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LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
- Thread starter VKC
- Start date
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually yes it is a coincidence. Check the documents if you don't trust Frank. Frank said he used POF so Patriot Ordnance Factory wouldn't have to be spelled out. The two companies never had any closer relationship than Frank selling HK parts made by them. That's it. Period. Pakistan HK parts were never used in any POF rifle. You just got it from Frank's mouth through my phone.
And it wasn't the OP that brought it up but another poster who was in causing problems. </div></div>
Impossible. There is no way that two companies that manufacture guns across the world that also sold parts to each other have the same acronym. Come on man, all the posts i have seen by you have been reasonable. You couldnt sell that to a retarded 5yr old.
Why would Frank start up a corporation making weapons where two out of three words and acronyms match 100% to the same company that he is selling parts for? That makes no lick of sense. I dont care if Jesus Christ showed up and told me they had no relations, and i wouldnt believe it, lol.
Once again, this is not an attack on POF. I love their products. But if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck then i am calling it a duck.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually yes it is a coincidence. Check the documents if you don't trust Frank. Frank said he used POF so Patriot Ordnance Factory wouldn't have to be spelled out. The two companies never had any closer relationship than Frank selling HK parts made by them. That's it. Period. Pakistan HK parts were never used in any POF rifle. You just got it from Frank's mouth through my phone.
And it wasn't the OP that brought it up but another poster who was in causing problems. </div></div>
Impossible. There is no way that two companies that manufacture guns across the world that also sold parts to each other have the same acronym. Come on man, all the posts i have seen by you have been reasonable. You couldnt sell that to a retarded 5yr old.
Why would Frank start up a corporation making weapons where two out of three words and acronyms match 100% to the same company that he is selling parts for? That makes no lick of sense. I dont care if Jesus Christ showed up and told me they had no relations, and i wouldnt believe it, lol.
Once again, this is not an attack on POF. I love their products. But if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck then i am calling it a duck.
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually yes it is a coincidence. Check the documents if you don't trust Frank. Frank said he used POF so Patriot Ordnance Factory wouldn't have to be spelled out. The two companies never had any closer relationship than Frank selling HK parts made by them. That's it. Period. Pakistan HK parts were never used in any POF rifle. You just got it from Frank's mouth through my phone.
And it wasn't the OP that brought it up but another poster who was in causing problems. </div></div>
Impossible. There is no way that two companies that manufacture guns across the world that also sold parts to each other have the same acronym. Come on man, all the posts i have seen by you have been reasonable. You couldnt sell that to a retarded 5yr old.
</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Florida Water Works Inc</span>., of Sanford, which manufactures and sells algicide for swimming pools, has an A+ rating. <span style="font-weight: bold">Florida Water Works</span> of Pinellas Park sells home water-treatment systems and has an F rating.
Acronyms are irrelevant and coincidental. Remember when the WWF (World Wildlife Fund) sued the WWF (World Wrestling Federation) to have it's name changed to WWE?
PoF Proof of Funds
POF Plastic Optical Fiber
POF Piano dell'Offerta Formativa (Italian school document)
POF Premature Ovarian Failure (early menopause)
POF Polymer Optical Fiber
POF Plenty of Fish (dating website)
POF Physics-Of-Failure
POF Probability of Failure
POF Pakistan Ordnance Factory
POF Point of Failure
PoF Plane of Fear (gaming)
POF Planes of Fame (air museum at Chino Airport, California)
POF Pillar of Fire (church in Denver, CO, USA)
POF Phase Only Filter
POF Purchase Order Financing
POF Plane of Focus (photography)
POF Payment for Order Flow (stock exchange)
POF priority of fires (US DoD)
PoF Pieces of Flair (blog)
POF Pontificating Old Fart
POF Private Operating Frequencies
POF Pot of Food (fire service members)
POF Pulse Outline Format
POF Permanently Oil Filled
POF Patient's Own Frame
POF Put on File
POF Period of Affordability
http://www.pof.org/
http://pof.aip.org/
http://www.pofsea.org/
http://www.pofsupport.org/
http://www.pofworld.com/west10/
http://www.pofto.org/home/
http://pofnetworks.com/pof/default.aspx
The last 2 deal with plastic optical fiber. Must be a conspiracy.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually yes it is a coincidence. Check the documents if you don't trust Frank. Frank said he used POF so Patriot Ordnance Factory wouldn't have to be spelled out. The two companies never had any closer relationship than Frank selling HK parts made by them. That's it. Period. Pakistan HK parts were never used in any POF rifle. You just got it from Frank's mouth through my phone.
And it wasn't the OP that brought it up but another poster who was in causing problems. </div></div>
Impossible. There is no way that two companies that manufacture guns across the world that also sold parts to each other have the same acronym. Come on man, all the posts i have seen by you have been reasonable. You couldnt sell that to a retarded 5yr old.
