LPVO/Red Dot

[BB24]

Hey guys, first post here but have referred to forums on here a long time while doing research for a number of things. I have a question I know has probably been beat to hell but have a decision to make soon and want some input. The question is LPVO vs Red Dot and here’s a rundown on the surrounding info:

I work in LE and assigned to patrol as well as SWAT. On SWAT I’m one of the point guys which obviously means working the door from the threshold and eventually making entry as number one or two man. Most of our SWAT calls are high risk search/arrest warrants but sometimes a good barricade where there might be some distance between us and the structure. The gun is a Larue 12” with a Dead Air Sandman S.

So as it’s sits I run a MRO but we are making a change and being given the option to choose what we want and this is where I’m struggling. We are currently trying out a few different optics and I’m torn between the Aimpoint CompM5 and out of the LPVO the Vortex Razor 1-6. I’ve only had one training day with it but close shots seemed very similar speed wise. Obviously there are pros and cons, LPVO will be a lot more weight added and the eye shadow seems like it might be a problem. I like the magnification option for gathering intel on a structure or situation and improved accuracy at long distance. I worry about the CQB with the LPVO and the weight with the light and peq and everything else. My real question is what do y’all think is the better option for my specific job and what the requirements are, is it better to stick with the red dot or transition to the LPVO. Have y’all had a chance to work both options a lot and what do you think? Thanks for any and all info.

 

[houndog]

I'm just a civilian so never in a situation where someone might potentially be shooting back at me. And most of my shooting is a lot less dynamic than what you are doing. So keep that in mind when considering my comments.

However, have been shooting for 20+ years and have a number of red dots and the Vortex Razor you are considering. I also own a LaRue 12.5" upper, so I'm pretty familiar with your set up. The Vortex is a great scope and has a good eye box, however, it is a beast and it is never going to be as fast as a red dot. Not sure I'd really want it on an SBR particularly where 90-95% of the time I'm going to find myself in CQB situations.

How about an Aimpoint or Eotech with a 3x magnifier? That way, when you're busting through a door you can just flip the magnifier out of the way, but if you're in a situation where some magnification might be useful, it's readily available.

 

[Evintos]

Red dot + magnifier combo. It's easier with a red dot shooting around/under vehicles and barricades. Also usable with passive aiming (assuming you're issued NVG's due to the PEQ).

 

[BB24]

We will be switching to a Mawl soon so positional shooting would become quite a bit easier with an LPVO. Yea NVGs and gas masks as well would complicate running an LPVO but with a Mawl doable but idk if I would want to only rely on that.

 

[EM_556]

I personally have tried both setups. I have settled on LVPO 1-6 with a 35 deg off set RMR. Best combination of both scenarios. Quick transitions and effective target ID

 

[BB24]

I personally have tried both setups. I have settled on LVPO 1-6 with a 35 deg off set RMR. Best combination of both scenarios. Quick transitions and effective target ID

That does sound like the best option but I don’t think admin will give us quite enough money to make it happen. What lpvo did you settle on?

 

[TurboTrout]

If it’s in a house, I’d go with a large window red dot, ideally one of the options where you have a 65MOA ring with a 1MOA dot, not in your line of work, but if it’s in structures I can’t see really needing magnification as much as needing speed and less junk to swing on that rifle.

 

[NateSavannah]

I tried replacing my eotech + magnifier with a vortex 1-10. Couldnt do it. just couldnt get happy behind it. didnt like the 1x didnt like the 10x.
found myself in a place where if I need more than a dot with magnifier, Ill get a real scope. non lpvo if you will.

Will also say, I just put a compm5s on my APC9K and its the finest red dot Ive ever had. def recommend it. The S is also recommended by alot over the regular due to the fact that battery compartment on the top hasnt done well with the youtube personalities. doesnt take all the much banging on it to mess up the battery compartment. not that we purposefully bang on our shit, but goes against aimpoints bulletproof reputation when it breaks like it has in these videos.

 

[GH41]

I have tried LPVOs twice and came back to the MRO. You would have to have a death wish to bust doors with LPVO IMO.

 

[strikeeagle1]

I have setup this Noveske N4 10.5" with Aimpoint CompM4s with / without 3x magnifier as well as with a S&B 1.1-4x Short Dot (5.4 moa dot) with an easy to read reticle if needed. A folding stock adapter is the best accessory for these SBR's.

