LOL this guy is plain retarded

[308pirate]

So much cringe. So much ignorance. So much bullshit.

"The last match I went to was designed for 1911s with red dots and I won with iron sights"

"The battery caps breaks, flips open, and blocks the red dot. I've seen it"

"Go to a match, go to the check in table, and watch how many people turn in their slips who didn't finish the match. Ask them why and most will say my red dot broke"

"If you can't see through the optic you're fucked"


LOL this guy is living a fantasy. And making up some much bullshit I had to get a scuba tank to keep from drowning.

 

[Haney]

 

[308pirate]

View attachment 8365986

He's doing a great job of putting himself down without my help.

He's getting ripped apart in the comments to his idiotic video. And rightly so.

ETA: I have no problem with someone who says "I don't want to put the time in to learn how to shoot a pistol with optics".

I do have a problem when someone calls himself some sort of trainer/expert and then proceeds to give a shitload of incorrect information to people who don't know any better. You bet your ass I, and many others, will call out morons like that.

 

[Jcreid06]

If you think stoeger is living a fantasy I’m not sure what world you are in. He’s probably one of the best if not the best handgun instructors out there. Yah his personality can be a put off to some, but his actual instruction is very very good.

Using the housing as an aiming point has been around for as long as the RDS has been on pistols. It’s simply a training tool if your dot goes down. I’ve trained it multiple times and you can be fairly accurate to distances you wouldn’t expect.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

His rifle section in the video was also a gem.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

If you think stoeger is living a fantasy I’m not sure what world you are in. He’s probably one of the best if not the best handgun instructors out there. Yah his personality can be a put off to some, but his actual instruction is very very good.

Using the housing as an aiming point has been around for as long as the RDS has been on pistols. It’s simply a training tool if your dot goes down. I’ve trained it multiple times and you can be fairly accurate to distances you wouldn’t expect.

I could be wrong, but I was assuming he was using Stoegar's video to show why all the shit the other guy says isn't an issue.

 

[FuhQ]

Firearms and Egomaniac training courses now available at the Summers Eve factory with Ben S. & Kevin B.

 

[hlee]

I didn’t watch the vid, but guy chose the correct thumbnail to get clicks…

 

[Charmingmander]

So part of his logic is shitty chink dots break so don't use a dot at all?

 

[Jcreid06]

I could be wrong, but I was assuming he was using Stoegar's video to show why all the shit the other guy says isn't an issue.

You may be right. If so, my bad. How the stoeger video formatted on my phone with the text it wasn’t clear.

 

[MarshallDodge]

I think red dots are great but maybe someone can help me with all the maintenance issues that I see.

Yesterday, I pulled my VP9 out of the case to check holster fitment. The battery was dead and the mount had worked it's way loose. My son has broken three dots on his G19- two Trijicons and a Holosun. No abuse, just a lot of shooting.

I will continue to carry with irons until I get comfortable with something more reliable, and less maintenance intensive.

 

[308pirate]

If you think stoeger is living a fantasy I’m not sure what world you are in. He’s probably one of the best if not the best handgun instructors out there. Yah his personality can be a put off to some, but his actual instruction is very very good.

Using the housing as an aiming point has been around for as long as the RDS has been on pistols. It’s simply a training tool if your dot goes down. I’ve trained it multiple times and you can be fairly accurate to distances you wouldn’t expect.

You misunderstood my post. Stoeger's video is there as an expert counterpoint to the fool whom I'm making fun of.

 

[Gustav7]

I think red dots are great but maybe someone can help me with all the maintenance issues that I see.

Yesterday, I pulled my VP9 out of the case to check holster fitment. The battery was dead and the mount had worked it's way loose. My son has broken three dots on his G19- two Trijicons and a Holosun. No abuse, just a lot of shooting.

I will continue to carry with irons until I get comfortable with something more reliable, and less maintenance intensive.

