Looking for a Marine Sniper manual circa 1966-1972

[Badgerord]

Hi Guys,

I am Looking for a Marine Sniper manual circa 1966-1972 to purchase, rent, borrow, lease what ever it takes.

If you have one or know of one, please let me know.

Marty
Badger Ordnance

 

[RedPepper]

Re: Looking for a Marine Sniper manual circa 1966-1972

Marty - I have a reprint from Desert Publications titled USMC Sniping. Is this what you are looking for? If so, no problem on a loan. PM me.

 

[Badgerord]

Re: Looking for a Marine Sniper manual circa 1966-1972

Is it the edition with the M40A1?

Marty
Badger Ordnance

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Looking for a Marine Sniper manual circa 1966-1972

I have the 1981 version of the Marine Sniper Rifle in .pdf format.

It DOES have the M40a1 rifle.

If you want it, PM me with your e-mail address.

 

[DocLes]

Re: Looking for a Marine Sniper manual circa 1966-1972

Marty,
Would this be what your looking for?

Doc Les

 

[Badgerord]

Re: Looking for a Marine Sniper manual circa 1966-1972

Thanks all,

I am looking for the the older stuff with the M40 in it.

Marty
Badger Ordnance

 

[hmb]

Re: Looking for a Marine Sniper manual circa 1966-1972

Marty,
Try getting in touch with the United States Marine Corps History Division. They should be able to help you out.

 

[accurange]

Re: Looking for a Marine Sniper manual circa 1966-1972

if you go to www.raparts.com they have a usmc m40 sniper manual and a m21 sniper manual both from the vietnam era on cd 450 pages that you have to print out hope thgis helps

 

[RedPepper]

Re: Looking for a Marine Sniper manual circa 1966-1972

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marty@Badger</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it the edition with the M40A1?

Marty
Badger Ordnance </div></div>

M40. I think it is what you are looking for.

 

[Badgerord]

Re: Looking for a Marine Sniper manual circa 1966-1972

It would be FMFM 1-3B dated Dec 1969.

I would like to find an original if possible, I will try the Corps (thanks Gurdy)

And will default to raparts.com in the event that I can't score one,(thanks accurange)
A lot of times the scanned stuff on CD's is less than outstanding image quality.

Marty
Badger Ordnance

 

[mjh30]

Re: Looking for a Marine Sniper manual circa 1966-1972

Marty, pm sent

 

[Badgerord]

Re: Looking for a Marine Sniper manual circa 1966-1972

Got one!

Thanks guys

Marty out

 

[rojoko]

Marty,
Try getting in touch with the United States Marine Corps History Division. They should be able to help you out.

It's a small Yellow covered manual with both the M21 and the M40 in it. I'm looking too. going through the USMC at the moment

 

[M40_A1]

It's a small Yellow covered manual with both the M21 and the M40 in it.

What manual is that?

I've never seen one with both the M21 and M40 together.

The 1967 and 1968 First Drafts of FMFM 1-3B (Proposed) showed the Winchester M70, and the Remington M700 (designated M40 in the final, 1969 version). The finished 1969 version shows only the M40, and the 1981 version shows only the M40A1. I don't believe there was a version between those two.

They all show the Starlight scope for use on the M14 and M16. Is that what you are thinking about when you refer to the M21? A Starlight on an M14 does not an M21 make.

 

[rojoko]

What manual is that?

I've never seen one with both the M21 and M40 together.

The 1967 and 1968 First Drafts of FMFM 1-3B (Proposed) showed the Winchester M70, and the Remington M700 (designated M40 in the final, 1969 version). The finished 1969 version shows only the M40, and the 1981 version shows only the M40A1. I don't believe there was a version between those two.

They all show the Starlight scope for use on the M14 and M16. Is that what you are thinking about when you refer to the M21? A Starlight on an M14 does not an M21 make.

Not at all, it exists, I had a copy. Small (roughly 5x8), very thick and went into all facets of using the M21 with M118. The M40 was the second rifle in the pub. I kept a copy in my shooting stool.

 

[M40_A1]

Not at all, it exists, I had a copy. Small (roughly 5x8), very thick and went into all facets of using the M21 with M118. The M40 was the second rifle in the pub. I kept a copy in my shooting stool.

Interesting. Thanks. Was it a military publication? Army, Marine Corps?

I have to change something I said in my last post. I wasn't aware of any FMF 1-3B manuals between the August 1969 and January 1981 versions; however, Mr. Senich says there were two changes made, on 22Sep71 and 7Apr76.

 

[M40_A1]

It would be FMFM 1-3B dated Dec 1969.

Badgerord, was the one you ended up finding dated December, or August 1969?

 

[George Az]

I love these posts. I saved an old one from the late 70's I found in a desk at 2 Mardiv. I never saw one older. Cool thread.

 

[rojoko]

Interesting. Thanks. Was it a military publication? Army, Marine Corps?

I have to change something I said in my last post. I wasn't aware of any FMF 1-3B manuals between the August 1969 and January 1981 versions; however, Mr. Senich says there were two changes made, on 22Sep71 and 7Apr76.

