^^^ This guy knows his stuff for sure. I can personally attest to that.
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Mammoth Sniper Challenge 2020 Discussion
- Thread starter PrepareSmarter
- Start date
Hey Everyone, I put together a detailed packing list for Mammoth as a provisional pass on Google sheets.
I was wondering if people could take a look and give me opinions. Feel free to beat me up on it, I'd rather have my balls busted than have my back busted. I have a lot of excel logic built into it although it is not complete. My most important goal is to cut weight.
If for some reason someone wants this formatting to make their own sheet I'll gladly share it, feel free to PM me for that.
docs.google.com
Any help or thoughts would be appreciate.
Stats:
160lbs
5'7"
Secondary Shooter, 223 Bolt Gun
I was wondering if people could take a look and give me opinions. Feel free to beat me up on it, I'd rather have my balls busted than have my back busted. I have a lot of excel logic built into it although it is not complete. My most important goal is to cut weight.
If for some reason someone wants this formatting to make their own sheet I'll gladly share it, feel free to PM me for that.
Mammoth 2021 Loadout/Pacing
Any help or thoughts would be appreciate.
Stats:
160lbs
5'7"
Secondary Shooter, 223 Bolt Gun
It isn't terrible, It;s actually a really good start. But there are more than a few things I would drop.
Is the rain shell for your ruck? If so keep it- if it is another rain jacket drop it.
I would likely drop the base layers. It hasn't been cold enough the past two years in GA to justify them, especially if you're rucking around.
What is the run/gun bag?
I wouldn't bring knee pads unless you really really like them
I also would drop the camelbak and just bring a large nalgene- there is water everywhere.
I would also say to drop the hand/foot warmers
This is a three day/two night event, I would just change the batteries in your headlamp before you leave and not bring extras.
I also haven't had a use for gloves the past three years.
I would leave the deodorant in the car
I would also bring three mags for pistol and rifle. If the pistol goes down the easiest and fastest way to get it running again is to drop the mag and stick a fresh one in. Then I also like to carry an extra in case i'm having a really bad day. For the whole match I never shot more than one magazine of pistol in a stage, but I like to be prepared because I have had shit happen before.
Have you thought about what you're going to keep the ammo in? I would advise one of those small sil-nylon dry bags from walmart that come in a three pack.
I would also say to just bring mountain house/backpackers pantry/something freeze dried in a bag for food- you then don't need a bowl or plate, and it tastes pretty good
I would also add 2 more pairs of socks to the list
I would only pack one shirt, wear the other.
That's my .02. Ive been backpacking forever, and have shot this 3x. The first year I needed way more due to the cold. The past two it has been really mild for most of the match.
Is the rain shell for your ruck? If so keep it- if it is another rain jacket drop it.
I would likely drop the base layers. It hasn't been cold enough the past two years in GA to justify them, especially if you're rucking around.
What is the run/gun bag?
I wouldn't bring knee pads unless you really really like them
I also would drop the camelbak and just bring a large nalgene- there is water everywhere.
I would also say to drop the hand/foot warmers
This is a three day/two night event, I would just change the batteries in your headlamp before you leave and not bring extras.
I also haven't had a use for gloves the past three years.
I would leave the deodorant in the car
I would also bring three mags for pistol and rifle. If the pistol goes down the easiest and fastest way to get it running again is to drop the mag and stick a fresh one in. Then I also like to carry an extra in case i'm having a really bad day. For the whole match I never shot more than one magazine of pistol in a stage, but I like to be prepared because I have had shit happen before.
Have you thought about what you're going to keep the ammo in? I would advise one of those small sil-nylon dry bags from walmart that come in a three pack.
I would also say to just bring mountain house/backpackers pantry/something freeze dried in a bag for food- you then don't need a bowl or plate, and it tastes pretty good
I would also add 2 more pairs of socks to the list
I would only pack one shirt, wear the other.
That's my .02. Ive been backpacking forever, and have shot this 3x. The first year I needed way more due to the cold. The past two it has been really mild for most of the match.
