Rifle Scopes Making first purchase, need info...

[joelinux]

So, I'm saving up for my first rifle and scope, and doing as much reading as possible....

I've narrowed it down to the Nightforce ATACR 7-35X56F1 and the Leupold Mark 5HD 7-35x56.

They look practically identical, but I'm looking at it with very amateur eyes (no pun intended).

Here are the specifications side by side. Can anyone tell me if anything jumps out as a clear or overall winner? Is there a specification I'm missing between the two that would make a huge difference?

SPECIFICATION	ATACR 7-35 X 56 F1	Leupold Mark 5HD	Units
Focal Plane	First	First
Magnification Range	7-35x	7-35x
Objective lens diameter	56	56	mm
Tube diameter	34	35	mm
Internal adjustment range	e: 100 w: 60	e: 100 w: 50	MOA
Click value	0.25	0.25	MOA
Exit pupil diameter	7x:6.0 35x: 1.6	7x: 8 35x: 1.6	mm
Eye relief	3.26-3.58	3.6-3.8	In.
Field of view @100 yards/100 meters	7x: 14.97 35x: 3.44	7x: 14.7 35x: 3	ft
Objective outer diameter	65	64.5	mm
Eyepiece outer diameter	44	44.7	mm
Overall length	16	15.7	inches
Weight	39.3	33	Ounces
Mounting length	6.5	6.2	inches

 

[fastfwd]

Can anyone tell me if anything jumps out as a clear or overall winner? Is there a specification I'm missing between the two that would make a huge difference?

You're asking the wrong question. What you've listed are just the scopes' identifying characteristics; trying to make a decision by comparing them would be like trying to choose a car by only comparing vehicle weight, number of doors, engine size, and minimum octane rating.

To choose between those scopes, you'll want to know about image quality, ruggedness, ergonomics, warranty and after-sale support, etc. And even before you ask about those things, you might want to describe your particular application and see whether the experts here think a 7-35x scope would even be appropriate.

 

[Rekkr870]

The Nightforce is going to have the better reputation for being a high end, rugged, and optically superior scope. However, the NF is going to cost you at least $1,000 more. Plenty of people do fine with the Mk5, but you've got to decide if that $1k is worth it to you.

If it were me, I'd take my $3600 and skip the NF all together. I feel like they have some strange features (or lack thereof) for the price you pay compared to other optics in that price range. I'd scratch up another couple hundred and check out some offerings from TT. Schmidt and Bender and Zero Compromise Optics have some nice stuff for the same price as the NF.

The Mk5 is nice, but the other scopes I listed are really in a different tier. I hope this helps.

 

[acudaowner]

you could find more for less

 

[patriot07]

I agree. No offense at all to the OP, but this post reads like, "I don't know much about cars, but I'm trying to decide between a Ferrari and a high-end Porsche."

When you're in this price range, they're all good. The differences are mostly related to what's important to you personally. I think you'd be very well-served to find an opportunity to see a bunch of different options in your price range in person and lay hands on them and look through them. Then you'll have a much better idea of what you like or don't like.

I personally think the ATACR 7-35 is a fantastic scope, so if you're independently wealthy, you could just start with that and change if you want to.

If you're not independently wealthy and you need a scope now, buy a Vortex Razor Gen 2 4.5-27 and then if/when you sell it, you'll only be out a couple hundred dollars max. It's a great scope though, and you're unlikely to ever really need anything better. It runs $1800, and I'd buy it before the Leupold that you have listed above.

 

[joelinux]

You're asking the wrong question. What you've listed are just the scopes' identifying characteristics; trying to make a decision by comparing them would be like trying to choose a car by only comparing vehicle weight, number of doors, engine size, and minimum octane rating.

To choose between those scopes, you'll want to know about image quality, ruggedness, ergonomics, warranty and after-sale support, etc. And even before you ask about those things, you might want to describe your particular application and see whether the experts here think a 7-35x scope would even be appropriate.

Good point.

As I stated in other threads, (and have been mocked for it), my wife is marginally supportive of my desire to get I to ELR/ULR, and so has limited me to only one rifle at a time.

(Yes, the joke has been made that I need to get a different wife. Haha. I've run the numbers, and I couldn't afford to shoot if I did, and besides, she looks great in a bikini.)

Anywho, I am planning on getting a 3rd gen RPR in 6.5 creedmoor, then eventually swapping it out for either a .375CT or .416B rifle of some sort when I am ready.

As I don't want to repurchase all of my other equipment when I make the jump, I am looking for equipment that will satisfy both setups.

I acknowledge that these scopes might be Overkill for the 6.5 setup, but I think it will be the right one when I get the longer range rifle.

