Sure, but you are buying a 20" vs their 14" barrel and god knows how much heavier your rifle is. Apples and Oranges. Both fruit, but very different beyond that.
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Rifle Scopes Long Range Scope that can transition to short range?
- Thread starter 1911addict42
- Start date
Sure, but you are buying a 20" vs their 14" barrel and god knows how much heavier your rifle is. Apples and Oranges. Both fruit, but very different beyond that.
Why am I getting the feeling that this an Antifa member trying to spec out equipment?
It sure seems like it now that it’s true colors have come out
Jesus...someone has a slightly differing opinion then someone and they get shit on. Everyone is a snow flake when it comes to politics.
Please forgive this off-topic post in a scope thread...
Polarization is a huge problem. If you don’t agree with lefty politicizes you’re an intolerant, fascist racist; however, even on the conservative side there’s similar absolutism. In college I was considered ultra conservative, but I frankly had more in common with ultra liberals than just about anyone else. Just look at it from the lens of one common issue: rights restoration.
When ultra liberals talk about rights restoration they largely focus on voting rights: They believe convicted felons who have served their time deserve the right to vote. Often in conservative circles we view this as totally unacceptable; however, we demand second amendment rights restoration for certain felons largely due to how this application of the law can end an individuals access to firearms for their entire life, typically over a youthful mistake. At the end of the day people on both sides of the political spectrum are after similar things differing only in implementation.
Does that negate that the left is trying to destroy this country? No. I just believe we have things in common and if we could ever spend some time listening to each other maybe we could get something done. A black gay Jewish weed farmer has just as right to protect his life, Liberty, and property with a machine gun as anyone else does.
It’s par for the course at this point- I knew what’s up when I posted that thread.
It’s ok... keyboard warriors aren’t intimidating.
I’ll take input from guys like you that have something to offer.
People are so angry. Not sure if it’s always been that way, or if it’s simply more visible with access to social media.
I completely agree with you on your post-
the only thing I’d add is that the time spent listening to each other rules out fascists and other hateful, racist people. They don’t get a seat at the table and their voice does need to be smothered. Freedom of speech does not apply to evil and hate.
Definitely a radical leftist
Lol. And there it is. All this masquerading around and you showed your hand, got beat, and now you are resorting to calling us all racists and fascists and saying our rights need to be taken away.
Go back to moms basement.
Change the cartridge to 6.5 Creed. Less recoil and wind drift which you will appreciate later.
Put a March 3-24x52 with FML T1 on it. Plus a laser but don't go outside the house with the laser attached or post a photo of it on the Hide.
Definitely don't associate with Eric Cartman or Phillip the IOR guy.
Put a March 3-24x52 with FML T1 on it. Plus a laser but don't go outside the house with the laser attached or post a photo of it on the Hide.
Definitely don't associate with Eric Cartman or Phillip the IOR guy.
This thread feels like it’s straight out of arfcom. Well except for the good advice our members have given.
OP, what folks are saying is that you’re looking for an imperfect solution. What constitutes a tool that works well at 1k vs one at close quarters are two different things.
You want a range toy that is fun to shoot at 1k. Many of us can easily shoot a man sized target at 1k with a quality 8x. But I’d personally prefer more mag.
A higher mag scope will suck at close range and likely be heavy.
If you want a one size fits all, get a higher mag 3-15 with smaller objective and piggy back a red dot on the rifle. Or get a Razor 1-10 and the like.
Either way, you’re gonna be limited on one side of the spectrum.
OP, what folks are saying is that you’re looking for an imperfect solution. What constitutes a tool that works well at 1k vs one at close quarters are two different things.
You want a range toy that is fun to shoot at 1k. Many of us can easily shoot a man sized target at 1k with a quality 8x. But I’d personally prefer more mag.
A higher mag scope will suck at close range and likely be heavy.
If you want a one size fits all, get a higher mag 3-15 with smaller objective and piggy back a red dot on the rifle. Or get a Razor 1-10 and the like.
Either way, you’re gonna be limited on one side of the spectrum.
Just because you can hit a man size target at 1k with a 10x doesn’t mean that’s all you should want. Ok got that part out of the way.
You ever golfed? Know anything about golf? What you’re trying to do is play a round of golf with a 5 wood. Why? Why would you do that? It’s not like a full set of clubs has to be that expensive. Use the right tool for the job.
I only read a few posts on this thread, because it got stupid real quick, but there’s a few things wrong with this from the start.