 

[TurboTrout]

I have setup this Noveske N4 10.5" with Aimpoint CompM4s with / without 3x magnifier as well as with a S&B 1.1-4x Short Dot (5.4 moa dot) with an easy to read reticle if needed. A folding stock adapter is the best accessory for these SBR's.

View attachment 7582384View attachment 7582385View attachment 7582387View attachment 7582388View attachment 7582392View attachment 7582393View attachment 7582394

That’s a busy gun

 

[EM_556]

That does sound like the best option but I don’t think admin will give us quite enough money to make it happen. What lpvo did you settle on?

Mark 6 1-6

 

[CK1.0]

Retired LE here: for the job and all the other responsibilities, red dot all the way (MRO is probably the worst btw, it’s good you’re switching).

For your personal rifle: LPVO all the way (just does more and can still be fast at 1X/both eyes open).

 

[elwarpo]

I have tried LVPO, red dots... I like a fixed power sight (4-5x) and a micro red sitting on top. Sort of like a ACOG/RMR but prefer the Steiner T536 or T432. Illuminated rericle, NV compatible and high quality. I have a T532 with A Steiner MRS on top and it is my go to close to mid range system.

 

[Jonesing to shoot]

A couple of us on our team just tried a number of LPVO set ups and found pros and cons. We have some that are die hard Red dot guys but others were more open to it. We (who liked it) settled for a vortex pst 1-6 as best bang for the buck with a T-Rex arms offset mount with delta point or RMR as what we liked the best and was reasonable price point for our needs. A bit heavy but you’ll get use to it. Engagement times were right along with what they were with our EOtechs w/without mags but did provide a bit more flexibility when it came to small target engagement, PID, or visual intelligence.

 

[CK1.0]

You would have to have a death wish to bust doors with LPVO IMO.

IDK, if you train with one and get used to them, they can be run 99.9% as fast.

For solders in Afghanistan and that type of mission/terrain, door-kicking and a few hundred yards, the LPVO is the better tool IMO.

For an LEO, not many situations where engagements happen at extended distances beyond what a dot can handle.

 

[Matches Malone]

That does sound like the best option but I don’t think admin will give us quite enough money to make it happen. What lpvo did you settle on?

The best option is equipping for what situation you’ll be in most of the time.

I don’t WANT to know or care about the details, because you already know what YOU need. Special weapons and tactics should be using the weapons for the situation that compliments the tactics being used (budget allowing). If you’re county swat and work rural areas, perhaps a lpvo might be an option, but if your AO is in somewhere like down town Los Angeles...you don’t need a Lpvo.

As far as where the tactics and the equipment meet, if you’re engaging in actual no shit life and death cqb then you ought to know that while slicing the pie, entering a threshold and hitting easy or hard corners or even in limited penetration which is where YOU people usually end up against any formidable threat, you’re not going to want to be lost in a eye box that is a LPVO. Further more you are going to find it easier to fight with the forgiveness of a Eotech (or whatever). Conducting high risk warrants? Using NODS? Ever shoot like that with a LPVO or are you only going to rely on only the PEQ? What about precise shots? Lol zip up zip down right?

Try it some time, then do some force on force like that. You’ll see what I mean real quick if you’re not already experienced.

Better yet, take what you read on the internet with a grain of salt.

Most of people here don’t know what it’s like to be engaged in a conflict in which men with guns are actively trying to kill you. They speak from a place of what their favorite YouTubers opinion is half the time. Remember you’re not gearing up to shoot at paper targets under time and the end. There’s imperfect angles in weird thresholds with obstacles and obstructions to negotiate. “Faster” is subjective meaning to different people.

 

[BB24]

Retired LE here: for the job and all the other responsibilities, red dot all the way (MRO is probably the worst btw, it’s good you’re switching).

For your personal rifle: LPVO all the way (just does more and can still be fast at 1X/both eyes open).

Yea we’ve had multiple problems with the MRO with them not holding zero or the dot flickering and going out even with fresh batteries. I’m leaning that way now and currently building a personal one and that’s exactly what I’m going to do.

 

[strikeeagle1]

In the U.S.A, the longest average civilian SWAT team engagement distance is 57 yards. No need for a scope when kicking in doors, at the Rogers Shooting School enagagements at 150 meters using red dots only engaging 11 x 8" target plates in sub-second time frames is the standard.
Pick a red dot optic with a proper mount to give you the fastest sight picture acquisition, that will serve you well.

