Mammoth Sniper Challenge 2020 Discussion

[PrepareSmarter]

Hi everyone,

After hijacking NY700's thread on pack selection for Mammoth 2020, I thought a general discussion thread would be nice.

Mammoth 2020 will be my first long range competition. I'd love to hear from previous competitors about their experiences, load-out choices, and training regiments.

 

[ReaperMedic]

I am interested as well from someone who has been to last year's event. I read on ITS Tactical about the "old" Mammoth, before it moved venues and changed ownership, I'm interested in solid reviews of the 2019 version.

 

[ForgeValley]

I'll tag in. I am planning on 2020 as well. Feel like my equipment choices are solid, I am focusing on fitness and shooting skills at the moment. 45 or more pounds at 16 minute miles is no joke. If anyone is looking for a team member, let me know. For some reason I can't convince any of my buddies to play. I would have thought the move down to semi-tropical Fort Gordon (relatively) would have made it more appealing!

 

[teddy12b]

I'm training for the 2020 mammoth too. For me, I'm an office guy with little munchkins. When the munchkins go to bed, I grab my ruck a couple nights a week and go hit the road. My loadout for the trip is basically finalized, but the fitness and actual pack is not. I got out of the crossfit gym last year, before a backpacking trip to Alaska where I wanted to make sure I didn't hurt/tweak my back before that and I told myself that I'd do workouts at home on my own. I haven't, and now all I do are my occational night rucks because half the time the roads are covered in ice. Once the crossfit open is over, I'm going to get back into the gym. That and rucking at night are my prep plans for the 2020.

 

[PrepareSmarter]

I'm interested in learning about the shooting stages and what people are doing to train for the marksmanship challenges. I have a SOLID ruck training plan, so I plan on NOT getting dropped for time. Getting points (hits) is my main concern now.

 

[mi223]

Curious what you guys have in your pack. What sleep systems/shelter? How much water and food? I would like to compete but have a lot of gear to obtain and work to do.

 

[ForgeValley]

You guys may have read this, but if not it is a good read:

Tips and Tricks for the Mammoth Sniper Challenge from a Range Officer and Competitor’s Perspective

This year’s perspective on the Mammoth Sniper Challenge will be partly from “the other side.” After 6 years of competing... View Article

www.itstactical.com

This AAR has some of the 2018 stages drawn out, good reading as well.

Shooting Team | BEST Steel Targets

www.beststeeltargets.com

Its the one at the very bottom of the AAR's, AAR_011218_Mammoth_Sniper_Challenge_Andrews_Whitehead

 

[ForgeValley]

Curious what you guys have in your pack. What sleep systems/shelter? How much water and food? I would like to compete but have a lot of gear to obtain and work to do.

Right now my sleep\shelter system consists of a lightweight mat, a bivy, and a 30 degree bag that all come in at 4.5 pounds. I am debating adding a lightweight tarp to the mix that will bring it up to ~ 6 pounds, and most likely that will be my setup.

Food is Mtn House, and water, as little as possible to make it to the next stage.

 

[PrepareSmarter]

I heard they will be catering dinners next year so you have an option to not carry so much food. I have mixed feelings on that if it's true.

 

[ForgeValley]

I heard they will be catering dinners next year so you have an option to not carry so much food. I have mixed feelings on that if it's true.

I'd rather have an extra minute per mile and carry my own food.

 

[Ted Bell]

I haven't been able to find it online through several searches. Have they announced the 2020 dates yet?

Thanks,
Ted

 

[Dschapp44]

Right now my sleep\shelter system consists of a lightweight mat, a bivy, and a 30 degree bag that all come in at 4.5 pounds. I am debating adding a lightweight tarp to the mix that will bring it up to ~ 6 pounds, and most likely that will be my setup.

Food is Mtn House, and water, as little as possible to make it to the next stage.

From why I’ve found if you want a real sleeping bag it’s tough to get under 4 pound. Pads are 10-14 ounces and one man tents can be as low as the teens but bags without being crazy expensive are all over 2 pounds.

 

[Dschapp44]

From why I’ve found if you want a real sleeping bag it’s tough to get under 4 pound. Pads are 10-14 ounces and one man tents can be as low as the teens but bags without being crazy expensive are all over 2 pounds.

I take that back. I just found this at way less.

