Loads for 6.5 SAUM 4S

[Bob L Swagger]

Since the GAP 6.5 SAUM 4S has taken off, the http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...185807-new-gap-extreme-hunter-6-5-saum-3.html thread in the bolt action rifles section has become cluttered with many posts making it extremely time consuming to locate data within the thread. If you have a rifle chambered in this caliber and would like to share your load, please post the following:

1. Details of rifle ie. builder, action, barrel, twist, barrel length, chamber finishing reamer used etc.
2. Powder & charge weight
3. Primer
4. Brass (Brand & purchased processed or processed yourself - trim length)
5. Bullet (please post lot#)
6. Seating depth COAL or base to ogive (please specify)
7. Velocity (list type of chronograph used)
8. Best and worst group attained with said load (3 shot groups are more than adequate)
9. List any game you harvested with this rifle and please included distance of shot.
10. This thread is extremely photo friendly!! Please include photos of your rifle, shot groups, brass preparation, loaded 6.5 SAUM 4S ammo, spent casings, harvested game.
11. If you can think of anything pertinent that would add useful / helpful information to the thread feel free to add it in your post..

Photos are 100% optional but are appreciated.

Please do not post in this thread unless you can provide the aforementioned data request. Lets keep the clutter of "Hey nice group, Nice rifle, have you seen ......? etc.." down to a minimum.

Yes I have seen the thread http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-reloading/195161-care-feeding-gap-6-5-saum.html and Pat posted EXCELLENT and EDUCATIONAL information. Unfortunately it has quickly become cluttered with meaningless posts creating obstacles while trying to extract pertinent information.

Thank you!

 

[diverdon]

Have you checked out Pat's excellent thread? http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-reloading/195161-care-feeding-gap-6-5-saum.html

 

[H.ARM]

1. GAP Xtreme Hunter #20
2. H-1000, 63 grains
3. Federal 215M
4. New 300 Remington SAUM stepped down with bushings .325 to .315 to .295. Necks turned to .015.
5. Berger 130 gr. VLD Hunting. Sorted by length, base to ogive. Trimmed (Hoover). Tipped (Hoover).
6. Seating depth is .080 jump ogive to jam.
7. Low 3200's. Don't want to say the chrono, cuz I've already read what a loaf of shit it is. But it's what I have.
8. Best, less than 1/2 MOA, 5 shot groups. Worst, not good as I zeroed in on seating depth.
9. Shot nothing but paper and rocks, though my wife nearly shot me when she saw the invoices on rifle/scope/reloading tools and supplies
10. See attached
11. My first time with bushing dies, necking down brass, neck turning, meplat trimming, bullet pointing, sweating component availability, and grinning every time I pull the trigger. Even with the steep learning curve, the guys that developed this cartridge, built the rifle, and shared their knowledge on this forum made the process idiot proof and enjoyable, if expensive.

 

[bas402]

H.ARM,
New or old reamer? Assuming this is old reamer since #20 but it depends if it's after July of 13. Looking for new reamer info.

 

[CPGFAN]

1. Cloud Peak Gunworks built the rifle. Pierce action, spiral fluted Brux bbl at 24" and 8.5 twist. New reamer
2. Ramshot magnum 64.7 grains
3. Fed 215
4. Nosler 300 SAUM brass that I prepped
5. 140 JLK
6. Base to ogive seating depth is 2.238" with comparator zeroed.
7. Velocity 3180 tested w magnetospeed as well as oehler 35
8. Best group was in the mid .2s at 100 and less than .5 moa at 1050

Don't look past Ramshot magnum. It provides great velocity with low ES AND SD. Sorry can't get 1050 video to load

 

[H.ARM]

New reamer.

H.ARM,
New or old reamer? Assuming this is old reamer since #20 but it depends if it's after July of 13. Looking for new reamer info.

 

[MuleyMan]

H.ARM,
Is your stock painted or Dipped?
I own #12 Xtreme hunter.
Thanks,RS

 

[H.ARM]

H.ARM,
Is your stock painted or Dipped?
I own #12 Xtreme hunter.
Thanks,RS

Painted. Branden at Custom Gun Coatings. Very satisfied with his work and his customer service.

