Sidearms & Scatterguns Long Range Shotgun Advice

[beetroot]

I'll preface this by saying I am 99% a rifle shooter and only use my shotgun when attempting to shoot waterfowl during the hunting season.
Historically I've found shotguns to be kinda hopeless for hunting anything other than birds on the wing or short range small game, preferring to use a 22lr or 17hmr.
I'm not in the USA so things like turkey hunting aren't a normal thing for me, so sorry if this is a simple question.

Basically wanting to know what choke and/or shot combinations would be best for extended range shooting, looks like most guys are using a pretty small shot size (5 or 6) for turkeys and keeping the range short, I'd like to be able to shoot a turkey/rabbit/peacock reliably out to 60-70 yards if that's possible.
Effectively looking for 22lr range that is capable of shooting through light brush/scrub/foliage and still be safe for shooting high angle shots (no slugs etc)

I've been asked by a land owner to help clean up some peacocks that have over taken his property, I've tried a few different guns and my 870 is definitely the best option (mostly due to safety reasons otherwise 223 would be the go) but have a few issues where trying to shoot them through brush/scrub where a the foliage seems to deflect a lot of the shot, or am encountering them at slightly longer distances.
Peacocks seem to be a pretty tough bird soaking up 22lr even at close range, but #2 steel did the trick if I had a clear shot.

 

[FCS]

#4 lead shot , # 2 lead shot, #4 buckshot, # 2 buckshot.
1 1/2 of #4 lead shot worked well on jackrabbits in scrub brush, 50-60 yards out as I recall but was 20 years back…might not be most accurate memory.

What shot size and oz available?

 

[beetroot]

#4 lead shot , # 2 lead shot, #4 buckshot, # 2 buckshot.
1 1/2 of #4 lead shot worked well on jackrabbits in scrub brush, 50-60 yards out as I recall but was 20 years back…might not be most accurate memory.

What shot size and oz available?

#4 buckshot would be awesome but I've never seen it for sale, only ever seen 00.
All sizes of lead is available, #2 steel is all I have at the moment but 1 1/2 #4 lead looks like it's readily available.

Choke wise, should I go tighter than a full choke?
Looks like I could go extra-full but might struggle to find a turkey choke.

 

[drglock]

If you can get 3” or 3.5” #4 buck or Heavyshot in T size it should do the job. I use both of these when I carry a shotgun for coyotes and have taken coyotes at 50+ yards with both using a xtra full choke. In a 3” shell there’s 41 pellets of #4 buck and I believe they’re .24 caliber pellets. A 3” T-shot has 66 pellets in it and is .20 caliber pellets.

 

[FCS]

1 1/2 oz of #4 w/modified choke is what I recall using on jackrabbits.
#4 or #2 lead should do better than #2 steel by a fair margin.
Never shot peacocks but I’d probably stay modified, maybe go to a full.

 

[cas6969]

Xtra-full and a turkey choke are going to be the same thing +/- . But with that sort of thing, what works best is a matter of trial and error.

Without turkey hunting as a factor in the ammo market, you won’t have the best options unless non steel waterfowl loads are available. Guys use 4 to 6 shot turkey hunting because it retains energy. But with TSS shot you can get away with 7-8-9s (but you’re also talking $7 to $12 a round)

 

[FCS]

IF all your shots are going to be 60-70 yards, I’d go full choke.
If only the occasional shot @ 60-70 yds, majority 40-45 yds and in then I’d stay with a modified choke.
YMMV

 

[beetroot]

Xtra-full and a turkey choke are going to be the same thing +/- . But with that sort of thing, what works best is a matter of trial and error.

Without turkey hunting as a factor in the ammo market, you won’t have the best options unless non steel waterfowl loads are available. Guys use 4 to 6 shot turkey hunting because it retains energy. But with TSS shot you can get away with 7-8-9s (but you’re also talking $7 to $12 a round)

There is upland game non-steel for phesants and quail, plenty of that available.

I see that I might actually be able to get #4 buck, don't think it'll be 3" 41 pellet though.
I'll buy some and see how it patterns, would just need to remember to not take any high angle shots with the buck....
Not sure I can can get anything bigger than BB unless jump up to the #4 buck.

I think I'll try some #4 buck and #4 lead, see how they pattern with the full choke.
I'm hopping a nice tight pattern will allow me to punch trough light foliage at close range and also work well at distance.

I always assumed that going for the biggest pellet size possible (#1, BB, T etc) would be best for longer range shots so was suprised to see all the turkey loads being #5 or #6, that to me seemed like a quail/phesant load.

 

[NewsShooter]

Headshots with the 22?

 

[sboone]

It's expensive, but #7 and #9 tungsten loads are becoming pretty popular for turkey and waterfowl around here. Lots of guys claiming better patterns and lethality at distance. Turkeys taken with 410 bore at 40+ yds are becoming more common place.

Once you go bigger than #2 shot, a tighter choke is not gonna be your friend more than likely. Most full chokes aren't rated for larger shot than that, particularly with steel.