I have no problem admitting there is more nuance to properly setting up a dot, and I'm sure the incidence of dots failing in some way is a little more than irons, but probably not as much as people think.

I change my batteries in my pistol red dots on my birthday every year. I left my original SRO's battery in my comp gun, and it lasted almost 3 years to the day I got it lol. Changing on birthday, I've never had one go off on me. I have had a bad battery, but I bought cheap batteries too so that may be my fault.

All my dots, I buy alloy screws from Mcmaster Carr(deep wall allen head, 5/64") Never had a single one come loose after the first RMR came loose on me with shitty screws and no loctite. I get the alloy screws, a dab of blue loctite, and torque to 15-18in/lbs.

The other caveat to your son's G19 would be the MOS mounting platform if he uses that. Did his actual optics break? or the screws/plates?
I carry daily with an SRO, I've banged it on shit while carrying, dropped it in the Mud last weekend training, smacked it a handful of times on the ground falling, etc and haven't had any issues. I will say, a properly mounted RDS is just as, if not MORE important, than a properly mounted precision scope.

 

[hlee]

@MarshallDodge

"Broken" really isn't a maintenance issue. Look to why and how it broke. Then, address the why. I'll just throw out there that some people's "normal use" is pretty frickin' harsh.

As to dead batteries, what sight? Most have at least a year of life, at constant on. Change the batteries every year. Pick a day. New Year's, your birthday, wedding/divorse anniversary, whatever. Change all the batteries in all of your guns. Dab the mounting screws with blue locktite and tighten to specification. Check the screws when you clean your gun.

Carry Optics is the fastest growing division in USPSA competition shooting. It's only Fudds and luddites that are resisting the pistol mounted red dot revolution.

But, to the guy's point. Yeah, if you can find someone that pulls out of a match for a failure, the most likely failure is probably going to be the red dot. It is the most likely point of failure. That's just "duh..."

@Gustav7 beat me to most of this...

 

[308pirate]

I think red dots are great but maybe someone can help me with all the maintenance issues that I see.

Yesterday, I pulled my VP9 out of the case to check holster fitment. The battery was dead and the mount had worked it's way loose. My son has broken three dots on his G19- two Trijicons and a Holosun. No abuse, just a lot of shooting.

I will continue to carry with irons until I get comfortable with something more reliable, and less maintenance intensive.

Maintenance is zero if the sights are

1. Quality sights with known long battery life
2. Battery replacement is done at a frequency relevant to how you use the sight's brightness settings
3. Installed with the correct screws, tightened to a torque appropriate to the screw thread specs and the material of the mating threads, and with medium strength thread locker.

Which brand of red dot is on your VP9? When was the last time you changed the battery? Is it always on, or do you shut it off when you store the pistol? If it's always on, is it on a fixed brightness or are you using an auto-adjust brightness setting (if available)? What size screws mount your sight to the slide (or adapter plate)? How much torque did you apply? Did you apply thread locker? Are the screws the right length? Too short of a screw and they won't generate enough clamping force. Too long of a screw and they'll bottom out before creating the needed clamping force.

How did your son break three RDS sights? Were they early failures or long after he bought them? Did he drop them? Were they loose on the slide?

I have been shooting nothing but red dots since 2019 at a volume most people simply cannot match. I have two Trijicon RMRs, two Trijicon SROs, and one C-More RTS2. I have not broken any of them, even though one of the SROs hit the ground hard when I tripped, fell, and had to let go of the pistol to break the fall.

My carry pistols all have RMR RM07s (6.5 moa dot, adjustable brightness LED). The RMR is always on with the brightness mode locked in auto adjust. I change batteries every 2 to 3 years and have never had a dead one. My SROs, which are used on competition pistols, get turned off when not in use. The oldest one was bought in 2020 and it's still on its original battery. The RTS2 is a battery hog because its dot is super bright (it was designed solely as a competition optic) and I found a dead battery on it once already. It's a 30 second job to replace the battery on the RTS2 and it doesn't need to be removed from the slide for that.