 

[goatsie]

Have you tried Ramshot with 130 bergers?

1. Cloud Peak Gunworks built the rifle. Pierce action, spiral fluted Brux bbl at 24" and 8.5 twist. New reamer
2. Ramshot magnum 64.7 grains
3. Fed 215
4. Nosler 300 SAUM brass that I prepped
5. 140 JLK
6. Base to ogive seating depth is 2.238" with comparator zeroed.
7. Velocity 3180 tested w magnetospeed as well as oehler 35
8. Best group was in the mid .2s at 100 and less than .5 moa at 1050

Don't look past Ramshot magnum. It provides great velocity with low ES AND SD. Sorry can't get 1050 video to load

 

[CPGFAN]

Have you tried Ramshot with 130 bergers?

Ran 65 grains Ramshot magnum with 130 JLK's fed 215 for a 3296 velocity. Shot well.

 

[goatsie]

What other powders can be used? I am going powder shopping tomorrow! Thanks!

 

[Tomg]

Tag

 

[bas402]

Anyone done any testing with 139gr Scenars?

 

[ManBearPig]

Will fire forming cases with H4831 be better than a slower powder like 1000 or Retumbo?


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[IanB]

Surgeon action
KMW Sentinel
Benchmark 1-8 twist 28 inch barrel
Jewell trigger






Four shot groups at 100 yards, starting from 60.7 and moving up in .3 increments to 61.6, I then decided to up it too 61.8. I'm hoping a change of primer might bring both shots on the right back into the center of the group.

H1000
CCI magnum primers
140 Berger Hybrids
Copper Creek 6.5 4S cases (Norma 300 Saum brass)
I Haven't run them over a chronograph yet, but from a 100 zero I needed 9 MOA to get me too 600 yards.



As soon as the weather settles I will try H1000 with 140 gr JLK's and also change the primers on the load above.

 

[Papagallos]

1. Surgeon 591 WSM, Sentinel IMB, Bartlein, M24, 1:8.5, 26", APA Break, GAP's New Reamer. The 4S was built by a kickass dude that goes by the name of Omar Alonzo from Pasadena, Texas.

2. H1000, 61.5. I tested several loads that ranged from 60.0, 60.5, 61.0, 61.5, and 62.0. The 61.5 was the best load out of the five.

3. Federal 215M

4. Norma SAUM prepped brass from Copper Creek. I still trimmed the brass to approximately 2.014"

5. Berger 130 VLD. Lot #5423.

6. 2.90 COAL. I also tested two additional seating depths, 2.86 and 2.82. They didn't do too well.

7. I was getting an average velocity of 3161fps with the 61.5 load. I used the MagnetoSpeed chrono.

8. The best group at 100 yards measured in the .1s. The worst group was in the .2s.

9. I took ownership of the rifle this past Saturday, and I slaughtered two Sows this morning. Both were a little over 100 yards and I shot both off-hand.

10. The 6.5 4S is a phenomenal cartridge. It is very, very soft shooting, especially with a break.








100 Yards, 3 Shots.



1,000 Yards, 3 Shots, but this group was with the 60.0 load. It measured under 4". I didn't have enough time to test the other loads. That's still pending.






130 VLD destruction!!!!!! The hog was on the move and I took the shot offhand. I apologize for the Ham shot.

 

[bas402]

Papa,
Great looking rig and I love the componets. I notice that your 61.5 had a pretty high ES/SD, is that why you used the 60gr load at 1000? What was the ES on the 60gr load? By the way nice harvest and thanks for the info it will be very helpful going forward

 

[Papagallos]

Papa,
Great looking rig and I love the componets. I notice that your 61.5 had a pretty high ES/SD, is that why you used the 60gr load at 1000? What was the ES on the 60gr load? By the way nice harvest and thanks for the info it will be very helpful going forward

Thanks, bas402.

I don't recall the ES/SD from the 60 grain load. I will say this, all loads had a very high ES. Each round had considerable runout. I want to attribute it to the process of converting the brass. My intention was to test all the loads at 1K, therefore, I started with the 60.0 load. I had very little time to continue with the other loads. What I've decided to do is test new loads with the fireformed brass. I have a feeling they are going to perform stellar and expect that the ES will be considerably lower.

