Looking for an annealing set up, recomendations

[XLR308]

I am way past the point of needing an annealing set up and curious what would be recomended by members with experience and hands on knowledge with the various set ups available these days.
I drug my feet recently and didnt capitalize on a couple of good deals on Bench Source set ups that im sure wou,d have served my purposes quite well and really am not convinced that spending nearly four times as much on an AMP set up would yield any better results than those machines when properly calibrated.
I have been looking at the Fluxeon Annie set ups and am interested in those as well as some of the propane machines just curious what the experienced users of both have to say either positive or negatives.
I am a very detail oriented individual so have no issue with proper set up and implementation so dont really think i need a GI dummy proof machine like an AMP.

 

[straightshooter1]

I too am a very detail oriented individual and so the AMP certainly caught my attention and took a close look at it. IMHO, the AMP is a great machine and capable of doing virtually a perfect annealing job on brass cases. But, I find the price point is too high when looking at cost to benefit for me and I think also for most reloaders. Frankly, I just don't see where such precise annealing yields much benefit over something like Giraud's Cartridge Case Annealer or even the Annealeez machine (which is what I happen to use). As good as the AMP is, I feel the Bench-Source machine is very good and the price point verses benefit makes more sense to me. It's really not hard to get a good annealing job using a flame.

 

[secondofangle2]

I have giraud and AMP. I kept the Giraud for volume use and got AMP guided for the big stuff - 338, 375, 50 BMG.
If I were just getting started, for the price, Anealeez would be the no-brainer.
If I were the kinda guy who had to have “the best” I’d get AMP.

Or do like I did and get an automatic torch setup to start and grow into an AMP, keeping the torch for the 223 and 308 bulk stuff where “perfect” is an oxymoron

 

[spife7980]

I like the annie because there is no real set up besides choosing the correct sized jaws. Just turn the dial to the proper time you want and youre there and you dont have to worry about any fire.

 

[smoooth1]

While a little more "hands on", most folks have a drill, a deep well socket and a torch. The auto transformer is nice for lowering the drill speed and locking it "on". A few seconds of counting, + or - depending on cartridge and Viola, annealing done easily and inexpensively

 

[XLR308]

View attachment 7187544


While a little more "hands on", most folks have a drill, a deep well socket and a torch. The auto transformer is nice for lowering the drill speed and locking it "on". A few seconds of counting, + or - depending on cartridge and Viola, annealing done easily and inexpensively

I had considered that and have experimented with that method years ago but figured with what I have invested in probably 1000 pieces of Lapua brass I would rather have both automation to a certain extent and better consistency.

 

[flyright]

I've been very happy with my Annie - thank you Spife for the pointers you provided. I can now just "set it and forget it" with the times I've settled on for 3 different brands of brass.

 

[XLR308]

For those of you using the Annie are you using the water cooled or regular work coils ?

 

[spife7980]

For those of you using the Annie are you using the water cooled or regular work coils ?

I use a regular coil and doing a batch of 300 lapua dasher at 3.2 second per outside in the Texas summer going through them as fast as I could and I didn’t over heat it to the point it’s thermal overload kicked in.

 

[shoot 51]

I’ve been using Bench Source for 3 years and it does work good

 

[ditter]

I've had the Annealeez for about 3 months now and it is great. Just load up a couple hundred cases and let it go. I only do 6.5CM, so I have it pre-set and I know the time and flame size by memory. It doesnt give that "Lapua type" case color like you get on an AMP, but I know it is working based on the ease of sizing and bullet seating. I anneal after every firing just because it's so easy. I try to streamline the process as much as possible, so I cant see myself loading individual cases into an AMP or Benchsource.

 

[XLR308]

I use a regular coil and doing a batch of 300 lapua dasher at 3.2 second per outside in the Texas summer going through them as fast as I could and I didn’t over heat it to the point it’s thermal overload kicked in.

That's kind of what I figured and exactly the kind of feedback I'm after.
I had read about some issues with the early models and over heating but it's kind of hard to sift through what is actual issues and bullshit that is usually self induced by people that can't be bothered to actually read a manual or instructions.

 

[flyright]

No water cooling for my Annie and I normally do 100 - 200 rounds in a session - I've never hit the thermal limit. In fact, when I contacted the manufacturer and told them the number I'd be doing at a time, they told me no water cooling would be required.