US Marine Corp Sniper manual. Can't remember the pub date, but it was circa 70's. I am still dogging this one to get another copy, if I do, I'll post a Jpg of the cover.

 

[M40_A1]

US Marine Corp Sniper manual. Can't remember the pub date, but it was circa 70's. I am still dogging this one to get another copy, if I do, I'll post a Jpg of the cover.

Might have been one of those 1970s changes mentioned, or maybe if there was a December, 1969 version (why I asked Badgerord). So, the question is, why?
Was there cross-training going on between the Marine Corps and the Army snipers at that time? Or was the Marine Corps short of M40s and loaned some M21s? Or did the Marine Corps actually have some M21s of their own? Or were Marines finding M21s lying around in the field, LOL?
Enquiring minds......

 

[rojoko]

Might have been one of those 1970s changes mentioned, or maybe if there was a December, 1969 version (why I asked Badgerord). So, the question is, why?
Was there cross-training going on between the Marine Corps and the Army snipers at that time? Or was the Marine Corps short of M40s and loaned some M21s? Or did the Marine Corps actually have some M21s of their own? Or were Marines finding M21s lying around in the field, LOL?
Enquiring minds......

1) The M21 and M14Nm were never really out of inventory
2) The M21 continued to be used well after the corp converted to M16s, but continued to raise hell to get their M14s back.
3) Of the M14s left in inventory after Clinton shipped most of them overseas via MAP, Navy latched into most of them (issue M14s), the ones they had went to the USMC for the most part as the DMR. Although 14s were converted to M25 (McMillan M1A style stock).
4) If you watch clips or look at pictures dating back to Iraw in 91, you'll note a fair amount of M21s in the pictures. Spec Ops teams loved them and shot them dry.
5) USMTU (or AMU, AMTU) still has M14 in inventory. They are used with M3A stocks, I talked with several of the guys at Perry last year since they wanted to play with an M1A in the M3A stock I had since they'd never tried it with iron sights.

Sorry, I do prefer the 14 rifle, always have since the first time I shot an M14NM in 69. Bought a Devine Tx M1A in 73. Although the M40 and M40A1 are better, the tuned M14s used as sniper rifles still perform. I know, I've shot them to 1000 yards quite a bit when I was younger.

 

[M40_A1]

I know the Corps used the M14 until switching to the M16, as did the other services. I used the M16A1 and M16A2 when I was in, but if I had a choice, I'd be grabbing the M14, same as you!

Anyway, the M14NM isn't an M21 until it is paired with an ART scope (pretty sure on that). I've never heard of Marines using the ART. That's why I'm wondering what's up. Are you using "M14" and "M21" interchangeably?

BTW, I sold my Super Match M1A to a friend in 1989 to fund my M40A1 build. My friend then proceded to blow it up using some new eastern European powder. I wish I hadn't sold it to him.

 

[Badgerord]

A1,
I have the Dec 69, I am looking for the Aug 69.

Marty

 

[M40_A1]

Marty,
I'd never heard of the December 69 version until now. If you don't mind sharing, is the M14 or M21 (with ART) mentioned in that version (other than M14s mounted with Starlights)?
Thanks.

 

[westhewelder]

I am looking for the USMC sniper manual from Vietnam with the M40 rifle and the Redfield scope. It is NOT the M40A1.
It is to go along with an M40 I am having built for a scout sniper as a gift.
Thanks for any help. I think it is dated 1969. I do not know for sure

 

[Defender3]

I am looking for the USMC sniper manual from Vietnam with the M40 rifle and the Redfield scope. It is NOT the M40A1.
It is to go along with an M40 I am having built for a scout sniper as a gift.
Thanks for any help. I think it is dated 1969. I do not know for sure

I believe FMFM 1-3B "Sniping" is what you seek. As far as I'm aware, it was the first USMC manual produced during the Vietnam era, and dated 5 August of 1969 (inner page). There are repros on eBay and originals pop up from time to time. It was also mentioned earlier in the post that raparts sells the manual on CD for $20. The manual is small, about 7" by 5" and a couple of hundred pages.

I know there is some back and forth in the thread about August and December versions, but there may be some confusion as to the publication date of August 1969 and some of the copies' outer covers that show a stamped date of distribution within a unit or section. For example, the picture is the cover of my August 1969 copy showing the stamped distribution dated November of 1969. Other pictures of original manuals have a December distribution date which may have started the discussion.

 

[westhewelder]

Thank you Sir. You are a scholar.
I have waisted enough money chasing parts, pieces and manuals . A lot of Shtuff pops up when you type in FMFM .....

 

[westhewelder]

I believe FMFM 1-3B "Sniping" is what you seek. As far as I'm aware, it was the first USMC manual produced during the Vietnam era, and dated 5 August of 1969 (inner page). There are repros on eBay and originals pop up from time to time. It was also mentioned earlier in the post that raparts sells the manual on CD for $20. The manual is small, about 7" by 5" and a couple of hundred pages.