 

[Fongman]

Holy Crap it sure hammered those hogs!
Thanks for the detailed report, please keep us informed.

 

[H.ARM]

Thanks, bas402.

I don't recall the ES/SD from the 60 grain load. I will say this, all loads had a very high ES. Each round had considerable runout. I want to attribute it to the process of converting the brass. My intention was to test all the loads at 1K, therefore, I started with the 60.0 load. I had very little time to continue with the other loads. What I've decided to do is test new loads with the fireformed brass. I have a feeling they are going to perform stellar and expect that the ES will be considerably lower.

+1. I have had shooters tell me there is not a big difference in accuracy between virgin reformed cases and fire formed cases. However, concentricity run out on the Remington 300 RSAUM stuff I'm starting with will be as high as .020 after initial die forming and neck turning. After fire forming and a quick touch up with neck turner, they (and the loaded ammo that follows) always show run out at .002 or less. For this reason, I've been fire forming with whatever assorted bullets/primers/powder I have on hand, and saving my hard-to-come-by components for testing or money loads. IMHO and FWIW.

 

[Papagallos]

I tested a few loads today at distances of 300 yards and 1K yards.

300 yards. The 62 grain load group measured .920" edge to edge.



1K yards. The 62 grain load measured under 2.50".

 

[bas402]

Good shooting there papa, I am really liking what I see from your rig and I hope mine shoots as good. Have you tried any 139 or 140's yet? But looking at your results from the 130's I think I would just enjoy shooting the darn thing for a while. How would you rate the recoil with the brake?

 

[dworrel]

Isn't the GAP load 63.0 grains?

 

[Papagallos]

Isn't the GAP load 63.0 grains?

What does that mean? GAP uses special sauce?

I think you are referring to a load in which Remington brass is used. I am using Norma brass. It has less case capacity.

 

[A10XRIFLE]

What does that mean? GAP uses special sauce?

I think you are referring to a load in which Remington brass is used. I am using Norma brass. It has less case capacity.

Xtra Special Sauce!!


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[Papagallos]

Xtra Special Sauce!!


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Ken Lin Asian Sauce.

Get back to work, birthday boy!

 

[dworrel]

Sorry, just about to do the same process with mine. Wanted to know if there was anything different.

 

[IanB]

My first piece of meaningful data.

Loads are Berger 140 gr Hybrids, 2.895 COL, CCI magnum primers and H1000
Benchmark 1-8 twist 28 inch barrel
Norma 300 Saum brass, neck sized .293

From left to right 59.5, 59.8, 60.1, 60.4


Four shot groups shot at 100 yards over a Oehler 35p, 59.5 gave me 3090 fps with a ES of 11 and 60.4 was 3150 fps with a ES of 12. I will be shooting both of these loads at 600 yards to see how they perform, I will also verify the velocities with a Magneto speed.

Update

Both loads of 59.5 and 60.4 shot well at 600 yards, 59.5 being slightly better and holding a good half minute vertical and using 9 minutes of elevation from a 100 zero. The Magneto speed verified the data I had from the Oehler 35p and 59.5 grains of H1000 gave 3113 fps, about 18 fps faster than the Oehler read.
I also ran a few of my original loads of 61.6 grains of H1000 over the Magnetospeed and it gave me speeds of 3219 fps, the Oehler read 3200 fps, the rest of these loads will be pulled as although the loads were accurate, its to fast to expect any sort of reasonable barrel life.

next up are the 139 grain Scenars.

 

[jonthomps]

First time to the range for break-in and load development. Rifle specs:

GAP build (new reamer)
24" Bartlein #3 barrel
Norma brass worked by C4
215 Federal GM Match primers
MagnetoSpeed chrono

Load data:

63gr H1000 w/ Berger 130gr VLD: 3164fps average over 5 shots
61gr H1000 w/ Berger 140gr VLD: 3037fps average over 5 shots
Shot other loads (total of 30 rounds fired) but the rest kinda sucked accuracy wise.

