"Long Action" Semi-Auto Rifles - What's the consensus?

[LRShooter101]

Looking for any discussion/feedback on the "long action" semi-auto rifle platforms. Specifically, how are they performing? This could apply to several "long action" calibers, not just .300 WM. The intent is NOT to debate the applications for these rifles.

Some of those platforms include:
Nemo Arms - https://nemoarms.com/product-category/omen/

Falkor Defense - https://www.falkordefense.com/petra

Noreen - https://onlylongrange.com/bn36x3-long-range-300-win-mag-7mm-rem-mag

Great Lakes Firearms & Ammunition - https://glfallc.com/firearms/long-action-rifles/

Bear Creek Arsenal - https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/guns-parts/bc-8.html

Are there other "long action" semi-auto rifle platforms out there?

What has been your experiences, good or bad, with any of the "long action" semi-auto rifle platforms?

I have been doing my best to research this topic, but my results have been pretty hit & miss. I have found information, but I am questioning the consistency and validity of much of it.

Thanks in advance!

EDIT - Some of what is out there:
NEMO


Bear Creek Arsenal


Great Lakes

 

[stanley_white]

I am interested to hear the situation where a follow-up shot is needed, from a 300 Winchester Magnum, and a bolt-action speed follow-up shot is too slow.

-Stan

 

[Overwatch260]

I am interested to hear the situation where a follow-up shot is needed, from a 300 Winchester Magnum, and a bolt-action speed follow-up shot is too slow.

-Stan

Charging grizzly bear or moose perhaps... Only possible situation I could think of

 

[LRShooter101]

I am interested to hear the situation where a follow-up shot is needed, from a 300 Winchester Magnum, and a bolt-action speed follow-up shot is too slow.

-Stan

I was hoping to get some feedback going on performance/reliability, not a discussion on application, but since it has been brought up.

Primary application for me is nuisance, predator, or population control at longer ranges where wind can be a significant factor. These can frequently be multiple target, or multiple follow up shot, situations. The locations could also have brush or branches in the flight path. This also primarily involves shooting off of a tripod. Based on past experiences, the lightweight bullets (.223 & .243) are not performing optimally between the wind and possible obstacles in the flight path. I am looking to step up to a heavier bullet (.284 or .30), with the power of a magnum behind it, to help with those issues. Personally, I shoot much better with a semi-auto off of a tripod for multiple shots, versus trying to run a bolt. I am really looking at a 7mm Mag (Win or PRC), not a .300 Mag. The 7mm bullets have some of the best BCs going, and the heavier weight could help with clipping a lightweight obstacle.

Per the topic on the AR-10 7 SAUM https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/7mm-saum-ar.7220002/, I have also been looking at going that route, but I also wanted to see if there may be an option with the "long action" semi-autos?

My initial thought, trying to get a long action magnum to run reliably out of a semi-auto is not going to be an easy thing to accomplish. However, in many cases, if you don't try it, you will never know. The market has gone from a single offering with the Omen, to multiple offerings with the others. I am not sure if that is a sign of success, or some manufacturers just throwing something in the market to try and get a piece of the market share?

Thanks again for the feedback.

 

[stanley_white]

I was hoping to get some feedback going on performance/reliability, not a discussion on application, but since it has been brought up.

Primary application for me is nuisance, predator, or population control at longer ranges where wind can be a significant factor. These can frequently be multiple target, or multiple follow up shot, situations. The locations could also have brush or branches in the flight path. This also primarily involves shooting off of a tripod. Based on past experiences, the lightweight bullets (.223 & .243) are not performing optimally between the wind and possible obstacles in the flight path. I am looking to step up to a heavier bullet (.284 or .30), with the power of a magnum behind it, to help with those issues. Personally, I shoot much better with a semi-auto off of a tripod for multiple shots, versus trying to run a bolt. I am really looking at a 7mm Mag (Win or PRC), not a .300 Mag. The 7mm bullets have some of the best BCs going, and the heavier weight could help with clipping a lightweight obstacle.

Per the topic on the AR-10 7 SAUM https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/7mm-saum-ar.7220002/, I have also been looking at going that route, but I also wanted to see if there may be an option with the "long action" semi-autos?