 

[AMP!]

Honestly I would vote back to the drawing board.
You can get some great optics like a Gen II Razor, 5-25 ATACR or even something like a Kahles 525i from the post exchange here for less and would fit a 6.5 CM RPR very nicely. Buy it used here and if you want to trade up when you go to a 375CT you can do so without losing much cash if any. You could likely sell the whole package for a chunk of change to start the next project as well.

 

[joelinux]

Honestly I would vote back to the drawing board.
You can get some great optics like a Gen II Razor, 5-25 ATACR or even something like a Kahles 525i from the post exchange here for less and would fit a 6.5 CM RPR very nicely. Buy it used here and if you want to trade up when you go to a 375CT you can do so without losing much cash if any. You could likely sell the whole package for a chunk of change to start the next project as well.

I appreciate the input, but I'm trying to minimize turnover to just the rifle itself. I don't want to count on the resale value of the scope to help me make the jump up. Plus, I think there is some value to learning on a singular scope.

So, if I could just narrow the scope (see what I did there?) to just a singular scope selection that would be viable for both setups, I'd appreciate it.

 

[patriot07]

The 5-25 ATACR is still much less than what you're talking about and more than adequate for both. It has tons of adjustment range, which makes it good for ELR.

I'm not as crazy about the Razor for ELR because it does lose clarity towards the end of its adjustment range.

 

[AMP!]

I appreciate the input, but I'm trying to minimize turnover to just the rifle itself. I don't want to count on the resale value of the scope to help me make the jump up. Plus, I think there is some value to learning on a singular scope.

So, if I could just narrow the scope (see what I did there?) to just a singular scope selection that would be viable for both setups, I'd appreciate it.

Well if it's going to be your forever girl, I'd get the ATACR. I loved mine, more so than my Leopold Mk6 even.

 

[GIXXER2000]

Never been Leupold fan. Having said that i have had a chance to look at the 7x35 NF at an ELR match and i can say it was pretty good. I shoot S&B as the glass looks better to me then the NF. If those are your choices i would go the NF.

 

[AllWorkAndNoPlay]

Nightforce for sure and keep in mind if you don’t need FFP you can get more for your money with a Nightforce NSX...

 

[KittieKatt]

Everyone has different eyes.. We all see things a little differently.. If possible I would try to look at both optics and see what one looks best to you.. Everyone loves to peddle the wares of companies they like for what ever reasons they like them.. and will always put down a company they do not like for what ever reason... This is just human nature. While I would say it is very wise to listen to everyone and see what they have to offer in their experiences and preferences, I think it is important to form your own opinion. You have to be happy with your choice not them... You will be using it to shoot not them.. Take all input with a grain of salt. At the end of the day though you looking through them and holding them will tell you far more than any stats or opinions.. I would suggest trying to look at them in person.. See if one jumps out at you over the other..

 

[AllWorkAndNoPlay]

Everyone has different eyes.. We all see things a little differently.. If possible I would try to look at both optics and see what one looks best to you.. Everyone loves to peddle the wares of companies they like for what ever reasons they like them.. and will always put down a company they do not like for what ever reason... This is just human nature. While I would say it is very wise to listen to everyone and see what they have to offer in their experiences and preferences, I think it is important to form your own opinion. You have to be happy with your choice not them... You will be using it to shoot not them.. Take all input with a grain of salt. At the end of the day though you looking through them and holding them will tell you far more than any stats or opinions.. I would suggest trying to look at them in person.. See if one jumps out at you over the other..

Good solid advice and I’d go a step further and dial the turrets for a feel of the quality...

 

[Mr Punisher]

Both scopes are pretty close, but nightforces way more expensive, and I like Mark 5 HD glass a little bit better, especially at low light condition. I don’t think nightforce has a better reputation than Leupold.
I would never spend 1000 bucks more for nightforce.
Plus Leopold is here in Oregon, just in case if something breaks, I can just drive there for a placement, but I’ve never used their warranty yet ,every Leupold scope I have works just fine.

Vortex Razor 2

 

[SRPowah]

Why didn't you ask this in your first post when people recommended these optics? I said the NF there, I will say the NF here. That is personal preference.

Have you considered easing in to it with a cheaper optic until you learn what you actually want out of an optic before blowing 3k?

 

[joelinux]

Why didn't you ask this in your first post when people recommended these optics? I said the NF there, I will say the NF here. That is personal preference.

Have you considered easing in to it with a cheaper optic until you learn what you actually want out of an optic before blowing 3k?

