe, its heavier than my 308 DPMS.

I like both but shoot the DPMS much more


</div></div>

The TROY is nice, but it is heavier than most expect it to be.

 

[Stubb]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

I'm in the process of selling an M14 clone that I built out of USGI parts to fund an AR-308 build. Mine shoot well enough using the National Match sights, but I much prefer the ergonomics of the Stoner design. The M14 needs to be cleaned from the muzzle, and you don't want to pop the receiver off the stock unless absolutely necessary if you've bedded the rifle. On an AR-308, pop the upper off the lower, pull out the bolt carrier, and get to work. Scope installation on an M14 was at best an afterthought in the design, as doing so requires installing a raised cheekpiece that makes a heavy rifle even heavier. The scope mount sits over top of the bolt and makes cleaning even more fun. The M14 also has a higher bore axis than the AR-308 and lifts more in recoil. Swapping barrels on a AR-308 is also much easier.

—Andreas

 

[MK14 SEI]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

Interesting, I sold off my AR-308 to fund another M14 built with USGI parts... no regrets.

Nothing terribly wrong with the Stoner design, I just prefer the enhanced M14.

 

[BCP]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

If I had money to burn I would get another M1A, and it would look like the one prairie dog posted up. Until then I'll stick to my AR's, they are just plain better for less money.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TangoDown911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What are the advantages of the M1A over the MWS... if any? Another point I thought of is the fact that the .mil has been using EBRs and accurized M1As in the sand box. I presume this is because there are not enough KACs to go around. I wonder if the MWS will replace the M1As being fielded. </div></div>

Nostalgia. You can pour tons of money into an M14 EBR or....just get a good 308 AR. The MWS and OBR are two excellent examples that are cheaper, more readily available, and more accurate than the M14 EBRs.

I think the M110 and possibly the SR25-EM 16" carbine will eventually replace the M14s being fielded. Not the MWS though. The Corps has already announced that the M14 is being phased out. Not sure what the Army has planned for long term but I'd bet on the stop gap M14 being with them a little while longer.

 

[KM375]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

Its my experience with the M14 that once it is tuned and fired repeatedly it will get out of tune more rapidly than a DI .308 AR.

I don't know about the piston AR, if they take a similar beating internally, but time will tell if it has the same problem as the m14 style guns.

 

[AWARCORP]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

I have my LMT MWS BECAUSE of my M1A EBR. I have the exact same problem as your friend. I can fire a nice tight 1 inch group of 3-4 rounds and then gutter ball a round or two. Its irritating and after a lot of research have found that I am not the only one who suffers with the M1A EBR (I think its specific to the EBR) I believe others with this problem have not realized that you really have to drop cash into the EBR conversion to get a reliable and accurate rifle.

My MWS weighs less, is more fun to break down, and groups under an inch at 100 yards right out of the box. The recoil is less so my sight picture is always on target, it doesnt chew up my brass like my M1A, and the ease of inter changing the barrel gets you two rifles for the price of one.

 

[sgtbutt]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

I love my SA M1A standard in the EBR chassis. I love the feel of the Chassis since it balances perfectly for me. It free floats the barrel about a good six inches more than a regular stock and you don't have to worry about stock interference as much.
I'm not sure of weight values on all the AR platforms but my M1A weighs in at just over 16 lbs unloaded. This one is a heavy pig and I haven't humped it much more than a mile at a time. It's been a while since I've shot it for accuracy since I've used it for fun mostly and nothing precision wise.
As for ergonomics, I absolutely love the EBR over regular stock. I have been interested in the Troy MCS but my wife doesn't want a new stock for her M1A and I'm too broke for another myself.

Now with all this said, I am in the process of an IRA build. Its going to take quite a bit of time but I'll get it eventually. It will be a DPMS/Fulton/IRA build. Imagine a DPMS SASS with IRA lower and Fulton side charger upper.

Even though there are better options out there for a 308 platform I won't ever get rid of mine. It still is my funest rifle to shoot.

 

[nw911guy]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

I still think the wood stocked M1A is a just a nicer looking piece of hardware. That said, everything I've heard has supported the MWS when shooting for accuracy.