</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Florida Water Works Inc</span>., of Sanford, which manufactures and sells algicide for swimming pools, has an A+ rating. <span style="font-weight: bold">Florida Water Works</span> of Pinellas Park sells home water-treatment systems and has an F rating.
Acronyms are irrelevant and coincidental. Remember when the WWF (World Wildlife Fund) sued the WWF (World Wrestling Federation) to have it's name changed to WWE?
PoF Proof of Funds
POF Plastic Optical Fiber
POF Piano dell'Offerta Formativa (Italian school document)
POF Premature Ovarian Failure (early menopause)
POF Polymer Optical Fiber
POF Plenty of Fish (dating website)
POF Physics-Of-Failure
POF Probability of Failure
POF Pakistan Ordnance Factory
POF Point of Failure
PoF Plane of Fear (gaming)
POF Planes of Fame (air museum at Chino Airport, California)
POF Pillar of Fire (church in Denver, CO, USA)
POF Phase Only Filter
POF Purchase Order Financing
POF Plane of Focus (photography)
POF Payment for Order Flow (stock exchange)
POF priority of fires (US DoD)
PoF Pieces of Flair (blog)
POF Pontificating Old Fart
POF Private Operating Frequencies
POF Pot of Food (fire service members)
POF Pulse Outline Format
POF Permanently Oil Filled
POF Patient's Own Frame
POF Put on File
POF Period of Affordability
http://www.pof.org/
http://pof.aip.org/
http://www.pofsea.org/
http://www.pofsupport.org/
http://www.pofworld.com/west10/
http://www.pofto.org/home/
http://pofnetworks.com/pof/default.aspx
The last 2 deal with plastic optical fiber. Must be a conspiracy.
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottyman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually yes it is a coincidence. Check the documents if you don't trust Frank. Frank said he used POF so Patriot Ordnance Factory wouldn't have to be spelled out. The two companies never had any closer relationship than Frank selling HK parts made by them. That's it. Period. Pakistan HK parts were never used in any POF rifle. You just got it from Frank's mouth through my phone.
And it wasn't the OP that brought it up but another poster who was in causing problems. </div></div>
Impossible. There is no way that two companies that manufacture guns across the world that also sold parts to each other have the same acronym. Come on man, all the posts i have seen by you have been reasonable. You couldnt sell that to a retarded 5yr old.
</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Florida Water Works Inc</span>., of Sanford, which manufactures and sells algicide for swimming pools, has an A+ rating. <span style="font-weight: bold">Florida Water Works</span> of Pinellas Park sells home water-treatment systems and has an F rating.
Acronyms are irrelevant and coincidental. Remember when the WWF (World Wildlife Fund) sued the WWF (World Wrestling Federation) to have it's name changed to WWE?
</div></div>
Part of the condition i mentioned is that they also had to work/or sell parts to each other. None of those companies or medical diseased lol you mentioned sold parts to each other. Of course acronyms can match. But what is the chance that one of those companies used to sell parts for the other one? Also mentioning Premature Ovarian Failure (POF)which is a disease and not a corporation to Pakistan or Patriot Ordnance Factory is pretty pointless.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottyman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually yes it is a coincidence. Check the documents if you don't trust Frank. Frank said he used POF so Patriot Ordnance Factory wouldn't have to be spelled out. The two companies never had any closer relationship than Frank selling HK parts made by them. That's it. Period. Pakistan HK parts were never used in any POF rifle. You just got it from Frank's mouth through my phone.
And it wasn't the OP that brought it up but another poster who was in causing problems. </div></div>
Impossible. There is no way that two companies that manufacture guns across the world that also sold parts to each other have the same acronym. Come on man, all the posts i have seen by you have been reasonable. You couldnt sell that to a retarded 5yr old.
</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Florida Water Works Inc</span>., of Sanford, which manufactures and sells algicide for swimming pools, has an A+ rating. <span style="font-weight: bold">Florida Water Works</span> of Pinellas Park sells home water-treatment systems and has an F rating.
Acronyms are irrelevant and coincidental. Remember when the WWF (World Wildlife Fund) sued the WWF (World Wrestling Federation) to have it's name changed to WWE?
</div></div>
Part of the condition i mentioned is that they also had to work/or sell parts to each other. None of those companies or medical diseased lol you mentioned sold parts to each other. Of course acronyms can match. But what is the chance that one of those companies used to sell parts for the other one? Also mentioning Premature Ovarian Failure (POF)which is a disease and not a corporation to Pakistan or Patriot Ordnance Factory is pretty pointless.
