Night Vision Looking for a knock your socks off PVS-14

[superde]

So, bought a WP L3 filmless PVS-14 with a FOM of 1680 as my first dive into NV (more or less). Then I looked through a buddies dual tube WP L3 filmless NV with FOM's of 2600+ and I was blown away. So, sold my lower FOM 14 and now i'm looking to get something awesome like he has, but in PVS-14 form. Where do I go to get in line? Not bargain shopping, but I'm sure there is a point of diminishing returns.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Well first off, any decent dual tube system (FOM 1900 and above) will make it appear to way outperform even a "super toob" (2500 plus FOM) single PVS 14 just due to the nature of having both eyes under ITT pods.

Point I am getting at, was it having both eyes under pods vs a single that made you "blown away" or was there truly a huge performance difference between the 2600 FOM Duals and a Single 1680 FOM PVS 14.

I suspect most of the "blown away" was from your brain and eyes really liking both under ITT pods.

It is highly likely that if you had another PVS 14 (FOM 1680) paired with your original tube on a bridge such that they were dual'd up, the "blow away" factor likely would not have been that large.

The above is what I have typically observed with most people.

 

[Choid]

Well first off, any decent dual tube system (FOM 1900 and above) will make it appear to way outperform even a "super toob" (2500 plus FOM) single PVS 14 just due to the nature of having both eyes under ITT pods.

Point I am getting at, was it having both eyes under pods vs a single that made you "blown away" or was there truly a huge performance difference between the 2600 FOM Duals and a Single 1680 FOM PVS 14.

I suspect most of the "blown away" was from your brain and eyes really liking both under ITT pods.

It is highly likely that if you had another PVS 14 (FOM 1680) paired with your original tube on a bridge such that they were dual'd up, the "blow away" factor likely would not have been that large.

The above is what I have typically observed with most people.

I kind of agree, and kind of disagree. If you are using the tubes for staring, be it at a white wall to see how pretty the tubes are, or for astronomy, or whatever, I think you see a pretty significant difference at 1000 FOM, which is like 10-15 SNR points depending on resolution. Where I agree is that when you start moving around the difference becomes way less of a big deal. Still noticeable if you stop to look. I don't begrudge either, and find myself on both sides of the fence. But as to being a tool, little difference.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Only time I ever stare at a white wall is when I first get a tube and evaluate it for cosmetics regarding blems or specs. After that, it is out and about moving around. (However, the Mrs. might like for me to be staring at "white walls" forever)

So actually moving around in the woods or open fields at night is what I am referring too. Hecque, given that about 50% of the time you are out at night (even in rural areas) enough decent ambient light will exist such that a dual set of 1680 FOM tubes will look pretty similar to even high spec dual ones.

It's the other 50% of the time, especially under heavy canopy on a fully overcast night where they all take an ass whooping. Even them "super toobs"

 

[superde]

I understand what you’re saying, but I have 5-6 to spend, and not 10k+. I spent the other chunk of money on all the other stuff you need, lol. DBal, Vampire, multiple tape switches/buttons, helmet, all the Norotos stuff - it seems to never end.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I understand what you’re saying, but I have 5-6 to spend, and not 10k+. I spent the other chunk of money on all the other stuff you need, lol. DBal, Vampire, multiple tape switches/buttons, helmet, all the Norotos stuff - it seems to never end.

Find you 2 good Green PVS 14's (Omni 7 Specs) used and put on a Mod Armory Lightweight Bridge. $2,000 per 14 and $350 for mount. $4,350 all in for an excellent set of Bino's. Actually better than a dedicated Bino in all aspects except one. They are somewhat heavier.

Way more POWAH than one high spec filmless PVS 14 that will cost you pretty close to the same in today's environment.

Good Green, just as good as good WP. I have both so I am not a bigot or salesman pushing product.

 

[rlsmith1]

If you're not in a hurry, night goggles will likely do another run of their XLSH tubes in binos and those are right in your price range depending on the housing you choose. You may even be able to find someone who would part with theirs for a few extra bucks. Just a thought. Dual 14's are nice because they are shareable but they are also heavier.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Dual 14's are nice because they are shareable but they are also heavier.

Lots of advantages with dual 14's.

1. Redundant individual power systems. You will likely never go 100% down like you will with dedicated bino's. If you lose one 14 tube, you still in the game with the other 14. This is usually not the case with a dedicated Bino. You lose on pod, most likely you lose both.

