Yea its as close as you will get.
2x vs 3x is negligible and weight is so close it doesnt matter.
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LPVO w/ offset red dot, why?
- Thread starter rlsmith1
- Start date
2x vs 3x is negligible and weight is so close it doesnt matter.
I don't know any fat people in real life. Not joking. The only fat people I know post in here.
For all intents and purposes, you are correct. But when your main use is running with the dang thing for 6 miles, you try to shave weight wherever possible...from anything you have to carry.
There was a explanation about this by one of the primary secondary guys that basically said its not soo much about having to dial back to 1x with the LPVO but more so an alternative sight that would allow one better engage targets from a weird shooting positions.
I think I would agree with that line of thought.
The only criticism I have in regards to the LPVO concept, is if one is going to take the weight penalty that is commonly associated with 1-8/1-10 LPVO's and still run a red dot, it sort of more sense to run a 3-18 class optic.
You realize I have never voted for a Democrat? I am just not a conspiracy theorist.
100% agree. I don't bitch too much about it because I feel like if they developed EXACTLY what I wanted for this purpose, only me and a handful of people would purchase it. IMO, this type of optic done right with a piggy backed MRDS would be the holy grail combination for the all purpose lightweight carbine.
Thats because you are comparing it with a 45 degree red dot. If you piggy back it up top over a lower LPVO mount, your LPVO will not be faster at 1x and your transitions between the two optics will be a bit more natural. It will also allow you to use both optics support side, or grounded on either side, something a 45 mount wont allow. I won't say the transition will necessarily be faster, I have seen some guys work between a 45 and LPVO very quickly but I do find it a more natural transition up top.
What buttstock is this?
And I've been harassing them about this for eons. I do think good things are coming though. Not ideal, but in the ballparkk.
I have been trying to get someone to make a compact high quality 3-15x36 for probably close to a decade, but they are all convinced that it will not sell.
ILya
I usually do not engage with trolls or internet retards.... but I will bite....... I would love to see your data.
And FYI.... know anything about springs?
This thread is all sorts of fun...
A couple of points:
1) Fundamentally, an offset or piggybacked red dot sight is there for two reasons: redundancy and options. Redundancy is to account for both possible malfunctions and battery failure in the scope. The options part is aptly demonstrated by the diversity of opinions in this thread. Personally, I am not seeing a whole ton of speed difference between a small red dot and good quality LPVO, but I seem to be marginally faster with a holographic UH-1 than with either when shooting positions are odd. Then again, I am not very fast to start with, so that undoubtedly plays a role.
2) I have a couple of LaRue mounts and if you use the QD feature frequently, they chew up the rail and lose repeatability. Most of the QD mounts I have seen, even the ones that are repeatable if you simply remove them and reinstall them, are more susceptible to being bumped than normal fixed mounts. It probably has something to do with the springs. As far as the repeatability itself goes, a conventional high quality fixed mount is usually more repeatable if you use a torque wrench than any springloaded QD mount. I generally prefer to not use QD mounts when I do not need them. I do continuously test them looking for a good one and so far the inexpensive Burris AR-Signature mount is surprisingly good. I am not 100% sure why and we'll see how long it stays consistent. Perhaps something to do with long clamp engagement surfaces and beefy leaf springs.
ILya
A couple of points:
1) Fundamentally, an offset or piggybacked red dot sight is there for two reasons: redundancy and options. Redundancy is to account for both possible malfunctions and battery failure in the scope. The options part is aptly demonstrated by the diversity of opinions in this thread. Personally, I am not seeing a whole ton of speed difference between a small red dot and good quality LPVO, but I seem to be marginally faster with a holographic UH-1 than with either when shooting positions are odd. Then again, I am not very fast to start with, so that undoubtedly plays a role.
2) I have a couple of LaRue mounts and if you use the QD feature frequently, they chew up the rail and lose repeatability. Most of the QD mounts I have seen, even the ones that are repeatable if you simply remove them and reinstall them, are more susceptible to being bumped than normal fixed mounts. It probably has something to do with the springs. As far as the repeatability itself goes, a conventional high quality fixed mount is usually more repeatable if you use a torque wrench than any springloaded QD mount. I generally prefer to not use QD mounts when I do not need them. I do continuously test them looking for a good one and so far the inexpensive Burris AR-Signature mount is surprisingly good. I am not 100% sure why and we'll see how long it stays consistent. Perhaps something to do with long clamp engagement surfaces and beefy leaf springs.