 

[Tangodown911]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EBRguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why did the military go with a piston driven weapon like the M1a to begin with?

The stoner design puts to much carbon in the receiver. Add a can and you will understand.

M1a's run cleaner. M1a's have a longer sight radius. M1a's are cheaper to build and repair. The EBR stock is a good mod.

Tell your friend to check the EBR front set screw and to verify the optics are mounted in the correct way.

The M1a is piston driven. You will lose accuracy when compared to a gas driven weapon. You lose accuracy when comparing a gas gun to a bolt action weapon.

The M1a has certain advantages over the AR design. It is easier to inspect the action and chamber. It has a flash hider that works well.

The AR has an easier to change mag and a better way to mount a scope. Which results in a more enclosed chamber area which is harder to clean and easier to clog up. You never read of M1a reliablity issues.

I would just buy both.
</div></div>

Fill out your profile... Nothing like a phantom poster.

 

[Tangodown911]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AWARCORP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have my LMT MWS BECAUSE of my M1A EBR. I have the exact same problem as your friend. I can fire a nice tight 1 inch group of 3-4 rounds and then gutter ball a round or two. Its irritating and after a lot of research have found that I am not the only one who suffers with the M1A EBR (I think its specific to the EBR) I believe others with this problem have not realized that you really have to drop cash into the EBR conversion to get a reliable and accurate rifle.

My MWS weighs less, is more fun to break down, and groups under an inch at 100 yards right out of the box. The recoil is less so my sight picture is always on target, it doesnt chew up my brass like my M1A, and the ease of inter changing the barrel gets you two rifles for the price of one. </div></div>

Thats a great point about brass life. It does seem that the M1As are brass whores that are a PITA to clean. It's gruelling to watch my buddy clean his M1A from the muzzle. For me, the M1As and have a ton of inherent problems when trying to modify them from there original configuration.

Basically the rifle was not intended for a scope to be mounted or to be a real accurate weapon because the piston won't allow it. But it is extremely reliable there is no debating that. The M1A is similar to an AK in many aspects as I see it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EBRguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It has a flash hider that works well. </div></div>
I'm sure if the MWS or any other weapon had a flash hider that was that big, then it too would work well.

Accuracy and ease of use without dumping a lot of time and money into a .308 autoloader weeds out the M1A for me. I've concluded the MWS is the way to go.

I hope me buddy gets is EBR setup going as I know he put alot of time and money into it.

Guys thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts, experiences, and pictures.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

I've never ever seen sight radius as a reason to get an M1 over an AR. Your post makes no sense but is sort of funny.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EBRguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why did the military go with a piston driven weapon like the M1a to begin with?

The stoner design puts to much carbon in the receiver. Add a can and you will understand.

M1a's run cleaner. M1a's have a longer sight radius. M1a's are cheaper to build and repair. The EBR stock is a good mod.

Tell your friend to check the EBR front set screw and to verify the optics are mounted in the correct way.

The M1a is piston driven. You will lose accuracy when compared to a gas driven weapon. You lose accuracy when comparing a gas gun to a bolt action weapon.

The M1a has certain advantages over the AR design. It is easier to inspect the action and chamber. It has a flash hider that works well.

The AR has an easier to change mag and a better way to mount a scope. Which results in a more enclosed chamber area which is harder to clean and easier to clog up. You never read of M1a reliablity issues.

I would just buy both.
</div></div>

 

[AWARCORP]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

H20 MAN, do you have any thoughts on MY accuracy issues with MY M1A EBR? I am not giving up on the rifle, just feel like my solutions are running thin. EBRguy?? wrote about the front screw set, I think he is referring to the tension screw at the front of the barrel which should not be an issue. Have you heard of this dilemma with shooters able to hold a 4 shot group and sending a 5th round flying? I lose a shot every 4-5 rounds, really irritating. I hope its not operator error

 

[MK14 SEI]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AWARCORP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">H20 MAN, do you have any thoughts on MY accuracy issues with MY M1A EBR? </div></div>

PM sent.

