M14 any good at 800 ?

[veeramani]

have an opportunity to get a USGI M14 with fibre stock. Is it capable of getting 1moa at 800m ? Can it handle hi pressure reloads ? What is the best scope mounting options ? Am I better off with an AR10 ?

No NFA flames please. This deal is all legit.

 

[AvsFan]

The AR10 platform will out shoot the M14 platform no question. However, if you have an opportunity to purchase a transferable USGI M14 and can afford it - I would do it as, there are very few in circulation and it will only continue to increase in value over time. What make is it? Springfield, TRW, Winchester?

 

[gminor]

Is it capable of getting 1moa at 800m ?

Are you capable of 1 MOA at 800 yards?

 

[bluto51]

Are you capable of 1 MOA at 800 yards?

Good point.

If you want 1 MOA at 800 yards, get a bolt gun. The M14 is a battle rifle and 1.5-2 MOA is probably
what to expect. If, for some reason, your M14 will actually hold a consistent 1 MOA at 100 yards (something
more often claimed than verified by the "all day long" owners), it will retain that same capability
at 800 - with the right ammo, wind conditions, acceptable mirage, properly built position, trigger control,
fundamentals and a good shooter.

I use a Basset low mount on my M21 with a Bushnell 3.5-21X50 G2HDMR and have had good results
out to 300 yards, which is as far as I've shot with it.

Here's a good site about reloading for the M14: http://www.m14.ca/reloading/14_loading.pdf
You can also check out the M14 forums for a wealth of information specifically geared to the M14 platform.

 

[samnev]

I have a Devine,TX M1A NM and with my hand loads or FGMM it easily holds 1moa at 100 yards. I would think some of the early Springfield NM or Super NM would do the same Perhaps even some of the earlier loaded M1A's as well. But I agree a good semi 308 like the LMT MWS would be a better choice for 800 yard shooting.

 

[judgedelta]

I would like to see a genuwine stock-out-of-the-box M14 with GI glass stock shoot 1 MOA at 100. I can't near 'bout do it with mine and it has a real nice walnut stock. A .308 AR would be much better; how much better depends on how much you want to spend. Whatever, won't cost as much as a M14 though.

 

[Oleshep]

In my experiece only Match quality M1As will shoot 1MOA or better. That is with Good ammo, Match Barrel, Match sights, trigger job, Glass Bedding, Op rod modification, and some other smithy tricks. Of course the monkey on the trigger has to do his job too..

 

[desert dog]

Get that gun for its collector value and leave it as is without accurizing. It is probably a 3-4 MOA gun anyway.

Get another gas gun for precision shooting.

 

[samnev]

With good ammo like 168 grain FGMM or my 168 grain SMK hand loads my 1975 M1A would shoot 1.5 moa most of the time.

 

[broylz]

is it a true USGI military m14 or is it a USGI spec springfield m1a or norinco etc. built with usgi parts? transferable select fire?

it can be done with a m14 but it is difficult/expensive to make it repeatable and then will require more maintenance. I love a good m14 pattern rifle. had a couple SAI m1as in the past. they were 2moa guns without modification. check out m14form.com for all m14 related info you could want. lots of people have great accurate rifles there.

 

[Name Enough]

I can get mine to shoot 1" MOA but I can't keep it shooting MOA. I have always felt a battle rifle should not be bedded. If you get an AR10 shooting 1 MOA with a good rifle, ammo and shooter - it will stay MOA> that a big difference for me.
Jus saying one mans humble opinion.

Just a post note - a match grade bedded M1A isn't really a battle rifle - it's a target rifle and performs well as such. Please don't convert a GI spec M14 to a match grade rifle. It would be a sin.