 

[bmash]

I have RMRs on my 454 casull, ZEV 9mm, Glock 20, and a 45 colt. Zero issues. I have a Shield RMS on my 365XL with no issues. This has been for many years. As Gustav7 said, go buy quality screws for all applications. The head on the supplied screws on one of mine deformed when changing the battery. None of these use a secondary plate system. On my carry pistols I can use the irons if necessary.
oh, I forgot the C-More on a 44 mag! (I deer hunt with them on the 454 and 44)

 

[308pirate]

None of these use a secondary plate system.

Half of my pistols are direct milled and half have OEM adapter plates. Zero issues with either one.

You either know how to tighten shit up or you don't.

 

[308pirate]

His rifle section in the video was also a gem.

all around cringe worthy

 

[wvfarrier]

Gun enthusiasts, hunters and fisherman are our own worst enemies. We constantly insult, berate and demean each other....sooner or later its going to help the left take those activities away from us

 

[Charmingmander]

Gun enthusiasts, hunters and fisherman are our own worst enemies. We constantly insult, berate and demean each other....sooner or later its going to help the left take those activities away from us

Nah brah. Retards need to be called out and ridiculed at every opportunity. Gatekeeping morons and mocking their idiotic opinions NEEDS to happen in this industry/culture/whatever you want to call it because these aren't toys. They're tools. Life saving tools. And bad advice, fuddlore, misinformation, and tardation are a detriment to us all and can get people killed, maimed, or at best severely limit their capabilities or potential.

 

[Gustav7]

Gun enthusiasts, hunters and fisherman are our own worst enemies. We constantly insult, berate and demean each other....sooner or later its going to help the left take those activities away from us

No group gets along perfectly. No group agrees on everything. The problem is not the gun "community", the problem is access to information and that we're human. The problem is not a problem because it cannot be solved, it is inherent in our systems/minds. The way to mostly overcome that is to rely on the "group" to mostly or partially agree on things that tend to be the most true. The use of red dots on pistols has become common place because of that.

When you have humans willing to degrade or short-side the information, message, experience, etc. for clout, or in the name of being "unique", you're going to have pushback.

Would I rather there be pushback and contention? Or would I rather no one say anything and shitty info gets put out.

That logic, while not entirely untrue, is similar to saying that since I got in a fist fight with my brother, I'm destined to start fights with every man I disagree with.

 

[Gustav7]

Nah brah. Retards need to be called out and ridiculed at every opportunity. Gatekeeping morons and mocking their idiotic opinions NEEDS to happen in this industry/culture/whatever you want to call it because these aren't toys. They're tools. Life saving tools. And bad advice, fuddlore, misinformation, and tardation are a detriment to us all and can get people killed, maimed, or at best severely limit their capabilities or potential.

Exactly.... this is why judo chops and pocket knife fighting shouldn't be taught to a 5'1" woman. It gives them the sense they are prepared when they are most certainly not.

 

[db2000]

You bullies leave me alone. I spent a lot of time making those videos.

 

[308pirate]

Gun enthusiasts, hunters and fisherman are our own worst enemies.

We police our ranks of stupidity

...sooner or later its going to help the left take those activities away from us

Explain how

 

[Thud]

I need more popcorn

 

[candyx]

Red dots are useless that's why I got a green dot ......

 

[Jip4012]

Nah brah. Retards need to be called out and ridiculed at every opportunity. Gatekeeping morons and mocking their idiotic opinions NEEDS to happen in this industry/culture/whatever you want to call it because these aren't toys. They're tools. Life saving tools. And bad advice, fuddlore, misinformation, and tardation are a detriment to us all and can get people killed, maimed, or at best severely limit their capabilities or potential.

This is one of the problems with not having male only spaces anymore. When we started opening up everything to everyone, that’s when everyone stopped understanding ball busting is part of being a member of an organization.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Maintenance is zero if the sights are

1. Quality sights with known long battery life
2. Battery replacement is done at a frequency relevant to how you use the sight's brightness settings
3. Installed with the correct screws, tightened to a torque appropriate to the screw thread specs and the material of the mating threads, and with medium strength thread locker.