My initial thought, trying to get a magnum to run reliably out of a semi-auto is not going to be an easy thing to accomplish. However, in many cases, if you don't try it, you will never know. The market has gone from a single offering with the Omen, to multiple offerings with the others. I am not sure if that is a sign of success, or some manufacturers just throwing something in the market to try and get a piece of the market share?

Thanks again for the feedback.

Great post!

Thank you!

-Stan

 

[Overwatch260]

I was hoping to get some feedback going on performance/reliability, not a discussion on application, but since it has been brought up.

Primary application for me is nuisance, predator, or population control at longer ranges where wind can be a significant factor. These can frequently be multiple target, or multiple follow up shot, situations. The locations could also have brush or branches in the flight path. This also primarily involves shooting off of a tripod. Based on past experiences, the lightweight bullets (.223 & .243) are not performing optimally between the wind and possible obstacles in the flight path. I am looking to step up to a heavier bullet (.284 or .30), with the power of a magnum behind it, to help with those issues. Personally, I shoot much better with a semi-auto off of a tripod for multiple shots, versus trying to run a bolt. I am really looking at a 7mm Mag (Win or PRC), not a .300 Mag. The 7mm bullets have some of the best BCs going, and the heavier weight could help with clipping a lightweight obstacle.

Per the topic on the AR-10 7 SAUM https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/7mm-saum-ar.7220002/, I have also been looking at going that route, but I also wanted to see if there may be an option with the "long action" semi-autos?

My initial thought, trying to get a magnum to run reliably out of a semi-auto is not going to be an easy thing to accomplish. However, in many cases, if you don't try it, you will never know. The market has gone from a single offering with the Omen, to multiple offerings with the others. I am not sure if that is a sign of success, or some manufacturers just throwing something in the market to try and get a piece of the market share?

Thanks again for the feedback.

Honestly man, I would probably steer clear of the Bear Creek rifle, a coworker friend had an experience with one of their AR15 barrels that wouldn't headspace at all with any bolt he had available (probably at least a dozen bolts) so I couldn't trust a belted magnum pressure round to a company that could screw up a regular 5.56 barrel that badly. I've been looking at building as well in a short magnum off of @Masczek receiver set to be able to run AICS mags for a little extra cartridge overall length. Just seems a lot simpler with good quality parts that are readily available versus going the long action belted magnum route in an AR platform to me.

 

[Aftermath]

Looking for any discussion/feedback on the "Long Action" semi-auto rifle platforms. Some of those platforms include:

Nemo Arms - https://nemoarms.com/product-category/omen/
View attachment 8525441

Great Lakes Firearms & Ammunition - https://glfallc.com/firearms/long-action-rifles/
View attachment 8525442

Bear Creek Arsenal - https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/guns-parts/bc-8.html
View attachment 8525445

Are there other "Long Action" semi-auto rifle platforms out there?

What has been your experiences, good or bad, with any of the "Long Action" semi-auto rifle platforms?

I have been doing my best to research this topic, but my results have been pretty hit & miss. I have found information, but I am questioning the consistency and validity of much of it.

Thanks in advance!

 

[SFree]

Browning BAR, .300 win mag

 

[roosterpig]

Ohio Ordnance HCAR.

 

[LRShooter101]

Honestly man, I would probably steer clear of the Bear Creek rifle, a coworker friend had an experience with one of their AR15 barrels that wouldn't headspace at all with any bolt he had available (probably at least a dozen bolts) so I couldn't trust a belted magnum pressure round to a company that could screw up a regular 5.56 barrel that badly. I've been looking at building as well in a short magnum off of @Masczek receiver set to be able to run AICS mags for a little extra cartridge overall length. Just seems a lot simpler with good quality parts that are readily available versus going the long action belted magnum route in an AR platform to me.

Thanks for that feedback, it is exactly what I think will be beneficial in this topic.