1) short of having a Scar 17/20 because greatest BATTLE (read: go to war) rifle ever, WHY TF would anyone choose .308 in 2020? 5 years ago I went to my first long range school, 20 guys there, 6 of them had .308 and at the beginning of the week they didn’t believe the hype of the 6.5 cartridges. By the end of the week not a single .308 guy was feeling good about his decision to bring that fucking relic of a cartridge to this school. 850ish yards in wind with match ammo and serious glass was where that bullet went sub sonic and got its salad tossed. Meanwhile the rest of us are banging steel at 12-1400 yards in some pretty decent central Washington wind. It’s old fucking tech, the rounds aren’t cheaper, there’s literally NOTHING redeeming about it compared to a 6.5
More recoil and Shittier ballistics, in every aspect that matters at distance. You wanna hit 1k? Sure you can do it. Have you thought about the consistency in which you want to hit 1k? Lest you’re on the same flat range every time with wind flags and solid dope it’s not gonna happen as often as you’d like to think it would.
here’s the caveat: if you just wanna do the lr thing every every now and again to say you did, ok fine whatever. I’ve hit 1k with an sbr 6.8 SPC and an acog just to show someone that it can be done, but it doesn’t make it a good choice.
next: 308 is a terrible fucking idea for HD Unless you live alone, a mile from your nearest neighbor, it’s absolutely stupid.
We haven’t even talked about the ridiculousness of shouldering a 15lb 20” barreled semi auto rifle while you’ve got an uninvited guest in your house.
Lmao gtfo of here. Get an 870 mag, put a few goodies on and it leave it by the bedside. Remember the “d” in HD stands for defense, not offense. You’re not likely to perch up on your roof and pick off dudes when someone has just kicked your fuckin door in.
Moral of the story. Don’t mess around with 308 as you’re only lr gun, and don’t use a lr gun for HD.
If you do it right, you don’t have to worry about making a compromise with a 10x optic that tries to pull dual duty. Have you ever tried to shoot a deer you just jumped in the woods at 10 yards with even your scope dailed down to 2.5? Now imagine that deer is running AT you.
Red dot + shotgun= HD.
Literally any decent optic that goes to 15x (or more) + 6.5 (creedmoor if you want great factory ammo for the same price as 308) = long range set up.
now you’re golfing 18 with a driver and putter.
You ever golfed? Know anything about golf? What you’re trying to do is play a round of golf with a 5 wood. Why? Why would you do that? It’s not like a full set of clubs has to be that expensive. Use the right tool for the job.
I only read a few posts on this thread, because it got stupid real quick, but there’s a few things wrong with this from the start.
1) short of having a Scar 17/20 because greatest BATTLE (read: go to war) rifle ever, WHY TF would anyone choose .308 in 2020? 5 years ago I went to my first long range school, 20 guys there, 6 of them had .308 and at the beginning of the week they didn’t believe the hype of the 6.5 cartridges. By the end of the week not a single .308 guy was feeling good about his decision to bring that fucking relic of a cartridge to this school. 850ish yards in wind with match ammo and serious glass was where that bullet went sub sonic and got its salad tossed. Meanwhile the rest of us are banging steel at 12-1400 yards in some pretty decent central Washington wind. It’s old fucking tech, the rounds aren’t cheaper, there’s literally NOTHING redeeming about it compared to a 6.5
More recoil and Shittier ballistics, in every aspect that matters at distance. You wanna hit 1k? Sure you can do it. Have you thought about the consistency in which you want to hit 1k? Lest you’re on the same flat range every time with wind flags and solid dope it’s not gonna happen as often as you’d like to think it would.
here’s the caveat: if you just wanna do the lr thing every every now and again to say you did, ok fine whatever. I’ve hit 1k with an sbr 6.8 SPC and an acog just to show someone that it can be done, but it doesn’t make it a good choice.
next: 308 is a terrible fucking idea for HD Unless you live alone, a mile from your nearest neighbor, it’s absolutely stupid.
We haven’t even talked about the ridiculousness of shouldering a 15lb 20” barreled semi auto rifle while you’ve got an uninvited guest in your house.
Lmao gtfo of here. Get an 870 mag, put a few goodies on and it leave it by the bedside. Remember the “d” in HD stands for defense, not offense. You’re not likely to perch up on your roof and pick off dudes when someone has just kicked your fuckin door in.
Moral of the story. Don’t mess around with 308 as you’re only lr gun, and don’t use a lr gun for HD.