 

[praharin]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EBRguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">M1a's are cheaper to build and repair
</div></div>

For a given level of quality/accuracy, show me an M1A that is cheaper than an AR of some sort.

 

[Tangodown911]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

HA! I completely overlooked that "cheaper" part. I fail to see how one would arrive at that conclusion.

 

[BCP]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TangoDown911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HA! I completely overlooked that "cheaper" part. I fail to see how one would arrive at that conclusion. </div></div>

I liked the flash hider part best.

 

[BCP]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AWARCORP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">H20 MAN, do you have any thoughts on MY accuracy issues with MY M1A EBR?</div></div>

I've seen other rifles do this as well so I'd like to hear an answer. I always thought it was due to cheekweld issues.

 

[MK14 SEI]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AWARCORP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">H20 MAN, do you have any thoughts on MY accuracy issues with MY M1A EBR?</div></div>

I've seen other rifles do this as well so I'd like to hear an answer. I always thought it was due to cheekweld issues. </div></div>

I'm sure AWARCORP will post up after he get's things sorted out.

 

[henschman]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Outside of my familiarity with the AR platform, which is really a better platform in general?</div></div>

I guess that depends on what the application is. I would trust an M-14 more for prolonged rough use in the field. However, the .308 ARs offer better accuracy if you're looking for a range rifle.

I guess I would say that the M-14 makes a better battle rifle, and the AR makes a better precision rifle.

The M-14 has better iron sights. The AR is easier to mount a scope on.

There are more accessories for the AR. The M-14 has more surplus parts available, so you don't have to pay a premium for proprietary parts.

If you're talking about a comparable length/weight barrel, they are about the same when it comes to weight.

I went with an M1A since ruggedness, reliability, iron sights, and the ability to source spare parts are all very important to me (I see it as a SHTF rifle). It will mostly be used with surplus ammo, so I'm not too worried about what kind of groups I can get with match grade or hand loaded rounds. Mine is plenty accurate enough to hold under man-sized groups at 800m with surplus ammo, and that is all I really need. I can shoot it to around 1.25 MOA with good quality surplus ammo.

I don't shoot it in matches and I don't ever shoot it off a bench. It is purely a practical rifle. And it eats any 7.62 ammo I throw at it without so much as a hiccup, including the steel cased Russian stuff.

Wow, there is a lot of misinformation in this thread, btw. So M-14s don't come with chrome-lined barrels and chambers? Really? And an M1A has a more effective flash hider? Come on now.

 

[Tangodown911]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

Not to mention the higher cost of M1A mags compared to mags for the MWS... That is comparing a Springfield mag to a PMAG. PMAGs are cheaper you got to love how they pamper the mag well. IMHO, and I do mean humbly, the pmags are also a more reliable and durable mag.

 

[MK14 SEI]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TangoDown911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to mention the higher cost of M1A mags compared to mags for the MWS... That is comparing a Springfield mag to a PMAG.
PMAGs are cheaper you got to love how they pamper the mag well. IMHO, and I do mean humbly, the pmags are also a more reliable and durable mag. </div></div>

New USGI M14 mags are $25 ea. shipping included. These are both reliable and durable.

Nothing wrong with pmags except magpul doesn't make them for the M14.

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

DPMS and CMI 20 round mags are the same price at 44magdotcom


As to the flyers - I see flyers whenever my head position is not 100% consistent behind the rifle.


Good luck

 

[Oakland Tactical]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

The standard GI flash hider on a 22" M1A can easily be seen with NVDs but it does not flare out. You would definitely not want someone with NVD capability to be shooting at you because they would see every time you shot, with Gen III that would mean over 300 yards. I can tell you if you get the Smith vortex on the M1A it is hard to see at 5 yards with Gen III NVDs. the Vortex on the 16" AR is near impossible to see while shooting except the random single spark. Without it it is a little better than the M1A. I haven’t seen what a 16" 308 would do.

