M40 - What Marine is in this photo?

[Son of Dorn]

Been looking for a poplin top in a half assed manner on EBay.

Put a few bids in just haven't landed one yet.

Dont go out of your way and consider the grandkids that it would be more important for them to play in your memory bag and realize how cool grand dad is than to have me using it as a shooting coat.

Actually started looking for a WWII summer service cotton khaki shirt

Tropical style, looking to channel Gunny Elmo Haney when I head to the beach or work in the yard...

View attachment 7374454

Kind of like old school US Navy blue cotton chambray shirts.

Those Summer khakis look like they were a sensible duty uniform - sharp when pressed yet easy enough to maintain if worked in.

It's repro but these folks have OG-107s, OD poplins, and ERDLs. May not have everything in stock, though.

Uniforms & Clothing

Vietnam War era uniforms, field gear, equipment and insignia.

www.mooremilitaria.com

Ditto with these folks for WWI & WWII summer shirts (US and UK alike).

http://onlinemilitaria.net/shopdisplayproducts.asp?Search=Yes&sppp=10&page=1&Keyword=summer%20shirt&category=ALL&highprice=0&lowprice=0&allwords=summer%20shirt&exact=&atleast=&without=&cprice=&searchfields=

 

[j-huskey]

That's what we wore when I first got to the Ranger BN in late '81. They came in a mix of slanted and straight pockets. Those got taken away from us late summer of '82, and I wore standard OD Green Jungle fatigues for the rest of my stay there.

What's your head size, Lilcockyfwocka?

Do have a set or two, of xl regular greens (like you wore) that my skinny ass looks lost in, and falls off .. u stay skinny, or u succumb to the retirement woe ?

 

[sandwarrior]

What's your head size, Lilcockyfwocka?

Do have a set or two, of xl regular greens (like you wore) that my skinny ass looks lost in, and falls off .. u stay skinny, or u succumb to the retirement woe ?

I went up, then I went down.... 56" chest, 44" waist. That is 3XL of the OG-107's. I still have the ones I left the service with that I can get one arm in. I think those were large_Regulars as I was 175# and wore a 44 jacket... when I got out...
23" on the head size. I just ordered an Australian Bush hat. I have to laugh, 22" neck. I look like a round nose bullet.

So, yeah, I succumbed to the retirement thing where I think I'm big , but, I'm really just fat. lol My wife loves that shirt though. Until some guy tried callin' her out on "stolen valor". She wouldn't say who it was, but I was just pissed! It was clear by the uniform and the fact she said "SHE WASN'T IN" that she was wearing my old "jacket, OG-107 Type 1, 1 each Large-Regular". If you don't have a need for them, she would love 'em. How much you want?

 

[j-huskey]

I went up, then I went down.... 56" chest, 44" waist. That is 3XL of the OG-107's. I still have the ones I left the service with that I can get one arm in. I think those were large_Regulars as I was 175# and wore a 44 jacket... when I got out...
23" on the head size. I just ordered an Australian Bush hat. I have to laugh, 22" neck. I look like a round nose bullet.

So, yeah, I succumbed to the retirement thing where I think I'm big , but, I'm really just fat. lol My wife loves that shirt though. Until some guy tried callin' her out on "stolen valor". She wouldn't say who it was, but I was just pissed! It was clear by the uniform and the fact she said "SHE WASN'T IN" that she was wearing my old "jacket, OG-107 Type 1, 1 each Large-Regular". If you don't have a need for them, she would love 'em. How much you want?

To a cockylilfwocka brother, $0.00....
PM me your address.

 

[sandwarrior]

Pics of the old stuff:

A couple notes: This is one of my jackets that didn't get the CIB. A matter of contention. There is a mustard stain on those jump wings though. I keep the original SCUBA badge, not the new one with the sharks and knives and stuff. Slanted pocket style.

Regarding the last line, I remember one NCO said to me once, "If God had wanted you to have pockets, he wouldn't have invented starch!" Pockets, great idea, lets not use 'em.

My wife loved wearing it until some guy made it a point to say something about "stolen valor" because he knew she wasn't a Ranger...NO SHIT SHERLOCK! She pointed out it was mine and she likes wearing it. She'd be happy to have me come down and explain it was okay and why...

 

[pmclaine]

That's what we wore when I first got to the Ranger BN in late '81. They came in a mix of slanted and straight pockets. Those got taken away from us late summer of '82, and I wore standard OD Green Jungle fatigues for the rest of my stay there.

My current Lt is Ranger School trained. 80s era.

Has a great print on his office wall of a Ranger in green jungles with the correctly formed Ranger patrol cap. Scene appears to show the Ranger on the skid of a Huey carrying an AK. Old print dated 1981. Neat art that I like to study for the details.

Ill pm the name. He earned his Tab and worked as a FO/FAC. Dont think he went to a BN was just attached to units that needed a guy with a radio capable of bringing the pain. High speed dude. One of the top tactical guys on my job until he got promoted out of that track. Eats up Crossfit and probably has sub 10% body fat in his early 50s.