Mountain Hardwear Men's Sleeping Bags | REI Co-op

Shop for Mountain Hardwear Men's Sleeping Bags at REI - FREE SHIPPING With $50 minimum purchase. Curbside Pickup Available NOW! 100% Satisfaction Guarantee

www.rei.com

 

[Dschapp44]

A sea to summit spark ultralight is 17 ounces and the sleeping pad I’m going to go with is 12 ounces. That is a considerable amount of weight

 

[PrepareSmarter]

From why I’ve found if you want a real sleeping bag it’s tough to get under 4 pound. Pads are 10-14 ounces and one man tents can be as low as the teens but bags without being crazy expensive are all over 2 pounds.

The Snugpak Softie Elite 3 is a nice budget (~$85) synthetic sleeping bag. 3.5lbs and it's good down to "23f comfort / 14f survival."
For ~$200 you can get a sub 2lb (down) bag in the same temperature range. If you spend more, you can get down to the 1.5lb mark.

Another option is a quilt. The insulation underneath you loses almost all insulative properties when you lay on it anyway.
Enlightened Equipment makes some crazy light quilts in down and synthetic varieties.

 

[PrepareSmarter]

I haven't been able to find it online through several searches. Have they announced the 2020 dates yet?

Thanks,
Ted

No, and their website is AWEFUL!

 

[Dschapp44]

The Snugpak Softie Elite 3 is a nice budget (~$85) synthetic sleeping bag. 3.5lbs and it's good down to "23f comfort / 14f survival."
For ~$200 you can get a sub 2lb (down) bag in the same temperature range. If you spend more, you can get down to the 1.5lb mark.

Another option is a quilt. The insulation underneath you loses almost all insulative properties when you lay on it anyway.
Enlightened Equipment makes some crazy light quilts in down and synthetic varieties.

I’ve got a kifaru woobie and I love it but it’s still 21 ounces and I do like the feel of a full bag. I just found the new sea to summit ultra light. The 8 degree bag comes in at 18 ounces. They are pricey but they pack down to a nalgiene bottle and I’ll have it for a long time.

I have my stuff broken out by ounce and I’m at 50 pounds with a limited amount of clothing. 4 pounds of food, 11 pound rifle, 8 pounds of ammo, bag is a kifaru at 5.5 pounds.

 

[PrepareSmarter]

CW13 update to my training plan.

 

[Dschapp44]

CW13 update to my training plan.

Why do the miles in the right column change so much or is that for multiple rucks? Can you walk that pace or do you have to jog some?

 

[teddy12b]

Maybe this will help others deciding what to pack:

Here's our plan for shelter/sleep assuming worst case scenario of rain & snow. I have a hammock gear 12' journey tarp with doors on it that'll get strung up off trekking poles and staked out. Inside that tarp, there's room for two grown men and all their gear and some extra space. Once inside, I'll be in or on a 2go systems trifecta bivy blanket with a small thermarest pro lite air mattress and in side my warm and cozy Nemo Disco 15 long. What I like about the Nemo Disco 15 is that I'm not the typical 5'8" dimension guy. I have a bigger frame and it's wide enough for my shoulders, and long enough as well. It's not the most compact sleeping bag, but it's close, it's not the most expensive sleeping bag at all, and I've got more than enough nights in it to feel very comfortable getting out there in January in it.

As mentioned earlier, I'd really much rather trade ruck time carrying my own meals for a catered dinner. Seems like it'd ruin the whole spirit of the event to not carry all your own stuff.

 

[Dschapp44]

Maybe this will help others deciding what to pack:

Here's our plan for shelter/sleep assuming worst case scenario of rain & snow. I have a hammock gear 12' journey tarp with doors on it that'll get strung up off trekking poles and staked out. Inside that tarp, there's room for two grown men and all their gear and some extra space. Once inside, I'll be in or on a 2go systems trifecta bivy blanket with a small thermarest pro lite air mattress and in side my warm and cozy Nemo Disco 15 long. What I like about the Nemo Disco 15 is that I'm not the typical 5'8" dimension guy. I have a bigger frame and it's wide enough for my shoulders, and long enough as well. It's not the most compact sleeping bag, but it's close, it's not the most expensive sleeping bag at all, and I've got more than enough nights in it to feel very comfortable getting out there in January in it.

As mentioned earlier, I'd really much rather trade ruck time carrying my own meals for a catered dinner. Seems like it'd ruin the whole spirit of the event to not carry all your own stuff.

I just looked up the Nemo and that definitly a nice bag. I’ve been looking at the sea to summit spark 18* bag and they seem to be similarly priced and the kuiu one person tent caught my eye as well. The big selling point was the use of treaking poles similar to the option you mentioned

 

[Dschapp44]

Why do the miles in the right column change so much or is that for multiple rucks? Can you walk that pace or do you have to jog some?