ILya
@koshkin Out of principle, I will buy
I am not sure what the principle is, but I'll let them know there are now two people who want one of these.
ILya
Oh wow insults and ignorance. You really are special in addition to lazy.
I usually do not engage with trolls or internet retards.... but I will bite....... I would love to see your data.
And FYI.... know anything about springs?
Had you done 5 minutes of research, this would have been one of the first hits.
Rifle Scopes - True Return to Zero mounts
The Larue LT120 seems to be the only mount available with a 1.28" centerline height, 0 MOA and inclination in 34mm. I cant find anyone else who makes this combination. With that said, I've never had a problem with my Larue mounts. Some of you knuckle draggers need to read instructions and instal...
www.snipershide.com
You should really stop posting. I will wait for your appology but i doubt you have the character to admit when you are wrong.
I'll take at least 2.
So...see...now up to at least 4; how is that not a compelling business case!
So...see...now up to at least 4; how is that not a compelling business case!
I like it. Just so happens I did live in arkansas for a few years...
If they are light weight with a decent reticle I will take 3 so does that make 12? And how many does it take to get them to do it? I’m thinking March or Leupold but I’ll go with whatever the Dark Lord says.
12 it is...
The choice of the manufacturer depends on how much you are willing to pay for one.
ILya
The choice of the manufacturer depends on how much you are willing to pay for one.
ILya
Personally I'd prefer a 2-12x36 ish scope, if it were a 3-15 I feel I'd happily pay a slight weight penalty for a 44mm objective. Maybe a 2.4-14x36 could be a good compromise.
So long as it had a good FOV and a well designed reticle (like EBR-9) then I'd be down for 1 maybe 2.
I feel the $1000ish price point is the way to go value for money wise.
So long as it had a good FOV and a well designed reticle (like EBR-9) then I'd be down for 1 maybe 2.
I feel the $1000ish price point is the way to go value for money wise.
No idea where it's going to fall in the hierarchy but Leupold is going to have a MK3 HD line
4-12x40mm is going to be an option.
We're getting closer!
4-12x40mm is going to be an option.
We're getting closer!
@Jong yes @erwos is correct it is FAB defense. I spent a great deal of time testing the most popular buttstocks, I even wrote an article on it. In the end, I like this one better than all the rest when I expected to like it the least before the test started. Cliff notes version: QD swivel point with 360 degree rotation is highly desired, actuation lever up front is out of the way of rear support. Design does not snag/hang on things like the mininimalist MFT stocks do. Curved and rubberized rear buttstock clears armor, carriers and really sticks to the shoulder. Also has a nice cheekweld. The only downside was that lockup was not as tight as some of the others in the test, but still better than the most popular, ie MAGPUL. Didn't hurt that it proved to be lighter than most every other stock, even those advertising to be lighter.
And there in lies the first reason why this scope does not yet exist. $1000ish price point means China or Phillipines unless it is done by a brand that goes direct to consumer.
ILya
My thinking in the $1000 was based around the Vortex PST, VX5 and LHTS level of quality, I'm more than happy with that level of glass/features/mechanical news.
Doesn't mean I wouldn't pay more as I'd imagine you'd get a better quality optic for the price but that's the price point I'd be most thrilled about.
Out of interest what were you thinking?
A LOW type level of scope or something more specialized like March?
Add me to the list, although I do now have a PST 2.5-10x32 coming to tide me over, thanks for that recommendation. As for a direct to consumer brand, I think this should be the next optic in the MPO line, hopefully Brownell's will get you to design the reticle and make the warranty transferable. Although, if Delta can do the Stryker 1-6x24 at $695, maybe they could make this scope at the $1,200 price point. Another idea would be for Vortex to do a Razor LHT 3-15x42 in FFP with a EBR-?? Mil Tree reticle and keep the weight under 20 oz. Last idea would be for Element to make this scope their "Nexus" in a lower power version, but again, for me it's all about the weight for balance on an AR type platform.
I too have a 2.5-10x32 PST that I like a lot but am hoping for a replacement/improved scope.
I emailed Vortex a year or so ago about putting the EBR-9 (or similar) reticle in the PST 2-10 but they said it wasn't on the cards.
I'd love a Leupold VX5/VX6 2-10/12 with a firedot tree reticle, that with the ZL2 turret would be excellent.
Even in SFP I'd still buy one but FFP and MRAD would be preferred.
