Looking into a wet tumbler with stainless steel pins - advice welcomed

[RPRlongshot]

I have been tumbling my pistol brass for years using a Dillon vibratory tumbler. Results are good but now that I'm getting into .308 reloading I'm thinking about a wet tumbler to use with stainless media.
I noticed when making .300 AAC brass the vibratory tumbler media just doesn't get inside the case or primer pocket very well.
Which tumbler are you guys using?
Any input would be appreciated.

 

[gpowers]

I've been using the Thumler's Tumbler for about nine months. It has worked very well for me. It will hold two pounds of brass and takes roughly an hour to get the brass clean. It does a good job getting the inside clean along with the primer pockets.

 

[GhengisAhn175]

Frankford arsenal tumbler

 

[Citius7]

Rebel 17. Gets everything I throw at it super clean. It's amazing. Pistol shot as rifle. The only issue is run into is that my pins fit perfectly in my 6.5mm brass and they sometimes get stuck. Also I usually make a point to re-chamfer due to the pins knocking my edge off. Not a big deal for better than factory looking brass. In my mind. Nothing comes close to the cleanliness of the stainless media. I check it after one hour. If it still needs more I usually drain the black water and replace with new water and continue to tumble for up to 3 hours if I have to. But most stuff is very clean and takes only one hour. I use a spot of dawn dish soap and a pinch of Lemon Shine. Hope this helps. Your on the right track. Maybe add more pins to your setup?

 

[flyright]

A squirt of dish soap and a dash of lemon shine and 1 1/2 hours tumbling in the STM Rebel 17 with deprimed brass - looks like new including the primer pockets. 15 minutes in a 200 degree oven and then a quick trim and/or camfer and you're good to go. It comes with (I think) 5lbs of pins. You can easily do 100 .308 type cases in a batch.

 

[OzTRG]

+ 1 for the thumbler. I'll run 100x 300WM through it at a time for about 1 1/2 to 2hrs and it comes out looking like new. Inside and primer pockets are absolutely clean. Only one I have experience with but I rate it.

 

[TripleBull]

Also I usually make a point to re-chamfer due to the pins knocking my edge off.

Hearing similar accounts has kept me from going to stainless tumbling. Basically, it's about worrying that the pins peen the brass and work harden it. I've never seen any real data like microhardness testing so it could be all hand-wringing and no facts, dunno.

 

[Stpilot12]

Been using the Thumlers for about two years.. love it
I don't deprime my pistol brass cuz it just gets dumped into the 650 hopper. Rifle brass I deprime and rechamfer post... picture worth a thousand words

 

[quietmike]

Home made frame and motor with a Big Dawg drum.

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

I've been using the Rebel 17 for about two years now. I still use my vibratory tumbler to clean up old pulled bullets or something like that. But for dirty brass, its stainless all the way. Like flyright said, a good squirt of Dawn, just a dash of Lemi-Shine and your GTG. I don't oven dry anymore though. It was tarnishing my freshly cleaned brass. I towel and air dry now.
I ran 900 9mm cases through mine on Saturday. I thought it may be too heavy, but it ran no problem. It just kept on going

 

[polizei1]

HF cement mixer

 

[JRM]

Rebel 17 here as well. SS is the only way to go in my opinion. Like citius, minor issues of the media being lodged in cases. Just a quick visual and a push from a small screwdriver and you are GTG.

 

[Hawk in WY]

Agree wet tumbling has a place in brass processing. Results are spectacular if you like bling brass.

I cannot recommend the Rebel tumblers, however. Well built but their customer service is really bad.

No response to multiple emails. Not helpful when they do respond. Unusual in an industry known for generally great customer service.

There are are better choices

 

[Hawk in WY]

Agree wet tumbling has a place in brass processing. Results are spectacular if you like bling brass.

I cannot recommend the Rebel tumblers, however. Well built but their customer service is really bad.

No response to multiple emails. Not helpful when they do respond. Unusual in an industry known for generally great customer service.

There are are better choices

 

[elfster1234]

This is why I would stick with the thumlers or rebel 17.... clean two different types of brass OR two types of the same brass but with different fires on the brass at the same time...

https://youtube.com/watch?v=YXiucGdUVmQ

[video]https://youtube.com/watch?v=YXiucGdUVmQ[/video]

 

[GhengisAhn175]

Cases from a frankford arsenal

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...e-reloading/6372591-pre-soak-before-ss-tumble

thats 200 pieces 308 win and 300 pieces of 260 Remington

 

[Sendit6.5]

X2 on the Frankford Arsenal tumbler. I love mine and the shiny clean brass it produces!

Hearing similar accounts has kept me from going to stainless tumbling. Basically, it's about worrying that the pins peen the brass and work harden it. I've never seen any real data like microhardness testing so it could be all hand-wringing and no facts, dunno.