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zinny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
now that the facts are actually stated, it seems everyone's ignoring the fact. i feel this should be a lesson learned by everyone that you cannot merely state the "facts" and maniacally attack another person just because you only know part of it.
alpha6164, you really dropped the atomic bomb on this one
</div></div>
I have nothing against anyone in this thread. My surprise was that the attack was by veteran members on this forum on a subject they were not 100% informed on. It is irrelevant to me, but none of them <span style="font-weight: bold">have come to apologize </span>or retract their statements towards the initial poster that pointed out the relationship between POF-USA and POF (Pakistan). It like crickets chirping here
</div></div>
are you stupid?.....a real man never apologizes.....if i ever see, or hear a man apologize i instantly lose all respect for him.....only 2 people apologize
1)children
2)criminals
hope this helps...
bench
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zinny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
now that the facts are actually stated, it seems everyone's ignoring the fact. i feel this should be a lesson learned by everyone that you cannot merely state the "facts" and maniacally attack another person just because you only know part of it.
alpha6164, you really dropped the atomic bomb on this one
I have nothing against anyone in this thread. My surprise was that the attack was by veteran members on this forum on a subject they were not 100% informed on. It is irrelevant to me, but none of them <span style="font-weight: bold">have come to apologize </span>or retract their statements towards the initial poster that pointed out the relationship between POF-USA and POF (Pakistan). It like crickets chirping here
are you stupid?.....a real man never apologizes.....if i ever see, or hear a man apologize i instantly lose all respect for him.....only 2 people apologize
1)children
2)criminals
hope this helps...
bench
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
<span style="font-style: italic">Also mentioning Premature Ovarian Failure (POF)which is a disease and not a corporation to Pakistan or Patriot Ordnance Factory is pretty pointless</span>
Wow. Can you be anymore selective?
There's always a chance one company may have had dealings with another sharing a similar name.
Ex. In my above reply. Florida Water Works. They may or may not have had dealings. Who knows and who cares.
http://www.pofto.org/home/
http://pofnetworks.com/pof/default.aspx Both deal in optical fiber. What are the chances?
It doesn't matter what coincidental evidences I present. Your mind is made up.
<span style="font-style: italic">Also mentioning Premature Ovarian Failure (POF)which is a disease and not a corporation to Pakistan or Patriot Ordnance Factory is pretty pointless</span>
Wow. Can you be anymore selective?
There's always a chance one company may have had dealings with another sharing a similar name.
Ex. In my above reply. Florida Water Works. They may or may not have had dealings. Who knows and who cares.
http://www.pofto.org/home/
http://pofnetworks.com/pof/default.aspx Both deal in optical fiber. What are the chances?
It doesn't matter what coincidental evidences I present. Your mind is made up.
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
are you stupid?.....a real man never apologizes.....if i ever see, or hear a man apologize i instantly lose all respect for him.....only 2 people apologize
1)children
2)criminals
hope this helps...
bench </div></div>
Since you are throwing the insult, i am willing to bet that my IQ and intelligence is higher than you and your entire family added up
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
are you stupid?.....a real man never apologizes.....if i ever see, or hear a man apologize i instantly lose all respect for him.....only 2 people apologize
1)children
2)criminals
hope this helps...
bench </div></div>
Since you are throwing the insult, i am willing to bet that my IQ and intelligence is higher than you and your entire family added up
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
are you stupid?.....a real man never apologizes.....if i ever see, or hear a man apologize i instantly lose all respect for him.....only 2 people apologize
1)children
2)criminals
hope this helps...
bench </div></div>
Since you are throwing the insult, i am willing to bet that my IQ and intelligence is higher than you and your entire family added up </div></div>
I never made a insult. I asked a question...i would have thought someone who is claiming to be as smart as yourself could tell the difference between a statement, and a question....but here we are....thanks for showing the board that you are so much smarter than me
hope this helps...
bench
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
are you stupid?.....a real man never apologizes.....if i ever see, or hear a man apologize i instantly lose all respect for him.....only 2 people apologize
1)children
2)criminals
hope this helps...
bench </div></div>
Since you are throwing the insult, i am willing to bet that my IQ and intelligence is higher than you and your entire family added up
</div></div>I never made a insult. I asked a question...i would have thought someone who is claiming to be as smart as yourself could tell the difference between a statement, and a question....but here we are....thanks for showing the board that you are so much smarter than me
hope this helps...
bench
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
are you stupid?.....a real man never apologizes.....if i ever see, or hear a man apologize i instantly lose all respect for him.....only 2 people apologize
1)children
2)criminals
hope this helps...
bench </div></div>
Since you are throwing the insult, i am willing to bet that my IQ and intelligence is higher than you and your entire family added up </div></div>
I never made a insult. I asked a question...i would have thought someone who is claiming to be as smart as yourself could tell the difference between a statement, and a question....but here we are....thanks for showing the board that you are so much smarter than me
hope this helps...
bench </div></div>
It is obvious that you have such a grasp of the English language that something so simple evades you. So you think if i come out of no where and ask if your wife/sister/mother is a whore? You dont think i am throwing an insult and just merely asking an inquisitive question? NOT>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
are you stupid?.....a real man never apologizes.....if i ever see, or hear a man apologize i instantly lose all respect for him.....only 2 people apologize
1)children
2)criminals
hope this helps...