Rangers in jungles were at PI on the range when I was going through boot. Remember a platoon of them going into the rifle range chow hall just prior to us. It was a memorable day because one of the platoon screw ups screwed up and our DI got in his personal space causing the boot to fall backwards over some gear grounded behind him.

Kid fell on his ass and ended up making a complaint.

As a result each of us had to go in front of a Captain and tell him we never saw the DI hit the recruit.

 

[sandwarrior]

My current Lt is Ranger School trained. 80s era.

Has a great print on his office wall of a Ranger in green jungles with the correctly formed Ranger patrol cap. Scene appears to show the Ranger on the skid of a Huey carrying an AK. Old print dated 1981. Neat art that I like to study for the details.

Ill pm the name. He earned his Tab and worked as a FO/FAC. Dont think he went to a BN was just attached to units that needed a guy with a radio capable of bringing the pain. High speed dude. One of the top tactical guys on my job until he got promoted out of that track. Eats up Crossfit and probably has sub 10% body fat in his early 50s.

Rangers in jungles were at PI on the range when I was going through boot. Remember a platoon of them going into the rifle range chow hall just prior to us. It was a memorable day because one of the platoon screw ups screwed up and our DI got in his personal space causing the boot to fall backwards over some gear grounded behind him.

Kid fell on his ass and ended up making a complaint.

As a result each of us had to go in front of a Captain and tell him we never saw the DI hit the recruit.

I heard rumors of them going there to shoot. Something of a "back to basics" COMPLETE education on shooting. Probably turns out I wasn't the only one getting Mulligans. And, unlike Big Army, SF and Rangers like keeping those ties with the Marines, especially the "extra skills" people.

Funny, it's something I always said about me "really" learning to shoot the M16, and that was I learned how to shoot from a former Marine who was an enlisted competition shooter for the Marine team. He ended that stint, went to college and took a commission in the Army. He ended up in the 1/75th as our S2. I don't know if his branch was Intel or Infantry. I wouldn't think Infantry. As a Maverick he probably wasn't upwardly mobile, as they say. Great guy ,and should have been. Just not the background the Army liked to put in higher positions.

The patrol caps we wore were poplin and some NCO's and Officers didn't like the 'blocked' caps and would correct Rangers for doing that. (25 pushups was std) There was no official banning of that practice, just a "I said so." Both Commanders made it publicly known, it was just fine. Stop busting people for doing it. Then again, Taylor made us wear helmets until everybody got busted for making too much noise. That and his Randall slappin' his ass when no one else was allowed to wear them... I was kinda vocal about double standards.

 

[pmclaine]

Not qualified to judge "proper" Ranger anything but a "proper" Ranger patrol cap to me is worn at a "Fuck you" angle forward and you kind of "fold in" the crown to accent the "Fuck you"

Ass kicker cover...

Not so much.....

 

[sandwarrior]

Not qualified to judge "proper" Ranger anything but a "proper" Ranger patrol cap to me is worn at a "Fuck you" angle forward and you kind of "fold in" the crown to accent the "Fuck you"

Ass kicker cover...

View attachment 7374894

Not so much.....

View attachment 7374895

That is a properly 'blocked patrol cap on top. However, he has no scroll or tab?? We didn't typically wear those sterile.

Either the guy in the beret has a really tall head or it's a size or so too small. The bottom of the beret is supposed to at least keep the tip of one ear warm/dry/shaded. Not to mention that is post "Black berets for everyone. We're all commandos" At which point, the Rangers moved to khaki (tan or sand as they now say).

 

[Davo308]

Morning Gentlemen.

In light of the recent explosion in Beirut and the awareness of the bombing there in 1983, when I was 3, I'd like to ask a few questions. Please understand that I have read about this conflict for years and am not asking lightly.

What role did military snipers play there? I read a few books in the early 2000's that mentioned sniper activity there.

I figure that maybe there were hostile counter snipers in the region too. How did they fight and what did they use?

What rifles and other gear were used? (I love this thread and have read through it trying to take it in).

What lessons or changes in tactics were taken in the military sniper community? How about in the military generally?

 

[Davo308]

Apparently I kill threads.

 

[Son of Dorn]

Apparently I kill threads.

Perhaps start a new thread on this topic? Might have better luck there.

 

[Davo308]

Perhaps start a new thread on this topic? Might have better luck there.

Ok what forum? Is it the sniping in Lebanon forum or the military circa 1983 thread?

1983 United States embassy bombing in Beirut - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

 

[Son of Dorn]

Ok what forum? Is it the sniping in Lebanon forum or the military circa 1983 thread?

1983 United States embassy bombing in Beirut - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

Start a new thread in the Vintage section? Or in the Bear Pit, I guess maybe, since it's more of a general discussion topic?

 

[sandwarrior]

Start a new thread in the Vintage section? Or in the Bear Pit, I guess maybe, since it's more of a general discussion topic?