 

[beetroot]

Headshots with the 22?

That would be my preferrance but they won't sit still, when you have less than 1 second to take the shot through brush the 22 just wasn't cutting it.

If the bastards would come out in the open I'd use my 260.

 

[beetroot]

Headshots with the 22?

Actually a suppressed AR in 300blk would be my preferred choice but my communist government said you don't need semi autos for pest control.

 

[Mbaysinger89]

Lead BB or T would be great. Plenty of power, more pellets, and a denser pattern. To see if you want to go modified or full, youre just going to have to pattern it. Full and BB usually works out well as long as its lead, you dont want to shove large steel shot thru a full choke.

 

[kwityurbeachn]

I have duck hunted much of the last 25 years and a 60 yards you might have an issue. I use heavy shot 3 1/2s with full choke and learned to typically let ‘em go beyond 50yds. If you are in any wind your pattern goes to crap at those distances. Maybe a rifled barrel with slugs might do better?

 

[hlee]

Concealment is your friend when bird hunting. Turkey hunters can get away with 5 or 6 shot because they are typically decoying the birds and using calls, well concealed, shooting at relatively close range, and generally taking head shots. I set my decoys at about 15 yards, expecting that the birds might hang up at around 30 yards. That is about my max comfortable shot with 6 shot and a mod or full choke. Yes, you can kill them further out, but the odds go down. Trying to punch through foliage with a load of shot is a recipe for heart ache. And, leave the steel at home unless it is required by law. Lead or "heavy shot" for big birds. Birds have great vision in general, and great color vision too. Camouflage and concealment. Slow movement. Get close. Shoot them in the head.

 

[beetroot]

Concealment is your friend when bird hunting. Turkey hunters can get away with 5 or 6 shot because they are typically decoying the birds and using calls, well concealed, shooting at relatively close range, and generally taking head shots. I set my decoys at about 15 yards, expecting that the birds might hang up at around 30 yards. That is about my max comfortable shot with 6 shot and a mod or full choke. Yes, you can kill them further out, but the odds go down. Trying to punch through foliage with a load of shot is a recipe for heart ache. And, leave the steel at home unless it is required by law. Lead or "heavy shot" for big birds. Birds have great vision in general, and great color vision too. Camouflage and concealment. Slow movement. Get close. Shoot them in the head.

I'm not sure the terrain is particularly suited to getting camoed up and just waiting for them. It would work for getting one or two but am needing to try cull them all, so they'll inevitably run into the thicker bush.

The shooting is very much like a pheasant shoot with the birds hiding in thick blackberry bushes, but they also seem to run away rather than just flying off.
Not really sure how to explain the terrain, it's commonly what you'll find on farmland in my area but not really anything like what you have in the US (atleast to my limited knowledge) maybe ill take some pictures next time (in case someone is interested).

It's a weird type of shooting where I need to both take a snap shot at close range yet get a few longer range shots, hence the reason for this thread.
I'd hoped I could just lie in wait with my 223 and shoot them from distance when they come out of hiding but doesn't seem like I'd get many opportunities like that and there is a safety risk as not always a safe backstop for stop centerfire rounds.

My LGS sold out of the #4 buckshot but has ordered me some in.
I bought some 1 1/2oz lead #2 and BB that I'll test with my full choke and see how it patterns.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

If you can get 3” or 3.5” #4 buck or Heavyshot in T size it should do the job. I use both of these when I carry a shotgun for coyotes and have taken coyotes at 50+ yards with both using a xtra full choke. In a 3” shell there’s 41 pellets of #4 buck and I believe they’re .24 caliber pellets. A 3” T-shot has 66 pellets in it and is .20 caliber pellets.

This.

HeavyShot T shot and the discontinued Carlson’s “dead coyote” choke have been beyond amazing.

I can also affirm 50+ yd shots being “easy.”

I also run #4 Buck when I don’t have T-shot

 

[hlee]

I'm not sure the terrain is particularly suited to getting camoed up and just waiting for them. It would work for getting one or two but am needing to try cull them all, so they'll inevitably run into the thicker bush.

The shooting is very much like a pheasant shoot with the birds hiding in thick blackberry bushes, but they also seem to run away rather than just flying off.
Not really sure how to explain the terrain, it's commonly what you'll find on farmland in my area but not really anything like what you have in the US (atleast to my limited knowledge) maybe ill take some pictures next time (in case someone is interested).

It's a weird type of shooting where I need to both take a snap shot at close range yet get a few longer range shots, hence the reason for this thread.
I'd hoped I could just lie in wait with my 223 and shoot them from distance when they come out of hiding but doesn't seem like I'd get many opportunities like that and there is a safety risk as not always a safe backstop for stop centerfire rounds.

My LGS sold out of the #4 buckshot but has ordered me some in.
I bought some 1 1/2oz lead #2 and BB that I'll test with my full choke and see how it patterns.

Treat it like a driven Guinea shoot. Get a bunch of guys to walk through the area. Get another group to stand where the birds are likely to try to escape. The first group walks through and beats the brush to flush the birds. The second group shoots the birds as they flush.