bench </div></div>
Since you are throwing the insult, i am willing to bet that my IQ and intelligence is higher than you and your entire family added up
</div></div>I never made a insult. I asked a question...i would have thought someone who is claiming to be as smart as yourself could tell the difference between a statement, and a question....but here we are....thanks for showing the board that you are so much smarter than me
hope this helps...
bench </div></div>
It is obvious that you have such a grasp of the English language that something so simple evades you. So you think if i come out of no where and ask if your wife/sister/mother is a whore? You dont think i am throwing an insult and just merely asking an inquisitive question? NOT>
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
are you stupid?.....a real man never apologizes.....if i ever see, or hear a man apologize i instantly lose all respect for him.....only 2 people apologize
1)children
2)criminals
hope this helps...
bench </div></div>
Since you are throwing the insult, i am willing to bet that my IQ and intelligence is higher than you and your entire family added up </div></div>
I never made a insult. I asked a question...i would have thought someone who is claiming to be as smart as yourself could tell the difference between a statement, and a question....but here we are....thanks for showing the board that you are so much smarter than me
hope this helps...
bench </div></div>
It is obvious that you have such a grasp of the English language that something so simple evades you. So you think if i come out of no where and ask if your wife/sister/mother is a whore? You dont think i am throwing an insult and just merely asking an inquisitive question? NOT> </div></div>
oh no, the thin skinned bandit is trying to use his frail save face logic on me...what ever shall i do?
i am in your head....tell you teachers at shool in the morning that the "bad man" on the internet made fun of you...it might make you feel a little better...
bench
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: benchmstr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
are you stupid?.....a real man never apologizes.....if i ever see, or hear a man apologize i instantly lose all respect for him.....only 2 people apologize
1)children
2)criminals
hope this helps...
bench </div></div>
Since you are throwing the insult, i am willing to bet that my IQ and intelligence is higher than you and your entire family added up
</div></div>I never made a insult. I asked a question...i would have thought someone who is claiming to be as smart as yourself could tell the difference between a statement, and a question....but here we are....thanks for showing the board that you are so much smarter than me
hope this helps...
bench </div></div>
It is obvious that you have such a grasp of the English language that something so simple evades you. So you think if i come out of no where and ask if your wife/sister/mother is a whore? You dont think i am throwing an insult and just merely asking an inquisitive question? NOT> </div></div>
oh no, the thin skinned bandit is trying to use his frail save face logic on me...what ever shall i do?
i am in your head....tell you teachers at shool in the morning that the "bad man" on the internet made fun of you...it might make you feel a little better...
bench
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
One thing that is sort of scary about this forum is how childish people can be on it. This is especially troubling as they are not only armed, but ostensibly capable of hitting what they shoot at.
Not the OP but the original commenter on a Pakistan connedtion said, "Im not a big fan of Pakistan Ordnance Factory POF that's right PAKISTAN
Google this. pakistan ordnance factory usa". His post was wrong headed and the manner in which he presented his "ideas" was childish "Im not a big fan of Pakistan Ordnance Factory POF that's right PAKISTAN...". When people jumped all over his statements and trashed he and the horse he rode in on, that seemed "reasonable" given how unmeasured his statements had been. However, Alpha is in a whole different category. He presented evidence and has made a compelling case that there was a connection between POF USA and Packistan Ordanince Factory. Nothing that has been presented since has convinced me that his original post was not substantially correct. Admittedly he has allowed himself to be drawn down to name calling. Perhaps forgetting that "don't get into a mud slinging match with a pig, they like it".
To summarize; everyone, I believe, agrees that POF USA is a fine company wholly American owned, and the manufacturer of excellent rifles every part of which is manufactured in the USA.
There seems to be some disagreement as to a relationship involving intellectual property that may or may not have been purchased from Germany by a Pakistani company and then used by POF USA in the design and development of their excellent rifle.
Is that a fair statement of where there is still disagreement in this issue?
One thing that is sort of scary about this forum is how childish people can be on it. This is especially troubling as they are not only armed, but ostensibly capable of hitting what they shoot at.
Not the OP but the original commenter on a Pakistan connedtion said, "Im not a big fan of Pakistan Ordnance Factory POF that's right PAKISTAN
Google this. pakistan ordnance factory usa". His post was wrong headed and the manner in which he presented his "ideas" was childish "Im not a big fan of Pakistan Ordnance Factory POF that's right PAKISTAN...". When people jumped all over his statements and trashed he and the horse he rode in on, that seemed "reasonable" given how unmeasured his statements had been. However, Alpha is in a whole different category. He presented evidence and has made a compelling case that there was a connection between POF USA and Packistan Ordanince Factory. Nothing that has been presented since has convinced me that his original post was not substantially correct. Admittedly he has allowed himself to be drawn down to name calling. Perhaps forgetting that "don't get into a mud slinging match with a pig, they like it".
To summarize; everyone, I believe, agrees that POF USA is a fine company wholly American owned, and the manufacturer of excellent rifles every part of which is manufactured in the USA.