I've never seen any evidence of this, personally. I think it's unnecessary worry, like you said, but I just ordered an AMP Annealer which comes with the ability to send brass in for laboratory analysis, to create custom annealing programs. They have the means to test for micro hardening. I may just send in some for testing in 2 batches - one annealed and another that's been annealed and then cleaned in my tumbler with SS media. Let them compare the 2 batches and see if there's and detectable difference. It'd be nice to know, once and for all.

 

[ctso030]

frankford arsenal works great, i had a problem with my fisrt one , no questions asked they sent me a brand new one

 

[Devildog]

I never thought I'd buy a Franklin Arsenal anything, ended up with the tumbler and the brass dryer and they have both been great.

 

[RPRlongshot]

Agree wet tumbling has a place in brass processing. Results are spectacular if you like bling brass.

I cannot recommend the Rebel tumblers, however. Well built but their customer service is really bad.

No response to multiple emails. Not helpful when they do respond. Unusual in an industry known for generally great customer service.

There are are better choices

Thanks for all the input so far it's sending me down the right road. The Rebel 17 sounds like a plan but I'll need to look into this customer service issue.

 

[JRM]

I had an issue when I first bought my Rebel 17. The switch mechanism was broken on the cord upon arrival and they responded within minutes through email and sent another switch out same day. I replaced it since it was a simple inline roller style switch found on a lot of lamps and easily acquired at any hardware store. This was roughly 3 years ago so a lot can change in that timeframe.

 

[orkan]

Hearing similar accounts has kept me from going to stainless tumbling. Basically, it's about worrying that the pins peen the brass and work harden it. I've never seen any real data like microhardness testing so it could be all hand-wringing and no facts, dunno.

Fact: Stainless tumbled brass shoots worse than brass tumbled in regular vibratory tumblers.

Sure the case mouths get rolled over, but that can be trimmed/chamfered off. The problem is the necks themselves. The lubricity of the previous firings carbon residue on the neck is quite desirable for consistent bullet release. A wet process ruins this. A wet process with stainless pins cleans it down to bare metal and ruins it even more.

None of this will stop you from shooting 1/2moa or maybe even a bit better depending upon the component combination. You can do better if you are very attentive to seating pressure and cull your rounds out as you should. However you can forget about stainless tumbling if you don't want to cull out 50% of your loaded rounds. I switched to stainless because I hated the dust generated by corn cob and walnut. I switched back to vibratory because I hated the wet process and the condition of the necks/mouths. The key was finding the right media that didn't clog flash holes and solved the dust problem. I'm quite happy now.

http://www.primalrights.com/articles/clean-brass-with-rice

 

[lightman]

I bought the Big Dawg several years ago, with the big drum, I run a Thumblers drum on it when I do smaller batches. I use LemiShine and ArmorAll wash and wax. The stainless media will clean better and faster than corncob or walnut if you really want your brass to glisten. It will also clean brass that walnut will never get clean. Sorting the brass from the pins and drying it is a little hassle but not a big one.

 

[RPRlongshot]

I unpacked my Rebel 17 and it looks about as quality made as all the rest of the Chinese made crap we have all become accustomed to.
Ran a batch of .308 through it and in 2 hours they were like new inside and out.
I am happy with it but would prefer something made in USA but if it were it would have probably cost 600-700 bucks not 329.Lemi-shine.

 

[Sendit6.5]

FWIW - Turns out there IS actually some scientific data that tumbling with stainless pins DOES work harden brass. I recently bought an AMP annealer and was talking with Alex Findlay and they ran hardness tests with their equipment and found that tumbling with ss pins increased hardness by 30hv or more!

I'm still going to use my Frankford Arsenal tumbler but I'm going to be annealing every reload. I'm not sure I'd be using ss if I didn't have the means/time to anneal every reload. My big concern now is what effect my ss tumbling has on the web of my 300wm brass. I can negate the hardening on the necks but what about the web area?


As for the lubricity lost in case necks with wet tumbling. I use imperial sizing wax on the bearing surface of my bullets when seating. I learned this little trick to help with consistent seating depth and when loading ammo that may sit on a shelf for a while (from one season to the next) it stops the 'bonding' that often occurs between the bullet and the case neck, causing a different type of release compared to freshly loaded ammo. Using this method, I see very little difference between my ss tumbled brass and my vibratory cleaned brass.

 

[AuburnBLK]

Fact: Stainless tumbled brass shoots worse than brass tumbled in regular vibratory tumblers.

Sure the case mouths get rolled over, but that can be trimmed/chamfered off. The problem is the necks themselves. The lubricity of the previous firings carbon residue on the neck is quite desirable for consistent bullet release. A wet process ruins this. A wet process with stainless pins cleans it down to bare metal and ruins it even more.

