Long time lurker looking for feedback re accuracy

[tyrorifleman308]

Up front, I want to highlight that I have no experience with precision rifles, or precision shooting, so take that into consideration when reading the following...

1) I understand that most barrels will favor a specific load and shoot that one particular load much better than other loads. Do high end barrels (e.g., Lilja, Krieger, Noveske, etc) exhibit the preceding or do they tend to shoot better "across the board" with different loads in comparison to other barrels?

2) How unrealistic is it to expect near MOA performance out of ammunition that has been designed for maximum terminal ballistics as opposed to accuracy? Loads, for example, like: Hornady 75 gr TAP, Speer Gold Dot 64 gr, BH 50 gr TSX, Federal 62 gr Fusion JSP, etc.

3) What are your thoughts taking the above into consideration when seeing what this upper (16" Rock Creek bbl, 1x8, Wylde chamber, 5R rifling, nitrided with FF DD Omega) is doing at 100 yds a couple of different loads:

(By the way, those are Hornady's 75gr practice rounds, which are steel cased)







4) Would a 16" SS Krieger, Lilja or Noveske do any better than the above given the same ammo?

5) Seems like the upper does very well the BH 77 gr rounds.

 

[264Charlie]

Re: Long time lurker looking for feedback re accuracy

I find that the chambering job has a lot more to due with accuracy than the barrel. This assumes the barrel is not complete crap.

High-end barrels have better chambering jobs more often than not. AR folks tend to talk barrels and disregard the chambering or reamer effect on accuracy. Simply changing the lead angle can have a huge impact on a rifles tolerance for loads.

When dealing with factory ammo your gun might shoot any of them well but you have the best chance with MATCH ammo. The difference of speed well be so small you will never notice it on target (in terms of drift, drop or stopping power).

A lot of people we see one round the drops x inches over the other but when you factor the % of error it's so small you will never notice it when shooting.

 

[tyrorifleman308]

Re: Long time lurker looking for feedback re accuracy

I agree about the chambering aspect, albeit that is based on my very limited knowledge.

 

[sawgunner2001]

Re: Long time lurker looking for feedback re accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tyrorifleman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1) I understand that most barrels will favor a specific load and shoot that one particular load much better than other loads. Do high end barrels (e.g., Lilja, Krieger, Noveske, etc) exhibit the preceding or do they tend to shoot better "across the board" with different loads in comparison to other barrels?</div></div>

Custom "aftermarket" barrels will "typically" shoot better across the board in my experience. That being said, they will still have their ammo/load preferences.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tyrorifleman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2) How unrealistic is it to expect near MOA performance out of ammunition that has been designed for maximum terminal ballistics as opposed to accuracy? Loads, for example, like: Hornady 75 gr TAP, Speer Gold Dot 64 gr, BH 50 gr TSX, Federal 62 gr Fusion JSP, etc.</div></div>

I don't necessarily think it is unrealistic at all. That comes with the caveat of you may have to try several different ones before you find a winner.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tyrorifleman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3) What are your thoughts taking the above into consideration when seeing what this upper (16" Rock Creek upper, 1x8, Wylde chamber, 5R rifling, nitrided, FF DD Omega) is doing at 100 yds a couple of different loads:

(By the way, those are Hornady's 75gr practice rounds, which are steel cased)</div></div>

I think that's about par for the course. The rifle seems to shoot the 77gr Black Hills stuff just fine. You'll have to keep trying other types of ammo that exhibit preferential terminal ballistics till you find one that shoots to your accuracy standard.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tyrorifleman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">4) Would a 16" SS Krieger, Lilja or Noveske do any better than the above given the same ammo?
</div></div>

Maybe. Its a crap shoot. Again, your rifle as it currently sits is shooting pretty darn good with the BH 77gr stuff.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tyrorifleman308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">5) Seems like the upper does very well the BH 77 gr rounds.</div></div>

Agreed.

 

[tyrorifleman308]

Re: Long time lurker looking for feedback re accuracy

So, it appears that this barrel, when using BH 77 gr ammo, is holding its own against known quality SS barrels.

 

[sotexhill]

Re: Long time lurker looking for feedback re accuracy

Does ATC in your group descriptions = Average To Center (mean radius)?

 

[tyrorifleman308]

Re: Long time lurker looking for feedback re accuracy

Yep.

 

[tyrorifleman308]

Re: Long time lurker looking for feedback re accuracy

In looking through some other threads here, I've seen some rifles shoot some pretty damn small groups, .6 MOA or less. Impressive, but those are some pricey builds compared to my humble little set-up.

 

[BigJohn141]

Re: Long time lurker looking for feedback re accuracy

I think your setup is just fine. Rock makes some good barrels as you can see from the BH 77 group. My personal experience is the 77SMK factory loads shoot better out of my AR then the 75BTHP but it could just be the barrel I use. To be fair, 80VLD hand loads shoot amazing out of said barrel.

 

[BCP]

Re: Long time lurker looking for feedback re accuracy

^^^^^
What he said.

Start handloading with a proven formula (say 77smk or nosler and 24 varget) and practice more and you will be rewarded.

 

[tyrorifleman308]

Re: Long time lurker looking for feedback re accuracy

So, pretty much what I gather from this thread is:

1) I should be pleased that my upper is shooting the BH 77 round well, as it appears to be a SUB-MOA load outta my rifle.

2) It is the luck of the draw if a barrel will shoot SD-type ammo as well as MATCH ammo.

The upper I have in question was built to be DMR-type upper and it appears that with the BH 77 gr ammo it will fill that role.

 

[BigJohn141]

Re: Long time lurker looking for feedback re accuracy

Black hills is basically SD ammo in my opinion because it is basically the same stuff our guys across the pond shoot, mk262 mod 1 I believe. I have shot Hornady 5.56 TAP T2 75BTHP and it shoots very similar to the match, even the practice Horandy stuff is very close to the match stuff. I personally would be pleased with the rifle if it were mine so just do some precision shooting basics like breathing and trigger control research along with some trigger time and you can probably tighten those groups up a little more.

 

[tyrorifleman308]

Re: Long time lurker looking for feedback re accuracy

BigJohn141: I agree with you about now taking the time to just become a better shot with the set-up I have. This is what I hope to do this summer as I have access to a shooting spot that allows us to reach 500 yds.

Another observation I have seen with high quality SS barrels is that it appears that while they appear to favor a load like any other barrel that their ES (extreme spread) is more consistent with other rounds and not as pronounced as what my barrel's ES is with other loads. It's either BH 77 or nothing, as far as wringing out the max potential outta the upper.

 

[tyrorifleman308]

Re: Long time lurker looking for feedback re accuracy

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">^^^^^
What he said.

Start handloading with a proven formula (say 77smk or nosler and 24 varget) and practice more and you will be rewarded.
</div></div>

Does "24" mean 24 grains? And is Varget the preferred powder for shooting the heavier projectiles? I hope to get into reloading, sot this is VERY useful information for me.

 

[wolf10t]

Re: Long time lurker looking for feedback re accuracy

Before buying a new barrel, buy a better trigger. A quality adjustable trigger will lead to better shot grouping faster than a new barrel. Of course this is assuming a human is doing the shooting.

Greg