I'd happily pay more for a higher end/better performing scope but in my (somewhat ignorant) opinion $1000 would be achievable based on the VX5hd and PST Gen2.
@stayontarget I agree about the MPO line if they can keep the weight down. That's been the only downside to their MPO's that I can tell having never owned one.
Gingerly?!?! Why? Cram it down their throats! Let them know they have no idea what it’s like to deal with a pissed off Russian... er American... er Jewish Russian American with Israeli ties... OK on second thought, you know far better than I, so ignore me and carry on, I’ll just be here whining about how I can’t have a 10 ounce, 1-100x50 Tangent Theta for $999.99...
Everything is relative. Let’s just say that my version of gingerly is .... unorthodox.
ILya
As someone said earlier, it's about options. On patrol I run my scope at 6x so I have both options immediately available. On entries, I run it at 1x. On barricades I'm running it up & down based on what I need to look at.
As it is, my K16i weighs in at about a pound, and the total rifle package is relatively heavy at a little over 10lbs, so more weight at this point is not in the cards. Gotta draw the line somewhere.
The 45° offset also comes in handy for oddball positions like support side urban prone.
As it is, my K16i weighs in at about a pound, and the total rifle package is relatively heavy at a little over 10lbs, so more weight at this point is not in the cards. Gotta draw the line somewhere.
The 45° offset also comes in handy for oddball positions like support side urban prone.
I love my LPVO's, and have been adding piggybacked RMR's to a lot of things because it adds reduncy, versatility and more night vision options. In that process, I realized that I could get away dropping the lower end of the magnification range for much of my usage. However, I wasn't seeing much of anything that met my requirements, so the Razor 1-10x is on my shopping list.
All that to say, I would be very interested in a 2-3x to 12-14x optic that comes in under 20 oz. I'd want excellent glass and strongly prefer an illuminated reticle.
All that to say, I would be very interested in a 2-3x to 12-14x optic that comes in under 20 oz. I'd want excellent glass and strongly prefer an illuminated reticle.
I think the biggest reason people use a 1-X instead of a 2-12 or higher in conjunction with a red dot is for AR15's specifically, 10 power is definitely good enough to reach as far as a 5.56 will reach accurately.
You can certainly shoot farther with higher magnification, and get tighter groups, but I think the main emphasis is on relatively fast "good enough" shots at distance rather than precision marksmanship like a sharpshooter or sniper's job. It's not set up for precision 800+ yard shots, it's more for 1-500yd combat accuracy.
If you're using this set up on a .308 or a 6.5 creed then by all means go with more magnification, the LPVO is for enhanced flexibility/versatility while the offset red dot is for "oh shit" moments when you either don't have time to switch your LPVO to 1x or you need red dot speed and FOV
If SWFA could give something based on the design of their 2.5-10x Ultralight with a FFP MIL-based reticle for <$1,000...
I'm literally throwing 12'oclock red dots on all my outdoor optics. Hunting hogs mostly made me a convert. The ability to raise my head slightly if the need demands it is now second nature , then I dial magnification when time allows.
For home defense : Eotech
For home defense : Eotech
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I’m contemplating changing my 1-10 for a NF 2.5-20 simply because what you described doesn’t exist. They could price it at $2k and still make a lot of sales
I'm in the same boat for coyote hunting. I use a lightweight tripod, so tilting 45° isn't practical. A 12 o'clock RDS on my 3-9x Leupold gets the job done. Find fur with the RDS, then shift to the primary optic to prepare for the shot.
I just can't use scopes with tall turrets, so my SWFA 3-15x is out of the rotation (for now).
An offset setup that works well for me. Hogs on the property don't appreciate it much.
Nice rifle setup, been contemplating tenebraex caps as my standard rubber slip-ons have been falling off lately.
What data sleeve have you got on the table there? (Pic 2) Looks nifty.
^^It's a Rifles Only "Shooter Book". Has loop 10 round velcro backed "cards" that can be installed on multiple velcro pages.....options to buy
extra cards / dividers etc. The Clear page fits their "range card" offering. I use the SH with a slight trim and works fine. I use Tenebraex or Aadland caps on all my scopes, they are both 1st tier, with maybe an edge to Aadland as you can control the purchase tension with set screws.
extra cards / dividers etc. The Clear page fits their "range card" offering. I use the SH with a slight trim and works fine. I use Tenebraex or Aadland caps on all my scopes, they are both 1st tier, with maybe an edge to Aadland as you can control the purchase tension with set screws.
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