None of this will stop you from shooting 1/2moa or maybe even a bit better depending upon the component combination. You can do better if you are very attentive to seating pressure and cull your rounds out as you should. However you can forget about stainless tumbling if you don't want to cull out 50% of your loaded rounds. I switched to stainless because I hated the dust generated by corn cob and walnut. I switched back to vibratory because I hated the wet process and the condition of the necks/mouths. The key was finding the right media that didn't clog flash holes and solved the dust problem. I'm quite happy now.

http://www.primalrights.com/articles/clean-brass-with-rice

This is some interesting stuff. I like me clean primer pockets... but I'll be giving this further consideration. I can see the login in loosing the carbon inside the necks, also it's a pain to camfer/debur after each firing

 

[TripleBull]

FWIW - Turns out there IS actually some scientific data that tumbling with stainless pins DOES work harden brass. I recently bought an AMP annealer and was talking with Alex Findlay and they ran hardness tests with their equipment and found that tumbling with ss pins increased hardness by 30hv or more!

Good to know. I should ask Alex if the did a blank run to compare - meaning everything in the tumbler except the SS. Just tumbling cases might work harden, particularly the mouth.

 

[orkan]

I've often wondered where the idea started that it was good or necessary for brass to be clean inside and out. I was happy to try the stainless and wet process, simply because I was tired of dealing with the toxic dust generated by traditional media. Though the rice has stopped both problems for me.

 

[AuburnBLK]

I've often wondered where the idea started that it was good or necessary for brass to be clean inside and out. I was happy to try the stainless and wet process, simply because I was tired of dealing with the toxic dust generated by traditional media. Though the rice has stopped both problems for me.

Great question. I guess "super shinny, like new" brass sells to the masses. I'm giving rice serious consideration.

Orkan - do you clean up your primer pockets further after rice vibrating? I'm just assuming it doesn't get them as clean as SS. Quit possibly another example of diminishing returns

 

[spife7980]

Orkan - do you clean up your primer pockets further after rice vibrating? I'm just assuming it doesn't get them as clean as SS. Quit possibly another example of diminishing returns

I think it gets them about like any other vibratory media, a bit but not quite. Good uniform pockets and a scraper are the best aside from wet methods.

My question for Orkan: how is the rice less toxic than the walnut or corncob? Its the left over residue deposits from firing and not the media thats toxic, correct?

 

[orkan]

I think it gets them about like any other vibratory media, a bit but not quite. Good uniform pockets and a scraper are the best aside from wet methods.

My question for Orkan: how is the rice less toxic than the walnut or corncob? Its the left over residue deposits from firing and not the media thats toxic, correct?

Correct, the deposits from firing are toxic. With corncob and similar media, it is largely scraped off and it generally settles at the bottom of the vibrator bowl as well as is suspended in the media. During separation, this stuff takes to the air. If you've read the article I linked above on rice tumbling, you'll see that this toxic stuff is actually embedded into the rice. NONE is left suspended or at the bottom of the tumbler bowl.

Great question. I guess "super shinny, like new" brass sells to the masses. I'm giving rice serious consideration.

Orkan - do you clean up your primer pockets further after rice vibrating? I'm just assuming it doesn't get them as clean as SS. Quit possibly another example of diminishing returns

The rice gets the pockets somewhat clean, but not as clean as a long run in stainless. However, part of tumbling in rice is making sure you get it all out. So during separation I am usually poking and inspecting the flash hole anyway, so I just give the pocket a swirl with the decapping rod and that dislodges whatever else happens to be there. It's actually very loose at that point and easily scraped off.

By being more attentive like this during media separation, it has allowed me to more closely inspect cases. I have found numerous cases with creased shoulders/necks and various other deformities that I had not caught with other methods. There's a benefit to being thorough and methodical in all things.

 

[AuburnBLK]

Might be a matter of picking my poison. Camfer and Debur each firing with SS tumble (as i've been doing for awhile) or clean primer holes with vibrator and rice.

The factor i'm left with is the carbon residue on inside of necks. A small factor in chasing that sub 1/2 MOA performance. I have a buddy who has been meaning to experiment with dipping his SS tumbled necks in graphite (he's probably lurking here). Curious what those results might yield.

 

[spife7980]

Correct, the deposits from firing are toxic. With corncob and similar media, it is largely scraped off and it generally settles at the bottom of the vibrator bowl as well as is suspended in the media. During separation, this stuff takes to the air. If you've read the article I linked above on rice tumbling, you'll see that this toxic stuff is actually embedded into the rice. NONE is left suspended or at the bottom of the tumbler bowl.

It has been awhile since I read it and didnt remember the embedded part. Your rice method was/is on my list though after I use up all of my current corn cob.