M40A3 T&E Rifles

Coejro

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  • Apr 6, 2017
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    Sitting around on a cold winter’s night wandering the cobweb ridden halls of the interwebs, and what do I find but a suppressed M40A3.

    I know this photo has floated around, and I never paid much attention to it, but now I’ve half a mind to build a clone and most of the parts lying around to do so.

    So, my question is, anyone know more about the M40A3 trial guns with what look like Ops Inc. suppressors? (Web article from 2000 linked for reference)

    IMG_0327.jpeg

    IMG_0328.jpeg


     
    Initial assumptions are:
    AEM5-30|Ops Inc 12th model (since the m24 AE suppressor used direct thread, and this has a brake)
    Likely base gun was a standard M40A3, but could have different barrels, so I’m curious there.
    Finally, the fielding unit looks like 1st recon, based on the landscape and recon hoody on the bench in the second photo.
     
    Pat Rogers wrote a great article on the West Coast 1st Force Recon Battalion when LTC Bob Coates commanded. The three of us worked together in the National Capitol Region in the early- to mid-90s.

    Most guys who knew of Pat think of him as an NYPD ERT (SWAT) and CQB carbine and pistol guy. He also shot on the Marine Reserve Rifle Team and was a Distinguished Rifleman.

    Strong Men Armed
     
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    Damnit!!!!! I was hell bent on a “traditional” A3 and have all of the parts minus the Unertl, but now looking at this thread………. I find myself really liking this variant.

    Does anyone know how hard it would be to acquire the correct suppressor and brake attachment? Specs on the barrel? Length?
     
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    Just saw this thread. I shot one of the prototype A3s that was suppressed when I went through SSAC 1-01 in the spring of 2001, SSIC at Quantico had a whole 1 available then being tested. I couldn't tell you what suppressor was on it, but it was not a screw on, I'll try to explain it as best and I can remember. It had an index notch on the brake with a spring retention mechanism on the can, you'd insert it into the barrel compressing the spring, give it a 1/4 turn, then it would be retained by the spring pressure in that notch. It was effective, but I think there were durability issues with the design as of course it never got fielded.
     
    Interesting. That almost sounds like an early Gemtech with a bi-lug design. So 2 different solutions tested on opposite coasts.

    ETA: Sinister brings up a good point, Surefire had an index pin. I don’t know if they used spring based mounts though. Early Gemtech definitely did but used lugs.
     
    So browsing through Surefire’s site, they stood up their supressor division in 2002. No idea if that marked the beginning of their interest or just when they felt it was financially feasible enough to be its own internal entirety.

    The XM3 used a Surefire, (but interestingly enough one of the 3 XM3 test rifles was trialed with a Gemtech)
     
    @Redmanss time and age…….

    I shot a subsonic 308 chassis platform for a day up at quantico while going through SSBC. Issued rifle was still an M40A5 at the time, and to this day I can’t remember who made it, or any particulars other than it was topped with an S&B and was the first rifle I ever realized was truly close to movie suppressor silent.

    That and we all had a good laugh about dialing the same elevation at 300 yards for it that we were dialing for our A5’s at a grand.
     
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    I wish I was more into photography back then, I highly doubt I have a picture of it. I’m moving next month and will at least have cause to dig through old photos just in case.

    But if anyone has Heisterman’s contact info, he’d know what it was.
     
    Anyone know why they didn’t go with a suppressor at all on the A3? The article makes it seem like it was a done deal…
    Timing (9/11) and money. Fictional AAAVs and lawn dart Ospreys aren't cheap, and there were Hadjis to kill now instead in two years. A couple senior bubbas from SSIS hand delivered the first combat fielded M40A3s to STA 3/6 in Kandahar in 2001, just to shit and get them into use. Ready or not, here we go to war.

    Never mind the fact field grade and flag ring knocker 0301 zeros hates (sorry, hated, has to be past term now they really got their way) Scout Snipers. "Bun'cha Damn Cowboys" that we were and all...

    Bun'cha Damn Faggots is what we think of them.
     
    Timing (9/11) and money. Fictional AAAVs and lawn dart Ospreys aren't cheap, and there were Hadjis to kill now instead in two years. A couple senior bubbas from SSIS hand delivered the first combat fielded M40A3s to STA 3/6 in Kandahar in 2001, just to shit and get them into use. Ready or not, here we go to war.

    Never mind the fact field grade and flag ring knocker 0301 zeros hates (sorry, hated, has to be past term now they really got their way) Scout Snipers. "Bun'cha Damn Cowboys" that we were and all...