I have found about a 50/50 mix when it comes to the topic of Bear Creek Arsenal. Some users are reporting great performance, and others say they are a complete piece of junk. An interesting review of the company https://gear-report.com/bear-creek-arsenal-review-gear-report-road-trip-factory-tour/ (*Note this is from 2019)
I am trying to do some additional research to determine if the quality issues were a thing of the past, and they have since been corrected, or if they are currently still occurring? Could you advise what timeframe your buddy had his issue?
Personally, they are not high on my list at this point!

Also, I am not looking to run a belted magnum, I would actually like to run a 7mm PRC. Most likely, I would have to start with one of these rifles, and then have it rebuilt for that round.

I ran a 7mm SAUM in a short action bolt rifle, but the COAL issue prevented the use of the real high BC bullets. Since the PRC cartridges came out, the performance of the 7mm PRC is exactly what I am looking for, but per my previous comments, I would prefer to not have to run it out of a bolt rifle.

Per your comments, the receiver being built by @Masczek may be the best option, but I think that it needs more in terms of production numbers and time in the field before we know what the outcome will really be.

 

[LRShooter101]

I am attempting to create a topic where the performance/reliability of "long action" semi-auto AR platforms can be discussed.

If you can provide some type of feedback along those lines, please feel free to contribute. If not, please also feel free to move onto something else.

 

[hkguns]

I have found about a 50/50 mix when it comes to the topic of Bear Creek Arsenal. Some users are reporting great performance, and others say they are a complete piece of junk.

I don't have anything to say about long action, but BCA is absolute GARBAGE, even worse than BRO, if that is possible.

Anyone debating that quite literally knows nothing and you can ignore anything they have to say about guns.

 

[Aftermath]

Per your comments, the receiver being built by @Masczek may be the best option, but I think that it needs more in terms of production numbers and time in the field before we know what the outcome will really be.

Agreed.
Needs more testing.
You should test it and let us know how it goes.

 

[Masczek]

My little project is still pretty new, but it's been a couple years since development first started. Honestly, the receiver itself has undergone little change, mostly cosmetic. During development, the biggest changes where with the mag release and bolt stop. The mag release dictates how high the mag sits in the receiver, I wanted it as high to the center line of the bore as possible, makes for easy feeding that way.

I admit, I'm biased when it comes to my receiver. After all, I originally designed it just for me, afterwards, I figured others may also find it interesting enough to try. That being said, there are plenty of guys here that already got their 300 WSM/7 SAUM rifles to function with large frame AR parts with one of the biggest issues being the mag problems. The AICS mags pretty much eliminate those problems out of the gate. @LRShooter101 I'm always available if you have any questions on it, feel free to PM me anytime, I'm more than happy to go over them with you.

 

[sloporsche]

browning has what you need right off the shelf 300 win mag 338 win mag

 

[carbonbased]

Apparently the Benelli R1 is available in .30-06, .300 Win. Mag., and .338 Win. Mag.

Never heard of that one.

https://www.benelliusa.com/rifles/r1-big-game-rifle-series

The text on the page says they make one but I cannot find it on their site.

Here’s a direct link to the 300WM models (man their site sucks)

https://www.benelliusa.com/rifles/300-win-mag

…which, I just noticed, doesn’t include a semi-auto nice web work Benelli, nice

 

[rlsmith1]

RRA has one too

https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=2032

 

[LRShooter101]

My little project is still pretty new, but it's been a couple years since development first started. Honestly, the receiver itself has undergone little change, mostly cosmetic. During development, the biggest changes where with the mag release and bolt stop. The mag release dictates how high the mag sits in the receiver, I wanted it as high to the center line of the bore as possible, makes for easy feeding that way.

I admit, I'm biased when it comes to my receiver. After all, I originally designed it just for me, afterwards, I figured others may also find it interesting enough to try. That being said, there are plenty of guys here that already got their 300 WSM/7 SAUM rifles to function with large frame AR parts with one of the biggest issues being the mag problems. The AICS mags pretty much eliminate those problems out of the gate. @LRShooter101 I'm always available if you have any questions on it, feel free to PM me anytime, I'm more than happy to go over them with you.

Thanks for the feedback here, and thanks for your work to develop your lower. I will be reaching out shortly!