 

[EM_556]

In the U.S.A, the longest average civilian SWAT team engagement distance is 57 yards. No need for a scope when kicking in doors, at the Rogers Shooting School enagagements at 150 meters using red dots only engaging 11 x 8" target plates in sub-second time frames is the standard.
Pick a red dot optic with a proper mount to give you the fastest sight picture acquisition, that will serve you well.

If you are going around kicking down doors. You are going to die. In a real scenario, shots will be taken from a distance with an occasional up close.

 

[Matches Malone]

In the U.S.A, the longest average civilian SWAT team engagement distance is 57 yards.

In 1993 a swat police sniper, mike plumb of the Columbus PD shot a .38 out of a suspects hand....intentionally. It was recorded at 80 some odd yards away. I believe the furthest police “engagement” was 180 something yards in Pennsylvania.
The dude is probably on here. The point is...57y isn’t the National longest distance of police or swat specific “engagements.”

 

[Daddyusmaximus]

I don't have a big budget. I'm retired, and living on VA disability. My choices are not current top tier due to cost, but the reasons behind them come from the same experience as many of my brothers, so I hope I'm making sense here...

My LPVO is the Primary Arms 1-8. I do like it. In fact, I love it. The ACSS reticle was a huge selling point for me. It's very simple, and etched into the glass, so if the battery goes dead at a bad time... still works. In fact I almost never turn on the red dot illumination other than in low light. It's on my 18" Larue Tactical Stealth 2.0 RECCE that serves as my "do it all" gun. If I had to di-di with only one rifle, this would probably be it.

My home defense weapon is another story. I have 2 to chose from, and BOTH have red dots. 1. a Daniel Defense 10.3" pistol. It wears an Aimpoint Comp M4s, and a 3x magnifier. 2. a Spike's Tactical 10.3" SBR with a Sig Romeo 5.

There's a reason for this. NOTHING is faster than a red dot, and NOTHING has a more forgiving eyebox. It really is that simple.

I did 28 years in the U.S. Army. It wasn't 'till towards the end of my career that in my 40s, I did 3 combat deployments, and discovered a modern technological marvel... the red dot sight. Yes, I was a better, more experienced soldier than the young troops in my section because of my time in service, but what saved my ass on two separate occasions, was the speed of engagement provided by the red dot sight. I was NEVER that fast (even in my misspent youth) with irons, and I would never be that quick in a rush trying to get my face on the stock just right to avoid scope shadow before Haji could squeeze off a shot. TWICE my shot was on target, and Haji's was not. The speed that my brain can put that red dot on target... made all the difference.

I only have one Aimpoint because I can only afford one, but I have a Sig Romeo 5 on an AR, a lever gun, a Lee Enfield No 4 Mk 1...

I wish you the best on SWAT, whatever your job there will be, but if you're gonna be on the team as a door kicker...

GET THE RED DOT...

Go home to your family when you're don't with the shift.

There will be teammates on overwatch with better glass.

 

[Daddyusmaximus]

Almost forgot.. must post the gun porn...

 

[CK1.0]

Yea we’ve had multiple problems with the MRO with them not holding zero or the dot flickering and going out even with fresh batteries. I’m leaning that way now and currently building a personal one and that’s exactly what I’m going to do.

MY problem with the MRO is that they've always been fucked up since it was first released years ago, and they never actually fixed them completely and just kept BSing about it since they've never really stopped selling well. If you want one that's actually 1X and isn't distorted/fisheye you have to pay double and get the newer HD version, but that one's emitter is wonky lol.

I have had a bunch of Trijicon stuff, and still have 2 SRO's, so I'm no hater. But I'd honestly rather have any of like 10 other dots out there over an MRO because at least most of the others are actually 1X and don't give me a headache or distort everything I look at through them.
(P.S. the SRO's aren't 100% either, but miles better than the MRO's.)

 

[GH41]

MY problem with the MRO is that they've always been fucked up since it was first released years ago, and they never actually fixed them completely and just kept BSing about it since they've never really stopped selling well. If you want one that's actually 1X and isn't distorted/fisheye you have to pay double and get the newer HD version, but that one's emitter is wonky lol.

I have had a bunch of Trijicon stuff, and still have 2 SRO's, so I'm no hater. But I'd honestly rather have any of like 10 other dots out there over an MRO because at least most of the others are actually 1X and don't give me a headache or distort everything I look at through them.
(P.S. the SRO's aren't 100% either, but miles better than the MRO's.)