    Bun'cha Damn Faggots is what we think of them.
    30+ years and the ospreys are still junk
     
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    The most commonly used correct recoil lug for the M40A3 and M40A5 sniper rifles are the DD Ross made recoil lug. There's a guy who sells them for Dan Ross on Gunbroker and they're only about $45 each. There's absolutely no reason NOT to buy one of the legit DD Ross recoil lugs for A3 and A5 clone builds. Just get one of them and move on to the next part.

    There were also a handful of PWS made recoil lugs, but these were very rarely made/used. PWS probably made some of the recoil lugs for prototype A3's and early A3's before they got the DD Ross made lugs. PWS also had about 50 Badger Ordnance recoil lugs, I think that Marty traded them for some parts or gave them to PWS (I can't remember the story). My random guess is that it's probably about a 9 out of 10 chance to have a DD Ross recoil lug in the actual issued USMC A3 and A5 rifles, that's how few of the PWS and Badger lugs were used. Dan Ross was making hundreds of recoil lugs at a time for the Marine Corps, and he was sending them in bulk to PWS. The Marines used a ridiculous amount of his recoil lugs.
     
    I think the unanswered question is regarding the seemingly “in the white” recoil lugs that appear in pictures on occasion. I’ve got four original lugs, and for some reason, two aren’t black.
     
    I don’t know where in the build process black oxide finish was. Skunk, I wonder if you have two take-offs and two that were never assembled (and hence never oxided?

    Why the pictures show an unfinished lug I can only conjecture, but my guess is this.

    The pictures show that it’s being tested with a recon battalion (or at least the shooter is). Recon BN’s have 2112’s, though non-deployed work on a sniper rifle is very uncommon, it would normally just go back to PWS. Since this is a unit level modification, I’d say they spun the barrel off, reprofiled it, and used a replacement lug for whatever reason when they put it back on.

    That doesn’t explain why the reprofiled section isn’t in the white either though, it would seem odd to refinish it and not a lug. Maybe it walked away mid modification? Unusual but not impossible.
     
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    My two unfinished lugs show evidence of having been assembled, but are otherwise identical to the black ones (except for paint).

    You ask good questions, though. May never know the answers.
     
    I don’t know where in the build process black oxide finish was. Skunk, I wonder if you have two take-offs and two that were never assembled (and hence never oxided?

    Why the pictures show an unfinished lug I can only conjecture, but my guess is this.

    The pictures show that it’s being tested with a recon battalion (or at least the shooter is). Recon BN’s have 2112’s, though non-deployed work on a sniper rifle is very uncommon, it would normally just go back to PWS. Since this is a unit level modification, I’d say they spun the barrel off, reprofiled it, and used a replacement lug for whatever reason when they put it back on.

    That doesn’t explain why the reprofiled section isn’t in the white either though, it would seem odd to refinish it and not a lug. Maybe it walked away mid modification? Unusual but not impossible.

    The unfinished and polished part of a barrel profile usually involves an over the barrel silencer, such as the Mk11 silencer on the Mk13 sniper rifles. It's much easier to clean up the carbon and junk off a polished barrel vs finished barrel.

    The Ops Inc silencers also go over the barrel, but their .22 cal. 12th Model that's used on all the rifles in the Mk12 series have always gone over a finished barrel (no polishing under the silencer). The USMC M14 DMR rifles with Ops Inc silencers (probably the same type that's seen on the prototype M40A3's) didn't have polished barrels either. Look at the photos below, it's just like the Mk12's that also use Ops Inc silencers, they all have fully finished barrels.

    force-recon-sniper-jpg.359846


    In the A3 photos, the rest of the barrel is black oxide finished, but only a small part under the silencer (right before the barrel taper that plugs the rear of the silencer) is shiny. But, it's only that small area that's shiny, not the entire area under the silencer. That black under the silencer might not be carbon build up on an unfinished part of the barrel, it could all be black oxided and the shiny area is just where the silencer is rubbing on the barrel finish and bits of carbon (carbon build-up can polish to the point that it's a little shiny). The silencer is constantly removed and attached during testing (back and forth, and spinning), so it's reasonable that the shiny part is wear from the silencer constantly rubbing on that spot. That's the Occam's Razor explanation.

    The other explanation would be to black oxide the barrel, put it on the lathe, spin it up and remove the finish on the part of the barrel under the silencer, polish that area so that it's easier to clean carbon off it, mount the barrel to the receiver, shoot the A3 with the silencer on and let the carbon junk build up, remove the silencer, take a photo of the rifle without the silencer, fast forward 10 something years and post photo on the internet, have guys on Sniper's Hide examine a very low quality grainy photograph and come up with crazy explanations for why the barrel is shiny in only a certain spot while the rest of the barrel is black oxide, profit.