Which brand of red dot is on your VP9? When was the last time you changed the battery? Is it always on, or do you shut it off when you store the pistol? If it's always on, is it on a fixed brightness or are you using an auto-adjust brightness setting (if available)? What size screws mount your sight to the slide (or adapter plate)? How much torque did you apply? Did you apply thread locker? Are the screws the right length? Too short of a screw and they won't generate enough clamping force. Too long of a screw and they'll bottom out before creating the needed clamping force.

How did your son break three RDS sights? Were they early failures or long after he bought them? Did he drop them? Were they loose on the slide?

I have been shooting nothing but red dots since 2019 at a volume most people simply cannot match. I have two Trijicon RMRs, two Trijicon SROs, and one C-More RTS2. I have not broken any of them, even though one of the SROs hit the ground hard when I tripped, fell, and had to let go of the pistol to break the fall.

...

The VP9 has a Holosun of some flavor with the little solar panel on top- 507? A local competitor put it together and I picked it up from him when he was going to a VP9L. The battery probably needs to be replaced. I'll pull the assembly off and loctite the screws.

My son isn't the easiest person on his gear. He does shoot a lot, and dry fires even more. Him and his buddies go out and play in the desert so who knows what they put their gear through.

That said, you're not going to convince me that dots are trouble free and nobody is having issues. There are long threads on several pistol focused forums that discuss this in length.

I'm also not trying to sway someone from using them. They are a great shooting aid if you want to deal with them.

 

[hlee]

Him and his buddies go out and play in the desert so who knows what they put their gear through.

Yeah, this is where you get guys using the optic to charge the gun 1 handed, by slamming it into tailgates/props/rocks/ledges/whatever, calling it normal use, then saying “idk why it broke. Probably a pos…”

 

[308pirate]

That said, you're not going to convince me that dots are trouble free and nobody is having issues.

Nothing is trouble free, and everybody has an issue with something.

All my Trijicon reflex optics have been 100% trouble free. My C-More did start acting up soon after I started using it. I sent it back and had it back fixed for free in less than 10 days (30 yr warranty no questions asked). Now it runs like a champ.

I have never, ever had a sight come loose or off when I didn't want it to. I cannot understand how people so often fuck something so simple up.

There are long threads on several pistol focused forums that discuss this in length.

Other people's tale of misfortune aren't mine, so I don't care. If I paid attention to every time someone had a problem with something somewhere, I'd own nothing more complex than a hammer.

 

[Makinchips208]

Nothing is trouble free, and everybody has an issue with something.

All my Trijicon reflex optics have been 100% trouble free. My C-More did start acting up soon after I started using it. I sent it back and had it back fixed for free in less than 10 days (30 yr warranty no questions asked). Now it runs like a champ.

I have never, ever had a sight come loose or off when I didn't want it to. I cannot understand how people so often fuck something so simple up.


Other people's tale of misfortune aren't mine, so I don't care. If I paid attention to every time someone had a problem with something somewhere, I'd own nothing more complex than a hammer.

I broke a hammer once also…

 

[308pirate]

I broke a hammer once also…

Were you a Marine at some point?

 

[hlee]

Nothing is trouble free, and everybody has an issue with something.

All my Trijicon reflex optics have been 100% trouble free. My C-More did start acting up soon after I started using it. I sent it back and had it back fixed for free in less than 10 days (30 yr warranty no questions asked). Now it runs like a champ.

I have never, ever had a sight come loose or off when I didn't want it to. I cannot understand how people so often fuck something so simple up.


Other people's tale of misfortune aren't mine, so I don't care. If I paid attention to every time someone had a problem with something somewhere, I'd own nothing more complex than a hammer.

You do know- of course- that if you bang two hammers together, you can break one or both…