Otherwise, get a rifle and make shots when you have a safe backdrop. A shotgun is not a long distance weapon, and “long range shotgunning” is a misnomer. Shooting through brush doesn’t work well with a shotgun.

 

[beetroot]

So I patterned my gun at 60meters, with predictable results.
Remington 870 with full choke, cardboard is 32" wide 40" high.
The red marked shot is #2 lead, blue is BB.

You can see there is some pretty big patches with zero shot, definitely not tight enough for a headshot on a turkey, probably just end up with a wounded bird.

#4 shot would be better i guess with more more pellets but can't imagine it'll be much more effective.
Guess I'll try find a tighter choke and see how that goes.

 

[Mbaysinger89]

Thats definately not great. You could try a wad stipping non constricting choke. Here in the US its Patternmaster.

 

[458win]

Can you get TSS 18g? 7 or 8 shot will flatten anything within 80yrds.

 

[beetroot]

Can you get TSS 18g? 7 or 8 shot will flatten anything within 80yrds.

Not many non-steel options around here.
Maybe in the game bird season there would be some but that ended a few months ago.

I've not really looked in tungsten or other types of shot, looks like #8 TSS would be well worth considering if I can find it.

 

[264win]

It sounds like you will be shooting at moving birds, if so planning on a headshot is not realistic. And if you are shooting a bird bigger than a goose in the body, you need good sized shot BB or T would be good.

With large steel shot you should not use a full choke, very possible to damage your gun. With lead shot full choke is perfect

 

[beetroot]

It sounds like you will be shooting at moving birds, if so planning on a headshot is not realistic. And if you are shooting a bird bigger than a goose in the body, you need good sized shot BB or T would be good.

With large steel shot you should not use a full choke, very possible to damage your gun. With lead shot full choke is perfect

Perhaps I haven't explained very well what I am trying to achieve.

The shooting of moving birds is far more likely to be at close range so would be going for body shots but also seems to involve some snap shooting somewhat through brush, or at least small openings through brush.

My dream would be having a pattern that allowed me to comfortably take game out to 60 odd meters, I appreciate this is a long distance using bead sights but 60m wouldn't be the normal distance I'd shoot. It'd also be for more general shooting rather than purely trying to headshot turkeys/peacocks.

The thing that has always turned by away from shotguns is the relavtive short range nature of them.
If it wasn't for game bird shooting my shotgun would never leave the safe as Id rather use 22lr or 17hmr for varmint shooting.
If I can stretch the range out to 60m odd then a shotgun would be far more appealing.

Since starting this thread I've gone trawling the net for all manner of info about shotgun shooting, if I'm able to meet my (somewhat arbitrary) 60m goal I see a Beretta 1301 in my future...

 

[Mbaysinger89]

Nickel Plated F looks promsing

I quite recently got started hand loading shot shells. Many thanks to Bob and Keith for their help and advice! Today I fired my own shotgun loads for the first time. Did some pattern testing. Shot three loads, HS BB, lead T and nickel plated F, through three chokes each, Mod, Turkey Extra...

www.predatormastersforums.com

Here is some info from when I first started loading SG for coyote. Theres also some good info on HSS on there.

 

[Kramer93]

TSS is what you are looking for. It's not cheap at all, but I kill turkeys with #9's here in the US at 70 yards consistently with a 20ga. 8's will flatten any bird inside 80, and you won't have any trouble getting them to pattern. You might have to handload them. Buckshot, T's, lead 2's, any steel, or really anything else won't have the pellet count to hold a good pattern at that range when trying to kill a bird. Coyotes have a much larger kill zone. TSS here is around $50/lb, but if you need to kill birds at long range, it's the best option by far.

 

[n2ishun]

This is gonna sound strange to some of you.
We get the longest shots out of 28 gauge and #6 shot.....sometimes #4, depends on shell manufacturer.
I know I've shot more shotgun loads than most having run a upland bird lodge for a while.
It's always the guys with the 28's that can reach out and kill a Phez at 75 or more yards.
If you ever get a chance, ask Scott Carlson from Carlson chokes, he's just up the road a ways and he's a common sight at our lodge.
He shoots a 28 when he's here.
If you've got one, try it, it will surprise you.

 

[beetroot]

This is gonna sound strange to some of you.
We get the longest shots out of 28 gauge and #6 shot.....sometimes #4, depends on shell manufacturer.
I know I've shot more shotgun loads than most having run a upland bird lodge for a while.
It's always the guys with the 28's that can reach out and kill a Phez at 75 or more yards.
If you ever get a chance, ask Scott Carlson from Carlson chokes, he's just up the road a ways and he's a common sight at our lodge.
He shoots a 28 when he's here.
If you've got one, try it, it will surprise you.

Is it just that 28ga holds a tighter patter than a 20 or 12?
I don't know anyone that shots a 28ga, a quick look online shows they are pretty rare with very few for sale new or used.