2. Independent manual Gain adjustment for each tube. This is a very desirable and advantageous feature. Especially when running a COTI and wanting to keep your shooting eyes natural night vision in tact to monitor ambient light and other reasons. Put COTI on non dominate eye (left) for right handed shooters and turn your right gain way down. Three important things happen.

(A) COTI "pops" much better because your eyes are not fighting over which one is dominant to the COTI image.

(B) Your brain and eyes are happy for depth perception etc, because even though the right 14 is turned down, it is still enough to satisfy your brain and eyes that one eye is not staring off into the dark like when running a single.

(C)Your natural night vision is preserved in your right eye such that you can easily look to the side of your NODs or under them and monitor the true ambient lighting situation.

3. Face plant and bust up a set of 14 duals and you are more likely to only lose one 14 so can ship a busted one off for repairs or repair yourself and still have one 14 to stay in the game while the other is being fixed. Not so with dedicated Binos.

4. Ability to break down and use as 2 single PVS 14's for sharing with buddy etc.

5. Ability to break down and run a small lightweight single system if the situation dictates. Especially when combined with traveling and using a Crye Night Cap.

6. Two independent on board Illuminators in case your main helmet illuminator goes down for some reason.

7. Ability to run a PVS 14 and helmet mounted thermal like a Flir Breach, Skeet or NOX. You cannot do this with dedicated Binos. There are times in heavy cover, rough terrain that conditions are so bad for seeing (without using an illuminator) that the ability to have a head mounted thermal will help you navigate rough terrain when an I squared device cannot do it by itself. Between the two devices, you can get enough information to traverse rough terrain safely without using supplemental illumination. Whereas a dedicated Bino system has no choice but to fire up an illuminator.

There are more, but in the interests of brevity, the above are some of the bigger advantages.

 

[rlsmith1]

Don't want to derail, but #4 & #7 are the biggest advantages IMO with #2 being very relevant as you don't have to source (pay for) matched tubes to run duals.

As for the faceplants, those never happen to operators

 

[WhereNow&How]

Don't want to derail, but #4 & #7 are the biggest advantages IMO with #2 being very relevant as you don't have to source (pay for) matched tubes to run duals.

As for the faceplants, those never happen to operators

Yeah, I have seen some of the specs on "matched tubes" that one of the big names has put together in a Bino system for a customer. They were so mismatched it was hilarious. One tube had a FOM 2,348.8 and the other is FOM 1,939.2. That is a 21.12% variation in the FOMs.

However, I have run a ton of mismatched 14's over the years with zero real world issues. I tend to think most of those "so say headaches" come from poorly fitting helmets.

 

[E-Tool]

I too am waiting for the answer to your question OP. I think you know what you want just not where to get it.

 

[superde]

Find you 2 good Green PVS 14's (Omni 7 Specs) used and put on a Mod Armory Lightweight Bridge. $2,000 per 14 and $350 for mount. $4,350 all in for an excellent set of Bino's. Actually better than a dedicated Bino in all aspects except one. They are somewhat heavier.

Way more POWAH than one high spec filmless PVS 14 that will cost you pretty close to the same in today's environment.

Good Green, just as good as good WP. I have both so I am not a bigot or salesman pushing product.

Where to find 2 used PVS-14's? Between ARF, FB NV group, and here it is slim pickings.

 

[superde]

I too am waiting for the answer to your question OP. I think you know what you want just not where to get it.

There was a used one that I missed here on Monday it seems in the FS section. I seems that NV these days is like 9mm ammo, lol.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Where to find 2 used PVS-14's? Between ARF, FB NV group, and here it is slim pickings.

It is tough out there for sure.

Maybe visit with Robert at JRH Enterprises and see what it looks like on some good Photonis Echos. Those are pretty good performing units. You could also try Jay at Sureshot Night Vision and see what he has available.

Both of those guys are solid, shoot you straight, vendors.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

I understand what you’re saying, but I have 5-6 to spend, and not 10k+. I spent the other chunk of money on all the other stuff you need, lol. DBal, Vampire, multiple tape switches/buttons, helmet, all the Norotos stuff - it seems to never end.