 

[LRShooter101]

First & Foremost, thanks to everyone for the feedback. I started this topic with 3 long action semi-auto options, and that list has at least tripled with everyone's feedback.

To try and clarify a couple of things:
- My intent in starting this was not to just get an answer for myself, it was to create a "resource" for those who were looking for feedback on long action semi-autos. I was ultimately hoping to get some feedback from actual end users, what has worked, and what has not.
- I was originally thinking that this would include AR platforms, but if it should be expanded to include other long action semi-auto platforms, then so be it.
- I was primarily looking to get feedback on function, reliability, etc. If the discussion also drifts into application, also so be it.

Personally,
- I am not looking to run a .30 or .33 caliber rifle, if I can get a good .28 caliber option. Preferably, that would actually be a 7mm PRC.
- I am looking at AR platforms, I am not looking at any "traditional platforms". Those traditional platforms typically lack detachable mags, don't have solid optics mounting options, and they have poor stock ergonomics, etc. An AR platform will typically allow you to address all of those.
- Based on what I have seen so far, I am not going to find an actual 7mm PRC off the shelf rifle, so I will have to start with a factory model and get it re-barreled.
While those are my personal preferences, that is not the only things that should be discussed here, any preferences are welcome.

Please keep the feedback coming!

 

[carbonbased]

RRA has one too

https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=2032

Says it’s on “indefinite backorder”.

I’m sensing a pattern here…browning, benelli, RRA…either must be hard to consistently make an accurate semi-auto long action magnum or not enough people buy them.

 

[XLR308]

I am interested to hear the situation where a follow-up shot is needed, from a 300 Winchester Magnum, and a bolt-action speed follow-up shot is too slow.

-Stan

From a game hunters point of view I follow you but for the two legged critters it has its appeal.
Let two or three line up for the first shot then when the pink mist is in the air game on.

 

[Ghosting]

Says it’s on “indefinite backorder”.

View attachment 8526745

I’m sensing a pattern here…browning, benelli, RRA…either must be hard to consistently make an accurate semi-auto long action magnum or not enough people buy them.

I had asked a company that makes them in the past when I bought one and they said they make them to order because not many people can shell out $6,000+ on a semi auto 338 lapua. So it wasn't something they mass produced since it was a specific and small amount of Clientele that bought them.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

Charging grizzly bear or moose perhaps... Only possible situation I could think of

Yes. LGS guy in AK talked about this like 30 years ago. His top sellers were Browning BARs in .300 and .338 for bears.

 

[AR shooter]

I wouldn't be afraid to try a GLFA. I like to shoot AR's long range and have been wanting a 30 06. I bought a GLFA 223 and it shoots everything I put through it sub MOA. Can't beat the price.

 

[kthomas]

I am interested to hear the situation where a follow-up shot is needed, from a 300 Winchester Magnum, and a bolt-action speed follow-up shot is too slow.

-Stan

Reminds me of a convo I had on a Canadian gun forum, in regards to PGW's Direwolf rifle. I'm not sure if it ever made it to market, but PGW made a semi-auto .338LM rifle called the "Direwolf".

Some users on this forum were pumping this thing up to be some sort of a step-change for military snipers. It was supposed to represent some sort of a revolution in that space. Of course, I questioned how quick follow up shots would be necessary with a .338LM - a system you are using in situations where you have time and space on your side. You are not likely to be sending a round down range until you see where the first one impacted, and at .338LM engagement distances a semi doesn't afford you anything a bolt doesn't. Except a bigger, heavier package that's more difficult to shoot.

The only niche I can see it filling is rapid engagements on vehicles - think drug interdiction type stuff, like what the coasties do.

Of course, I was labelled a heretic for daring to question this revolutionary step-change in sniping. But PGW essentially is out of business, and I don't think the Direwolf was ever manufactured, at least not in any real numbers. So I guess I was right.

 

[rlsmith1]

So I guess I was right.

You want a cookie?

 

[kthomas]

You want a cookie?