You are a haters but just aren't smart enough realize it.

 

[LawnMM]

You need some training with the LVPO as you'll see eye shadow and parallax inside a room, with a rifle, are pretty irrelevant. You'll hit the bad guy no problem.

We recently had LPVOs approved here and my work rifle has an LPVO because I'm not a door kicker and if I had to use it going into a room, I can. My AO has a lot of open space so the magnification and ability to dial are more desirable for me.

If I was kicking doors I'd have a red dot. My personal gun that's set up for NV has a red dot.

I'll share a somewhat pricey but effective option for somebody wearing multiple hats like you. Consider setting up a rifle with an LPVO for patrol work, and a separate rifle with a red dot, your mawl and NV stuff, for your SWAT duties.

 

[CK1.0]

You are a haters but just aren't smart enough realize it.

 

[mike278]

Never done the LE thing, but I had an Eotech on my M4 in Iraq and still think it's the best CQB sight I've ever had my hands on. YMMV

 

[Mac679]

Hey guys, first post here but have referred to forums on here a long time while doing research for a number of things. I have a question I know has probably been beat to hell but have a decision to make soon and want some input. The question is LPVO vs Red Dot and here’s a rundown on the surrounding info:

I work in LE and assigned to patrol as well as SWAT. On SWAT I’m one of the point guys which obviously means working the door from the threshold and eventually making entry as number one or two man. Most of our SWAT calls are high risk search/arrest warrants but sometimes a good barricade where there might be some distance between us and the structure. The gun is a Larue 12” with a Dead Air Sandman S.

So as it’s sits I run a MRO but we are making a change and being given the option to choose what we want and this is where I’m struggling. We are currently trying out a few different optics and I’m torn between the Aimpoint CompM5 and out of the LPVO the Vortex Razor 1-6. I’ve only had one training day with it but close shots seemed very similar speed wise. Obviously there are pros and cons, LPVO will be a lot more weight added and the eye shadow seems like it might be a problem. I like the magnification option for gathering intel on a structure or situation and improved accuracy at long distance. I worry about the CQB with the LPVO and the weight with the light and peq and everything else. My real question is what do y’all think is the better option for my specific job and what the requirements are, is it better to stick with the red dot or transition to the LPVO. Have y’all had a chance to work both options a lot and what do you think? Thanks for any and all info.

LPVO gives you the benefit of also being able to positively identify at longer distances. I've paced off 175m inside a Walmart walking from the automotive section to frozen foods. Sure, you might not take a shot that far, but you can always radio up a better description of a suspect. Someone mentioned an LPVO being better suited to Afghanistan than domestic LE. I've done 3 tours in Afghanistan and a long tour in Baghdad with an M68. My first trip to Afghanistan I used an EoTech. My last 2 I ran a personally purchased S&B Short Dot. An LPVO would have been a better all around choice for all of my deployments. The OP's profile says TX, but that's a pretty big area with significant amounts of rural area and open space where the LPVO will spank an RDS every time. Long city streets can make good use of magnification as well.

 

[BB24]

I don't have a big budget. I'm retired, and living on VA disability. My choices are not current top tier due to cost, but the reasons behind them come from the same experience as many of my brothers, so I hope I'm making sense here...

My LPVO is the Primary Arms 1-8. I do like it. In fact, I love it. The ACSS reticle was a huge selling point for me. It's very simple, and etched into the glass, so if the battery goes dead at a bad time... still works. In fact I almost never turn on the red dot illumination other than in low light. It's on my 18" Larue Tactical Stealth 2.0 RECCE that serves as my "do it all" gun. If I had to di-di with only one rifle, this would probably be it.

My home defense weapon is another story. I have 2 to chose from, and BOTH have red dots. 1. a Daniel Defense 10.3" pistol. It wears an Aimpoint Comp M4s, and a 3x magnifier. 2. a Spike's Tactical 10.3" SBR with a Sig Romeo 5.

There's a reason for this. NOTHING is faster than a red dot, and NOTHING has a more forgiving eyebox. It really is that simple.

I did 28 years in the U.S. Army. It wasn't 'till towards the end of my career that in my 40s, I did 3 combat deployments, and discovered a modern technological marvel... the red dot sight. Yes, I was a better, more experienced soldier than the young troops in my section because of my time in service, but what saved my ass on two separate occasions, was the speed of engagement provided by the red dot sight. I was NEVER that fast (even in my misspent youth) with irons, and I would never be that quick in a rush trying to get my face on the stock just right to avoid scope shadow before Haji could squeeze off a shot. TWICE my shot was on target, and Haji's was not. The speed that my brain can put that red dot on target... made all the difference.