There seems to be some disagreement as to a relationship involving intellectual property that may or may not have been purchased from Germany by a Pakistani company and then used by POF USA in the design and development of their excellent rifle.
Is that a fair statement of where there is still disagreement in this issue?
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rundown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One thing that is sort of scary about this forum is how childish people can be on it. This is especially troubling as they are not only armed, but ostensibly capable of hitting what they shoot at. </div></div>
I'd like to believe that despite being hot-headed and childish on the Internet, people are generally cooler in real life. It's the same sort of transformative process that takes place when some people get behind the wheel... However, I'd been demonstrated to be wrong plenty of times before...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rundown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One thing that is sort of scary about this forum is how childish people can be on it. This is especially troubling as they are not only armed, but ostensibly capable of hitting what they shoot at. </div></div>
I'd like to believe that despite being hot-headed and childish on the Internet, people are generally cooler in real life. It's the same sort of transformative process that takes place when some people get behind the wheel... However, I'd been demonstrated to be wrong plenty of times before...
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually yes it is a coincidence. Check the documents if you don't trust Frank. Frank said he used POF so Patriot Ordnance Factory wouldn't have to be spelled out. The two companies never had any closer relationship than Frank selling HK parts made by them. That's it. Period. Pakistan HK parts were never used in any POF rifle. You just got it from Frank's mouth through my phone.
And it wasn't the OP that brought it up but another poster who was in causing problems. </div></div>
Impossible. There is no way that two companies that manufacture guns across the world that also sold parts to each other have the same acronym. Come on man, all the posts i have seen by you have been reasonable. You couldnt sell that to a retarded 5yr old.
Why would Frank start up a corporation making weapons where two out of three words and acronyms match 100% to the same company that he is selling parts for? That makes no lick of sense. I dont care if Jesus Christ showed up and told me they had no relations, and i wouldnt believe it, lol.
Once again, this is not an attack on POF. I love their products. But if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck then i am calling it a duck. </div></div>
Obviously Alpha you know more about Frank's company than he does so you keep believing that. You should call him and get it from his mouth. Actually anyone here that still believes that should call and get it from the owner of the company. He should be back in the office midweek as he's at the NRA Conference this weekend.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually yes it is a coincidence. Check the documents if you don't trust Frank. Frank said he used POF so Patriot Ordnance Factory wouldn't have to be spelled out. The two companies never had any closer relationship than Frank selling HK parts made by them. That's it. Period. Pakistan HK parts were never used in any POF rifle. You just got it from Frank's mouth through my phone.
And it wasn't the OP that brought it up but another poster who was in causing problems. </div></div>
Impossible. There is no way that two companies that manufacture guns across the world that also sold parts to each other have the same acronym. Come on man, all the posts i have seen by you have been reasonable. You couldnt sell that to a retarded 5yr old.
Why would Frank start up a corporation making weapons where two out of three words and acronyms match 100% to the same company that he is selling parts for? That makes no lick of sense. I dont care if Jesus Christ showed up and told me they had no relations, and i wouldnt believe it, lol.
Once again, this is not an attack on POF. I love their products. But if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck then i am calling it a duck. </div></div>
Obviously Alpha you know more about Frank's company than he does so you keep believing that. You should call him and get it from his mouth. Actually anyone here that still believes that should call and get it from the owner of the company. He should be back in the office midweek as he's at the NRA Conference this weekend.
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rundown</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Perhaps forgetting that "don't get into a mud slinging match with a pig, they like it".
</div></div>
You are absolutely right. That was poor judgment on my part. That and along with the rest of your post is spot on.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rundown</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Perhaps forgetting that "don't get into a mud slinging match with a pig, they like it".
</div></div>
You are absolutely right. That was poor judgment on my part. That and along with the rest of your post is spot on.
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rundown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One thing that is sort of scary about this forum is how childish people can be on it. This is especially troubling as they are not only armed, but ostensibly capable of hitting what they shoot at.
Not the OP but the original commenter on a Pakistan connedtion said, "Im not a big fan of Pakistan Ordnance Factory POF that's right PAKISTAN
Google this. pakistan ordnance factory usa". His post was wrong headed and the manner in which he presented his "ideas" was childish "Im not a big fan of Pakistan Ordnance Factory POF that's right PAKISTAN...". When people jumped all over his statements and trashed he and the horse he rode in on, that seemed "reasonable" given how unmeasured his statements had been. However, Alpha is in a whole different category. He presented evidence and has made a compelling case that there was a connection between POF USA and Packistan Ordanince Factory. Nothing that has been presented since has convinced me that his original post was not substantially correct. Admittedly he has allowed himself to be drawn down to name calling. Perhaps forgetting that "don't get into a mud slinging match with a pig, they like it".
To summarize; everyone, I believe, agrees that POF USA is a fine company wholly American owned, and the manufacturer of excellent rifles every part of which is manufactured in the USA.
There seems to be some disagreement as to a relationship involving intellectual property that may or may not have been purchased from Germany by a Pakistani company and then used by POF USA in the design and development of their excellent rifle.
