Looking for a 6mm cartridge for medium sized game

[CobraCharmer]

Hi folks,
I have been looking for some flavor of a 6mm build in a somewhat lighter rig and researching it has been nuts. There is a LOT of information out there and I just did not want to get lost in the clutter without some form of steering from the kind folks here.

I took the 7PRC out hunting a couple of times and while the performance from the 180gr Berger VLDs were stellar, i came away with the feeling that a 26" barrel and a 22 LB rifle is not necessarily needed for deer or for the occasional hogs around the property. Also, it was a bit of a workout lugging that thing around when combined with a backpack and dead animal. I would have been outright exhausted if it wasn't for my nephew (god bless that kid) who decided to help me out with the critter when i called him.

Ideally, here are some items that I was looking to put together:
1. 20 inch barrel or less in a M24 taper
2. Shooting suppressed
3. CDG Short Action
4. Manners MCS-T2A-GAP stock
5. Gen 3 Razor glass (I have one already)

Ideally i would like to keep the weight right around 12lbs but I have no idea if that is a pipe dream.

As always, I appreciate everyone's time and am all ears.

CC

 

[AccuSol-ERN]

A 243win has killed a metric shit ton of deer in the midwest for decades. So......I vote 6creed if you rely on factory ammo OR if you reload, something in that 85-110gr @3000-3200fps range that is boring reliable and components/tools are cheap and everywhere.

Ern

 

[Mandango39]

savage tactical desert or whatever it’s called is 26” and right at 10 pounds empty. The ruger American gen 2 will be 20” and right at 6.6 pounds threaded and empty. If you don’t mind waiting and don’t mind the thinner barrel, that could be an option.

If not, just build it.

 

[diggler1833]

M24 barrel taper and gen 3 Razor are going to put you well north of 12lbs in a hurry if you don't go ultralight with the action and stock.

I'd vote either .243 Win or 6mm Creed for the cartridge.

 

[264win]

Are you wanting a rifle more tailored for hunting or just a smaller tactical rifle ?
nothing wrong with the specs listed, but in 6mm of any flavor you could definitely go lighter on the barrel, scope and stock.

 

[st1650]

CDG ?
I’d do a 6 Dasher with the HRD AW kit and a smaller contour barrel.

 

[blkqi]

Fast twist 243 Winchester or 6 Creedmoor is what I'd be looking at. Or were you thinking magnum?

 

[Newbie2020]

6 creed is nearly the ideal mid sized game cartridge. It does everything the venerable whitetail reaper 243 win does well, and reliably shoots 108s to 1,500 yds better than the 243 ever could.

 

[Niles Coyote]

I ran a stock Remington 700 with 20" Varmint barrel and hinged floor plate in a hs preicion stock and a leupold mk4 in DNZ one-piece rings, it tipped the scales at 11.5 pounds.

A m24/m40 contour will at 1.25-1.5 pounds to that and a Razor gen 3 would add another 1.5 pounds.

Hope that helps.

for deer and hogs you should be good with just about any 6mm cartridge 6mm ARC to 6mm-06. Were it me and the action and mag would feed 6br without hiccups, that would be the direction I would go. But I dont know anything about CDG actions nor the type of mag you want to use.

If your buying factory ammo, 243 or creedmoor would be hard to beat and feeding will be a non-issue.

 

[CobraCharmer]

A 243win has killed a metric shit ton of deer in the midwest for decades. So......I vote 6creed if you rely on factory ammo OR if you reload, something in that 85-110gr @3000-3200fps range that is boring reliable and components/tools are cheap and everywhere.

Ern

I am a huge fan of Berger bullets. I was looking at the 105 Grain VLDs. I do reload and am learning along the way. My initial instinct was 6 Creed but I simply wasn't sure. If I can be anywhere near the 2800 - 3k fps neighborhood with a 105gr pill (not sure if I will get that in a 20" barrel), I am more than happy.

savage tactical desert or whatever it’s called is 26” and right at 10 pounds empty. The ruger American gen 2 will be 20” and right at 6.6 pounds threaded and empty. If you don’t mind waiting and don’t mind the thinner barrel, that could be an option.

If not, just build it.

I intend to build one, hence the list of items.

M24 barrel taper and gen 3 Razor are going to put you well north of 12lbs in a hurry if you don't go ultralight with the action and stock.

