Magnum hunting rifle dilemma

[Freediver111]

So I have a M70 XTR sporter mag in .338 win. Took it to AK and shot a moose with it. All good there. I had some feed issues and decided to play with it to possibly dial it in for some mid range elk hunts. I generally find it hates the heavier bullets. Found a good node with 230 eld-x, but groups were terrible. It had a BOSS on it but the previous owner chopped it off and had the barrel recontoured. It likes 200 accubonds, but current load it likes best is only moving 2600 FPS. It also kicks like a mule and the barrel end is pretty skinny now, so brakes are tougher to install correctly. It also has a short mag box, not allowing me to load closer to the lands.

My buddy offered to buy it as a project gun so now I’m thinking replacements.

I have some other guns in milder recoil calibers like 6.5 that I love, but they’re all heavy for hunting and yes, a 6.5 can kill an elk/moose, but for moose in particular for bear country seems too light.

I think a 300 win or even better a 300 wsm in a Tikka t3x would be great to carry and reasonably priced, but I shot a t3x in 300 wsm and it was terrible. Kick was so bad I hated it. I’m thinking if I go that route I’ll brake it for sure. I can always take the brake off for hunting. I also read that the 300 wsm can have the bolt stop removed to allow for longer bullet seating depths in the Tikka.

Does this plan of action make sense!? I’m not a fan of brakes that much for hunting, but I’m trying to find that balance of a lighter weight carry rifle but make it enjoyable to shoot at the range, so brakes make sense there.

I’ve thought about just going with a .308, but the moose hunting in grizz country just keeps leading me back to a 300 or 338.

Thoughts or advice on this one without spending a ton on a custom route?

 

[Supersubes]

Does it have to be a 30/338 magnum? Recoil seems to be an issue, and you don’t like brakes. Split the difference with a 7 rem mag. Can’t go wrong with a tikka in general, and they do make a 7rm.

 

[W54/XM-388]

There is also the 6.5 PRC and the .300 PRC to consider.

 

[Blutroop]

Are you on foot or 4 wheeler when hunting? Get a pistol for bear. They ambush from time to time so you want something more handy then a bolt action rifle. Then lighten up and go with a 6.5.

 

[b6graham]

There is also the 6.5 PRC and the .300 PRC to consider.

Seekins make full rifle around $2k

same pricepoint you can easily build an origin too

tikka is fine for the short action magnums cause its a 3.4" coal limit. but 300WM and bigger it's just pretty blah

 

[DukeGSP]

I just traded a .338 RUM in a 700 for a tikka .300wsm I would've made a sweet deal on. had a brake and all.

 

[stello1001]

You complain about those rifles kicking bad, and I totally get it. In a lightweight platform, you'll definitely feel them. Why not do a 30-06? You're still shooting a 30cal but it's a non magnum so recoil should be less. Also, whatever route you go, get a muzzle device to tame it even more.

 

[Supersubes]

Seekins make full rifle around $2k

same pricepoint you can easily build an origin too

tikka is fine for the short action magnums cause its a 3.4" coal limit. but 300WM and bigger it's just pretty blah

I was just recommending this to a friend. They make a 6.5 PRC and. 28 Nosler in the PH2. Should come nicely under the $2k mark.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I’d forgo the Tikka. The hardest recoiling one I’ve had was in 308 and that sucked so I couldn’t imagine a magnum. I also think they’re great rifles for the money and very accurate, but I think they leave a lot to be desired for a hardcore hunting rifle and I’m not sure how much I’d trust one long term. I’ve broken some things on them, and the magazines suck.

If you’re trying to stay in approx the same price range and get bang for your buck I’d look for a Sako 75 or 85 stainless model. I had a stainless 75 in 300WSM briefly and it didn’t recoil bad at all, it was very accurate with just factory ammo, the action is like a vault, and the bottom metal (actual metal unlike Tikka) and magazine are excellent. Extra mags are a little pricey, but it’s not like you need 10, and the quality is worth it. You can find those for $750 used or less if you look on gunbroker and such. Not sure why they don’t hold their value better but you’re basically getting a $1500 rifle for half price.

The Weatherby Vanguard S2’s are my go to for out of the box sub $1K hunting rifles. Hard to beat those things if you want to buy new.

 

[Freediver111]

So I don’t see as much of an advantage going with a 7mm vs say a 300/338. That’s just me though. I love 6.5’s and .308’s for the lessened recoil factor, but I just find it hard to justify getting another rifle of the same caliber to lessen carry weight. The 7mm in a lighter gun will still kick like a donkey. I know, since I’ve shot several 7mm’s and they still tend to kick. Buddy has a Remmy in 7mm with a heavy barrel and stock, still kicks like a mule. I did see a tikka SS in 30.06 for sale that caught my eye in and my price range. I’m still debating it, but I just don’t see the ol .06 as a huge advantage for longer range elk hunts. It’s tempting though.

I’m also looking to shave costs, as I’m still saving up for moose hunt round two next year. While strictly speaking for moose, shots are pretty close and it’s less of a factor to set it up for long range. That being said, I’d ideally set this up with my SWFA 3-9 and have it dialed to 600-800 yards, which a 300 variant can handle for elk.