Feel free to PM me here. Be glad to assist and educate as best we can even if you may choose to purchase somewhere else. I give my cell phone out a lot around here, be happy to assist. Thank you.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Where to find 2 used PVS-14's? Between ARF, FB NV group, and here it is slim pickings.

Back in the "good ole days" I even picked up some nice units on Fleabay for cheap prices. However, you gotta really know what to look for and be very selective in what you go after. Haven't seen anything there used that's decent and cheap in awhile.

 

[TNVC_Will]

So, bought a WP L3 filmless PVS-14 with a FOM of 1680 as my first dive into NV (more or less). Then I looked through a buddies dual tube WP L3 filmless NV with FOM's of 2600+ and I was blown away. So, sold my lower FOM 14 and now i'm looking to get something awesome like he has, but in PVS-14 form. Where do I go to get in line? Not bargain shopping, but I'm sure there is a point of diminishing returns.

@superde

To answer your question: You can request specifications for no additional charge at TNVC. You'll be very happy with unfilmed WP that's 2376 and up.

Be careful shopping based on FOM. In case you're not aware FOM = Resolution x Signal to Noise Ratio. So, as an example: 2500 FOM could mean 72 lp/mm & 34 signal to noise ratio or it could mean 81 lp/mm & 30 signal to noise ratio. In a PVS-14 you want the FOM performance coming from the SNR and not resolution.

Feel free to give us a ring or shoot us an email.

 

[WhereNow&How]

@superde The statement below is not really that accurate.

"In a PVS-14 you want the FOM performance coming from the SNR and not resolution."

Some will try to convince you that a resolution any higher than 64 LP is a waste on a PVS 14 and not needed because your eyes cannot benefit from anything higher.

What they fail to understand and set forth (especially to a new comer to NV) is the fact that to be able to get the utmost benefit out of a PVS 14, it is highly desirable and advantageous to use 3x, 5x and 10x magnifiers quite often for extended range PID on critters and stuff out to 1,000 yards.
When using a magnifier on a PVS 14 for extended range PID, a 72 line pair or better tube will give a much better image for PID.

I do this quite often when I detect critters at great distance with Thermal. Thermal in many cases cannot provide a PID so I slip an appropriate size Magnifier (dependent on distance) on the 14 and light the critter up with a Luna and get PID very easily. Saves a lot of walking and stalking.

So in reality, having a balance of good Line Pair, SN, Photocathode response, EBI, Gain, etc are all part of the important equation for performance in real field use from A to Z conditions and situations.

However, the most accurate generalized statement one can make is this. A good illuminator makes all tubes more equal that any single metric on tube specifications. You can take that statement to the bank.

 

[TNVC_Will]

@superde
What is going on in here is a shame. Good luck receiving legitimate information.

What "some" fail to understand is that L3Harris unfilmed tubes with 2376+ FOM (which I recommended based on your original question) basically guarantees 72 resolution. God forbid that 2376+ FOM unfilmed tube had 64 resolution! That would mean 37 signal to noise ratio!! Run away run away, L3 bad.....

 

[TheHorta]

Just do yourself a favor and get yourself an L3 2376 WP PVS-14.

It is ***THE*** Gold Standard in 14’s. Period.

BOCO.

/thread

 

[WhereNow&How]

@TheHorta Straight up, knowing all that you know now. If you only had $5 or 6 thousand to spend,(as OP has stated) and these were the only NV you might have for a while, would you rather purchase a high spec single or a good mid range set of used duels.

 

[Dvlray6]

Just do yourself a favor and get yourself an L3 2376 WP PVS-14.

It is ***THE*** Gold Standard in 14’s. Period.

BOCO.

/thread

Listen to Uncle Horta. My L3 2376+ unfilmed WP is by far the best tube I’ve ever looked through. The incremental cost is small compared to the incremental performance.

 

[Choid]

@superde
What is going on in here is a shame. Good luck receiving legitimate information.

What "some" fail to understand is that L3Harris unfilmed tubes with 2376+ FOM (which I recommended based on your original question) basically guarantees 72 resolution. God forbid that 2376+ FOM unfilmed tube had 64 resolution! That would mean 37 signal to noise ratio!! Run away run away, L3 bad.....

Dude, it is just people giving different opinions. It isn't a shame, and they aren't illegitimate. They are opinions as to what is more useful. Chill out.