 

[MK14 SEI]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EBRguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The best made M1a barrels are $325 to $475 and are cut rifled. Plus chambering.
The socom 16 M1a is a complete waste of time and money. Very hard to modify the flash hider for a can. Recoil is increased. I would look towards an 18" scout or longer variety.
</div></div>

I am a big fan of the 18" Bush, Scout, MK14 Mod 0 & 1... SEI now has a standard weight 16" barrel that has 4 grooves and a 1:10 ROT.
Their SOCOM DC Vortex muzzle device kit and SOCOM gas plug round out the package making it easy on the ears/eyes and it will accept the SEI/Fisher sound suppressor.
I have not fired this new 16" barrel yet, my rifle is in the process of being built. The barrel and muzzle kit are available now.

NOTE: The SEI/Fisher sound suppressor does require a cut down locking collar when used on the SOCOM, these are available from Dave Fisher.

 

[J-Ham]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EBRguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cut rifling will give you a 2" advantage over a button bore. </div></div>
I'm guessing the boys over at Broughton would probably disagree with this "blanket statement", as would most people that have any experience outside of internet conjecture about button-rifled barrels.

Not trying to start another cut vs. button argument, just saying that there are some good button rifled barrels out there and I would not be so bold at to make this statement, YMMV.

 

[Tangodown911]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J-Ham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EBRguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cut rifling will give you a 2" advantage over a button bore. </div></div>
I'm guessing the boys over at Broughton would probably disagree with this "blanket statement", as would most people that have any experience outside of internet conjecture about button-rifled barrels.

Not trying to start another cut vs. button argument, just saying that there are some good button rifled barrels out there and I would not be so bold at to make this statement, YMMV. </div></div>

I think ebrdude meant to say hand lapped barrels vs. the $50 factory Rem. barrels. Which in that case are not button barrels but CHF barrels. I could be wrong though.

 

[Oakland Tactical]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

I agree with J-Ham, I don’t think anyone would say Noveske barrels give up anything to a cut barrel. The Noveske stainless steel barrels are all button rifled. BTW a guy on this site (I think Prairie Dog) shot a five round 1000 yard group with the MWS CL barrel was about a 14" group (could have been smaller).

And then there is the barrel length and energy? According to Sierra Infinity the 16" with 175g at 2350 has 50 more ft. pounds of energy at 1000 than a Winchester 150 boat tail ballistic tip at 2810 from a 22" M1A and 75 more ft. pounds than the FGMM 168. The MWS even with the CL Barrel with 16" 1 in 10 is much better suited for the DMR task than the EBR.

My conclusion is that my MWS setup can do everything and more than any M1A and mine only weighs 12 pounds with a full mag. I would like to see someone drive that 16+ pound 40 inch rifle effectively through a shoot house.

 

[Tangodown911]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

+100 the MWS is a clear winner over the EBR. After furthering my research and reviewing posts here, I've concluded the EBR setup is nothing more than reliable compared to the MWS. And so far I haven't seen anything solid on the MWS being any less reliable than an M1A. Just a few theories which do hold water but the actual tests are what matters. I would like to see if the MWS could run 1000+ rounds suppressed with out a stoppage. My bet is that it would. For me 1000+ suppressed rounds with no stoppages and no cleaning or lubing is enough of an endurance test for what I need. My 5.56 MRP went over 1300+ suppressed without cleaning or lube with no hang ups. I finally felt bad and cleaned it.

 

[PoserHater]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

Well EBRguy,

The military never went to the M1A system. The M1A is a civilian version of the M14 rifle designed and manufactured by Springfield Armory, Inc. in 1974. The term "M1A" is a proprietary title for Springfield Armory's M14 pattern rifle. Early M1A rifles were built with surplus G.I. parts until Springfield Armory, Inc. began manufacturing their own. The M14 was developed from a long line of experimental weapons based upon the M1 rifle, which according to Patton, was "The greatest battle implement ever devised." Although the M1 was among the most advanced infantry rifles of the 1940s, it was not a perfect weapon. Modifications were beginning to be made to the basic M1 rifle's design since the twilight of the Second World War. Changes included adding fully automatic firing capability and replacing the 8-round "en bloc" clips with a detachable box magazine holding 20 rounds. Thats how the military went with the M1 and M14, not the M1A.