Yup, and you are the one that turned me onto the Nightforce! I was leaning that way, but I wanted to get a consensus when the choices were narrowed to just those two...

That thread got polluted with people telling me which/where/what else I should be doing besides the actual scope.

I wanted to recenter and focus on these two. Even now, people are trying to get meta and tell me my approach is wrong, but at a much reduced rate.

Less noise here, more signal.

 

[jd5521]

Unless you’re getting a smoking deal on an MK5 then NF is the way to go

 

[patriot07]

Yup, and you are the one that turned me onto the Nightforce! I was leaning that way, but I wanted to get a consensus when the choices were narrowed to just those two...

That thread got polluted with people telling me which/where/what else I should be doing besides the actual scope.

I wanted to recenter and focus on these two. Even now, people are trying to get meta and tell me my approach is wrong, but at a much reduced rate.

Less noise here, more signal.

The reason folks are going a few different directions is that those two particular scopes aren't directly comparable for most purposes. Most people that are really interested in precision work are going to lean heavily towards the ATACR.

But when you clearly don't have a lot of insight into other options, we start making other recommendations because neither is generally considered a great beginner type option.

 

[plong]

... Even now, people are trying to get meta and tell me my approach is wrong...

One might reasonably call that a "Clue"... Signal's there, check tuning on receiver

OT: Nightforce

 

[Devildog]

Having bought two NF 7x35’s in the last month I needn’t say more. Get the Nightforce, you won’t regret it.

 

[joelinux]

One might reasonably call that a "Clue"... Signal's there, check tuning on receiver

OT: Nightforce

Except in this thread, they are happening at such a small degree that they are in the noise.

 

[seansmd]

Another thread with this guy same story, claiming noob, being vague, shitting on feedback, adding more requirements.

Gives us noobs a bad name.

 

[plong]

Miss the old 'Hide ... VJJ, Boltripper... et al. where are you?

 

[joelinux]

Another thread with this guy same story, claiming noob, being vague, shitting on feedback, adding more requirements.

Gives us noobs a bad name.

I was fairly specific here. I am a n00b. And I'm not sh*tt*ng on feedback. I'm telling people who are expanding the scope of my question to stay inside the lanes.

And you just contradicted yourself "being vague" and "adding requirements" are the exact opposites. You are saying that I have too large a scope, and attempt to restrict the scope. Make up your mind.

 

[Poorboyr]

My vote is for Leupold. When you get to that price range of the nightforce, might as well get a theta.

 

[patriot07]

I was fairly specific here. I am a n00b. And I'm not sh*tt*ng on feedback. I'm telling people who are expanding the scope of my question to stay inside the lanes.

And you just contradicted yourself "being vague" and "adding requirements" are the exact opposites. You are saying that I have too large a scope, and attempt to restrict the scope. Make up your mind.

You have too large a scope in that you're comparing scopes that don't really make much sense to compare, and then you're adding requirements like ELR in as well. I think that's really the gist of what he was getting at.

 

[seansmd]

So the original post is a simple request to ask for help on the two scopes. But vague in that you don't tell folks what the application is, hence the vagueness of your question. Thumbing your nose at the feedback. Then turn in post 7 you let the readers know you are looking to buy a scope for elr/ulr, and mounting it on a RPR, having not shot any long range at all on any platform. Then we get more educational feedback soundly ignored.

I now believe you are a noob looking for information, I do not believe you are willing to learn since you have proven over three separate threads an unwillingness to listen and learn, arrogance or ignorance has yet to be determined.

 

[joelinux]

So the original post is a simple request to ask for help on the two scopes. But vague in that you don't tell folks what the application is, hence the vagueness of your question. Thumbing your nose at the feedback. Then turn in post 7 you let the readers know you are looking to buy a scope for elr/ulr, and mounting it on a RPR, having not shot any long range at all on any platform. Then we get more educational feedback soundly ignored.

I now believe you are a noob looking for information, I do not believe you are willing to learn since you have proven over three separate threads an unwillingness to listen and learn, arrogance or ignorance has yet to be determined.

Yes, some people are asking me what to do waaaay outside of the question I'm asking.

Some people can understand and accept what and why I'm doing what I'm doing. They have been extraordinarily helpful in this thread for helping me come to a decision, and are a credit to this site and it's purpose.

Others like yourself can't accept it, so they come into these threads, sh*t it up by saying that they know what is best for me, and that I should follow the same path as them.

With no offense to you and those that have said similar things, thank you for your input, but that is not the question I asked.

In another thread, after explicitly saying that the wife will only allow one rifle, you, or someone who thinks along your lines said, "you're going to want two rifles anyway."