I only have one Aimpoint because I can only afford one, but I have a Sig Romeo 5 on an AR, a lever gun, a Lee Enfield No 4 Mk 1...

I wish you the best on SWAT, whatever your job there will be, but if you're gonna be on the team as a door kicker...

GET THE RED DOT...

Go home to your family when you're don't with the shift.

There will be teammates on overwatch with better glass.

Thank you sir, I appreciate your words and service.

 

[BB24]

MY problem with the MRO is that they've always been fucked up since it was first released years ago, and they never actually fixed them completely and just kept BSing about it since they've never really stopped selling well. If you want one that's actually 1X and isn't distorted/fisheye you have to pay double and get the newer HD version, but that one's emitter is wonky lol.

I have had a bunch of Trijicon stuff, and still have 2 SRO's, so I'm no hater. But I'd honestly rather have any of like 10 other dots out there over an MRO because at least most of the others are actually 1X and don't give me a headache or distort everything I look at through them.
(P.S. the SRO's aren't 100% either, but miles better than the MRO's.)

I feel you man. We pretty much all run RMRs and they have been spot on an reliable, idk what the hell happened with the MRO.

 

[BB24]

You need some training with the LVPO as you'll see eye shadow and parallax inside a room, with a rifle, are pretty irrelevant. You'll hit the bad guy no problem.

We recently had LPVOs approved here and my work rifle has an LPVO because I'm not a door kicker and if I had to use it going into a room, I can. My AO has a lot of open space so the magnification and ability to dial are more desirable for me.

If I was kicking doors I'd have a red dot. My personal gun that's set up for NV has a red dot.

I'll share a somewhat pricey but effective option for somebody wearing multiple hats like you. Consider setting up a rifle with an LPVO for patrol work, and a separate rifle with a red dot, your mawl and NV stuff, for your SWAT duties.

Yea that’s not a bad idea really, once my personal one is done I might be able to run that type of set up.

 

[msstate56]

I’ve gone through this same progression with my equipment. I love an lpvo for a “general purpose” AR. But if my primary mission involves CQB/building clearing- give me a good red dot. Yes, on the range, on a timer, I can run a lpvo at the same speed as an Aimpoint. But clearing a structure looking for someone who can shoot back, is not a speed drill on a flat range. Conducting force on force, I quickly found out that the red dot is a much better choice. Set up your gear for your primary mission, and just make do for any other scenario. Lpvos have a place, but I don’t want to clear a building with one if I don’t have to.

If you have the budget, the Comp M5(s) is a great choice. However I have gone back to the PRO. I find that I really prefer the larger tube, and just can’t trust EO Tech (previous problems with past model). You can run multiple heights on the factory QRP mount using the SKD Tactical risers, as well as being able to swap the knob to the ejection port side. I run the 1.73 height.

I previously ran the MRO, but discovered the parallax problem and had to change.

 

[strikeeagle1]

In 1993 a swat police sniper, mike plumb of the Columbus PD shot a .38 out of a suspects hand....intentionally. It was recorded at 80 some odd yards away. I believe the furthest police “engagement” was 180 something yards in Pennsylvania.
The dude is probably on here. The point is...57y isn’t the National longest distance of police or swat specific “engagements.”

In the U.S.A, the longest average civilian SWAT team engagement distance is 57 yards.

^^^Importantly you left out or didn't see the word "average" in my opening remark. I was not commenting on a Ripley's Believe It or Not longest distance of civilian engagement scenarios. My point was that the overwhelming range is within sling shot distance.

 

[strikeeagle1]

I actually got "loose & easy" with the facts. The average distance is 51 yards. The 187 yard shot is also mentioned in this citation.