M1A is cheaper to build and repair than an AR? You have no idea what you are talking about.Your posts dont make any sense. Do you know how to type a paragraph? What is your point?

 

[PoserHater]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

"You guys dont seem to agree on the flash hider?

Why is that? Have you used them with NVGs at night?
If you have please give your results."

Well EBRgay, I dont think you have much experience in using NV.............

 

[PoserHater]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

"The problem with the 308 ar design is it uses a lot more gas to run and they get hot. I have heard of the rifles cooking off under heavy firing due to increased heat into the receiver and bolt area."

Well EBRguy,

I have a lot of experience with .308 ARs. According to several manufacturers, cooking off is a problem. I have never experienced this, even with the thinner-cased commercial .308 brass. Your statement about gas in the bolt area is pure speculation. You have NO experience with them. I made my name "poserhater" for posers like yourself. You have no professional training with either weapon......thats obvious!!!

 

[MK14 SEI]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TangoDown911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Up to my ears in AR platform 5.56 stuff. With that said <span style="text-decoration: underline">I'm very comfortable with the AR platforms</span>. I'm ready to step into a .308 autoloader. </div></div>

I have read nothing but good things about the LMT MWS... you should stay in your comfort zone and stick with the AR platform.

As for the M1A, I'm not a big fan of Springfield's lack of QC. For those that want a high quality M14 EBR I suggest a custom
built rifle in the SAGE EBR Mod 1 stock. This stock is easily 2.5 pounds lighter than the EBR stock most are familiar with.

Custom built M14s are not cheap... I imagine you could buy two LMTs for the price of just one really nice custom M14 EBR.

 

[Oakland Tactical]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

I’m not a M14 hater; I have had 9 of them which included Glenn Nelson built rifles. I have shot service rifle and have used them in field training in real dirt and water, I can tell you they are not infallible. I would have agreed before the current crop of "Super Weapons" like the LMT, POF, LWRCI, KAC and OBR that the M14 was a better choice in the DMR role. The argument for not cleaning a rifle for 1000's of rounds is stupid for a combat weapon. A lot of things have changed since 1957, I can't think of one thing the M14 does <span style="font-style: italic">better</span> than any of these new rifles.

 

[Edgewater]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

Poser, three posts here. All in this thread and nothing but bashing. I know EBR's credentials. Anything to back up your credentials? If so, then rant on. If not, find another site.

 

[MK14 SEI]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EBRguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As of this time I do not think there is a special EBR stock that can use rear lugged reciever? I am sure H20man can advise.
</div></div>

True. The SAGE EBR does not require or accept a rear lugged receiver

As EBRguy mentioned, the civilian semiauto receiver design eliminates the possibility of middle disengagement of the op rod - this is a good thing.

 

[MK14 SEI]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EBRguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Why did the military go with a piston driven weapon like the M1a to begin with?

The stoner design puts to much carbon in the receiver. <span style="text-decoration: underline">Add a can and you will understand.</span>


</div></div>

True. The internal workings of a suppressed M1A/M14 stay clean much longer than the internals of a suppressed DI .308 AR will.

 

[PoserHater]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

Edgewater, EBRguy has no credentials. He has no formal training on either rifle or formal training with NV devices. He is the kind of guy that lays prone at the 100 yard line and shoots 3 round groups. He wants a 1000 yd gun, but doesnt have the ability to shoot that far. He doesnt even know what dope to dial on his optics. He never shoots in the wind, doesnt know how to judge wind, and only shoots from the prone.

 

[PoserHater]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

Hey, I found a few videos of EBRguy. Check it out. He is the guy on the right:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn438ox49UA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Edgewater]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

Merry Christmas to you to. Keep up the good work. Feel free to enlighten us with your "wisdom"

 

[MK14 SEI]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

Sounds like the eggnog has been spiked

 

[PoserHater]

Re: loaded stainless M1A in EBR Vs. Lmt MWS SS 16"

M1A build is NOT cheaper than a 308 AR build. You have lost your mind. Seems you know about as much about buying parts as you do about shooting!!!