 

[TheHorta]

@TheHorta Straight up, knowing all that you know now. If you only had $5 or 6 thousand to spend,(as OP has stated) and these were the only NV you might have for a while, would you rather purchase a high spec single or a good mid range set of used duels.

That’s a difficult question, but let me try hard to think like a Poor...

Personally, I’d probably look at the NOD as the centerpiece of any system. I’d blow my wad on the centerpiece and add extras as I could afford.

I know a handful of guys who, oddly enough, prefer monos over binos. I think that’s weird, but Oldtimer “MurderMan” over on ARF was one such dude whom I had great respect for (he’s been dormant for years now, I believe).

I’d *likely* go with duals, assuming we’re talking those XLSH deals going around. Those tubes are solid, and I’d rather sacrifice some tube performance — to a point — for duals. The difference between good/solid performance and EPIC performance tends to evaporate under normal use while the reward of dual tubes keeps on chugging.

But... if I were bent on getting a 14, it would be the L3. Failing that, I’d get a 14 with a spectacular tube sheet from a known quality builder — TNVC, HEAT, Sure Shot, etc. Guys who know how to build stuff and don’t farm it out to Chester Cheeto in his mom’s basement.

 

[GreenMushroom]

Lots of advantages with dual 14's.

1. Redundant individual power systems. You will likely never go 100% down like you will with dedicated bino's. If you lose one 14 tube, you still in the game with the other 14. This is usually not the case with a dedicated Bino. You lose on pod, most likely you lose both.

2. Independent manual Gain adjustment for each tube. This is a very desirable and advantageous feature. Especially when running a COTI and wanting to keep your shooting eyes natural night vision in tact to monitor ambient light and other reasons. Put COTI on non dominate eye (left) for right handed shooters and turn your right gain way down. Three important things happen.

(A) COTI "pops" much better because your eyes are not fighting over which one is dominant to the COTI image.

(B) Your brain and eyes are happy for depth perception etc, because even though the right 14 is turned down, it is still enough to satisfy your brain and eyes that one eye is not staring off into the dark like when running a single.

(C)Your natural night vision is preserved in your right eye such that you can easily look to the side of your NODs or under them and monitor the true ambient lighting situation.

3. Face plant and bust up a set of 14 duals and you are more likely to only lose one 14 so can ship a busted one off for repairs or repair yourself and still have one 14 to stay in the game while the other is being fixed. Not so with dedicated Binos.

4. Ability to break down and use as 2 single PVS 14's for sharing with buddy etc.

5. Ability to break down and run a small lightweight single system if the situation dictates. Especially when combined with traveling and using a Crye Night Cap.

6. Two independent on board Illuminators in case your main helmet illuminator goes down for some reason.

7. Ability to run a PVS 14 and helmet mounted thermal like a Flir Breach, Skeet or NOX. You cannot do this with dedicated Binos. There are times in heavy cover, rough terrain that conditions are so bad for seeing (without using an illuminator) that the ability to have a head mounted thermal will help you navigate rough terrain when an I squared device cannot do it by itself. Between the two devices, you can get enough information to traverse rough terrain safely without using supplemental illumination. Whereas a dedicated Bino system has no choice but to fire up an illuminator.

There are more, but in the interests of brevity, the above are some of the bigger advantages.

I don't want to get into the technical side of this cause its over my head but #4 on this list is a big one and you'll have to determine what its worth to you. For me it was a deciding factor. The downside being that dual 14s especially with a coti is heavy and you end up with tank turret head but the ability to spread your devices out among multiple people and pull them back together if needed is worth it imo. Add in the ability to mix and match with a thermal and it was a no brainer for me.

On the subject of 2 tubes vrs 1 when I first mounted both my 14s I was pretty let down. I guess I was expecting to see the hand of God reaching down or something. As soon as I started walking around though it was a whole different ball game. That little bit of extra depth perception makes a huge difference negotiating more complex terrain. In short my conclusion is one tube is fine for static or walking on level terrain but dual is a huge advantage for rough terrain.

Eta i have the xls 14s from tnvc. They do everything I want and saved me the coin so I could get coti/nox. They are an excellent building block imo. Mine are both 2300+ fom and 30+ snr. Don't know if this is the norm but I'm very happy with them.

Correction I was looking at photo. Fom is 2000 on one and 2445 on the other.