Chocolate chip would be great

 

[rlsmith1]

Chocolate chip would be great

Send me location, my wife has the house smelling like chocolate banana bread but no promises I save any

 

[JR1200W3]

I watched someone struggle with a Nemo Omen 300WM. It absolutely ate brass that came out pristine in a bolt gun. He ended up sending it back. As a gun, these things are like 3" lift kits. They seem pretty cool when installed. After 60,000miles they are a headache. Constantly replacing bushings and ball joints. Tires wear out early. As a concept the recoil negates any sort of speed one gets from an autoloader. A bolt gunner can cycle the bolt and be ready for the next shot as fast as someone following thru and recovering from a 300WM in a +P+ gas gun. 100% a novelty.

 

[sloporsche]

I have an A bolt in 300 winmag and can get back on target pretty fast using 178 gr sst/eld type but its a struggle to re-acquire shooting the 220 gr godzilla killa ammo . I would expect the same with an auto loader , i would have gone the auto loader route but most states do not allow semi auto for hunting .........but a 5 shot + mag dump would be pretty damn cool .....besides chicks dig big man gun magnums lol

 

[Aftermath]

i would have gone the auto loader route but most states do not allow semi auto for hunting

What?

 

[Aftermath]

I have an A bolt in 300 winmag and can get back on target pretty fast using 178 gr sst/eld type but its a struggle to re-acquire shooting the 220 gr godzilla killa ammo . I would expect the same with an auto loader , i would have gone the auto loader route but most states do not allow semi auto for hunting .........but a 5 shot + mag dump would be pretty damn cool .....besides chicks dig big man gun magnums lol

IDAHO

UTAH

MONTANA

OKLAHOMA

TEXAS

KANSAS

You may be reading the regulations wrong. Granted, I did not check hunting regs in 26 states and am not going to but there is no such restriction on use of semi-auto in any state that I have ever hunted in from Alaska to Texas.

 

[sloporsche]

IDAHO

View attachment 8528687
UTAH
View attachment 8528688
MONTANA

View attachment 8528689

OKLAHOMA
View attachment 8528690
TEXASView attachment 8528691
KANSAS

View attachment 8528700

You may be reading the regulations wrong. Granted, I did not check hunting regs in 26 states and am not going to but there is no such restriction on use of semi-auto in any state that I have ever hunted in from Alaska to Texas.

you are correct ,only 2 states do not allow semi auto for hunting pa and del ......times sure have changed

 

[Aftermath]

you are correct ,only 2 states do not allow semi auto for hunting pa and del ......times sure have changed

Changed in that there once was not even 2 states? I would agree with that. But if you are saying that there was once many more, I think you are not correct.
The restrictions seem to only get worse as our rights continue to be infringed upon. Vote accordingly.
Note, with interest, that many of the states do not overtly state that use of full-auto is restricted. Some state that "only weapons (or methods of take) defined" may be used. Others, if it is not overtly banned, it is allowed...the more common language.

Time for you to exercise your rights and get that chick magnet big man semi auto magnum.

 

[sloporsche]

Changed in that there once was not even 2 states? I would agree with that. But if you are saying that there was once many more, I think you are not correct.
The restrictions seem to only get worse as our rights continue to be infringed upon. Vote accordingly.
Note, with interest, that many of the states do not overtly state that use of full-auto is restricted. Some state that "only weapons (or methods of take) defined" may be used. Others, if it is not overtly banned, it is allowed...the more common language.

Time for you to exercise your rights and get that chick magnet big man semi auto magnum.

naaa too old ,i am happy with my AK's and my SW 340 PD for CC

 

[W54/XM-388]

If you do some research, there have been safety concerns and events when using AR platform style rifles scaled up to accommodate the .300wm and .338LM rounds.

If you are dealing with your local drug lords and their vehicles and need to deal with that, there is already the correct tool for that made by a company starting with B...

 

[roosterpig]

Rhymes with ferret

 

[Broncovan]

I watched someone struggle with a Nemo Omen 300WM. It absolutely ate brass that came out pristine in a bolt gun. He ended up sending it back. As a gun, these things are like 3" lift kits. They seem pretty cool when installed. After 60,000miles they are a headache. Constantly replacing bushings and ball joints. Tires wear out early. As a concept the recoil negates any sort of speed one gets from an autoloader. A bolt gunner can cycle the bolt and be ready for the next shot as fast as someone following thru and recovering from a 300WM in a +P+ gas gun. 100% a novelty.