I'd vote either .243 Win or 6mm Creed for the cartridge.

Would it be sub 15lbs? I am ok with that as well. Not that it is that far away from 22lbs.

Are you wanting a rifle more tailored for hunting or just a smaller tactical rifle ?
nothing wrong with the specs listed, but in 6mm of any flavor you could definitely go lighter on the barrel, scope and stock.

Its more of a hybrid range rifle / hunt setup. Spotting impacts has been a remarkable eye opener for me, how light of a barrel can I get away with?

CDG ?
I’d do a 6 Dasher with the HRD AW kit and a smaller contour barrel.

The ARC Coup De Grace action. Do you forsee any issues with loading from a magazine with the 6 Dasher? I read somewhere that the mags would need to be tuned for that round.

Fast twist 243 Winchester or 6 Creedmoor is what I'd be looking at. Or were you thinking magnum?

A non magnum is what I was looking at.

6 creed is nearly the ideal mid sized game cartridge. It does everything the venerable whitetail reaper 243 win does well, and reliably shoots 108s to 1,500 yds better than the 243 ever could.

Thank you. That does help narrow things down for me. 6 creed is so dang popular!

 

[CobraCharmer]

I ran a stock Remington 700 with 20" Varmint barrel and hinged floor plate in a hs preicion stock and a leupold mk4 in DNZ one-piece rings, it tipped the scales at 11.5 pounds.

A m24/m40 contour will at 1.25-1.5 pounds to that and a Razor gen 3 would add another 1.5 pounds.

Hope that helps.

for deer and hogs you should be good with just about any 6mm cartridge 6mm ARC to 6mm-06. Were it me and the action and mag would feed 6br without hiccups, that would be the direction I would go. But I dont know anything about CDG actions nor the type of mag you want to use.

If your buying factory ammo, 243 or creedmoor would be hard to beat and feeding will be a non-issue.

YES. This helps immensely. So I am looking at a 15lb rifle. I can live with that.

My 7PRC has the ARC CDG Long Action and I love it. I was going to get its short action counterpart for this build.

For magazines, I was looking to use .308/6.5 Metal AICS Magazines.

 

[Mandango39]

It’s really hard to beat the 6 creed for an all around setup. For hunting, the 103 eldx kills different. It’s nasty.

I don’t shoot much at targets, I hunt more than my wife wants me to but less than I need to. The 6 is an amazing cartridge, especially in Kentucky. If I could only shoot one cartridge for now on, it would be a 6 creed.

 

[Newbie2020]

I am a huge fan of Berger bullets. I was looking at the 105 Grain VLDs. I do reload and am learning along the way. My initial instinct was 6 Creed but I simply wasn't sure. If I can be anywhere near the 2800 - 3k fps neighborhood with a 105gr pill (not sure if I will get that in a 20" barrel), I am more than happy.

I intend to build one, hence the list of items.

Would it be sub 15lbs? I am ok with that as well. Not that it is that far away from 22lbs.

Its more of a hybrid range rifle / hunt setup. Spotting impacts has been a remarkable eye opener for me, how light of a barrel can I get away with?

The ARC Coup De Grace action. Do you forsee any issues with loading from a magazine with the 6 Dasher? I read somewhere that the mags would need to be tuned for that round.

A non magnum is what I was looking at.

Thank you. That does help narrow things down for me. 6 creed is so dang popular!

It’s flatter shooting than my 6.5 Creedmoor which is better for hunting game at an unknown distance, but Recoil is a fraction of my 6.5creedmoor.

 

[RTH1800]

Any 6mm will do.

 

[diggler1833]

Would it be sub 15lbs? I am ok with that as well. Not that it is that far away from 22lbs.

I've got a couple of FN SPRs with 26" M24 barrels (no suppressor). With a non-adjustable McMillan A3 and a ~37oz scope I'm at 15.5lbs. With an adjustable McMillan A4 and ~35oz scope I'm at 16.5lbs.

I'd say you'd be in the 16-18lb range.

 

[FuhQ]

Hi folks,
I have been looking for some flavor of a 6mm build in a somewhat lighter rig and researching it has been nuts. There is a LOT of information out there and I just did not want to get lost in the clutter without some form of steering from the kind folks here.