 

[OldGuardShooter]

I am taking both of these to the range Friday. The M1a i have is a Scout Squad in a EBR mod 1 with several upgrades . I am doing a comparison with it and my LMT MWS . i wont take them to 800 yards but i am hoping to see how they shoot at 300 yards . I just finished both of them up. I will let you guys know i have seen a few M1a vs Ar10 post before . I really like both rifles if i had to say before doing any testing which i would grab in a pinch it would be the LMT MWS for now but well see after testing. I would for sure buy the M14 if you have the chance to get it though.

 

[BCP]

have an opportunity to get a USGI M14 with fibre stock. Is it capable of getting 1moa at 800m ? Can it handle hi pressure reloads ? What is the best scope mounting options ? Am I better off with an AR10 ?

MOA @ 800 with a rack grade USGI one? No not really. 2-3 if you do your part.

High pressure loads? Depends on your definition of high pressure. I've made hotter loads for mine that were about 2650fps with a 175 sierra bullet but I like to keep them between 2550-2600.

Scope mounts = Basset, Sadlak, Smith Enterprise, ARMS 18

If you want to put a scope on it, load hot, and are hoping for 1MOA an AR10 will be an easier bet.

Still if you have a chance to get a decent M14 on a deal...buy it. It's a neat rifle and I see no reason not to have one in a collection.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Rack grade M-14's doing 1MOA at 800? I doubt it, and I carried one in 'Nam. Probably not even at 100yd, either; but that's no condemnation on my part.

For a basic service rifle it does quite well, and good 175gr handloads(Rem brass, 42.2gr IMR-4064, 210M, 175SMK, 2.815" OAL)/FGMM(GM308M2), etc., will get you close to 1MOA at 100 and to 2MOA at or around 800, and stays supersonic to 1000yd.

Depends at least as much on you as the rifle.

Because of the NFA BS, I wouldn't own an M-14 for any reason, including collector value. Let the next guy sweat the BATFE, and get yourself a nice Match Grade shooter, like a Frankford.

IMHO, a scoped M1A is an abomination; for scopes, get something based on the AR.

Greg

 

[broylz]

if you plan on doing a lot of high pressure loads, look into a Schuster adjustable gas plug or a notched gas piston if you don't need the adjustability.

 

[veeramani]

thanks for the info guys. Its an orginal Winchester with a camouflage pattern fibreglass stock. Really just want a good reliable shooter for anytime, anywhere. I find the AR10 surgically accurate but very picky, and prone to jamming.

Crazy mind, always wanting more gear.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

If your needs are that simple, I suggest the Springfield Armory "Loaded" M1A with the stainless barrel and black composite stock. You may save some by shopping through a local dealer, buying used, or by choosing the Chrome-Moly N/M barrel.

 

[lennyo3034]

If you have a chance to legally buy a USGI M14, BUY IT.

 

[Bennyboy]

I don't think that these two rifles can be compared in this way. They are different and when you start mounting optics, and asking things out of a rifle that was meant to be shot with irons, well, you might as well get an AR-10. I love the M1A/M14 and hate AR-10s but have both. Depending on the rifle and the shooter, 1 MOA is possible in capable hands. I watched a buddy bang steel at 700 with a standard M1A with irons. He had to walk it in with a spotter, but he hit is a couple times--with irons....most can't do that.

If I could own the rifle in question--it would be mine.

 

[K-tech]

The M14 platform is designed to be a battle rifle. To bang steel silhouettes at 800 is possible but probably not 1 moa. Getting a m14 type rifles to shoot below 1 moa at 100 is difficult enough. I own an m1a and love the rifle for what it is dont get me wrong, but when comes to precision the AR10 has it beat not to mention the ease of optic mounting.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

My M-1A had irons, my Garand has irons; and I think that's the way an M-1/M-14/M-1A platform should be shot.