So you're saying you could hit a 30" target 3 for 3 at 720 yards in 3.5 seconds with a bolt gun?
I watched a shooter at an outlaw 3gun match do it with a Nemo Omen. Hell, I'm not a great shooter and was at 5.7 seconds.
We had 130 shooters put 3 rounds each through one rifle over the course of 2 days and the rifle just ran.

 

[JR1200W3]

So you're saying you could hit a 30" target 3 for 3 at 720 yards in 3.5 seconds with a bolt gun?
I watched a shooter at an outlaw 3gun match do it with a Nemo Omen. Hell, I'm not a great shooter and was at 5.7 seconds.
We had 130 shooters put 3 rounds each through one rifle over the course of 2 days and the rifle just ran.

Hmm. Hard to tell. It would be tough. I bet I could rip three rounds into a standard e type at 15 yds with the Nemo in 4 secs but I couldn't do that with a 25lb MK22. But that doesn't really prove much with a precision magnum rifle made for long range, does it?
But an even better counter is what if that target wasn't 30", the broad side of a barn and inside of .223 range. What if that was a 2moa target at 1200? Would you be shooting so fast?

The point is follow through and recovery takes more time in a large frame AR than it does a bolt gun. Magnify that by long action magnum AR. The reciprocating weight cycling back and forth. You can run the bolt in that time you don't have to deal with recovering the inertia of all that cycling mass. And in a broader range of practical scenarios, I don't think there's any real advantage of shooting a precision 300WM out of a gas gun over a bolt gun.

Edit to add: People perceive a gas gun in giving them more "firepower ". They can send rounds faster than a bolt gun. In a belted machine gun that's true. In a AR-15/ M4 platform (in the scenarios it is made for) it is also true because of the lighter recoil and higher capacity magazines. But when you're magazine capacity is limited you don't have a real advantage of speed of fire because it gets truncated by mag changes. You're just trying to rip through those 10rds in the mag faster. Ultimately you're dealing with the same bullet dispenser. Which sounds like a horrible idea for a precision magnum rifle

 

[CaptArab]

KAK makes 300wsm parts for the DPMS platform. Taking one of those to 7 wsm would be a cheap way to get this awful idea out of your system.

This would be the way to fly if you want something you might almost partially get your money back out of- https://www.eurooptic.com/barrett-m...stem-tan-receiver-29-fluted-barrel-14029.aspx

 

[LRShooter101]

Well, given that everyone seems to be more interested in posting everything other than actually discussing the performance of these rifles, I am done wasting my time with it. For those who actually tried to provide some feedback on the rifles, thank you.

 

[sloporsche]

the mets lost

 

[CaptArab]

I am done wasting my time with it. For those who actually tried to provide some feedback on the rifles, thank you.

Go ahead and do yourself a favor and be done with the whole idea. A 6/6.5 creedmoor will do everything you need and then some.

If you need more, you don't need an auto loader, and if you did you wouldn't be asking. Your original post is rife with fanciful delusion.

I suppose if you enjoy building rifles for science and burning up a retirees time and money that's the closest use case you'll find to actually justify such frivolity. Real world use case is nil.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Well there was this option of a .408 in semi auto for the well heeled and adventurous

VR1 408 Cheytac | Arizona | Vigilance Rifles Inc

The VR1 408 Cheytac. Heavy duty, accurate, sniper capable rifle made in the USA. Call or email today for your next firearm.

www.vigilancerifles.co

 

[LRRPF52]

 

[knuckleballz]

Thread 'Magnum ARs-Noreen Vs Falkor vs NEMO'
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/magnum-ars-noreen-vs-falkor-vs-nemo.7152843/

 

[knuckleballz]

Magnum ARs-Noreen Vs Falkor vs NEMO

Really been wanting a magnum-frame AR (300 Win Mag) for a while, and all three of these companies are Montana local so I'd like to shop at one of them. The Noreen has the lowest cost but I can't find where barrels are sourced, although I have had good luck with their parts on other platforms...

www.snipershide.com