That's actually the embassy bombing, not the Marine barracks bombing. I believe at that time we were in Hunter AAF/Ft. Stewart training. Not deployed.

At the time of the Marine Barracks bombing we had just gotten back from Germany doing the REFORGER deployment. Where the fucking extremists had also set off a bomb in or near the Octoberfest grounds in Munich. We attended the last week of that. It was as you may imagine, AWESOME!

 

[Son of Dorn]

That's actually the embassy bombing, not the Marine barracks bombing. I believe at that time we were in Hunter AAF/Ft. Stewart training. Not deployed.

At the time of the Marine Barracks bombing we had just gotten back from Germany doing the REFORGER deployment. Where the fucking extremists had also set off a bomb in or near the Octoberfest grounds in Munich. We attended the last week of that. It was as you may imagine, AWESOME!

Oktoberfest in Munich... at least once before I die, God-Emperor willing...

 

[Wilderness]

Im digging the Gerber MK2 knife!!

 

[Rock two-five]

Thank you for your service. Men like you paved the way for young boys to grow up free and become men like me. Thank you for standing the guard until I was able to.

May you sleep well every night knowing I will never give up the freedoms you fought for. That’s my promise to you and all the Marines that came before my time.

Semper Fi, Never Die.

Hell yeah! That’s what it’s all about. Trust me, I’m not going anywhere. Still train hard, shoot accurate.

 

[Davo308]

Hell yeah! That’s what it’s all about. Trust me, I’m not going anywhere. Still train hard, shoot accurate.

Still trying to learn about this.

Pretty hard core.

 

[Rock two-five]

Morning Gentlemen.

In light of the recent explosion in Beirut and the awareness of the bombing there in 1983, when I was 3, I'd like to ask a few questions. Please understand that I have read about this conflict for years and am not asking lightly.

What role did military snipers play there? I read a few books in the early 2000's that mentioned sniper activity there.

I figure that maybe there were hostile counter snipers in the region too. How did they fight and what did they use?

What rifles and other gear were used? (I love this thread and have read through it trying to take it in).

What lessons or changes in tactics were taken in the military sniper community? How about in the military generally?

There’s a lot to unpack regarding all of your questions. I’m happy to answer some of them now, but I could write a book answering the rest. There’s a lot that lead up to and took place there, that has never been mentioned in anything I’ve ever read.

The IDF (Israeli Defense Force) had gone into Lebanon in response to being attacked from their shared Border. Yaser Arafat and the PLO , along with Syrian backed Militias were those responsible.
IDF had extended themselves into Beirut and the Beqaa Valley. They had the PLO trapped up in Tripoli.
The UN wanted to go in there with “Peace Keepers” to allow the IDF to return back to Israel and create a buffer zone between them.
Reagan was our President at that time and he would not allow the UN to control our Armed Forces. So, he sent the Marines there to be a part of the Multi National force but only under US control, not the UN.

since we were supposed to be there to keep the peace, Scout/Snipers like myself and our STA Platoon teams were told not to speak to the Press and the Press were never allowed near us. They didn’t want the visual back in the States to show that we had Snipers or Assassin’s as one Major described us, in Country during a peace keeping mission.

We carried the M40A1 , 40x spotter scope, M16’s and .45 pistols

The enemy used AK 47’s of course as well as rockets, mortars and RPG’s

Im going to skip over a lot of details because I could write a freaking novel here explaining all of the shit lol

Once we started taking people out, the Press pushed the higher ups to talk with us. That’s when we began to get coverage and interviews. I was the Senior ranking Scout/Sniper in my area that consisted of (3)2 man Teams at the time, I spoke with the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, Chicago Tribune etc…

Last part of your question was “What lessons or changes in Tactics were made”?
We learned so much during our time fighting over there. A lot! Things that were not taught at Scout/Sniper school.

Upon returning to the States, you would’ve thought that we would be debriefed and asked a ton of questions? Not the case at all. We were the first Snipers since Vietnam, to get kills and yet no one asked us shit about what we did or learned.

That left future generations of Marine and Army Snipers, to learn what we already had learned the hard way.

 

[sandwarrior]

There’s a lot to unpack regarding all of your questions. I’m happy to answer some of them now, but I could write a book answering the rest. There’s a lot that lead up to and took place there, that has never been mentioned in anything I’ve ever read.

The IDF (Israeli Defense Force) had gone into Lebanon in response to being attacked from their shared Border. Yaser Arafat and the PLO , along with Syrian backed Militias were those responsible.
IDF had extended themselves into Beirut and the Beqaa Valley. They had the PLO trapped up in Tripoli.
The UN wanted to go in there with “Peace Keepers” to allow the IDF to return back to Israel and create a buffer zone between them.
Reagan was our President at that time and he would not allow the UN to control our Armed Forces. So, he sent the Marines there to be a part of the Multi National force but only under US control, not the UN.

since we were supposed to be there to keep the peace, Scout/Snipers like myself and our STA Platoon teams were told not to speak to the Press and the Press were never allowed near us. They didn’t want the visual back in the States to show that we had Snipers or Assassin’s as one Major described us, in Country during a peace keeping mission.