Just some of thought process. Also, I like the Vanguards I’ve handled, BUT I shoot lefty and I can’t stand the Monte Carlo stocks!!!!!

 

[DukeGSP]

i wouldn't rule out the 7 STW. i've got a 7mm STW with a CF barrel and I believe it would make a great hunting rifle. had to have a custom brake made for it since the TP on the CF was out of the normal but I would rate the recoil around a .308 with no brake.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

So I don’t see as much of an advantage going with a 7mm vs say a 300/338. That’s just me though. I love 6.5’s and .308’s for the lessened recoil factor, but I just find it hard to justify getting another rifle of the same caliber to lessen carry weight. The 7mm in a lighter gun will still kick like a donkey. I know, since I’ve shot several 7mm’s and they still tend to kick. Buddy has a Remmy in 7mm with a heavy barrel and stock, still kicks like a mule. I did see a tikka SS in 30.06 for sale that caught my eye in and my price range. I’m still debating it, but I just don’t see the ol .06 as a huge advantage for longer range elk hunts. It’s tempting though.

Stock design and material have a lot to do with how much perceived recoil is transferred to the shooter. The el cheapo tupperware stocks tend to be about the worst IMO and some woods and laminates can suck and some can feel significantly better. Whereas the fiberglass and carbon stocks seem to really help reduce recoil. A simple $250 B&C medalist can make a world of difference in perceived recoil.

The stock is only one equation, but it certainly makes a difference in how hard you get hit and not just what the caliber, bullet weight, velocity, and gun weight are.

 

[Tac Beard]

Seekins chambers the PH2 in .338 Win Mag now. That should be a sweet setup.

 

[Freediver111]

Seekins chambers the PH2 in .338 Win Mag now. That should be a sweet setup.

Beautiful rifle, but out of my price range if I’m going to pay for another AK trip. I’m fortunate that my buddy lives there and has a couple planes, but it’s still not a cheap hunt. I also like the .338 WM as I have all the reloading gear for it, but there’re not easy to find in a lower cost option. I handled a Ruger American Go Wild in .338. Thought it might be a good option since it’s cerakoted and brake installed. I ran the bolt a few times and metal shavings were coming off the bolt body! No thanks Ruger!

 

[Tac Beard]

How much have you experimented with different loads in your M70? Keeping that rifle might be your best option. I know the XTRs aren’t as sought-after as the controlled feed models but they usually can be made to shoot.

In my experience the Barnes TSX and TTSX almost always give good accuracy in the 338WM, and they’re hard to beat for hunting in AK bear country. Try the recommended powders from the online Barnes load data. I like Ramshot Hunter, IMR 4350, and H4831SC in the 210-250gr range. Try Varget with the lighter weight 160 & 185s, you’ll be impressed.

 

[Freediver111]

How much have you experimented with different loads in your M70? Keeping that rifle might be your best option. I know the XTRs aren’t as sought-after as the controlled feed models but they usually can be made to shoot.

In my experience the Barnes TSX and TTSX almost always give good accuracy in the 338WM, and they’re hard to beat for hunting in AK bear country. Try the recommended powders from the online Barnes load data. I like Ramshot Hunter, IMR 4350, and H4831SC in the 210-250gr range. Try Varget with the lighter weight 160 & 185s, you’ll be impressed.

I might try that. I got the gun several years ago before I did any reloading. My buddy gave me some different loads to try and settled on 200 gr accubonds with something like 73 grains of RL19. They group excellent but only move 2580-2590.
I bought some 230 ELD-X and tried a few test loads ranging from 69-71 grains of H4350. 70.5 grains showed great ES/SD but groups were crap. Mag box only allows me to load them 0.1” off the lands. In my 6.5 I have great results loading the ELD’s to 0.02” from the lands.
I’m considering playing with it a bit more, but the thin barrel after they removed the BOSS makes it tough to get a break threaded. It’s 0.515” at the muzzle end. Quite thin!

 

[Another Casual]

Rebarrel might be cheaper than starting fresh. Also, as above the stock fit and material has made a big difference for me in the past. I'd try some different models for feel/fit. New stock and a rebarrel and you may find yourself around the price of a new Tikka but with a custom gun setup how you want.

 

[BCX]

35 Whelen will give you 338 WM performance in a lighter kicking rifle. Run a Barnes, Trophy Bonded Bear Claw or Accubond.
If your a long range hunter theres plenty of factory rifle combos to be had cheaper than a custom build. I just picked up a Christensen Arms Mesa....not a bad hunting rifle for $1200ish.

 

[TM6]

The 30-06 with a Nosler 200grn Partition is no slouch. It will put a smackdown on Elk, Moose and Bear from muzzle to 400-500yds. In heavier cover the 220NPT makes good medicine too.

TM6

 

[ramblr72]

Just throwing out some ideas to help you brainstorm...

A lefty Bergara HMR in .300 WM might have enough weight to get perceived recoil close to a standard .30-06 rifle. It might be more weight than you want to carry though.