Thank you, but no. I'm not going to start a fight with the wife because a person on the internet said so. (And yes, that *was* a picture of my wife)

It's why I started this thread: I needed a fresh start from people ridiculing me and my reasons for taking the approach I am.

To restate, I want to minimize repurchases when I trade up. In my experience, I tend to invest too heavily in the lower skilled item and fail to move up when the time is right because of the sunk cost fallacy.

I want to have all my gear and support equipment ready for the jump up to ELR/ULR when the time comes.

So, I limited the scope of what I want to purchase to the two scopes that look like they will be usable for both the creedmoor, and moving up.

Yes they are a bit pricy upfront, but, as an engineer, I know the importance of investing in good tools. I have the means to do so, so that is the course of action I have selected.

I understand the concerns that you, and people who think like you do, have about my course of action. It might be a bit unusual, but it is the route I have selected at this time.

Please respect my limitations to the question at hand and answer in the scope requested (puns, I've got them). I've been very nice about it in the past, but you seem hellbound to antagonize me.

Yes, my first thread turned into a troll after people excessively went after me. After people got so bent out of shape, I decided just to say things to get them spun up.

The remaining threads are in earnest. Please respect my boundaries. In between the meta arguments, I've gotten some really good information. So far, this site has been a net positive in my multi-year quest to get to ELR/ULR ranges. Please help make it more so for me.

 

[seansmd]

I haven't given you any advice, other than mocking advice to your trolling, I tend to not put people on ignore, good luck with your pursuits.

Being an engineer of many decades I listen and learn from those with scars.

I have empowered and coached many engineers on my teams over the years to blaze their own path and fail as a means to be innovative and learn.

I have fired several engineers over the years who mandated their own path, thumb their noses at their peers, shown arrogance beyond their abilities, and general lack of humility.

 

[TangoSierra916]

Sorry if I missed it here, but whats your intended use for the scope? You mention stepping up to ELR, is that what the primary use will be? both are going to be great optics, between the two companies is there a reticle you are targeting, because that may make your choice easier too? (CCH vs MIL-XT mandates one or the other)

The ATACR is kicking the shit out of the industry right now and will likely hold resale long term in case you want to switch down the road, however you're paying more up front and if the MK5 7-35 is close to the MK5 5-25 its an impressive scope.

That being said your eyes may hate what other people eyes like, so you really should try to get behind these scopes and see which you prefer as a package (glass, feel, function, reticle, etc.)

If youre picking one today, I'ld go Leupold, save some $ up front shoot the heck out of it learn if you need something else or not, then if needs change switch optics.

 

[joelinux]

I haven't given you any advice, other than mocking advice to your trolling, I tend to not put people on ignore, good luck with your pursuits.

Being an engineer of many decades I listen and learn from those with scars.

I have empowered and coached many engineers on my teams over the years to blaze their own path and fail as a means to be innovative and learn.

I have fired several engineers over the years who mandated their own path, thumb their noses at their peers, shown arrogance beyond their abilities, and general lack of humility.

And I have found that you need to find engineers on a similar path as you.

What a Mech E. needs to do may have some carryover to an EE, but you need to know when the needs and requirements are different, and for what reason. What works on one project might fail miserably on another due to the people involved.

Additionally, one lesson I've learned through lots of failed social interaction is the need to trust an engineer when they say, "I can get it done, but my mind doesn't work that way."

Enforcing a "one-size-fits-all" approach frequently fails on me. I have a number of learning difficulties I've had to overcome, but as a result, I frequently come up with unique solutions that fall outside of the norm, but solve the problem.

If an engineer knows themselves, and thinks they can get it done while still using standardized tools, I tend to let them try. I'm frequently pleasantly surprised.

My needs/requirements are different than the typical shooter. Additionally, I know myself.

If I've made myself comfortable in 6.5 creedmoor, with the tooling that can't make the jump up, I am very likely to just stay at 1000 yards, and never move up. And that isn't the goal I set for myself.

Can you understand that?

 

[joelinux]

Sorry if I missed it here, but whats your intended use for the scope? You mention stepping up to ELR, is that what the primary use will be? both are going to be great optics, between the two companies is there a reticle you are targeting, because that may make your choice easier too? (CCH vs MIL-XT mandates one or the other)

The ATACR is kicking the shit out of the industry right now and will likely hold resale long term in case you want to switch down the road, however you're paying more up front and if the MK5 7-35 is close to the MK5 5-25 its an impressive scope.

That being said your eyes may hate what other people eyes like, so you really should try to get behind these scopes and see which you prefer as a package (glass, feel, function, reticle, etc.)