We carried the M40A1 , 40x spotter scope, M16’s and .45 pistols

The enemy used AK 47’s of course as well as rockets, mortars and RPG’s

Im going to skip over a lot of details because I could write a freaking novel here explaining all of the shit lol

Once we started taking people out, the Press pushed the higher ups to talk with us. That’s when we began to get coverage and interviews. I was the Senior ranking Scout/Sniper in my area that consisted of (3)2 man Teams at the time, I spoke with the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, Chicago Tribune etc…

Last part of your question was “What lessons or changes in Tactics were made”?
We learned so much during our time fighting over there. A lot! Things that were not taught at Scout/Sniper school.

Upon returning to the States, you would’ve thought that we would be debriefed and asked a ton of questions? Not the case at all. We were the first Snipers since Vietnam, to get kills and yet no one asked us shit about what we did or learned.

That left future generations of Marine and Army Snipers, to learn what we already had learned the hard way.

I have to ask if you mean first Marine Snipers or U.S. Military Snipers? Were you guys shooting before the bombing?

The reason I ask is our snipers were getting kills on 25OCT83 in Grenada. In fairness, two of them were graduates of the Marine Corps Scout Sniper course. There were others, but the two I know went through in the summer of '83.

I would have to say too, that was when the switch flipped military wide, that we ain't in Viet Nam anymore so stop training like that. The USMC SS school, IMO was still the best one for teaching specific skills and tactics of the basic sniper. But as you said, things changed a bunch with training and expectations. Urban warfare got ramped up big time. There was a lot NCO's of the old school saying 'this is what we always did' kind of training. That needed to be put on the shelf for another day.

 

[Rock two-five]

I have to ask if you mean first Marine Snipers or U.S. Military Snipers? Were you guys shooting before the bombing?

The reason I ask is our snipers were getting kills on 25OCT83 in Grenada. In fairness, two of them were graduates of the Marine Corps Scout Sniper course. There were others, but the two I know went through in the summer of '83.

I would have to say too, that was when the switch flipped military wide, that we ain't in Viet Nam anymore so stop training like that. The USMC SS school, IMO was still the best one for teaching specific skills and tactics of the basic sniper. But as you said, things changed a bunch with training and expectations. Urban warfare got ramped up big time. There was a lot NCO's of the old school saying 'this is what we always did' kind of training. That needed to be put on the shelf for another day.

Yes we were getting kills from July of 83 before the BLT bombing and after it. My Teams pulled out just before Thanksgiving of 83.

 

[Rock two-five]

I have to ask if you mean first Marine Snipers or U.S. Military Snipers? Were you guys shooting before the bombing?

The reason I ask is our snipers were getting kills on 25OCT83 in Grenada. In fairness, two of them were graduates of the Marine Corps Scout Sniper course. There were others, but the two I know went through in the summer of '83.

I would have to say too, that was when the switch flipped military wide, that we ain't in Viet Nam anymore so stop training like that. The USMC SS school, IMO was still the best one for teaching specific skills and tactics of the basic sniper. But as you said, things changed a bunch with training and expectations. Urban warfare got ramped up big time. There was a lot NCO's of the old school saying 'this is what we always did' kind of training. That needed to be put on the shelf for another day.

That’s me on the Right and my Bro Tommy Rutter on the Left. This was taken by a UPI photographer on October 15th 1983, when we scratched 6 ragheads and an Ayatollah poster for good measure.

If you thought that I was dissing Marine Scout/Sniper school in that post, I wasn’t. I agree with you in that it is, to my knowledge the best there is. We just learned the need for other things that were left out of training back at that time.

 

[SQ54]

Im going to skip over a lot of details because I could write a freaking novel here explaining all of the shit lol


That left future generations of Marine and Army Snipers, to learn what we already had learned the hard way.

Please do. I’ll buy it.

 

[pitspitr]

Please do. I’ll buy it.

+1

 

[TACC]

Without a doubt. Coolest thread on the hide.

Semper fi

 

[pitspitr]

Without a doubt. Coolest thread on the hide.

Semper fi

+1 I can't believe it was dormant as long as it was

 

[Davo308]

There’s a lot to unpack regarding all of your questions. I’m happy to answer some of them now, but I could write a book answering the rest. There’s a lot that lead up to and took place there, that has never been mentioned in anything I’ve ever read.

The IDF (Israeli Defense Force) had gone into Lebanon in response to being attacked from their shared Border. Yaser Arafat and the PLO , along with Syrian backed Militias were those responsible.
IDF had extended themselves into Beirut and the Beqaa Valley. They had the PLO trapped up in Tripoli.
The UN wanted to go in there with “Peace Keepers” to allow the IDF to return back to Israel and create a buffer zone between them.
Reagan was our President at that time and he would not allow the UN to control our Armed Forces. So, he sent the Marines there to be a part of the Multi National force but only under US control, not the UN.

since we were supposed to be there to keep the peace, Scout/Snipers like myself and our STA Platoon teams were told not to speak to the Press and the Press were never allowed near us. They didn’t want the visual back in the States to show that we had Snipers or Assassin’s as one Major described us, in Country during a peace keeping mission.