 

[Dvlray6]

With the great bridging options out there and the ability to add other I2 or thermal to it, a high FOM unflimed WP PVS14 makes a lot of sense to me. I have 3 duals right now (2 sentinel, 1 PVS31a) and I do still get a lot of use out of my 2050 FOM PVS14 which was my gateway drug into night vision. I use it as a spotter, bridged to thermal, as a low profile travel unit, etc.

If it is pure CQB, I run the duals with the e-coti. To hunt, I still run the PVS14 bridged with the Skeet for ultimate predator vision. Just my simple feedback.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I don't want to get into the technical side of this cause its over my head but #4 on this list is a big one and you'll have to determine what its worth to you. For me it was a deciding factor. The downside being that dual 14s especially with a coti is heavy and you end up with tank turret head but the ability to spread your devices out among multiple people and pull them back together if needed is worth it imo. Add in the ability to mix and match with a thermal and it was a no brainer for me.

On the subject of 2 tubes vrs 1 when I first mounted both my 14s I was pretty let down. I guess I was expecting to see the hand of God reaching down or something. As soon as I started walking around though it was a whole different ball game. That little bit of extra depth perception makes a huge difference negotiating more complex terrain. In short my conclusion is one tube is fine for static or walking on level terrain but dual is a huge advantage for rough terrain.

Eta i have the xls 14s from tnvc. They do everything I want and saved me the coin so I could get coti/nox. They are an excellent building block imo. Mine are both 2300+ fom and 30+ snr. Don't know if this is the norm but I'm very happy with them.

This exactly.

 

[GreenMushroom]

On the subject of mounts I had originally intended to go with the knights stuff for the push button flexibility but ended up with Mod Armory d14s. The d14 looks heavy in the pictures but in reality is quite light. For a single mount with the dovetail mount and screw removed from one side it weighs the exact same as a knights jamr. A bit of an expensive option but it avoids dealing with knights funky dovetail mounts and availability issues.

 

[WhereNow&How]

The d14 looks heavy in the pictures but in reality is quite light. For a single mount with the dovetail mount and screw removed from one side it weighs the exact same as a knights jamr.

Being you really like the D14, I believe you would love the Mod Armory Lightweight version. I have both, but really love the Lightweight.

It is a simple, super strong bridge, no wiggle or chatter mount (that does not interfere with the Infinity rings like other manufacturers bridges do), such that you can correctly mount a COTI that is modestly priced.

An engineering, marketing and performance No 1 hit.

 

[TNVC_Will]

Dude, it is just people giving different opinions. It isn't a shame, and they aren't illegitimate. They are opinions as to what is more useful. Chill out.

I hear you brother and I'm trying but it is frustrating when more often than not someone will counter literally anything that we say. In my opinion (I can have those too) that questions the legitimacy of the information because it is biased from the start.

Also, to suggest that someone should sacrifice SNR for a higher RES for the rare instances when they may use a magnifier with their PVS-14 is not good advice. It would be different if OP had said that from the start. I'd bet most members here have a 3x collecting dust somewhere. It's for sure very useful but it's a tool that's seldom used by the overall majority of users.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

 

[WhereNow&How]

Im workin on my Ballistic Mass Index.

 

[GreenMushroom]

I hear you brother and I'm trying but it is frustrating when more often than not someone will counter literally anything that we say. In my opinion (I can have those too) that questions the legitimacy of the information because it is biased from the start.

Also, to suggest that someone should sacrifice SNR for a higher RES for the rare instances when they may use a magnifier with their PVS-14 is not good advice. It would be different if OP had said that from the start. I'd bet most members here have a 3x collecting dust somewhere. It's for sure very useful but it's a tool that's seldom used by the overall majority of users.

One of the tubes I got from you guys has a res of 76. Would this be a good candidate for a magnifier if I want to get one. Would the difference be noticeable over my other tube that is 64 res? They're both bright and I don't notice much difference between the 2 wearing them on my head.

 

[TNVC_Will]

One of the tubes I got from you guys has a res of 76. Would this be a good candidate for a magnifier if I want to get one. Would the difference be noticeable over my other tube that is 64 res? They're both bright and I don't notice much difference between the 2 wearing them on my head.

They'll both be fine on a 3x magnifier. The better tube in 1x will also be the better tube in 3x however both will have some loss in performance because you're adding lenses in front of your -14 versus something like a dedicated magnified scope or clip on.