If youre picking one today, I'ld go Leupold, save some $ up front shoot the heck out of it learn if you need something else or not, then if needs change switch optics.

You got the general idea...I'm starting out with a 6.5 Creedmoor (Ruger PR), but I want an optic that will make the switch when I get good enough to move up to .375CT or .416B. Due to wife-imposed limitations, I need to keep it to just one rifle, so I want to get equipment and scope that will make the jump. I don't want to swap out the scope when I jump up to the ELR/ULR setup.

 

[TangoSierra916]

You got the general idea...I'm starting out with a 6.5 Creedmoor (Ruger PR), but I want an optic that will make the switch when I get good enough to move up to .375CT or .416B. Due to wife-imposed limitations, I need to keep it to just one rifle, so I want to get equipment and scope that will make the jump. I don't want to swap out the scope when I jump up to the ELR/ULR setup.

What do you shoot with now, scope wise?

 

[joelinux]

What do you shoot with now, scope wise?

H&K .45 USP with a Mk1 eyeball.

I'll be starting with an RPR chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[AMP!]

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/nib-leupold-mk5-7-35-w-h59.6940629/

Just popped up for sale.

 

[Duffman1975]

Buy the Leupold Mark 5HD over the ATACR. Take the 1k you will save by not buying the ATACR and spend that on training/ammo.

 

[joelinux]

Buy the Leupold Mark 5HD over the ATACR. Take the 1k you will save by not buying the ATACR and spend that on training/ammo.

Eh...I have the means to get the ATACR, as well as training/ammo.

I'd rather have the better tool, if ATACR is indeed a better scope.

 

[Poorboyr]

My suggestion to you is try to look through a Nightforce ATACR scope. To me, the eye box is very finicky. Some people like it, some don’t.

 

[joelinux]

My suggestion to you is try to look through a Nightforce ATACR scope. To me, the eye box is very finicky. Some people like it, some don’t.

Oh for sure! I'm more or less concerned if there was a hard reason why one was demonstratively better than the other.

Like, when I was shopping for my pistol, I was tempted to get a glock until someone pointed out a number of features that made it considerably less attractive for me.

 

[koshkin]

First of all, if you are a noob, get a mrad scope. Unless you are for some reason attached to MOA, stick with mrad. SInce most people use mrad and call out wind in mrad, that will make things easier for you.

With Mark 5 7-35x being fairly new, you are not going to see a whole lot of feedback on that. The 5-25x is a good scope though, so I expect the 7-35 to be good too.

I am not hugely excited about any of the reticles in either one of these scopes, but if I had to pick one out, it would be Mil-C.

ILya

 

[Poorboyr]

Oh for sure! I'm more or less concerned if there was a hard reason why one was demonstratively better than the other.

Like, when I was shopping for my pistol, I was tempted to get a glock until someone pointed out a number of features that made it considerably less attractive for me.

It's always an interesting post when someone asks for opinions. Fan boys always come out and will defend whatever for whatever reason.

My opinion from using and owning the Nightforce 7-35 and Mark 5 5-25 (I have not used the 7-35); I would choose the Leupold. My eyes do not like Nightforce scopes. I have used the SHV, NSX, ATACR, and Beast, so I have some experience behind them. I like the scopes just not the glass. There have been many posts discussing Nightforce glass as well as others. I would try to do a search on them and see what you can find.

Good Luck with your purchase

 

[joelinux]

It's always an interesting post when someone asks for opinions. Fan boys always come out and will defend whatever for whatever reason.

My opinion from using and owning the Nightforce 7-35 and Mark 5 5-25 (I have not used the 7-35); I would choose the Leupold. My eyes do not like Nightforce scopes. I have used the SHV, NSX, ATACR, and Beast, so I have some experience behind them. I like the scopes just not the glass. There have been many posts discussing Nightforce glass as well as others. I would try to do a search on them and see what you can find.

Good Luck with your purchase

Fair point. Anyone in socal that wants to let me look at their scope?

 

[phlegethon]

I haven’t used either, but one thing to keep in mind is that many have reported the NF 7-35 has more elevation adjustment than specified. A lot of people are getting 120 MOA of total vertical elevation. This will help you get farther later on, especially with a 45 or 60 MOA base.

 

[koshkin]

I think I mentioned it in the other thread he started, but for ELR, get a TARAC or an elevated and heavily inclined base. That really helps with elevation adjustment.

ILya

 

[Cold_Bore_88]

Pick it based on which reticle you like better. I am partial to the MIL-XT by NF.

 

[TangoSierra916]

Pick it based on which reticle you like better. I am partial to the MIL-XT by NF.

I know where to find one. ?