I took the 7PRC out hunting a couple of times and while the performance from the 180gr Berger VLDs were stellar, i came away with the feeling that a 26" barrel and a 22 LB rifle is not necessarily needed for deer or for the occasional hogs around the property. Also, it was a bit of a workout lugging that thing around when combined with a backpack and dead animal. I would have been outright exhausted if it wasn't for my nephew (god bless that kid) who decided to help me out with the critter when i called him.

Ideally, here are some items that I was looking to put together:
1. 20 inch barrel or less in a M24 taper
2. Shooting suppressed
3. CDG Short Action
4. Manners MCS-T2A-GAP stock
5. Gen 3 Razor glass (I have one already)

Ideally i would like to keep the weight right around 12lbs but I have no idea if that is a pipe dream.

As always, I appreciate everyone's time and am all ears.

CC

Does it have to be a 6mm? Because a .25 Creedmoor pushing Berger 133 Elite Hunters will do an excellent job on deer and hogs. Or a regular old 6.5 Creedmoor or .260 Remington with 140's.

 

[zeroz]

I put the CDG with a 16" CF barrel and an ultra 7 in an HNT-26 with a Mark 5 on it and its almost 12 lbs. You'll be over that with the stuff you listed.

I know its not what you want to hear, but a 14.5" 6 arc AR or light bolt gun is ideal for what you're wanting. I have been using a shorty Grendel bolt gun or AR for deer and pigs the last couple years. It works so well and its so handy and light its hard to grab bigger, heavier guns for that type of work.

 

[DJL2]

You could probably run a light Palma barrel and be plenty heavy for a 6 Creed and a lot lighter than an M24. Obviously, you can save weight on the scope, but you seem committed there. I love the T2 GAP… but I’d probably skip the adjustments for a hunting build and save that weight as well. A T2 w/ CF shell is like 2.1 lbs on Manners spec sheet.

That won’t make for a light rifle by any stretch, but it will be a lighter rifle. I’ve got a 20” Proof CF 6.5 CM on a Manners CF CS-2 with mini-chassis and ARC Nuc G2 that I like a lot. It’s close to what you’re thinking about.

 

[CobraCharmer]

Does it have to be a 6mm? Because a .25 Creedmoor pushing Berger 133 Elite Hunters will do an excellent job on deer and hogs. Or a regular old 6.5 Creedmoor or .260 Remington with 140's.

It doesn't have to be a 6mm, not at all, i just wanted something that had the felt recoil of a 243 Win - figured this would be a good place to start. I have not shot the 25 creed or a 260 Remington so I really have no basis for any sort of comparison in that caliber.

I put the CDG with a 16" CF barrel and an ultra 7 in an HNT-26 with a Mark 5 on it and its almost 12 lbs. You'll be over that with the stuff you listed.

I know its not what you want to hear, but a 14.5" 6 arc AR or light bolt gun is ideal for what you're wanting. I have been using a shorty Grendel bolt gun or AR for deer and pigs the last couple years. It works so well and its so handy and light its hard to grab bigger, heavier guns for that type of work.

I am good with a 15Lb rifle.

I also have a 18" 6ARC upper from Noveske on the way. I just didnt want to double dip. Besides anything in the same caliber out of a bolt gun will have a lot more ass behind it.

You could probably run a light Palma barrel and be plenty heavy for a 6 Creed and a lot lighter than an M24. Obviously, you can save weight on the scope, but you seem committed there. I love the T2 GAP… but I’d probably skip the adjustments for a hunting build and save that weight as well. A T2 w/ CF shell is like 2.1 lbs on Manners spec sheet.

That won’t make for a light rifle by any stretch, but it will be a lighter rifle. I’ve got a 20” Proof CF 6.5 CM on a Manners CF CS-2 with mini-chassis and ARC Nuc G2 that I like a lot. It’s close to what you’re thinking about.

Thank you!

If you don't mind me asking what is the weight on the 6.5CM build that you mentioned?

 

[jbuck88]

Ballpark numbers for weight, but should be close.

Gen3 6-36- 45oz
ARC CDG- 34oz
Manners T2A in edge- 53oz
Supressor ?-13oz (my omega 300)
Trigger -2oz
Rings- 6oz (arc m10)
Hawkins hunter BM-3oz
= 156oz or just short of 10lbs before the barrel. I'm sure I forgot something.