Is that a fair statement of where there is still disagreement in this issue?
</div></div>
I still contend there is no connection between Patriot Ordnance Factory and Pakistan Ordnance Factory nor any proof there were any intellectual property dealings between the two.
This page http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/notes/noteshk/hkpof/pagehkpof.shtml never mentions Patriot Ordnance Factory and speaks only of "Pakistan Ordnance Factory-USA" and refers to them at times as "POF-USA".
Any simlilarities in products and/or parts would appear as coincidental as any other product or part from another company or manufacturer not mentioned
The confusion seems to lie in the use of "POF-USA" on that website. It's speaking of Pakistan Ordnance Factory-USA. Now unless Patriot Ordnance Factory changed it's name from Pakistan OF to Patriot OF this is completely an unsupported assertion. NO evidence.
Yes, mudslinging only gets your hands dirty and you end up losing ground.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rundown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One thing that is sort of scary about this forum is how childish people can be on it. This is especially troubling as they are not only armed, but ostensibly capable of hitting what they shoot at.
Not the OP but the original commenter on a Pakistan connedtion said, "Im not a big fan of Pakistan Ordnance Factory POF that's right PAKISTAN
Google this. pakistan ordnance factory usa". His post was wrong headed and the manner in which he presented his "ideas" was childish "Im not a big fan of Pakistan Ordnance Factory POF that's right PAKISTAN...". When people jumped all over his statements and trashed he and the horse he rode in on, that seemed "reasonable" given how unmeasured his statements had been. However, Alpha is in a whole different category. He presented evidence and has made a compelling case that there was a connection between POF USA and Packistan Ordanince Factory. Nothing that has been presented since has convinced me that his original post was not substantially correct. Admittedly he has allowed himself to be drawn down to name calling. Perhaps forgetting that "don't get into a mud slinging match with a pig, they like it".
To summarize; everyone, I believe, agrees that POF USA is a fine company wholly American owned, and the manufacturer of excellent rifles every part of which is manufactured in the USA.
There seems to be some disagreement as to a relationship involving intellectual property that may or may not have been purchased from Germany by a Pakistani company and then used by POF USA in the design and development of their excellent rifle.
Is that a fair statement of where there is still disagreement in this issue?
</div></div>
I still contend there is no connection between Patriot Ordnance Factory and Pakistan Ordnance Factory nor any proof there were any intellectual property dealings between the two.
This page http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/notes/noteshk/hkpof/pagehkpof.shtml never mentions Patriot Ordnance Factory and speaks only of "Pakistan Ordnance Factory-USA" and refers to them at times as "POF-USA".
Any simlilarities in products and/or parts would appear as coincidental as any other product or part from another company or manufacturer not mentioned
The confusion seems to lie in the use of "POF-USA" on that website. It's speaking of Pakistan Ordnance Factory-USA. Now unless Patriot Ordnance Factory changed it's name from Pakistan OF to Patriot OF this is completely an unsupported assertion. NO evidence.
Yes, mudslinging only gets your hands dirty and you end up losing ground.
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
Scottyman,
How is this so confusing to u? Even Rob states that Frank admits to selling parts that were made for HK rifles. They used to advertise it on their webpage upto two years ago. There is only one POF-USA and they are in Arizona. Interestingly enought ARIZONA REsponse System also magically happens to be in AZ.
In thr article when it is mentioned that "the owner asked him to stop by to compare the quality of the parts" do u actually think the guy flew to Pakistan ? Lol
Specially when we knew POF-USA sold HK and PTR91 parts. Anyone with any common sense can see this clear as day.
Scottyman,
How is this so confusing to u? Even Rob states that Frank admits to selling parts that were made for HK rifles. They used to advertise it on their webpage upto two years ago. There is only one POF-USA and they are in Arizona. Interestingly enought ARIZONA REsponse System also magically happens to be in AZ.
In thr article when it is mentioned that "the owner asked him to stop by to compare the quality of the parts" do u actually think the guy flew to Pakistan ? Lol
Specially when we knew POF-USA sold HK and PTR91 parts. Anyone with any common sense can see this clear as day.
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
I'm just going to throw this out there but looking into the history of both the HK 416 and POF everything I can find shows that POF came out with their piston system in 2004 and HK's came out in 2005. Say what you will but I seriously doubt HK gave their designs to Pakistan and then they gave them to Patriot Ordinance Factory. I'm sure the nay sayers will say other wise.
BTW, so what if one company sells another's products. I don't know what type of business world you live in but I guarantee many if not most US weapons manufactures receive services and or production parts that are out sourced.
I do know for a fact that that almost every major part on the current POF rifles are made right here in AZ. I've seen the facilities.
I'm just going to throw this out there but looking into the history of both the HK 416 and POF everything I can find shows that POF came out with their piston system in 2004 and HK's came out in 2005. Say what you will but I seriously doubt HK gave their designs to Pakistan and then they gave them to Patriot Ordinance Factory. I'm sure the nay sayers will say other wise.