This is what I’ve done the past two days. I’m quite happy for the mount of sitting at a desk I do

 

[PrepareSmarter]

This is what I’ve done the past two days. I’m quite happy for the mount of sitting at a desk I do

Very nice. I did two columns because my plan is to do two rucks a week; one short and fast and one long and at a 15-16min pace.
My sheet automatically calculates weekly stats and lists the total stats at the bottom.

 

[DangerDario]

Here is my camp set-up for the last three Mammoths:

Seek Outside Cimarron Tipi Tent (I used the titanium stove for the event in Kentucky)
Helinox Lite Cot
Sea to Summit inflatible matt
Enlighteneded Equipment quilt.

You can get away with less. But to me, the extra rest and recovery you get from a comfortable set-up and a good nights sleep is worth the extra weight.

In Kentucky, the stove was a freakin life saver.

 

[ForgeValley]

Here is my camp set-up for the last three Mammoths:

Seek Outside Cimarron Tipi Tent (I used the titanium stove for the event in Kentucky)
Helinox Lite Cot
Sea to Summit inflatible matt
Enlighteneded Equipment quilt.

You can get away with less. But to me, the extra rest and recovery you get from a comfortable set-up and a good nights sleep is worth the extra weight.

In Kentucky, the stove was a freakin life saver.

That's all kind of hardcore, carrying a tent, a cot, AND a stove. What was your carried weight?

 

[DangerDario]

That's all kind of hardcore, carrying a tent, a cot, AND a stove. What was your carried weight?

I was at 45lbs without rifle. Not the lightest set-up, that's for sure.

 

[PrepareSmarter]

I was at 45lbs without rifle. Not the lightest set-up, that's for sure.

That's actually not too bad.

 

[Dschapp44]

That's actually not too bad.

I got mine down to 38 without the rifle. But my pack is pretty limited on the clothes.

 

[PrepareSmarter]

I got mine down to 38 without the rifle. But my pack is pretty limited on the clothes.

Do you have your loadout written down. I'd love to be at 40 before rifle.

 

[Dschapp44]

Do you have your loadout written down. I'd love to be at 40 before rifle.

This is what currently have laid out. I’m struggling not to add another pair of pants in but I have too much weight in clothes as it is and I’m not willing to sacrifice on the rain gear. Also love my kifaru parka and if there’s cold weather like the last one it’s well worth the extra weight in my book.

 

[DangerDario]

I have never needed a second set of pants
I would consider getting rid of the ear pro and using lightweight plugs
I would also consider getting rid of the shooting pillows and use one of your gear stuff bags.

 

[DangerDario]

Also, I didn't use walking poles at Ft. Gordon. I don't think they are needed.

 

[DangerDario]

One last thing, I used all my pistol ammo but not all my rifle ammo. It is a risk, but, you may be able to get away with less rifle ammo.

 

[Dschapp44]

I have never needed a second set of pants
I would consider getting rid of the ear pro and using lightweight plugs
I would also consider getting rid of the shooting pillows and use one of your gear stuff bags.

Thanks for the insite. I threw the walking poles on the list just in case but definitely still up in the air (one of the reasons i added them is for some tents you can use them instead of bringing tent poles which would be nice), as is the final round count for ammo but made some guesses based on what i heard from this year for the sake of getting an idea. I keep going back and forth on the shooting pillows and ended up getting the modular pump pillow so I'll use it to hold my sleeping bag during the day. I may end up ditching it but that was my thought at this point.

 

[Dschapp44]

One last thing, I used all my pistol ammo but not all my rifle ammo. It is a risk, but, you may be able to get away with less rifle ammo.

What was the final round count for you last year?

 

[DangerDario]

My rifle count was 100.

 

[DangerDario]

Pistol was 140

Sorry about the multiple posts.

 

[slowlearner]

2018 my pack with rifle and all goodies was 55lbs.

An AI with a can comes in around 19.5lbs.

Sleeping set up:
Lafuma 32 degree bag, under 2lbs
Inflatable Thermarest pad
Big Agnes UL2 tent, with aluminum MSR stakes

Food:
Jetboil with titanium 0.8l cup, one fuel can
Mountain house style breakfast and dinner
Lunches were based around peanut butter and a few tortillas
Three bags of candy for morale
1L of water most of the time.
1x spork

Clothing:
Lightweight hard shell top and bottom (mammut and mountain hardwear)
Arcteryx Atom LT to feel happy
Synthetic shirt
Hiking pants
Three pairs of socks total (one on feet, one drying, one sleeping. Rotate as needed)
My well loved set of Nike boots from work. They were well broken in, but mammoth killed them with all the final mud. Well worth it.