We carried the M40A1 , 40x spotter scope, M16’s and .45 pistols

The enemy used AK 47’s of course as well as rockets, mortars and RPG’s

Im going to skip over a lot of details because I could write a freaking novel here explaining all of the shit lol

Once we started taking people out, the Press pushed the higher ups to talk with us. That’s when we began to get coverage and interviews. I was the Senior ranking Scout/Sniper in my area that consisted of (3)2 man Teams at the time, I spoke with the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, Chicago Tribune etc…

Last part of your question was “What lessons or changes in Tactics were made”?
We learned so much during our time fighting over there. A lot! Things that were not taught at Scout/Sniper school.

Upon returning to the States, you would’ve thought that we would be debriefed and asked a ton of questions? Not the case at all. We were the first Snipers since Vietnam, to get kills and yet no one asked us shit about what we did or learned.

That left future generations of Marine and Army Snipers, to learn what we already had learned the hard way.

Thank you kindly and thank you for your service and what you've done.

Your experiences aren't exactly common.

Also I suspect you have a lot of inside baseball that would be valued.

Write it up! Wright a book! Talk to us!

Let it out.

We want to hear the inside baseball.

And we want to learn about your experience.

I have paid attention to the dates' it was about this time in 83.

For some reason I never associated the land of milk and honey with Grenada but it lines up.

This is the best thread in SH.

 

[sandwarrior]

View attachment 7729787That’s me on the Right and my Bro Tommy Rutter on the Left. This was taken by a UPI photographer on October 15th 1983, when we scratched 6 ragheads and an Ayatollah poster for good measure.

If you thought that I was dissing Marine Scout/Sniper school in that post, I wasn’t. I agree with you in that it is, to my knowledge the best there is. We just learned the need for other things that were left out of training back at that time.

I'm right in step with you. I knew you weren't dissing the school. Just that some things had to change. The school, like us, was in the old mode of VN training when we weren't doing something high speed. It was time that the 'high speed' approach took the lions share of training over.

@Davo308
I don't know if you saw it earlier or maybe another thread. The Marine Barracks was bombed on Sunday the 22nd of October '83 and that's when we got the Bravo notification (Everybody be here in the allotted 8 hrs. ) We spent the day checking/re-checking our stuff and deployment bags. Monday we get the briefing. To a man, we all thought Beirut. When told it was Grenada, we ALL went "Where's that??".

I never did understand why we let Beirut sit. We even lost a CIA station chief. Coming back from Grenada we should have been all over it. We (Rangers) even went up to McCall and trained for two weeks. It just never came about. Like we came back from Grenada to one big fat stand down.

Added: Contrary to the fucking media and some world leaders description, it was NOT a keystone cop type operation. It went down pretty fucking outstanding. Other than a few isolated fuck-ups, which the media LOVED to say how the whole thing went, it went pretty smoothly and effectively. And when people say there was nothing there, they should talk to the 82nd guys who found the underground warehouse of Soviet Weaponry. Not to mention the armed Cubans and revolutionaries that we fought in the four days we were there.

 

[Rock two-five]

I'm right in step with you. I knew you weren't dissing the school. Just that some things had to change. The school, like us, was in the old mode of VN training when we weren't doing something high speed. It was time that the 'high speed' approach took the lions share of training over.

@Davo308
I don't know if you saw it earlier or maybe another thread. The Marine Barracks was bombed on Sunday the 22nd of October '83 and that's when we got the Bravo notification (Everybody be here in the allotted 8 hrs. ) We spent the day checking/re-checking our stuff and deployment bags. Monday we get the briefing. To a man, we all thought Beirut. When told it was Grenada, we ALL went "Where's that??".

I never did understand why we let Beirut sit. We even lost a CIA station chief. Coming back from Grenada we should have been all over it. We (Rangers) even went up to McCall and trained for two weeks. It just never came about. Like we came back from Grenada to one big fat stand down.

Added: Contrary to the fucking media and some world leaders description, it was NOT a keystone cop type operation. It went down pretty fucking outstanding. Other than a few isolated fuck-ups, which the media LOVED to say how the whole thing went, it went pretty smoothly and effectively. And when people say there was nothing there, they should talk to the 82nd guys who found the underground warehouse of Soviet Weaponry. Not to mention the armed Cubans and revolutionaries that we fought in the four days we were there.

Roger that,
The Marine Battalion on “Air Alert” at that time was 2/6 and they flew in from the States to reinforce us after the bombing on 10/23/1983

The Marine Regiment that was inbound on Navy Ships to relieve us was diverted to Grenada . Can’t remember if that was 2/8 or 3/8. So they were with you guys on the Island as well.