I know there is some back and forth in the thread about August and December versions, but there may be some confusion as to the publication date of August 1969 and some of the copies' outer covers that show a stamped date of distribution within a unit or section. For example, the picture is the cover of my August 1969 copy showing the stamped distribution dated November of 1969. Other pictures of original manuals have a December distribution date which may have started the discussion.

I just purchased one from Amazon third party seller. It has a different cover, red and black with the M40 silhouette.
I hope this ends my search. Thanks again

 

[Defender3]

That sounds like one of the repros. I ordered the same from eBay just to see how it compared to an original, but it won't arrive until next week.

 

[Defender3]

FWIW - I received my repro copy today, it's the one with the black and red cover, EGA and M40 rifle. It is not a copy of the 1969 version of FMFM 1-3B; it appears to be a copy of the 28 January 1981 version as it pictures the transitional version of the 10X Unertl.

 

[westhewelder]

Mine have not arrived bit that is good info
I will return to sender.
I have finally found 90% of the correct parts for the M40 build. I am minus the three screw trigger and the bottom metal is not correct. Scope, base, rings, etc....all correct. That darn manual is tough to find

 

[westhewelder]

I received a copy, today, of another person of the manual. It claims to be the updated better copy. It has nothing in it from the 60's and possibly the 70's.
This manual is the one with a current picture of Marines in theater on the cover.
That manual might start with the A3. Nothing at all of the M40.
I bought two coppies of the red and black one you referred to and you are saying they are incorrect. The damn thing does not exist in reprint and I am tired of spending money tying to find it.

 

[westhewelder]

I believe FMFM 1-3B "Sniping" is what you seek. As far as I'm aware, it was the first USMC manual produced during the Vietnam era, and dated 5 August of 1969 (inner page). There are repros on eBay and originals pop up from time to time. It was also mentioned earlier in the post that raparts sells the manual on CD for $20. The manual is small, about 7" by 5" and a couple of hundred pages.

I know there is some back and forth in the thread about August and December versions, but there may be some confusion as to the publication date of August 1969 and some of the copies' outer covers that show a stamped date of distribution within a unit or section. For example, the picture is the cover of my August 1969 copy showing the stamped distribution dated November of 1969. Other pictures of original manuals have a December distribution date which may have started the discussion.

I found two coppies and purchased them.
One is dark brown and the other is yellow like the picture you posted.
The M40 rifles will be completed in Jan Feb time frame with the correct scope and mount with rings. Thanks for your help

 

[westhewelder]

I believe FMFM 1-3B "Sniping" is what you seek. As far as I'm aware, it was the first USMC manual produced during the Vietnam era, and dated 5 August of 1969 (inner page). There are repros on eBay and originals pop up from time to time. It was also mentioned earlier in the post that raparts sells the manual on CD for $20. The manual is small, about 7" by 5" and a couple of hundred pages.

I know there is some back and forth in the thread about August and December versions, but there may be some confusion as to the publication date of August 1969 and some of the copies' outer covers that show a stamped date of distribution within a unit or section. For example, the picture is the cover of my August 1969 copy showing the stamped distribution dated November of 1969. Other pictures of original manuals have a December distribution date which may have started the discussion.

 

[Defender3]

Nice! I've not seen the brown one before. If you run across another, please give me a shout as I'd like to add it to the collection. Is is a side opening book or a top opening? Also, what is the date of the brown copy? TIA.

 

[westhewelder]

Nice! I've not seen the brown one before. If you run across another, please give me a shout as I'd like to add it to the collection. Is is a side opening book or a top opening? Also, what is the date of the brown copy? TIA.

 

[westhewelder]

 

[westhewelder]

This is from the brown book. Most of the salty Marines I know have the brown copy

 

[Defender3]

Thanks.

 

[westhewelder]

Sorry, the brown book opens from the bottom to the top. If I find another copy I will let you know. I need to look for the FMFM 1-3A that you have.

 

[westhewelder]

Nice! I've not seen the brown one before. If you run across another, please give me a shout as I'd like to add it to the collection. Is is a side opening book or a top opening? Also, what is the date of the brown copy? TIA.

Here is the Vietnam sniping manual from 1966-1977 I guess. A crazy price !!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-SNIPI...796302?hash=item1a6f52068e:g:rXUAAOSwmPlcNQI3

 

[Defender3]

JMHO, but that's not a bad price for a 50 year old manual that's hard to find.

 

[westhewelder]

That's crazy money for a Marine Corps Manual. They are out there, you just have to be patient.

 

[westhewelder]

I found mine for $40 recently. The yellow one was $36. It appears to be a proof for the rewright of the brown manual. Not sure but I am proud to own them.

 

[westhewelder]

Defender 3 could probably tell is about the yellow manual with the stamps ECT on it. I believe it was in between the 1969 and the first, (Maj Land), when ever that was published. 1967 maybe?

 

[westhewelder]

Reprint 30 Sept 1977. I wonder if the book stayed brown and small for the reprint?