SWAT Snipers

For as long as most active SWAT operators have been police officers, there has been one gospel truth about SWAT sniper operations: the 70-Yard Rule. Ask any SWAT sniper what is the average range of a police sniper shooting, and he will answer, “About 70 yards.” Ask him the source of his data...

www.policemag.com

2019 Report available here:

Police Sniper Survey

 

[Krichards]

My 16" HD gun has an Aimpoint PRO. My 18" 3 Gun rifle has a Vortex PSTll 1-6, my 10.5" truck gun has Vortex 1-4, and my 7.5" shorty has a C-more. Close up I will always take the C-More for speed but Aimpoint for life-depends-on-it reliability. Now if distances are more than 50 yards or so, I will pick the 1-6 every time. I just got a Romeo5 and Juliet 3x and will be trying it out on another rifle to see how I like it. For a patrol rifle, I am not sure that a dot with a flip to side magnifier isn't the way to go. I would bet you use the dot 95% of the time. I retired from LE in 1999 and at that time, optics of any kind weren't very common on rifles.

 

[rottenruger]

Hey guys, first post here but have referred to forums on here a long time while doing research for a number of things. I have a question I know has probably been beat to hell but have a decision to make soon and want some input. The question is LPVO vs Red Dot and here’s a rundown on the surrounding info:

I work in LE and assigned to patrol as well as SWAT. On SWAT I’m one of the point guys which obviously means working the door from the threshold and eventually making entry as number one or two man. Most of our SWAT calls are high risk search/arrest warrants but sometimes a good barricade where there might be some distance between us and the structure. The gun is a Larue 12” with a Dead Air Sandman S.

So as it’s sits I run a MRO but we are making a change and being given the option to choose what we want and this is where I’m struggling. We are currently trying out a few different optics and I’m torn between the Aimpoint CompM5 and out of the LPVO the Vortex Razor 1-6. I’ve only had one training day with it but close shots seemed very similar speed wise. Obviously there are pros and cons, LPVO will be a lot more weight added and the eye shadow seems like it might be a problem. I like the magnification option for gathering intel on a structure or situation and improved accuracy at long distance. I worry about the CQB with the LPVO and the weight with the light and peq and everything else. My real question is what do y’all think is the better option for my specific job and what the requirements are, is it better to stick with the red dot or transition to the LPVO. Have y’all had a chance to work both options a lot and what do you think? Thanks for any and all info.

Don't know squat to help you but will wish you best of luck and God's protection.......Be an Oathkeeper and mind your Constitution and Stay Safe!

Army Vet, Oathkeeper, Enraged Citizen

 

[rottenruger]

View attachment 7583280

If you're calling him a hater.......BLOW.

 

[S197]

Hey guys, first post here but have referred to forums on here a long time while doing research for a number of things. I have a question I know has probably been beat to hell but have a decision to make soon and want some input. The question is LPVO vs Red Dot and here’s a rundown on the surrounding info:

I work in LE and assigned to patrol as well as SWAT. On SWAT I’m one of the point guys which obviously means working the door from the threshold and eventually making entry as number one or two man. Most of our SWAT calls are high risk search/arrest warrants but sometimes a good barricade where there might be some distance between us and the structure. The gun is a Larue 12” with a Dead Air Sandman S.

So as it’s sits I run a MRO but we are making a change and being given the option to choose what we want and this is where I’m struggling. We are currently trying out a few different optics and I’m torn between the Aimpoint CompM5 and out of the LPVO the Vortex Razor 1-6. I’ve only had one training day with it but close shots seemed very similar speed wise. Obviously there are pros and cons, LPVO will be a lot more weight added and the eye shadow seems like it might be a problem. I like the magnification option for gathering intel on a structure or situation and improved accuracy at long distance. I worry about the CQB with the LPVO and the weight with the light and peq and everything else. My real question is what do y’all think is the better option for my specific job and what the requirements are, is it better to stick with the red dot or transition to the LPVO. Have y’all had a chance to work both options a lot and what do you think? Thanks for any and all info.

The red dot with a magnifier is a solid option for LEO. Most of its use with a magnifier will be organized and you will have a planed position.
LPVOs are great but head placement becomes a factor. Even if you add an RMR to it, you will still have a scope to work around.

 

[S197]

I personally have tried both setups. I have settled on LVPO 1-6 with a 35 deg off set RMR. Best combination of both scenarios. Quick transitions and effective target ID

I have setup this Noveske N4 10.5" with Aimpoint CompM4s with / without 3x magnifier as well as with a S&B 1.1-4x Short Dot (5.4 moa dot) with an easy to read reticle if needed. A folding stock adapter is the best accessory for these SBR's.

View attachment 7582384View attachment 7582385View attachment 7582387View attachment 7582388View attachment 7582392View attachment 7582393View attachment 7582394

honest question. Are you not concerned with shifting having your optics split between the receiver and your rail?