For reference my 22" Barlein Carbon in Rem Varmint contour is right at 3lbs as a blank. It'll eventually be a 6cm.

 

[FuhQ]

I also have a 18" 6ARC upper from Noveske on the way. I just didnt want to double dip. Besides anything in the same caliber out of a bolt gun will have a lot more ass behind it.

My coyote/hog/target setup is a 16" Christensen Arms MPR w/ a carbon fiber barrel in 6mm ARC with either a Burris XTR-III 5.5-30x56 or an AGM Rattler TS50-640 thermal and Otter Creek Hydrogen-S 7.62 can... Weighs 11 lbs. with the thermal and suppressor (no ammo)...But never weighed it with the Burris on top, but I'd guess about 2 lbs more. Feels like a toy. Handles like a dream. Zero recoil. Pushing Nosler 115 RDF's at 2575 FPS MV. You won't get those kind of numbers in a 16" gas gun...

If you want some fun numbers to crunch... Run that bullet at that MV and check your ballistics and drops. It's pretty ridiculous for what it is.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Hi folks,
I have been looking for some flavor of a 6mm build in a somewhat lighter rig and researching it has been nuts. There is a LOT of information out there and I just did not want to get lost in the clutter without some form of steering from the kind folks here.

I took the 7PRC out hunting a couple of times and while the performance from the 180gr Berger VLDs were stellar, i came away with the feeling that a 26" barrel and a 22 LB rifle is not necessarily needed for deer or for the occasional hogs around the property. Also, it was a bit of a workout lugging that thing around when combined with a backpack and dead animal. I would have been outright exhausted if it wasn't for my nephew (god bless that kid) who decided to help me out with the critter when i called him.

Ideally, here are some items that I was looking to put together:
1. 20 inch barrel or less in a M24 taper
2. Shooting suppressed
3. CDG Short Action
4. Manners MCS-T2A-GAP stock
5. Gen 3 Razor glass (I have one already)

Ideally i would like to keep the weight right around 12lbs but I have no idea if that is a pipe dream.

As always, I appreciate everyone's time and am all ears.

CC

Yeah that's a ridiculous weight for a 7mm hunting rifle!
My wife hunts with a sub 6lb tikka 6.5 saum with a 16" barrel, it's 8lbs with a Nomad LT and Trijicon Credo 4-16.
My 14 YO nephew was smoking plates at 1065 with it yesterday.

My advice is buy a 6lb Tikka T3 6.5 creedmoor and be done with it

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

 

[CobraCharmer]

Ballpark numbers for weight, but should be close.

Gen3 6-36- 45oz
ARC CDG- 34oz
Manners T2A in edge- 53oz
Supressor ?-13oz (my omega 300)
Trigger -2oz
Rings- 6oz (arc m10)
Hawkins hunter BM-3oz
= 156oz or just short of 10lbs before the barrel. I'm sure I forgot something.

For reference my 22" Barlein Carbon in Rem Varmint contour is right at 3lbs as a blank. It'll eventually be a 6cm.

Thats a 13 lb rifle. Right up my alley.

 

[CobraCharmer]

Yeah that's a ridiculous weight for a 7mm hunting rifle!
My wife hunts with a sub 6lb tikka 6.5 saum with a 16" barrel, it's 8lbs with a Nomad LT and Trijicon Credo 4-16.
My 14 YO nephew was smoking plates at 1065 with it yesterday.

My advice is buy a 6lb Tikka T3 6.5 creedmoor and be done with it

It was never meant to be a hunting rifle. Since my 195gr EOL bullets are on perpetual backorder, I had to work up some load data using the Berger 180s. Its also the only bolt gun I own and I didn't want to take a gas gun out for a deer hunt when i don't really want to shoot it with a 556 or a 300blk. Walking around, maneuvering in the blind etc. made me realize the importance of a shorter lighter rifle.

View attachment 8308380

Thats outrageously light.

 

[Judd]

I’ve had 2 different 20” 6 Creedmoors…both shot 105 hybrids right around (one slightly over and one slightly under) 3k fps. That combo punches above its weight class. My current one is a rebarreled Sig Cross with a Shilen #4, it’s right at 10lb including scope (razor LHT) and regular Nomad.