BTW, so what if one company sells another's products. I don't know what type of business world you live in but I guarantee many if not most US weapons manufactures receive services and or production parts that are out sourced.
I do know for a fact that that almost every major part on the current POF rifles are made right here in AZ. I've seen the facilities.
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
Love the side cocker on the LWRC, but the POF runs around $1k cheaper. I'd be an equally average marksman with either so I went POF so I could at least afford an optic to see what I'm not hitting...
Pakistan shmackistan......
Love the side cocker on the LWRC, but the POF runs around $1k cheaper. I'd be an equally average marksman with either so I went POF so I could at least afford an optic to see what I'm not hitting...
Pakistan shmackistan......
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
I know my commute each day is long to the POF factory, but i can assure you, I've never driven to Pakistan. LOL
I just got back from NC from the NRA show with Frank, the owner of POF-USA. I told him about this thread and he said, "There will always be people who try and stir the pot, we can't worry about them, they are like the people who are against immigration reform, the loudest 10% minority screaming like stuck pigs."
BTW, the pictogram s on the lower are done by several manufacturers, not just POF and HK.
I know my commute each day is long to the POF factory, but i can assure you, I've never driven to Pakistan. LOL
I just got back from NC from the NRA show with Frank, the owner of POF-USA. I told him about this thread and he said, "There will always be people who try and stir the pot, we can't worry about them, they are like the people who are against immigration reform, the loudest 10% minority screaming like stuck pigs."
BTW, the pictogram s on the lower are done by several manufacturers, not just POF and HK.
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
Having trouble looking through the smoke and staying on target.
I don't want to single out the instigators, but if you want to argue about POF and their allege Pakistan connection, please start your on topic thread.
Thanks for those who gave me (and others reading) valuable input on their personal experiences with POF vs. LWRC REPR rifles.
Having trouble looking through the smoke and staying on target.
I don't want to single out the instigators, but if you want to argue about POF and their allege Pakistan connection, please start your on topic thread.
Thanks for those who gave me (and others reading) valuable input on their personal experiences with POF vs. LWRC REPR rifles.
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
It is going to come down to a question of aesthetics and the side charging handle. The feeding issues of the REPR will be a thing of the past. I think both rifles are fine machines, but I like how the LWRC looks, much more sleek. Moreover, I love the side charging handle.
WIth regards to H&K shipping/selling guns despite embargoes and shady regimes----- It would probably be a lot easier and politically correct for H&K to ship those guns to the US civilian market or build a factory here.
It is going to come down to a question of aesthetics and the side charging handle. The feeding issues of the REPR will be a thing of the past. I think both rifles are fine machines, but I like how the LWRC looks, much more sleek. Moreover, I love the side charging handle.
WIth regards to H&K shipping/selling guns despite embargoes and shady regimes----- It would probably be a lot easier and politically correct for H&K to ship those guns to the US civilian market or build a factory here.
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rundown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alpha6164;
That is a well written and thought provoking post. The previous poster claiming a Pakastani connection was quickly dismissed, probably because of the tenor of his argument. I doubt your information will be so contemptuously dismissed, we shall see.
I don't have any first hand knowledge of the POF rifle, but from what I have seen on their site and read here it must be a quality product. <span style="color: #FF0000">I can't see that intellectual property and tooling from Germany via Pakistan is a deal breaker.</span> Hell, I rather like my AK and we know what kind of bastards designed and built those. </div></div>
The part in red is the mistaken assumption that is getting folks that know POF riled up. Noone denies or denied that POF-USA sold HK delayed blowback system parts (that were made on licensed HK tooling by Pakistani Ordnance).
The P415/416 and P308 aren't, weren't and never will be intellectual property of or built tooling from Germany via Pakistan. They are cranked out here in sunny AZ, USA on a bunch of CNC machines from programs that are run from US patented designs.
I don't have any authority to end the debate of the HK 416 vs P416 origination issue, but I do have half a brain and know when they both came out.......
Back to the original question.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rundown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alpha6164;
That is a well written and thought provoking post. The previous poster claiming a Pakastani connection was quickly dismissed, probably because of the tenor of his argument. I doubt your information will be so contemptuously dismissed, we shall see.
I don't have any first hand knowledge of the POF rifle, but from what I have seen on their site and read here it must be a quality product. <span style="color: #FF0000">I can't see that intellectual property and tooling from Germany via Pakistan is a deal breaker.</span> Hell, I rather like my AK and we know what kind of bastards designed and built those. </div></div>
The part in red is the mistaken assumption that is getting folks that know POF riled up. Noone denies or denied that POF-USA sold HK delayed blowback system parts (that were made on licensed HK tooling by Pakistani Ordnance).
The P415/416 and P308 aren't, weren't and never will be intellectual property of or built tooling from Germany via Pakistan. They are cranked out here in sunny AZ, USA on a bunch of CNC machines from programs that are run from US patented designs.