If you do it right, you don’t have to worry about making a compromise with a 10x optic that tries to pull dual duty. Have you ever tried to shoot a deer you just jumped in the woods at 10 yards with even your scope dailed down to 2.5? Now imagine that deer is running AT you.
Red dot + shotgun= HD.
Literally any decent optic that goes to 15x (or more) + 6.5 (creedmoor if you want great factory ammo for the same price as 308) = long range set up.
now you’re golfing 18 with a driver and putter.
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I read most or rather...some of these. I shoot a NF 7x35 in 22 benchrest, 22 F Class. Both are 40 to 100 yards., it will Parallax downtown to about 25 yards. I have shot a 22 F Class at 200 and we hope to go further. Yes it's more expensive but it's one HELL of a scope and you'll Never regret it. Hope this helps
My thoughts:
First off this is a good write up, and you do have me second guessing my decision, as do others.
The idea behind my JP build was to have a rifle with similar use of a SCAR and POF Revolution; an all around powerful rifle. It’s heavier than those, but I’m strong enough to handle it for short durations and it should take recoil...
I don’t hunt. I also seriously doubt I’ll ever be a serious long range shooter, probably nothing more than some fun at the range. For that reason, I decided on .308 for its sheer power and anti material capabilities.
It sounds cliche and kinda stupid but it’s meant as the gun I pull out when SHTF and I want a Rambo gun. I’ve considered adding the Tavor 7 to that .308 caliber family, supposed to be a great battle rifle.
That said, I am wondering if this is the right build to even do all this...
For home defense, I’ve got a 300 blackout with subsonic ammo and a Red Dot.
Attachments
While I won’t apologize, I will say I didn’t intend to butt hurt all the 308 only rifle shooters that might read this.
You’re probably dead eye Dick with your 308, but just be honest with yourselves. If it’s windy (when is it not?) you’d be an even more dead eye’d Dick with a faster, higher BC bullet because science.
You’re probably dead eye Dick with your 308, but just be honest with yourselves. If it’s windy (when is it not?) you’d be an even more dead eye’d Dick with a faster, higher BC bullet because science.
The 308 doesn’t make anything any more dead than a 6.5CM would, at any range. If the proverbial shit were ever to actually hit the proverbial fan grab your favorite Chinese AK, a few cans of 7.62x39 and go full Rambo until the drones get you.
The drones WILL get you, if something in the water doesn’t first.
The drones WILL get you, if something in the water doesn’t first.
I am still wondering why so many top tier companies still make the .38 rifles in their top tier guns- including Larue, KAC, FN SCAR, JP, GAP... list goes on.
i agree with lots of your points, but...
because.
this has been covered, but under normal circumstance, i could get .308 M80 ball for under $0.50/rd. if i tried hard enough.
if SHTF, are you gonna be able to scavenge 6.5CM from one of the abandoned farm houses, or is .308 more likely?
if we have to fight the UN on our own soil, they'll bring ammo for us to use to kill more of them.
if you can shoot a .308, you can shoot a 6.5CM, but not the other way around.
do you practice shooting free throws with a women's basketball because it is easier?
i can go on...
i started from scratch with a .308 gas gun and the first time i went to a real range, i hit everything i shot at from 100-609 yards.
sometimes i wonder why people claim it is so hard.
i have been shooting primarily da/sa handguns (sig) for 30+ years, and honestly i think that is harder.
/that gas gun is a Scar 20S, so props for that!
//actually, i did miss a 12" hanger (what was left of it) once from 609 yards, but only because i didn't wait for it to stop swinging. (newb)
we actually covered that. maybe if i smoked a meth/pcp wet daddy i could manage it.
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Shooting free throws = shooting at 600 yards (or any range where your bullet is still supersonic) . I’m talking about shooting deep 3’s (or past the range where your 308 is no longer super sonic).
If you wonder why people say it’s “so hard” take your 308 and your ballistic calculator and figure out when your bullet transitions. Then go shoot that distance. Ego = checked.
Pile up enough of the ammo you need in your own farmhouse (while you can) so you don’t have to worry about wandering out and scavenging other farm houses. If we’re going to play make believe: scavenging is where they’re gonna get ya. Stay home, next to your cache.
Also, why have you run out of ammo?
I’ve got 40k rounds of real (not 22lr) ammo. The odds I shoot all that up and don’t take ONE to the face? Zero.