 

[Rock two-five]

Thank you kindly and thank you for your service and what you've done.

Your experiences aren't exactly common.

Also I suspect you have a lot of inside baseball that would be valued.

Write it up! Wright a book! Talk to us!

Let it out.

We want to hear the inside baseball.

And we want to learn about your experience.

I have paid attention to the dates' it was about this time in 83.

For some reason I never associated the land of milk and honey with Grenada but it lines up.

This is the best thread in SH.

Honestly, I wouldn’t know how to go about writing the book or how to get it published? I’ve been in several that were written by others about me , but I’ve never told things from my own perspective.
I

 

[deltawiskey]

Honestly, I wouldn’t know how to go about writing the book or how to get it published? I’ve been in several that were written by others about me , but I’ve never told things from my own perspective.
I

Would you mind listing the books? I would like to look for them...
DW

 

[shoobe01]

(I only write technical articles and books, and man it's a slog. Same advise as for that field, start writing /anything/ and see how it goes).

Since some of the details of your activities may still be not for public release, I'd encourage an "oral history" version. Write it all up for yourself vs starting to blog it, let a friend read it or interview you to ask questions and clarify, fill in gaps. If you aren't good at writing (or don't know), let someone known-good take a pass at editing it. Many of us would love to read under embargo anyway so editing is a good excuse!

At the least now it's on paper so the world has your knowledge eventually. It can be referred to, donated to the appropriate museum, etc. If the trusted few think it's publication-good, submit to DOPSR to make sure they don't want to cut stuff that's still secret (no inside baseball there, just a form and an email address).

I am sure it's easy enough to at least find publications who will accept excerpts, etc. with zero effort. A book will come if everyone loves those. It's a process and people who jump straight to book often don't do so well.

 

[pitspitr]

Honestly, I wouldn’t know how to go about writing the book or how to get it published?

I would say, given the quality of your posts here, you're capable of writing a book if you choose to.

 

[Rock two-five]

Would you mind listing the books? I would like to look for them...
DW

One Shot, One Kill… Stalk and Kill… Trigger Men… those books tell either recounts of some kills told by my Teammate Cpl Tommy Rutter. Or in the case of Trigger Men, a brief story of some background on how I became a Scout/Sniper.
That photo of me in the prone is in countless publications. More than I even know. Some use my name others don’t.

 

[Rock two-five]

(I only write technical articles and books, and man it's a slog. Same advise as for that field, start writing /anything/ and see how it goes).

Since some of the details of your activities may still be not for public release, I'd encourage an "oral history" version. Write it all up for yourself vs starting to blog it, let a friend read it or interview you to ask questions and clarify, fill in gaps. If you aren't good at writing (or don't know), let someone known-good take a pass at editing it. Many of us would love to read under embargo anyway so editing is a good excuse!

At the least now it's on paper so the world has your knowledge eventually. It can be referred to, donated to the appropriate museum, etc. If the trusted few think it's publication-good, submit to DOPSR to make sure they don't want to cut stuff that's still secret (no inside baseball there, just a form and an email address).

I am sure it's easy enough to at least find publications who will accept excerpts, etc. with zero effort. A book will come if everyone loves those. It's a process and people who jump straight to book often don't do so well.

Thank you for all of that information. Those are things that I had not known at all about the process.
What is a DOPSR?

 

[shoobe01]

Thank you for all of that information. Those are things that I had not known at all about the process.
What is a DOPSR?

DOD office that clears publications to make sure no security issues with the assigned or intended classification level. For you, a public book, it would be seeking unclass, but they do other stuff.

Defense Office of Prepublication and Security Review

www.esd.whs.mil

 

[Rock two-five]

DOD office that clears publications to make sure no security issues with the assigned or intended classification level. For you, a public book, it would be seeking unclass, but they do other stuff.

Defense Office of Prepublication and Security Review

www.esd.whs.mil

Thank you!

 

[Davo308]

I'm right in step with you. I knew you weren't dissing the school. Just that some things had to change. The school, like us, was in the old mode of VN training when we weren't doing something high speed. It was time that the 'high speed' approach took the lions share of training over.

@Davo308
I don't know if you saw it earlier or maybe another thread. The Marine Barracks was bombed on Sunday the 22nd of October '83 and that's when we got the Bravo notification (Everybody be here in the allotted 8 hrs. ) We spent the day checking/re-checking our stuff and deployment bags. Monday we get the briefing. To a man, we all thought Beirut. When told it was Grenada, we ALL went "Where's that??".

I never did understand why we let Beirut sit. We even lost a CIA station chief. Coming back from Grenada we should have been all over it. We (Rangers) even went up to McCall and trained for two weeks. It just never came about. Like we came back from Grenada to one big fat stand down.

Added: Contrary to the fucking media and some world leaders description, it was NOT a keystone cop type operation. It went down pretty fucking outstanding. Other than a few isolated fuck-ups, which the media LOVED to say how the whole thing went, it went pretty smoothly and effectively. And when people say there was nothing there, they should talk to the 82nd guys who found the underground warehouse of Soviet Weaponry. Not to mention the armed Cubans and revolutionaries that we fought in the four days we were there.