    To me, the first explanation is more plausible, but I'm just speculating on this, so no one should just assume that my explanation is the correct one without further research! That's extremely important when it comes to speculations, it's just the best guess that I can give without further information. No more, no less. And this also applies to the recoil lug comments in the following paragraph below.

    The recoil lug is probably in the white because it's a USMC just made the piece, and they might be testing different thicknesses or something like that. It's not a crucial part that needs to be finished, so just put it on the rifle as is instead of waiting to use the blueing tanks. I have a few original USMC recoil lugs, and one of them is a lot thicker than the normal A3/A5 recoil lugs! It could also be a prototype titanium or aluminum (the pre-Mk13's used a prototype aluminum "L" shaped recoil lug, but those lugs were anodized black) recoil lug, since the Marines also experimented with reduced weight parts in order to reduce the overall weight of the rifle. This is especially important if you're adding weight to the weapon (the silencer), but want to stay the same weight as a regular production A3. Badger Ordnance even submitted 5 or less prototype aluminum scope bases to PWS for testing. I actually have one of the prototype aluminum A3 scope bases that wasn't sent to PWS (Marty gave it to me long ago) in my collection.

    So, I have absolutely no idea why the recoil lug in the photos is in the white, but I can speculate on it all day long! Maybe one of these thoughts is correct, or maybe they're all wrong. Again, we need further information for verification, so please don't take anything in my post as the actual explanation.
     
    Well……..suppressor came back approved. 9 days total from certification to approval. I’d thought 6 months or so and hadn’t even begun to think about sending the BA off to reprofile the barrel.

    As of now I have:
    GAP A3 barreled action - needs the spec lug and the barrel profiled
    DD Ross BM
    S&B 3-12
    34mm badger M40A3 rings with simrad cap
    AEM5-30
    Harris bipod with tank knob and KMW podloc

    Just need an A4 stock cut for DD Ross BM really to complete the parts.
     
    Just waiting on the action to clear waiting period. Found a nice E676XXXX serial for the build. Not pictured are a DD Ross lug and rail that will go on the build as well.

    IMG_1466.jpeg



    Also, this picture came from a post in a different forum by @USMCSGT0331 - if you look in the background there are clearly some Ops Inc suppressors, and the rifles in the foreground and DD Ross BM A3’s with early windowed S&B’s. So really less of a theoretical build than I thought.

    IMG_1467.jpeg
     
    See
    Just waiting on the action to clear waiting period. Found a nice E676XXXX serial for the build. Not pictured are a DD Ross lug and rail that will go on the build as well.

    View attachment 8420349


    Also, this picture came from a post in a different forum by @USMCSGT0331 - if you look in the background there are clearly some Ops Inc suppressors, and the rifles in the foreground and DD Ross BM A3’s with early windowed S&B’s. So really less of a theoretical build than I thought.

    View attachment 8420355
    Here’s the other side of that photo. I’m doing a suppressed a3 also
     

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    @Topgun117 who’s building it for you?

    I have everything together now, just need to decide on the builders. My thoughts are (in order of priority)

    Raven (sadly no longer building guns, so that’s out)
    Outback custom guns (Bill Corliss)
    RWS (familiar with the AEM profile so that’s a plus)
    GAP
    LRI

    Open to opinions on who would do this build best, GAP gets pushed down because I’d like oxide finish and they only cerakote.
     
    @Topgun117 who’s building it for you?

    I have everything together now, just need to decide on the builders. My thoughts are (in order of priority)

    Raven (sadly no longer building guns, so that’s out)
    Outback custom guns (Bill Corliss)
    RWS (familiar with the AEM profile so that’s a plus)
    GAP
    LRI

    Open to opinions on who would do this build best, GAP gets pushed down because I’d like oxide finish and they only cerakote.

    Man I hate to say this but I spoke to Mr. Corliss at Outback a month or so ago on the phone about possibly clip slotting a 700 action since I believe he was one of the last around that did the correct early style for an M40... He told me he wasn't taking on any more work and was looking to retire shortly. Hopefully he'll hang in there a while longer but it didn't sound promising.
     
    @Topgun117 who’s building it for you?

    I have everything together now, just need to decide on the builders. My thoughts are (in order of priority)

    Raven (sadly no longer building guns, so that’s out)
    Outback custom guns (Bill Corliss)
    RWS (familiar with the AEM profile so that’s a plus)
    GAP
    LRI

    Open to opinions on who would do this build best, GAP gets pushed down because I’d like oxide finish and they only cerakote.
    Double check with GAP on the oxide, I heard they were doing it now...although I heard thru the grapevine and not directly from GAP.
    DW
     
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