Couple of questions:

1. Will my fps increase after a couple more rounds down the tube? I'm disappointed with the velocity of the 140's.
2. Best I could manage today was a 2/3" 5-shot group. Weather not an issue. Any accuracy increase with once-fired brass?
3. The first 2 shots right after each cleaning I got pretty stiff bolt lift and extractor marks. Never had this happen before. Wet chamber? Ideas on causes?

Thanks guys.

 

[Fongman]

jonthomps,

What COAL were you using with those loads?

 

[A10XRIFLE]

First time to the range for break-in and load development. Rifle specs:

GAP build (new reamer)
24" Bartlein #3 barrel
Norma brass worked by C4
215 Federal GM Match primers
MagnetoSpeed chrono

Load data:

63gr H1000 w/ Berger 130gr VLD: 3164fps average over 5 shots
61gr H1000 w/ Berger 140gr VLD: 3037fps average over 5 shots
Shot other loads (total of 30 rounds fired) but the rest kinda sucked accuracy wise.

Couple of questions:

1. Will my fps increase after a couple more rounds down the tube? I'm disappointed with the velocity of the 140's.
2. Best I could manage today was a 2/3" 5-shot group. Weather not an issue. Any accuracy increase with once-fired brass?
3. The first 2 shots right after each cleaning I got pretty stiff bolt lift and extractor marks. Never had this happen before. Wet chamber? Ideas on causes?

Thanks guys.

Norma brass has less capacity, you have to reduce the loads. And yes after 100-200 rounds you will see a big velocity increase


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[jonthomps]

jonthomps,

What COAL were you using with those loads?

I was at 2.880" w/ the 130's and 2.900" w/ the 140's. This was in the new GAP reamer.

 

[Fongman]

I was at 2.880" w/ the 130's and 2.900" w/ the 140's. This was in the new GAP reamer.

Thanks for the response. I'm still trying to figure out what the new COAL should be with the new reamer. But IF I understand correctly, you may pushing those into the lands a bit hard. Here is something George posted recently:

A10XRifle:
Because the Reamer change seems to have a lot of guy’s concerned I thought I would measure different bullets to the lands in both chambers for everyone so everyone can understand the need for the change.
Measurements are COAL to the lands
Case: Rem 6.5 SAUM 4S

Old Reamer Most rifles built had this chamber through July of 2013

140 Berger Hybrid 2.960
140 JLK 2.965
130 JLK 2.965
130 Berger VLD 2.910
140 AMAX 2.880

New Reamer after July or 2013

140 Berger Hybrid 2.920
140 JLK 2.925
130 JLK 2.925
130 Berger VLD 2.860
140 AMAX 2.830

Basically a .040 - .050 depending on type of bullet

 

[steve123]

Has anyone tried the 123 Scenars yet?

 

[XTREM HTR16]

Tag


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[orrbull48]

tag

 

[mdonnr]

Kimber 8400 load info

1. Kimber 8400 action, Bartlein Med Palma 8.5 twist, 25" finish, High Tech Remington 700 varmint stock fitted to barreled action, 6.5 Saum 4S .298" neck .081" freebore(way short), Kelley Custom Gun Service of Burwell, Ne did all the work. Leupold VX-6 3-18x44 duplex recticle, American Rifle Company M10 Low rings.
2. H1000 61.5 grs
3. CCI BR2
4. Norma 300 Saum brass, processed myself, turned for a .295" loaded neck, didn't trim but will after first firing, first batch of 50 had .001"-.010" runout, revamped my method and the next 100 cases had less than .003" or less runout, First time doing something that labor intensive, Well worth it though
I can do a write up on the my method if anyone is interested.
5. Berger 130 gr VLD Hunting Lot#5806, tried some hybrids but haven't nailed down a load yet
6. With my goofball reamer, 2.820" COAL
7. 3190 fps, Shooting Chrony Model F-1
8. Best 100 yd grouping 5 shot was approx. 3/8, 1/2" was more common
9. No game as of yet.

My only long range group was at 620 yards. It would have been a 3" grouping but I jerked a shot and it ended up as a 6" group. It will be awhile before I can go out again. Very happy with the end result. Just need more time behind the scope.

Fireformed brass on left and prepped brass on right.