I missed that thread.

Also for some reason reason I never associated Lebanon as happening at the same time as Granada.

I googled Tommy Rutter and saw he attended an memorial event for the barracks bombing and learned many survivors still have trouble going to such events. Lots of highly traumatic memories and people have been carrying it around for close to 40 years.

 

[Davo308]

DOD office that clears publications to make sure no security issues with the assigned or intended classification level. For you, a public book, it would be seeking unclass, but they do other stuff.

Defense Office of Prepublication and Security Review

www.esd.whs.mil

There's and F14 RIO who mostly writes. He discusses some of the pitfalls with getting a declass.


""

 

[Rock two-five]

There's and F14 RIO who mostly writes. He discusses some of the pitfalls with getting a declass.


""

Very informative, thanks for posting that Video!

 

[SQ54]

Maybe this can help with the writing:

by Robert A. Heinlein

On the Writing of Speculative Fiction - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Rock two-five]

I missed that thread.

Also for some reason reason I never associated Lebanon as happening at the same time as Granada.

I googled Tommy Rutter and saw he attended an memorial event for the barracks bombing and learned many survivors still have trouble going to such events. Lots of highly traumatic memories and people have been carrying it around for close to 40 years.

Rut goes every year to the Memorial. I go once in a while and we are always in touch.
Regarding what you mentioned about a lot of Beirut Vets living with and dealing with “Trauma” from our time there. The term PTSD was not used before we returned from Beirut. At least no one , myself included, ever heard it. We were all familiar with Shell Shock and other terms but not PTSD. I looked it up once and I believe it became a term in 1980?

Anyway, I always thought it was bullsh*t
I thought it was guys whining and faking it. I figured that all the crap I experienced, the killing the death , losing my entire Company to a truck bomb… It didn’t effect me. So, I thought it didn’t effect anyone. I believed that for 25 years after Beirut. Until I went to memorial with Rut, my Sniper Teammate, and all these guys who served there during the fighting, would come say hi to me. I could tell something wasn’t right emotionally. One after another, they would come talk with me and Tommy. Then go away either in tears or acting peculiar.
Finally, I asked Rut, what’s up with those guys? They’re whacked.
Tommy told me that most of them were on disability after being diagnosed with PTSD. I said, “That’s real?!” Yeah Rock, it’s very real.

The 11 hour drive home from that memorial had me asking forgiveness to everyone that, in my mind, I thought was faking it and using the term as a crutch. It was very humbling. I was wrong for all of those years.

The sh*t never bothered me that way and I feel truly blessed because I now know the horror that other Vets have to live with.

I joined the Corps to waste the enemy, period. It’s all I wanted to do. I never owned Dress Blues or cared about any of that crap. I think I would’ve had emotional problems if I never did get to fight.

 

[Rock two-five]

Maybe this can help with the writing:

by Robert A. Heinlein

On the Writing of Speculative Fiction - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thank you! His 5 rules make a lot of sense. “Don’t rewrite”… I already know that I’m guilty of doing that lol!

 

[6.5SH]

Honestly, I wouldn’t know how to go about writing the book or how to get it published? I’ve been in several that were written by others about me , but I’ve never told things from my own perspective.
I

Aside from the actual writing a lot of the technical aspect of formatting and constructing a book and self publishing are covered here:

KDP University

kdp.amazon.com

There are still plenty of publishers who specialize in military history so is no need to sell your soul to Amazon. But is a lot of good info there regardless.

 

[SQ54]

Thank you! His 5 rules make a lot of sense. “Don’t rewrite”… I already know that I’m guilty of doing that lol!

Don’t erase or throw it away. Just write more to go with it. Then write a final draft.

 

[sandwarrior]

Rut goes every year to the Memorial. I go once in a while and we are always in touch.
Regarding what you mentioned about a lot of Beirut Vets living with and dealing with “Trauma” from our time there. The term PTSD was not used before we returned from Beirut. At least no one , myself included, ever heard it. We were all familiar with Shell Shock and other terms but not PTSD. I looked it up once and I believe it became a term in 1980?

Anyway, I always thought it was bullsh*t
I thought it was guys whining and faking it. I figured that all the crap I experienced, the killing the death , losing my entire Company to a truck bomb… It didn’t effect me. So, I thought it didn’t effect anyone. I believed that for 25 years after Beirut. Until I went to memorial with Rut, my Sniper Teammate, and all these guys who served there during the fighting, would come say hi to me. I could tell something wasn’t right emotionally. One after another, they would come talk with me and Tommy. Then go away either in tears or acting peculiar.
Finally, I asked Rut, what’s up with those guys? They’re whacked.
Tommy told me that most of them were on disability after being diagnosed with PTSD. I said, “That’s real?!” Yeah Rock, it’s very real.