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By the way, I acowanted the
if the JP was offered as an 18” with the Creedmoor I would have done that... but the min barrel length is 22” and obviously the longer barrel is more appropriate for the 6.5That is a very large unwieldy gun...
I
would rather give up that last few hundred yards of extra range for a much more manageable gun. Maybe that’s because I don’t know shit lol
good points, but everyone can't shoot 1000 whenever they want, or even when they want.
the max at that range was 600 and even that is hours away.
<1000 is not irrelevant although perhaps that is JMO.
if your prime goal with your gun is to hit something at 1000 yards, you are right about 6.5CM, but then there are much better options than that, isn't there?
my goal is still to hit something at 1000 yards, at or near sea level, with my 20" barrel, 1:12 twist and 175gr. FGMM.
while i don't expect to shoot groups at that range, i think i can make hits if the target is big enough
anyway, just biding time now for the 6,5CM Scar 20 barrels to be available so i have a backup plan if i am too stupid to figure out how other people have done it already (or i just suck too much even with good dope).
btw, i didn't buy the scar to shoot long range, i bought it because i could still purchase a semi-auto rifle here, i wanted the most capable rifle i could afford.
with handgun and shotguns, i don't need a rifle for self defense since i don't live on a ranch in south africa (or anywhere).
this rifle is both an exercise of my rights while i still have them, and the means to defend those freedoms if i have to.
god help us if that ever actually happens, but if it does, i won't be shooting at anything 1000 yards away unless it is a convoy of communists.
it isn't my hobby, obviously, i just want to be able to shoot it since i have it, and i am serious enough about that.
this is another forum member.
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You’re not shooting an 18” 308 JP unsupported any more accurately than an unsupported 22” 6.5.
in fact, you’re not shooting ANY gun accurately while unsupported, past...a hundred MAYBE 200 yards.
in fact, you’re not shooting ANY gun accurately while unsupported, past...a hundred MAYBE 200 yards.
6.5cm isn’t the end all be all for long range. I use that caliber as example Bc OP said he might want to shoot 1k and It’s similarly priced to 175 fgmm, widely available, and better ballistically in every single way.
if We’re talking surplus ammo as a priority, then we’re also not talking about shooting 1k yards, and if we’re talking about surplus ammo as a priority AND shtf make believe times, then why are we talking about a heavy ass precision 308? Grab that Chinese piece of shit ak and some x39 and have a ball till you take one in the face.
if We’re talking surplus ammo as a priority, then we’re also not talking about shooting 1k yards, and if we’re talking about surplus ammo as a priority AND shtf make believe times, then why are we talking about a heavy ass precision 308? Grab that Chinese piece of shit ak and some x39 and have a ball till you take one in the face.
Scars of any flavor are literally my favorite semi auto rifles ever. As i mentioned in my first post, if SCAR is the reason you have 308 as your lr toy, disregard all my poo poo on the that cartridge. I run a suppressed 16 (should be able to find some 5.56 in those farm houses once I’ve shot up my 10k rounds cache of 5.56 right?) and I want a 17 in a baaaad way (even better now that 6.5 barrels might actually be attainable)
I can’t imagine a SCAR owner coming into a thread about precision rifles, shitting all over everyone’s salad like they’re a fucking CrossFit whore for SCAR’s, and then saying the SCAR 17 they don’t own is a better long range gun than a JP AR-10 in .308. I guess no one told this hoe most SCAR 17’s are minute-of-barn guns.
hey don't get me wrong. i encourage anyone that wants to pick up an AR or AK so they can run around to do so.
i'll provide cover fire for you guys from here.
i can probably hit shit with my dad's .308 lever gun further than i could hit something with an AK.
besides, unless i have to bug out, there is no way i am going to run out of .308 serbian m80 or FGMM (168gr or 175gr) in my lifetime or the rifle's.
/maybe if those zombies get over that wall.
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false.I didn’t say it was a better long range gun than a jp10. I said it’s the only semi auto 308 I’d own over a 6.5 semi auto. Let me spell it out. If I HAD TO HAVE A 308 semi auto, I choose scar 17 with a precision barrel and super scar trigger. If I am buying a JP 10? I’m getting one with the 6.5.
got it?
homeboy assumes that scar 16 I own is the only rifle I have? I’m on snipershide (not ARF) Bc I’m a LR guy first and foremost.
you can get a 6.5CM barrel for the 17S from 11-20" from deadshot or even the entire assembly. no personal experience though.