 

[Bob L Swagger]

1. Built by Robert Gradous of Gradous Rifles / Stiller Tac 30 action / Jewell trigger / 24" Bartlein #3 contour 1:8.7 twist fluted by kampfeld customs Cerakoted Flat Dark Earth / Vais muzzle brake / McMillan A3 Sporter Edge painted by Todd Jackson of USgunworks / PTG Colt Tactical Stealth DBM / Nightforce .885" UL rings / Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x50 ZS HS MOAR / Atlas Bipod / PTG GAP 6.5 SAUM 4S .2962 NK .081 FB

2. 62.0 gr. of H-1000

3. Federal 215M

4. Norma 7mm SAUM brass self processed with Redding FL 7 SAUM dies .295 & .291 bushings (As per the instructions from Pat's thread) neck turned with a K&M neck turing kit, trimmed to 2.025".

5. Lapua 136 gr. Scenar Lot # P00682302

6. Seated 2.198" @ Ogive (.010" out of lands)

7. 3196 fps. per Magneto Speed chronograph

8. I only shot a few groups with this rifle so far, the best I got out of it so far is .246" for 3 shots at 100 yards during load work up. Will edit post once I get some more trigger time with it.

9. Haven't hunted with this rifle yet, just built it a few days ago.

 

[Bob L Swagger]

1. Built by Robert Gradous of Gradous Rifles / Surgeon 591R action / Jewell trigger / 25 7/8" Krieger MTU contour 1:8.5 twist 5R / Cerakoted Flat Dark Earth / Badger Ordnace FTE muzzle brake / KMW Sentinel stock GAP camo / Nightforce 1.125" UL rings / Nightforce NXS 5-25x56 ATACR MOAR / Atlas Bipod / PTG GAP 6.5 SAUM 4S .2962 NK .081 FB

2. 60.0 gr. of H-1000

3. Federal 215M

4. Norma 7mm SAUM brass self processed with Redding FL 7 SAUM dies .295 & .291 bushings (As per the instructions from Pat's thread) neck turned with a K&M neck turing kit, trimmed to 2.025".

5. Berger 140 gr. Hybrid Lot # 5416

6. Seated 2.188" @ Ogive (.020" out of lands)

7. 3052 fps. per Magneto Speed chronograph

8. I only shot a few groups with this rifle so far, the best I got out of it so far is .113" for 3 shots at 100 yards during load work up. Will edit post once I get some more trigger time with it.

9. Not a hunting rifle, just built it for banging steel and target shooting.














Processed brass on left, fire formed on right:

 

[XTREM HTR16]

Bob,

Very nice!!

 

[Raufoss]

Bob.

Did you get any case neck that snap(broke) when resizing after neck turning?

I use the k&m tool like you and turn the shoulder exactly like you also. But my neck broke when i resize them.

 

[Papagallos]

Bob.

Did you get any case neck that snap(broke) when resizing after neck turning?

I use the k&m tool like you and turn the shoulder exactly like you also. But my neck broke when i resize them.

Did you use an expander? I don't believe you have to use an expander after neck turning. The bushing should be the only thing that resizes the neck.

 

[Raufoss]

No expander after neck turning.

I just tried for experimentation to re resize the neck after neck turning it but the neck broke at shoulder junction(fall in the case...)

 

[SPAK]

Are you're sure you're only turning to .015? I can't imagine a neck falling off unless you were turning too deep or too much into the shoulder..

 

[CPGFAN]

Are you're sure you're only turning to .015? I can't imagine a neck falling off unless you were turning too deep or too much into the shoulder..

+1. Never seen that before.

 

[Bob L Swagger]

Bob.

Did you get any case neck that snap(broke) when resizing after neck turning?

I use the k&m tool like you and turn the shoulder exactly like you also. But my neck broke when i resize them.

Negative sir.. That hasn't happened... Yet... I have roughly about a hundred rounds through both now..

 

[Raufoss]

Yes .015 mesured with shim and dial Indicator.

I turn exactly as bob pictures.....strange

 

[Raufoss]

Maybe It is the Bushing i use. .291 steel

 

[SPAK]

Are you lubing the necks when rezsizing using the steel bushing??


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[Raufoss]

Yes of course. I use imperial wax

I will make other test