 

[TheHorta]

A magnifier does not benefit from added resolution — assuming you’re talking about one that affixes to the objective. You get the same resolution at 1x, 3x, 5x, 10x, etc.

Only when you put a magnifier or scope BEHIND the NOD would that come into play to any extent.

 

[WhereNow&How]

A magnifier does not benefit from added resolution — assuming you’re talking about one that affixes to the objective. You get the same resolution at 1x, 3x, 5x, 10x, etc.

Only when you put a magnifier or scope BEHIND the NOD would that come into play to any extent.

Horta, riddle me this. Setting magnifiers aside for now.

So, does a 72 LP resolution tube suffer less degradation on its high light measurement than a 64 LP resolution tube, given they are both exposed to the same amount of high light.

Example:
72 LP exposed to high light = xx high light resolution
64 LF exposed to same exact light = xx high light resolution

 

[Choid]

Horta, riddle me this.

So a does a 72 LP resolution tube suffer less degradation on its high light measurement than 64 LP resolution tube, given they are both exposed to the same amount of high light.

Example: 72 LP exposed to high light = xx resolution
64 LF exposed to same exact light = xx resolution

There shouldn't be degradation because you are magnifying the image to the optic, not magnifying the image on the screen of the optic. There should be a difference in light transmission because of the extra glass, and as light goes down, you likely turn gain up, which makes SNR look worse. Just my guess.

 

[WhereNow&How]

@Choid I should have clarified my question better.

Setting aside any magnifiers for the time being. Just take 2 tubes under normal testing procedures at the factory. Will a 72 LP tube have higher LP under high light conditions than a 64 LP tube under the same exact high light conditions.

 

[zinny]

On the highlight res, that's a good question. Ive seen various 72lp and 64 lp UFWP L3 tubes, but the spec sheet always denoted 36lp highlight.

Though like how L3 has fewer res grades than say elbit, so that any resolution up to the next level would be considered the previous tier. So a 64lp and 68lp tube are all considered as "64lp", same with a 72lp and 76lp as "72lp". I wonder if that's some what the case here.

 

[rlsmith1]

From what I understand, this has more to do with the tube type than the starting specs. Jay explains it in his PVS-27 videos saying the Photonis tubes actually perform close to their 72lp in high light (assuming 72lp in lowlight). The L3 tubes see more degradation in high light, but they also have much better specs in lowlight (and require an illuminator less). Jay's comments are if you are using an illuminator, Photonis will retain more quality under an illuminator where the L3 tubes will need an illuminator less because of their lowlight performance (unfilmed). I don't know where the Elbit tubes fit into all this.

I don't have first hand experience with either under highlight / lowlight but am passing along what Jay has shared.

 

[WhereNow&How]

On the highlight res, that's a good question. Ive seen various 72lp and 64 lp UFWP L3 tubes, but the spec sheet always denoted 36lp highlight.

Yes, if Horta cannot answer it, hopefully some of the other subject matter experts will come along and answer the question.

It's not a trick question.

 

[superde]

Wow, this thread really blew up I see. TIme to have a beer tonight and figure out how much i'm willing to spend - to dual or not to dual. Thank you everyone for the input.

 

[superde]

 

[brettb614]

I have two filmless WP tubes together, both around 2500 FOM, incredible set up. Very please with it. Using mod armory qd bridge and it's perfect for me, because I prefer to have articulation. I did have a g3 thin filmed and it wasn't even close...FOM was around 2000 on that one....buy once cry once. Big difference in low or no light
Stargazing absolutely life changing. Bought them separately over time

 

[superde]

@brettb614 what does that weigh?

 

[Namekagon]

That’s a difficult question, but let me try hard to think like a Poor...

Personally, I’d probably look at the NOD as the centerpiece of any system. I’d blow my wad on the centerpiece and add extras as I could afford.

I know a handful of guys who, oddly enough, prefer monos over binos. I think that’s weird, but Oldtimer “MurderMan” over on ARF was one such dude whom I had great respect for (he’s been dormant for years now, I believe).

I’d *likely* go with duals, assuming we’re talking those XLSH deals going around. Those tubes are solid, and I’d rather sacrifice some tube performance — to a point — for duals. The difference between good/solid performance and EPIC performance tends to evaporate under normal use while the reward of dual tubes keeps on chugging.