For what you’re hunting an even lighter weight fast twist 22 would be awesome. The current gun I’m playing with is a 22 Creedmoor with 80.5 fullbores…it’s way fun to shoot and at 20” this is my second one pushing them at 3200.

Good luck, my back hurts just thinking about a 22lb rig

Also, fwiw…the 6br improved scrubs a bunch of speed when you cut the barrel down…the 243 or 6 are better options.

 

[dave_45]

243 AI
243 wssm if you reload and can get brass
I've also saw a reamer and people had 6prc built.....

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

My favorite two 6’s are the 6mm Remington and the .240 Weatherby. That said always wanted one of each, never owned either one. We have owned two, .243’s. Brenda’s currently hunting rifle is an ancient Remington 700, in .243. It can, in her hands shoot like a bandit, has an action so smooth that it would make Tikka Owners throw their Tikka’s into the nearest trash dumpster out of jealousy and kills deer as good as anything we own using 100 grain Nosler Partitions.

I beleive that is the key with 6’s. A good bullet. The Nosler Partition has been as good as anything we have ever used for harvesting game.

In the 1960’s and early to mid 1970’s, Remington could really make some nice rifles.

 

[chevy_man]

243 or 6 creed
Keep the barrel short, #3-4 profile and thread for can
ALG carbon stock

Once you build one under 10 lbs you'll never carry a heavy rifle again.

Remember to weight check carbon barrels. They're not that light, they're just lighter than all steel in that profile.

 

[Savageman2506]

Going to be tough to keep it sub 12 lbs with the specs you chose. A medium palma contour or similar would probably be better for a little more weight savings, and maybe trading the razor for a little lighter weight scope.

6 creedmor or .243 are my vote as well. Ammo and brass availability, common, and plenty enough steam to take down deer, antelope, pigs, etc.

 

[fdkay]

Well, your scope choice adds a ton of weight.
I just built a 7-08 AI on a medium action with a mullerworks carbon fiber wrapped 22" barrel. It sits in a pure precision carbon fiber stock. With my 4.5-18 lrtsi and bipod it weighs right around 11 pounds.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

You’re going to have another heavy ass rifle that sucks to carry with that barrel, stock and optic.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

^^^^^Yep the point of a hunting rifle is light contours and stocks for actual hunting..
You don't need to shoot 10 round recoilless strings like a PRS match.

 

[AccuSol-ERN]

Based on what I have heard so far. I would build the following:

- 6creed
- 20" #4 bull sporter (or smallest contour that leaves enough meat for 5/8-24 threading)
- carbon Manners T/A.....bedded......no mini chassis.
- fed by AICS pattern
- everything else is personal preference.

Not sure what the final weight would be, but this is a rock solid reliable hunting rig for years to come.

Ern

 

[CobraCharmer]

I re-evaluated everything that has been said here (y'all are pretty no nonsense with your advice and I appreciate that) and here is what I came up with on the weight front:
Weight on the Manners Stock carbonfiber with no chassis - 2.5 lbs
Carbon Fiber Barrel 20" - 4 lbs
Scope and Rings: 4 lbs
CDG Short Action: 2.1 lbs
This is the only way i get to meet my 12ish lb weight requirement, I think.

Edit: I felt it prudent to add that I am trying to save some money by sticking to my Gen 3 Razor / MBrace Mount combo. I will look at a lighter Scope / Mount combo another time but funds are a bit limited atm.

 

[Savageman2506]

I re-evaluated everything that has been said here (y'all are pretty no nonsense with your advice and I appreciate that) and here is what I came up with on the weight front:
Weight on the Manners Stock carbonfiber with no chassis - 2.5 lbs
Carbon Fiber Barrel 20" - 4 lbs
Scope and Rings: 4 lbs
CDG Short Action: 2.1 lbs
This is the only way i get to meet my 12ish lb weight requirement, I think.

Edit: I felt it prudent to add that I am trying to save some money by sticking to my Gen 3 Razor / MBrace Mount combo. I will look at a lighter Scope / Mount combo another time but funds are a bit limited atm.

My proof .308 20" prefit on my origin is about 3 lbs, and I have ARC MBrace rings and an NX8 on my rifle. It weighs right at 11 lbs with a loaded MDT magazine. So its definitely doable.