 

[TxWelder35]

Did mine with a oxy acy torch and drill the other day.

 

[secondofangle2]

At the price point of Annie I see no point. For induction AMP is the way to go

 

[nobeone]

Other than the AMP, other methods make assumptions about brass composition and appear to be based primarily on achieving an 'annealed' color or a certain temperature range. With these assumptions, you may or may not be achieving correct annealing of your brass. As an engineer, I have always been required to verify my assumptions when performing analyses. For that reason, I went with the AMP which does have metallurgical testing backing up their product. Would I purchase again - yes, especially with the Black Friday sale going on now.

 

[b2lee]

Yea...A lot of people think...just because their brass has turned colors it is properly annealed. Half the brass I've seen from friends is over annealed...or annealed too far down.

 

[sleeplz]

Brass Annealing Machine For Sale | Buy Now | AMP

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$200 off.

 

[b2lee]

Brass Annealing Machine For Sale | Buy Now | AMP

shop.ampannealing.com

$200 off.

$200 off... AND 3 free pilots... AND free shipping in the US of A.

 

[Datsrboi]

I do not shoot as much as some of you guys in here. I went with a company call Annealeez and its been amazing. I used to do it manually with a drill but it was inconsistent. Since using annealeez my time has been cut hugely and my shots SD and all has been so much better. Its maybe the cheapest route over the power drill that I recommend.

 

[sinister]

I've used a Ken Light annealer over ten years. Ken used to sell them, he died I think and Brian Crawford (the guy who manufactured them for Ken) is selling them under his company, now.

 

[XLR308]

Other than the AMP, other methods make assumptions about brass composition and appear to be based primarily on achieving an 'annealed' color or a certain temperature range. With these assumptions, you may or may not be achieving correct annealing of your brass. As an engineer, I have always been required to verify my assumptions when performing analyses. For that reason, I went with the AMP which does have metallurgical testing backing up their product. Would I purchase again - yes, especially with the Black Friday sale going on now.

I understand your point and reasoning but assumptions are for those that don't or won't for whatever reason read and follow instructions.
Finding the proper time and heat is all in the set up and use of the proper tempilac.
If someone buys an automated machine specifically designed for annealing brass but doesn't do the single most important step then what's the point.

 

[nobeone]

I understand your point and reasoning but assumptions are for those that don't or won't for whatever reason read and follow instructions.
Finding the proper time and heat is all in the set up and use of the proper tempilac.
If someone buys an automated machine specifically designed for annealing brass but doesn't do the single most important step then what's the point.

Following instructions is not the same as making an assumption. Whoever wrote those annealing instructions may have made assumptions that you may not be aware of. Heck, I have made an assumption that AMP did the proper programming for their Aztec mode for my annealing. I am not an annealing expert but over the past 5 months I have annealed quite a bit of brass and have made a the following observations for consideration.
1) I had one experience annealing about 400 pieces of 44 Magnum brass that was all Fiocchi with identical headstamps. Following annealing, I noticed 48 of those cases had partial melting at the mouth while the remainder looked all perfect. Following some communication with AMP, I determined that one of the boxes of ammo that I purchased was done at a different time and clearly the material composition of the brass was considerably different than the other brass.
2) There is a considerable difference in brass between different brands and even different lots within a brand even beyond that noted above The most significant difference I have noted is between Hornady and Prime brass for 260 Remington. The anneal code for Hornady brass is 0136 whlle the Prime anneal code is 0157 by Aztec analysis. For 308 brass, the range of anneal codes for my brass ranges from 0147 to 0166. The higher code is hotter. Anneal codes for brass from the same manufacturer tends to have a tighter (but not identical) anneal code range even with different lots. I have no correlation for what temperatures these codes achieve.
3) There is a wide variety of post annealing colors I have seen for a variety of 308 brass even with anneal code settings very close together. Based on this I have concluded that color alone is not a good indicator of annealing.
4) I have noticed that bullet seating force is noticeably less for annealed brass than it is for non-annealed brass.

So what does all this mean? First and foremost, not all brass is created equal nor has the same material composition. It follows that different alloys have different properties and stress-strain curves and thus, different required temperatures/time for proper annealing. I really don't see how tempilac does anything other than tell you what temperature range the brass has achieved. If testing supporting whatever annealing method you choose has been done for the full range of brass available great. I have not personally seen any evidence that is the case. Please do not consider this as promoting one method or another as I have nothing to gain or lose whatever anyone chooses or if they choose not to anneal. It is just information that could be used in deciding what is best for a consumer.