But... if I were bent on getting a 14, it would be the L3. Failing that, I’d get a 14 with a spectacular tube sheet from a known quality builder — TNVC, HEAT, Sure Shot, etc. Guys who know how to build stuff and don’t farm it out to Chester Cheeto in his mom’s basement.

Just curious why you would choose the L3 14 first? They are about $1000 more than, say a TNVC hand select build, but with only 1 year warranty.

Does warranty matter? Kosher Surplus had some Carson L3 filmless 14's with good specs in stock, but the warranty was 2 yrs on tube and 5 yrs on housing. I passed mostly because I wasn't ready to buy yet, but that warranty was a turn off compared to TNVC and others (along with the fact I don't know anything about Carson and what their reputation might be).

 

[GreenMushroom]

I'll repost this from another thread. Adding a second pvs14 and coti is another 5500 or do what I did and order a nox for the same price.

2500$ xls pvs14 from tnvc/night goggles
475$ Team wendy or ops core bump helmet with
marshmallow pads and Mohawk from tnvc.
120$ rhino2 off ebay
75$ pvs15 dovetail adapter from tnvc
175$ Mod Armory dovetail j-arm adapter
275$ tlr2 eye safe laser/illuminater off ebay. I've only used it on a pistol but will try on a carbine soon. Will supposedly take the streamlight tailcap for a remote switch. At any rate it'll get you started and can be used on a pistol when you upgrade.

3620$

If you think you'll run a 2nd device in the future (which you will) get the Mod Armory d14 bridge instead of the jarm. Run as a single mount with the dovetail mount and screw removed it only weighs .9 oz more than the jarm. I would recommend this upgrade and you'd be a little over 4k with shipping.

 

[TheHorta]

Just curious why you would choose the L3 14 first? They are about $1000 more than, say a TNVC hand select build, but with only 1 year warranty.

Does warranty matter? Kosher Surplus had some Carson L3 filmless 14's with good specs in stock, but the warranty was 2 yrs on tube and 5 yrs on housing. I passed mostly because I wasn't ready to buy yet, but that warranty was a turn off compared to TNVC and others (along with the fact I don't know anything about Carson and what their reputation might be).

I'd personally have zero problem with a TNVC unit, or a unit from any other long-time, reputable maker. In fact, Vic and I are prettymuch lovers and our wives don't care.

But in the OP's particular case, if there is such a thing as a truly "desirable" PVS-14, it is unquestionably the L3 2376 unit. Until recently, it was Unobtanium. They fetch asking price on the secondary market. They get first-choice in "MIL-spec" tubes out of the factory, and they have a cool sticker that says "L3" on it.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I'll repost this from another thread. Adding a second pvs14 and coti is another 5500 or do what I did and order a nox for the same price.

2500$ xls pvs14 from tnvc/night goggles
475$ Team wendy or ops core bump helmet with
marshmallow pads and Mohawk from tnvc.
120$ rhino2 off ebay
75$ pvs15 dovetail adapter from tnvc
175$ Mod Armory dovetail j-arm adapter
275$ tlr2 eye safe laser/illuminater off ebay. I've only used it on a pistol but will try on a carbine soon. Will supposedly take the streamlight tailcap for a remote switch. At any rate it'll get you started and can be used on a pistol when you upgrade.

3620$

If you think you'll run a 2nd device in the future (which you will) get the Mod Armory d14 bridge instead of the jarm. Run as a single mount with the dovetail mount and screw removed it only weighs .9 oz more than the jarm. I would recommend this upgrade and you'd be a little over 4k with shipping.

Actually, the best move IMHO for a J Arm is a by once cry once situation. Get the Mod Armory Light Weight which makes for a great single jarm that folds your PVS 14 down nice and compact on a helmet. Take off either side shoulder bolt and arm and it is slick as can be.

Point being if you in for $175 on a stand alone jarm, might as well add another $175 to it and you have an excellent jarm or bridge for later use with another PVS 14 so you can do duals. No need to retool on mounts.

 

[superde]

So here is my deep thoughts tonight:

L3Harris PVS-14 Unfilmed WP 2396+ FOM from TNVC

BNVD-SG 3rd Gen WP HP+ from JRH

Hopefully this glass of Angels Envy Rye helps me decide.