My AR is a Stag Mod 6 Super Varminter flattop and uses optics, with a set of angle-offset BUIS, and I would only want to shoot the AR with irons as a fallback tactic. While I have done a lot of AR shooting with irons, I prefer the platform with optics, even if they are single power Reflex Sights. The Mod 6 has a 1/2MOA Guarantee with decent ammo, and I think mine can do that easily at 100yd, I get mostly 1MOA at 250 with PPU factory Match, and it's not bad at all with SHTF TulAmmo 55gr Ball Ammo. Clearly for my precision semi-auto needs my preference is for the Mod 6.

I think the two platforms dictate their own preferred shooting mode.

Having managed to get an armorer to install a selector on my M-14 in Nam; I can tell you that the M-14 is clearly not a suitable platform for Automatic Fire. I was also occasionally assigned the M-60, so I had a valid point of reference. Think "Rambo with a modicum of actual fire discipline", and you might get some insight.

But full auto M-14..., one round, maybe two, on target; the rest go Hasta La Bye-Bye, and the recoil is essentially uncontrollable where 'ballpark-accurate' automatic fire is concerned. Shorter bursts are not particularly simple to manage. The rifle lacks the solid mass and slower rate of fire that made the BAR so unbeatable. A full auto M-14 is pretty much little more than an ammo waster with nasty recoil delivered via a steel butt plate. The flip-up serves little useful purpose.

IMHO, tagging the M-14 with the BAR mission was a classic fail; so negotiating a path through the NFA briar patch simply to obtain a version that will accept a selector is an impractical, pointless goal.

FA is practical for reducing a Zombie Horde, period; and I ain't seen that many around my parts lately

Greg

 

[ReimoS]

True M14? If the platform has appeal to you, then go for it. I have shot mine out to 800 meters and it can keep it between 1 and 2 moa, depending on the shooter, with good batch M80. I also use 168 grain SMK-s (Sellier&Bellot's 168 gr Match, it uses SMK) and Lapua's 170 grain Lockbase. With the latter it is about 1 moa at 500-600 meters.

I have a low serial number Springfield (4 digit serial), and it has served me well so far.

 

[Layton]

I have a low serial number Springfield (4 digit serial), and it has served me well so far.

Mind me asking the first digit?

L

 

[Grump]

If the barrel is okay and the trigger group clamps the stock properly with some authoritative squeeze and the receiver heel is properly firm on the stock and the front of the stock pulls down on the barrel band with as-designed tension and the gas piston is tight or shimmed (the figure-8 nut should hit between 4:00 and 5:00 and tension in to 6:00) and nothing is binding the op rod and the flash suppressor is not rattling (vibrations) and the suppressor has been reamed to about .40 at the front hole AND your scope mounting is up to snuff,

assuming a decent optic

and using old M118 ammo, you can count on 2 MOA or better, probably out to 800.

If using M852 ammo or other quality 168-gr loads, 1.5 MOA or better at 800. That 1 MOA group at 100 never has a straight-sided cone of dispersion. If you are lucky or have a match barrel, the .5 to .75 MOA at 100 might be 1 MOA at 800. With 168s at below about 2,500 feet altitude, 800 is about the limit with those bullets.

If using new M118LR or 175-gr bullets, same accuracy as 168s most of the time, but you can stretch it to 1,000 even at sea level and in the cold. Probably 1,100.

M80 ball ammo--2-3 MOA at 100, noticeably worse at 800. M80 ball, unlike M2 ball in the Garand, WILL shoot to at least 600 without going unstable, but I don't know whether it will make 800.

And for you battle rifle snobs, please know that after the barrel, gas system fitting, bedding, and flash suppressor are done, the rest of the National Match tuning for the M14 is directed to assuring *reliability*. And that first list of mods does not "tighten tolerances" or anything in any way that reduces reliability, with the possible exception of a badly done chamber.

Using metal powders in your bedding also makes it possible to take the action out of the stock 5 times a year for three years without wearing anything out or compromising accuracy, too. Don't interpret target shooter caution as evidence of a problem. I wear seat belts while driving, but that's not evidence that I plan on ramming your car if I see you.