I have warm, light stuff from ice climbing, and I was glad I knew my layering system for me.

Gun stuff:
AI AT in 308
Silencerco Saker
S&B 5-25 (thanks Ryan for letting me borrow it)
120 rounds of 118LR (shot 110)
No pistol in 2018
One Armageddon gear python bag
Atlas bipod

The level of communication was great with both of us running suppressors. The weight was worth it to me. Calm communication helps reduce perceived stress versus yelling distances to one another and sounding stressed.

We focused on shooting the 308 a good bit, as my dope was fairly solid, and honestly, the targets were easier to find sometimes. Furthest target as the secondary shooter was 600 yds, so more than doable with a lighter 556 gas gun (highly recommended compared to my heavy beast 308).

Partner gear:
Tripod
Spotting scope

 

[PrepareSmarter]

Lunches were based around peanut butter and a few tortillas

Hardcore. haha. Great loadout. Thanks for posting.

 

[slowlearner]

Hardcore. haha. Great loadout. Thanks for posting.

You can add fluffy clothes to get away with a lighter sleeping bag. Pick calorie dense food over feeling full. Lots of ways to suffer to save weight.

The suffering is temporary, and is all mental right?

 

[PrepareSmarter]

You can add fluffy clothes to get away with a lighter sleeping bag. Pick calorie dense food over feeling full. Lots of ways to suffer to save weight.

The suffering is temporary, and is all mental right?

I was planning to carry an 850 fill down hooded jacket to fill my "warm and fluffly" needs.
What pack did you go with and how did it work out?

 

[slowlearner]

I was planning to carry an 850 fill down hooded jacket to fill my "warm and fluffly" needs.
What pack did you go with and how did it work out?

I used an Osprey 70 liter pack. I can fit the sleeping bag and clothes in the bottom, leaving the main compartment for food and ammo. Strapped the rifle sideways across the top.

Kept ammo in taped zip lock bags to be smaller and rattle less.

Could have gotten away with a much smaller pack for sure.

 

[regnar375]

I used an Osprey 70 liter pack. I can fit the sleeping bag and clothes in the bottom, leaving the main compartment for food and ammo. Strapped the rifle sideways across the top.

Kept ammo in taped zip lock bags to be smaller and rattle less.

Could have gotten away with a much smaller pack for sure.

Just bought this pack. way bigger than I need but a lot easier to pack.

 

[Ferson]

I hunt in Northeastern Wyoming with winters here getting as cold -40 sometimes and Irish Setter Men's 860 Elk Tracker Waterproof boots (Link) are great for me without a doubt. In fact, it’s literally the best hunting/hiking winter footwear I own. I do a lot of hunting in icy temperatures and never worry about getting cold. At a glance, these boots are well-designed and pleasantly heavy. They're well-fitting, substantial, and fit cozily with no excessive weight on my very thick feet. They appear to be warm and hold their own on muddy trails despite the fact that I haven't put them underwater yet.

These boots handle most common environments. They don't cause problems when firmly bound, enabling my toes to move normally. They surely don't have to be completely constrained to be used, however, and I like to use them half-open too.

 

[regnar375]

Good boots but a bit heavy?

 

[muddawg]

Was wondering if a sling is necessary on either the primary or secondary rifle, or both? I notice one of the posters was carrying one, the other didn’t mention it.

 

[PrepareSmarter]

Was wondering if a sling is necessary on either the primary or secondary rifle, or both? I notice one of the posters was carrying one, the other didn’t mention it.

At one point they were saying not to use one. I think we won't know until more details come out for the 2020 event.

 

[FishDr]

At a similar field match, I used one to carry the rifle while transitioning between positions or while shooting pistol. I didn't use it for support for shooting per se.

 

[slowlearner]

Was wondering if a sling is necessary on either the primary or secondary rifle, or both? I notice one of the posters was carrying one, the other didn’t mention it.

I would say it depends on how you plan on carrying the rifle. If your pack carries the rifle well, no need. If you are slinging it for rucks, then absolutely. I had no need for mine since my rifle was so heavy/long it went on the pack for each movement.

 

[Andy@vprc]

I'll see you guys there. For anyone new the the match, pack light gear and accurate rifles. I made a video on our loadout. It's on pr101. Feel free to hit me up if anyone needs any help.