I don't have any authority to end the debate of the HK 416 vs P416 origination issue, but I do have half a brain and know when they both came out.......
Back to the original question.
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
rundown said:
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> And it is not that they <span style="color: #3366FF">(I'm assuming you mean POF-USA)</span> just "sold" the parts. They made the HK parts on tooling machines purchased from Pakistan. If you read the article on Arizona Response System it is very clear. </div></div>
You have some selective reading comprehension my friend, here's the text from AZGunplumber's preview that you linked:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/notes/noteshk/hkpof/pagehkpof.shtml</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The purpose of this page is to compare and contrast HK rifle parts manufactured in Germany with HK rifle parts manufactured by Pakistan Ordnance Factory (POF), with particular attention to fit and finish. POF is a licensed manufacturer of parts, accessories, and complete firearms. They are ISO 9000/1 certified and make parts for the German government as well as military and law enforcement sales world wide. Currently, the supply of German manufactured parts is at an all-time low, combined with prices being at an all-time high. A potential source for competitively priced parts and accessories bears consideration - provided the quality is acceptable.
When the owner of Pakistan Ordnance Factory - USA called me to ask if I would like to carry their product, I replied "Of course not - Paki stuff is crap." He invited me to his warehouse to examine for myself and I admit I was quite skeptical at first. I had seen some parts over the last 15 years, allegedly of Pakistani origin, that were not too impressive. POF realizes that access to the US commercial market requires parts that are not just functional, but also cosmetically appealing and the "new" POF products are very nice.
</div></div>
Maybe I'm missing the part that says Frank had HK licensed tooling and was making the parts here....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> And it is not that they <span style="color: #3366FF">(I'm assuming you mean POF-USA)</span> just "sold" the parts. They made the HK parts on tooling machines purchased from Pakistan. If you read the article on Arizona Response System it is very clear. </div></div>
You have some selective reading comprehension my friend, here's the text from AZGunplumber's preview that you linked:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/notes/noteshk/hkpof/pagehkpof.shtml</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The purpose of this page is to compare and contrast HK rifle parts manufactured in Germany with HK rifle parts manufactured by Pakistan Ordnance Factory (POF), with particular attention to fit and finish. POF is a licensed manufacturer of parts, accessories, and complete firearms. They are ISO 9000/1 certified and make parts for the German government as well as military and law enforcement sales world wide. Currently, the supply of German manufactured parts is at an all-time low, combined with prices being at an all-time high. A potential source for competitively priced parts and accessories bears consideration - provided the quality is acceptable.
When the owner of Pakistan Ordnance Factory - USA called me to ask if I would like to carry their product, I replied "Of course not - Paki stuff is crap." He invited me to his warehouse to examine for myself and I admit I was quite skeptical at first. I had seen some parts over the last 15 years, allegedly of Pakistani origin, that were not too impressive. POF realizes that access to the US commercial market requires parts that are not just functional, but also cosmetically appealing and the "new" POF products are very nice.
</div></div>
Maybe I'm missing the part that says Frank had HK licensed tooling and was making the parts here....
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
^^^Maybe i am just an idiot. But when article says the owner called him and asked him to come to the warehouse do you think the person flew to Pakistan? When they mention Pakistan Ordnance Factory-USA, what do you think they are referring to? Do you also think it is coincidence that the current POF-USA is in Arizona and Arizona Response System did the review?
^^^Maybe i am just an idiot. But when article says the owner called him and asked him to come to the warehouse do you think the person flew to Pakistan? When they mention Pakistan Ordnance Factory-USA, what do you think they are referring to? Do you also think it is coincidence that the current POF-USA is in Arizona and Arizona Response System did the review?
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
gunplumber went to the warehouse (probably Frank's garage at that time), not any manufacturing facility here in AZ where POF-USA was making parts on "tooling machines purchased from Pakistan".
That's on OLD review too......
gunplumber went to the warehouse (probably Frank's garage at that time), not any manufacturing facility here in AZ where POF-USA was making parts on "tooling machines purchased from Pakistan".
That's on OLD review too......
Re: LWRC vs. POF 20" 7.62NATO
I have a 16" REPR it is very accurate, I really like the side charging handle especially when shooting suppressed. POF is a good gun also a friend of mine has one but I just don't like the taller piston system, pure asthetics for me on that. I had one little problem with the LWRC when the gas adjust knob getting stuck when I shot it suppressed the first time but it worked itself loose after I shot it without the suppressor. I have not had any feeding issues I have read about with either the P Mags or the C products mags. I have both and so far no problems.
I have a 16" REPR it is very accurate, I really like the side charging handle especially when shooting suppressed. POF is a good gun also a friend of mine has one but I just don't like the taller piston system, pure asthetics for me on that. I had one little problem with the LWRC when the gas adjust knob getting stuck when I shot it suppressed the first time but it worked itself loose after I shot it without the suppressor. I have not had any feeding issues I have read about with either the P Mags or the C products mags. I have both and so far no problems.
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