 

[Strykervet]

There's some good advice here but there's obviously some wannabe commando bullshit too.

Lightweight and svelte with whatever you can use with both eyes the fastest when kicking doors.

I think the choice is obvious. Would be for me. I've kicked doors with the ACOG, it wasn't the best for that second the door came down.

 

[EM_556]

Not concerned. I actually have both mounted on the receiver. The offset mount sneaks under the scope mount well even with the cantilever. I honestly was against the idea of it all until I tried it. I will run the offset on all ARs now. Another benefit too is that it is a backup sight as well, so no need for irons anymore.

 

[Bogey41]

If I were on Point, I wouldn't want the LPVO just because it will take a short time longer to aquire your target due to relief and the eye box (in my experience). You know as well as I do how fast the environment can change in a room. I don't think you'd aquire the change as fast with an LPVO. I personally run an Eotech. I have a magnifier but rarely use it.

Another drawback for me on the LPVO in our type environment would be the lack of co-witness . However your mission dictates your weapon. If you're kicking doors I'd imagine it's horrible to use an LPVO for that. For perimeter, security and other support rolls for the stack it may be ok. I think a holo and magnifier would be better personally.

 

[Matches Malone]

If I were on Point, I wouldn't want the LPVO just because it will take a short time longer to aquire your target due to relief and the eye box (in my experience). You know as well as I do how fast the environment can change in a room. I don't think you'd aquire the change as fast with an LPVO. I personally run an Eotech. I have a magnifier but rarely use it.

Not to mention the awkward angles you encounter. Or weak side corners. That pesky eye box just doesn’t give the same versatility as some form of Rds/hollow

 

[xxflyingturtlexx]

A 12” rifle with an lpvo and offset dot is very useful. The only drawback is weight penalty.
I use 1-6 razor with rmr at 12 oclock position with mawl mounted in the front.
I do not kick doors for living but couple of observations:

1. i can set my razor at 3x or 4x and rely on my rmr on close distance shooting and in a pinch switch to lvpo for longer engagements. 7-25 yards offset rmr or whatever is all you need if you are inside structures or using nvg.
2. a little training lvpo is as fast as red dots. People who deny this have little to no training.
3. People often get confused by distances and pid. Imagine trying to identify a person behind cover at 50 yards. Would you like to guess with a red dot or zoom and see whats up…
4. Critical shots even close distances like 75-100 yrds.

ultimately that is your decision, wishing the best.

 

[Bogey41]

A 12” rifle with an lpvo and offset dot is very useful. The only drawback is weight penalty.
I use 1-6 razor with rmr at 12 oclock position with mawl mounted in the front.
I do not kick doors for living but couple of observations:

1. i can set my razor at 3x or 4x and rely on my rmr on close distance shooting and in a pinch switch to lvpo for longer engagements. 7-25 yards offset rmr or whatever is all you need if you are inside structures or using nvg.
2. a little training lvpo is as fast as red dots. People who deny this have little to no training.
3. People often get confused by distances and pid. Imagine trying to identify a person behind cover at 50 yards. Would you like to guess with a red dot or zoom and see whats up…
4. Critical shots even close distances like 75-100 yrds.

ultimately that is your decision, wishing the best.

I agree at distance, it's worlds better. I have to say on point 2 that you made, that's not accurate in my opinion. The optic is, by design, going to be slower. Boot in a door with an LPVO and a Red dot. A fraction of a second can make a world of difference for threat identification and engagement. Not that LPVO's are bad, the two sights are just for different instances. Like a using an ACOG 4X when you need a high power Nightforce or something similar. The Acog may get the job done but there are better suited alternatives.

 

[Srikaleak]

Unless you are jacked, the weight penalty is too much with an LPVO. I had a NX8 1-8x with an offset red dot. It was an amazing setup on my suppressed SBR AR15 but I was unable to do any kind of one handed manipulations like mag changes because I am weak AF. So I dropped the LPVO and, let me tell you, a lightweight AR is much nicer.

 

[stefan73]

I have a Steiner M8Xi 1-8 LPVO with an illuminated reticle https://www.steiner-optics.com/riflescopes/m8xi-1-8x24 . It is supposed to be day bright illumination but I can't verify that until it is in hand. Whenever it arrives, I'll let you know what I think about it.

I used a Leupold MRT 1.5-5 in Iraq 05-06. Illumination was for dust or dark conditions, so not day type illumination. It was an effective optic and was definitely worth what I spent on it.