FN SCAR 17 Barrels |
deadshotbarrels.com
I don’t know enough to have an opinion but this is pretty funny and helps me not feel as shitTy about the JP decision I made
The second “nice” rifle I bought was a JP in 6.5G. I wouldn’t sway anyone away from this manufacturer. If you want/are able to only ever shoot 600 yards, and want a 308 and I’ll be happy for you. At that distance it literally doesn’t matter what short action cartridge you use, provided the other ingredients for a modest amount of precision are there.
Let me remind everyone the OP mentioned right off the bat he possibly wanted to go to 1k.
This is where my experience would suggest to that person that a 6.5 could be a better choice for that endeavor. You can have success at 1k with a 308. Tens of thousands of people have done it, myself included. I just know that you can have MOAR success at that distance with a 6.5cm. That’s all.
i never should have brought up the scar 17, it was a distraction from the main point.
Let me remind everyone the OP mentioned right off the bat he possibly wanted to go to 1k.
This is where my experience would suggest to that person that a 6.5 could be a better choice for that endeavor. You can have success at 1k with a 308. Tens of thousands of people have done it, myself included. I just know that you can have MOAR success at that distance with a 6.5cm. That’s all.
i never should have brought up the scar 17, it was a distraction from the main point.
Yes 1,000 yards would be the max range I’d attempt for my purposes. Pretty much just for fun. Sounds clear there’s a very big difference between 6.5 and .308 long range.
How significant is the difference between 6.5 and .308 short range? Say, out to 300 yards. Difference in terms of damage, knockdown power etc
How about shooting through cars and walls?
By the way I don’t hunt, but trekking the woods with a 22” barrel gun sounds like a bitch. 18” tough too I’m sure, but more manageable.
Btw, a thousand yards isn’t just something you “try”. That would be like “trying” out 315 # on the bench when you haven’t been to a gym in a while. You’ll most likely pile a lot of projectiles into the dirt if you just casually want to shoot 1k. Being competent at that distance is an endeavor.
Speaking of 6.5 and SCARS, I’ve never seen it before but they just popped up here.
www.omahaoutdoors.com
FN SCAR | FN SCAR For Sale - Omaha Outdoors
Find your FN SCAR for sale. Find these outstanding rifles chambered in 5.56 or 7.62 NATO and available online in Black or FDE.
www.omahaoutdoors.com
You’re giving too much hassle to 4” of barrel length. I hike miles up and down mountains with a 26” magnum rifle. Sometimes it even has a suppressor on the end. The suppressor kinda sucks when the snow is deep, but without it on I don’t even notice. When it’s slung properly you wouldn’t know there was an extra 4” of barrel there unless you unzipped your pants and measured.
Also, 18” of 308 is going to make 1k a bit tougher vs a longer barrel. Would have to pull up the calculator but I’m guessing that a 175MK bullet starts to transition at 800 yards near sea level out of an 18” barrel. Specific powder charge dependent.
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if youre comparing equal weight bullets, from the same length barrel, say a 147 gr. 6.5 and a 147 gr. .308, the .308 will leave the muzzle moving faster but will slow down more quickly due to higher drag from more frontal area and a worse BC, the .308 will maintain higher kinetic energy and slightly higher velocity out to ~275-300 yds but will then be surpassed in both velocity and energy. The .308 will drop more and require more attention to the wind meaning it’s harder to shoot well at longer distances without training and practice. The creed is a good round, the .308 is still useful and can be used subsonic, you probably won’t be able to loot either from your neighbor, and neither round will make your pecker any longer or make you a better shot.
to add to this strange discussion about long range home defense, and this should be obvious, a subsonic 225 gr. .300 blk and a subsonic 225 gr..308 will behave identically in your house or anywhere else,case size is irrelevant because the velocity is capped by the speed of sound. you could use either and shoot through the same amount of drywall and innocent neighbors, load some .308 subs and defend away. Joking aside, an 18” smooth bore with buckshot or just about any handgun with hollow points is the ticket indoors.
to add to this strange discussion about long range home defense, and this should be obvious, a subsonic 225 gr. .300 blk and a subsonic 225 gr..308 will behave identically in your house or anywhere else,case size is irrelevant because the velocity is capped by the speed of sound. you could use either and shoot through the same amount of drywall and innocent neighbors, load some .308 subs and defend away. Joking aside, an 18” smooth bore with buckshot or just about any handgun with hollow points is the ticket indoors.
except the subsonic 308 likely wouldn’t cycle reliably, and the 300BO would, assuming it was set up properly.
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