If you like Vangaurds, you could go with a Howa from Legacy with a straight comb for lefty shooting. (My buddy is a lefty and he put his .300 Weatherby Mag in the Hogue stock Legacy uses with a Triad lefty stock pack because he hated shooting from the "wrong side" of the Weatherby Monte Carlo.)

Also, are you planning to take shots beyond 300 yards? If not, a Tikka in .30-06 should do the job for Moose and Elk.

 

[XL Mammal]

This should help you compare recoil: https://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

I've never found a reason to go bigger than 7mm Rem Mag. Then again, it should only be one trigger pull if you're doing it right. More than a couple and you're either a lot better hunter or lot worse shot than the rest of us

 

[Dewey7271]

I’d bet if you rebarreled the 70 with a bit longer thus heavier tube, stuck a break on it, and put a decent stock with a limbsaver on it you’d be pleased and save over the cost of new

 

[Freediver111]

I’d bet if you rebarreled the 70 with a bit longer thus heavier tube, stuck a break on it, and put a decent stock with a limbsaver on it you’d be pleased and save over the cost of new

I thought about that. It has a Winchester plastic stock that’s perfectly useable and a Limbsaver pad I installed. I have used a smith on a few occasions to build my custom 6.5 and work on other guns. He quoted me $600-ish for a new Benchmark barrel installed and around $150 for one of his custom brakes. Not bad, but mag length is still short and the action seems a little stiff after the previous owner had it cerakoted. It works, but I do like that Tikka action! Stocks for winnys are harder to come by and add costs. I was just thinking if I sell the M70, I’d have the funds to buy a Tikka say in Chrome Molly, then get it threaded and braked for a little more. Sure, it’s not stainless but it still works.
I don’t know. It’s a tough call. If it wasn’t for trying to sock away more money for moose hunt round 2 I’d pony up for something like a Christianson and call it good!

 

[Freediver111]

Just throwing out some ideas to help you brainstorm...

A lefty Bergara HMR in .300 WM might have enough weight to get perceived recoil close to a standard .30-06 rifle. It might be more weight than you want to carry though.

If you like Vangaurds, you could go with a Howa from Legacy with a straight comb for lefty shooting. (My buddy is a lefty and he put his .300 Weatherby Mag in the Hogue stock Legacy uses with a Triad lefty stock pack because he hated shooting from the "wrong side" of the Weatherby Monte Carlo.)

Also, are you planning to take shots beyond 300 yards? If not, a Tikka in .30-06 should do the job for Moose and Elk.

For moose no, we killed three bulls and all were under 150 yds. For elk, yes sir. We regularly kill them at 500-600 yards. I shot a cow at 500 last year with my custom 6.5, but I’m leery about taking a poke on a big bull with a 6.5 beyond 400.

 

[Freediver111]

I just checked out a Bergara B14 Hunter online. Any perspectives on that? Uses 700 aftermarket accessories and has a threaded barrel for a brake. Seems like maybe a decent option over a Tikka, but I’ll likely be in the same cost range as buying a blued T3X and have it threaded and brake. Cost to thread the barrel is pretty cheap.
Didn’t Bergara have some issues with light primer strikes or something to that effect?

 

[42N8 1]

There is also the 6.5 PRC and the .300 PRC to consider.

I would also look at these calibers.

 

[Tac Beard]

I might try that. I got the gun several years ago before I did any reloading. My buddy gave me some different loads to try and settled on 200 gr accubonds with something like 73 grains of RL19. They group excellent but only move 2580-2590.
I bought some 230 ELD-X and tried a few test loads ranging from 69-71 grains of H4350. 70.5 grains showed great ES/SD but groups were crap. Mag box only allows me to load them 0.1” off the lands. In my 6.5 I have great results loading the ELD’s to 0.02” from the lands.
I’m considering playing with it a bit more, but the thin barrel after they removed the BOSS makes it tough to get a break threaded. It’s 0.515” at the muzzle end. Quite thin!

One nice thing about the Barnes monos is they’re almost always happy at mag length with .050” or more jump. For real man, try them out. I bet you’ll love the accuracy.

Sounds like your barrel is too thin to thread for a brake, but you could definitely get it ported to calm the recoil down.

Hunting in AK is expensive, heck, I live here and it’s a lot! If you just really want a new rifle, go for it! BUT if you can make this one work, that $$$ can go toward better boots or better rain gear or better binos or a better pack...

 

[Tac Beard]

I just checked out a Bergara B14 Hunter online. Any perspectives on that? Uses 700 aftermarket accessories and has a threaded barrel for a brake. Seems like maybe a decent option over a Tikka, but I’ll likely be in the same cost range as buying a blued T3X and have it threaded and brake. Cost to thread the barrel is pretty cheap.
Didn’t Bergara have some issues with light primer strikes or something to that effect?

Bergaras tend to be very accurate. There are some common minor issues with the B14 line: weak extraction, weak ejection, and the firing pin having lots of space around it— causes problems with cratering small primers (if you use them) and occasional light primer strikes. If you get a Bergara, it’s a good idea to have a smith install a little stronger ejector spring, bush the firing pin, and maybe upgrade the extractor. I know there are a couple good smiths out there installing M16 extractors on B14s.