The 11 hour drive home from that memorial had me asking forgiveness to everyone that, in my mind, I thought was faking it and using the term as a crutch. It was very humbling. I was wrong for all of those years.

The sh*t never bothered me that way and I feel truly blessed because I now know the horror that other Vets have to live with.

I joined the Corps to waste the enemy, period. It’s all I wanted to do. I never owned Dress Blues or cared about any of that crap. I think I would’ve had emotional problems if I never did get to fight.

I never thought I had PTSD. I heard the term shortly after I got out. Many of us former Rangers always joked that it was just a very sharp edge on our survival skills. Many people have said it's hard to deal with my intensity. I'd get 5-7 hours of sleep at night interrupted by waking up all the time. I patrol the house at 3 or 4 AM cuz I heard a mouse fart. I have dogs so that if something is heard or smelled, they bark. I'd wake the dogs up with, "Didn't you hear that?"

I would 'normalize' things like my quick temper by saying stop saying or doing something to piss me off. Many say my anger is unreasonable. Then give the stupid 'turn the other cheek' phrase to me. Been there, done that, got punched in the back of the head. The best way to put an end to someone's bullshit is to meet it head on before they're ready for it. Apologize to those around who had to see the dark side of me. I guarantee you that old lady won't cut me off at the frozen food aisle again...(joke).

When you find yourself being controlled by reactions to experiences, you need to stop and look at how you do stuff. Yes, those experiences make you wary, and that can be good. Your senses pick up on things that can be wrong. But then again, they may also limit what you may want to be doing in today's world. You have to take the time to pick some things apart to see which is which. Keep your drive-on going. Don't let your drive-on run people over if you don't have to.

Like you, I never experienced any sort of depression over lost comrades. 18 total friends killed, mostly in training accidents. Mentally, we passed them on to the Ranger Valhalla and remember them that way. We remember their lives. Not so much that they ended. Not everyone stays out of that rabbit hole though. We try to stay in contact with each other and help when we can. Helping a buddy is cathartic.

 

[Rock two-five]

Don’t erase or throw it away. Just write more to go with it. Then write a final draft.

That makes a lot of sense. I’ve saved what I’ve written over the years for the most part. I even have my writings that I penned after a few of my kills. My Dad, who was a Marine as well, told me that he regretted not keeping a journal of what he did while in the Corps. Grunts don’t have a ton of time to write because we take up all that time complaining about the suck lol!

It is cool to read what I had written just hours after the fact. To see spots where the ink had run from the drops of my sweat hitting the paper as I wrote the details of each shot.

I appreciate all of you, for your input and the encouragement.

I never thought people would be very interested in reading what my experiences were. So I shelved the idea for all these years.

 

[Rock two-five]

I never thought I had PTSD. I heard the term shortly after I got out. Many of us former Rangers always joked that it was just a very sharp edge on our survival skills. Many people have said it's hard to deal with my intensity. I'd get 5-7 hours of sleep at night interrupted by waking up all the time. I patrol the house at 3 or 4 AM cuz I heard a mouse fart. I have dogs so that if something is heard or smelled, they bark. I'd wake the dogs up with, "Didn't you hear that?"

I would 'normalize' things like my quick temper by saying stop saying or doing something to piss me off. Many say my anger is unreasonable. Then give the stupid 'turn the other cheek' phrase to me. Been there, done that, got punched in the back of the head. The best way to put an end to someone's bullshit is to meet it head on before they're ready for it. Apologize to those around who had to see the dark side of me. I guarantee you that old lady won't cut me off at the frozen food aisle again...(joke).

When you find yourself being controlled by reactions to experiences, you need to stop and look at how you do stuff. Yes, those experiences make you wary, and that can be good. Your senses pick up on things that can be wrong. But then again, they may also limit what you may want to be doing in today's world. You have to take the time to pick some things apart to see which is which. Keep your drive-on going. Don't let your drive-on run people over if you don't have to.

Like you, I never experienced any sort of depression over lost comrades. 18 total friends killed, mostly in training accidents. Mentally, we passed them on to the Ranger Valhalla and remember them that way. We remember their lives. Not so much that they ended. Not everyone stays out of that rabbit hole though. We try to stay in contact with each other and help when we can. Helping a buddy is cathartic.

I can almost see you doing that too! Waking up the dogs lol

 

[6.5SH]

That makes a lot of sense. I’ve saved what I’ve written over the years for the most part. I even have my writings that I penned after a few of my kills. My Dad, who was a Marine as well, told me that he regretted not keeping a journal of what he did while in the Corps. Grunts don’t have a ton of time to write because we take up all that time complaining about the suck lol!

It is cool to read what I had written just hours after the fact. To see spots where the ink had run from the drops of my sweat hitting the paper as I wrote the details of each shot.

I appreciate all of you, for your input and the encouragement.

I never thought people would be very interested in reading what my experiences were. So I shelved the idea for all these years.

I have many of the books in your picture above. I look forward to buying and reading your book if you go forward with it.