 

[FrankinND]

I've used a Ken Light annealer over ten years. Ken used to sell them, he died I think and Brian Crawford (the guy who manufactured them for Ken) is selling them under his company, now.

View attachment 7189420

I love the look of the Ken light annealer that’s what I learned on.

 

[XLR308]

Following instructions is not the same as making an assumption. Whoever wrote those annealing instructions may have made assumptions that you may not be aware of. Heck, I have made an assumption that AMP did the proper programming for their Aztec mode for my annealing. I am not an annealing expert but over the past 5 months I have annealed quite a bit of brass and have made a the following observations for consideration.
1) I had one experience annealing about 400 pieces of 44 Magnum brass that was all Fiocchi with identical headstamps. Following annealing, I noticed 48 of those cases had partial melting at the mouth while the remainder looked all perfect. Following some communication with AMP, I determined that one of the boxes of ammo that I purchased was done at a different time and clearly the material composition of the brass was considerably different than the other brass.
2) There is a considerable difference in brass between different brands and even different lots within a brand even beyond that noted above The most significant difference I have noted is between Hornady and Prime brass for 260 Remington. The anneal code for Hornady brass is 0136 whlle the Prime anneal code is 0157 by Aztec analysis. For 308 brass, the range of anneal codes for my brass ranges from 0147 to 0166. The higher code is hotter. Anneal codes for brass from the same manufacturer tends to have a tighter (but not identical) anneal code range even with different lots. I have no correlation for what temperatures these codes achieve.
3) There is a wide variety of post annealing colors I have seen for a variety of 308 brass even with anneal code settings very close together. Based on this I have concluded that color alone is not a good indicator of annealing.
4) I have noticed that bullet seating force is noticeably less for annealed brass than it is for non-annealed brass.

So what does all this mean? First and foremost, not all brass is created equal nor has the same material composition. It follows that different alloys have different properties and stress-strain curves and thus, different required temperatures/time for proper annealing. I really don't see how tempilac does anything other than tell you what temperature range the brass has achieved. If testing supporting whatever annealing method you choose has been done for the full range of brass available great. I have not personally seen any evidence that is the case. Please do not consider this as promoting one method or another as I have nothing to gain or lose whatever anyone chooses or if they choose not to anneal. It is just information that could be used in deciding what is best for a consumer.

Those are great assumptions and very detailed analysys on all the button pushing.
But what are you truly learning about annealing ?
I mean you are completly relying on a machine to make all determinations and calibrations for you so really you aren't learning anything.
I wonder how many benchrest and long range accuracy records were set and broken by shooters using nothing more than a propane torch, drill and socket and a metronome.

 

[davere]

This likely isn't for everyone, but I built a GinaErick annealer myself for a little under $500. It's an induction annealer with built in timers. It could be adapted to a casefeed (and several folks have done so), and more advanced controls. If you're a DIYer and like tinkering - and have the time, it was a fun project.

The thread w/ plans, etc, is here: http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/induction-brass-annealer-redux.3908353/ - and a video of my annealer (with it's "amazing" carpentry) in action is here:

 

[nobeone]

Those are great assumptions and very detailed analysys on all the button pushing.
But what are you truly learning about annealing ?
I mean you are completly relying on a machine to make all determinations and calibrations for you so really you aren't learning anything.
I wonder how many benchrest and long range accuracy records were set and broken by shooters using nothing more than a propane torch, drill and socket and a metronome.

Have actually learned plenty some of which is summarized above. As to the rest of my thoughts with respect to your post, I will just keep them to myself.

 

[XLR308]

Have actually learned plenty some of which is summarized above. As to the rest of my thoughts with respect to your post, I will just keep them to myself.

I wasn't entirely trying to just your balls on the issue just wanting to evoke a little thought.
I personally do think the AMP machine is great for what it is but even with the black Friday pricing it's still about $350-400 out of touch from being competitive with other comparable set ups.
Does it allow individuals the luxury of being able to just push buttons and roll, sure it does but that comes with a premium that in my opinion is just way overpriced and prevents people from learning what it is they are actually doing.
I'm sure part of the issue is I'm just old school with certain things and have had to learn much of what I have over the years much of which was before the world was at your fingertips via the internet.