Good luck with your build! It should be a great shooter.

 

[45-90]

I wouldn't hunt with a 12 lb rifle ...thats more than my 416 Rigby. My walk around AR 10 308 weights 6 lbs 3 oz without scope, and 7 lbs 12 oz scoped set up for 1200 yds ...if necessary.
But if that's what ya want...a 6mm 7.5 twist 20" Bartlein Remington Varmint contour would be stiff enough, I'd look for a light weight stock. Manners are heavy, unless they now make something in carbon fiber. I built a 308 Win 22" 9 twist Bartlein on Rem Varmint contour with detachable mag set up, and used stock for HS stock which was not that light ...it was 7.5 lbs no scope. So any 6mm cartridge, 6mm ARC and above will work depending on range. But a common cartridge gets available components, as well as loaded factory ammo more readily...a common problem with many new cartridges is no ammo or brass available, ...until next year.
It's your rifle build it with the components you like, but if the components are heavy, the rifle will be heavy...be prepared to carry it.
That gets old in a hurry after the first long trek. So I'd build light. Look at the weight of various rifle components and add them up...titanium, magnesium, carbon fiber stocks 22 to 25 oz, are light, and barrel fluting, skeletonizing, further reduces weight.
Medium game? Means different things to different people. My 6 mm ARC AR 15 18" barrel will run 108 eldm handloads st 2667 fps good for deer, hogs, and coyotes...but elk would be a stretch but would do the job at closer ranges.
So the larger capacity 6mms will get a bit more energy on target. Going light includes the scope...only get what is required...no use carrying a 4 lb scope & mounts in the hunting field, when 16 or 20 oz will do.

 

[Tex68w]

I have a 20" 308 build that sits at 10.5 lbs with a TBAC Ultra 7 Gen 2 so it's definitely doable. I find anything 9-11 lbs to be a great weight for a stable hunting rifle. Proof 20" Carbon pre-fit, Zermatt action, Hawkins M5 DBM, AG Composites Adjustable Hunter, TBAC Ultra 7 Gen 2, NF ATACR 4-16. I'll be moving this build over to a Manners Pro Hunter in the offseason and that drops another 14-16 oz.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

my thought is, four pounds for a scope and rings. Unless I missed something previously mentioned, If weight is the issue, a MK5 3-18 is only 30 ounces that combined with rings would still be well under three pounds.

Addendum: Makes sense @jbuck88

 

[jbuck88]

my tought is, four pounds for a scope and rings. Unless I missed something previously mentioned, If weight is the issue, a MK5 3-18 is only 30 ounces that combined with rings would still be well under three pounds.

Sounds like he already has a g3 and is trying to reuse it for this project.

 

[DJL2]

It doesn't have to be a 6mm, not at all, i just wanted something that had the felt recoil of a 243 Win - figured this would be a good place to start. I have not shot the 25 creed or a 260 Remington so I really have no basis for any sort of comparison in that caliber.

I am good with a 15Lb rifle.

I also have a 18" 6ARC upper from Noveske on the way. I just didnt want to double dip. Besides anything in the same caliber out of a bolt gun will have a lot more ass behind it.

Thank you!

If you don't mind me asking what is the weight on the 6.5CM build that you mentioned?

My apologies - 9.5 lbs rifle and optic, 11.5 lbs (ish) with bipod and suppressor.

2.7 lbs in the CS-2 w/ Elite shell
2.1 lbs (ish) for the ARC Nuc
2.7 lbs (ish) for the Proof CF bbl
2 lbs for the optic and rings

Obviously a steel barrel would add weight and save cost. I could go lighter on the optic by a few ounces. However, the weight and balance where it is now suits me for a carry gun.

 

[CobraCharmer]

My apologies - 9.5 lbs rifle and optic, 11.5 lbs (ish) with bipod and suppressor.

2.7 lbs in the CS-2 w/ Elite shell
2.1 lbs (ish) for the ARC Nuc
2.7 lbs (ish) for the Proof CF bbl
2 lbs for the optic and rings

Obviously a steel barrel would add weight and save cost. I could go lighter on the optic by a few ounces. However, the weight and balance where it is now suits me for a carry gun.

This Recipe is all i have the moolah for at the moment. Perfect!