Appreciate the input, if you noticed, the check marks turn off the weight for that item. I planned on messing with things and when you toggle the fields on and off it gives you live updates. I will certainly take all of this to heart and the link will remain as I modify and pair down some. If anyone wants to chat in depth and it does not seem relevant to the feed feel free to PM me.
I have not even bought the barrel but my previous .223 bolt gun (I sold a few years ago) I got a 77gr VLD to go a little over 3100 fps (hot load) but it was easily going 2950 so my plan was to get the 80gr ELD-M around 2800-2830 in a 24 inch barrel which I figure is a reasonable compromise for length, weight and performance.
Here is my ruck training plan so far. You can see by the elevation gain that my area is pretty hilly.
Any feedback? I reached 45# faster than expected, so now I need to change up the progression.
Any feedback? I reached 45# faster than expected, so now I need to change up the progression.
After you add the tarp, straps, under quilt, and quilt/bag it's not that much different. To me, hammocks are for the summer.
For those who have done Mammoth before, could you share what a typical day is like with regards to the hiking? In other words from when you start in the morning how far do you hike in each leg, how much time do you spend while at a stage, and how many legs of hiking do you do in a day? I wanted to spend a Saturday simulating what a full day at Mammoth would be like physically gauge my training so far.
Thanks,
Ted
Thanks,
Ted
Up before the sun. Walk 1-5 miles at designated pace. 5-30 minutes until stage brief the year at Arena. Get your stage brief. Each team rotated through on average 3 minutes per. I think we had 8 teams in our squad. Then 5-15 minutes later walk again.
I think Friday had 4 rucks, Saturday had 5-7, Sunday was 4 or 5 (memory is a bit fuzzy). I think my mileage was templated for 13 on Saturday.
All this data is based off the 2018 year at the Area Rain fest.
I didn’t feel rushed between rucks, I had time to re-tie down everything, crush some calories, and adjust layers. Or just be stuck sitting in the rain. I’d also stretch a bit during your breaks.
Training is going well. I'm rucking at a 14.45 pace with 50 pounds. that's all walking, no running. I do two or three a week for 2-3 miles. I'm doing 1 or 2 5k's a week on the treadmill. two months ago I was at 45min plus. Yesterday I did 35:40. cant run the whole thing yet but working towards it. my goal is a 30 min 5k.
I have been rucking or running 3 to 6 days a week depending on my schedule. soon I will start incorporating some serious hill workouts and trail running (I havent run since I got out in 89!).
I'm pretty excited at my progress and even more at my recovery time, which is getting really good.
I have been rucking or running 3 to 6 days a week depending on my schedule. soon I will start incorporating some serious hill workouts and trail running (I havent run since I got out in 89!).
I'm pretty excited at my progress and even more at my recovery time, which is getting really good.
Sounds like you are well on your way of the sufferfest of fun. Is that 14.45 on flat or rolling hills? I suck at going up hill, while some other people seem to be powered by them.
Here's a nice perspective:
https://www.recoilweb.com/how-to-ruck-shoot-and-win-a-team-match-149733.html
https://www.recoilweb.com/how-to-ruck-shoot-and-win-a-team-match-149733.html
Very light hills. I've got a lot of miles under a ruck with some awfully heavy weight so this is more about getting my legs back. I'm pretty confident I can get to a 13:30 with weight in the hills.
Gotta wiggle the hips going up the hills and take quick short steps while leaning into the weight.
Gotta wiggle the hips going up the hills and take quick short steps while leaning into the weight.
It will be announced in late June per their IG account.
What do you guys do to keep track of your pace and distance on the rucks? I don't think my Garmin watch's battery (internal rechargeable) will last all the way through 3 days. The longest I've seen it last is about 7 hours on a 100 mile bicycle ride.
Garmin will replace and install a new battery. A local shop could possibly disassemble and do it - not sure I would trust that. You could get a battery bank to hold a charge and charge up all your USB devices. Mine is heavy, so will find a lighter one for next time. A third option is solar - but not recommended.
Look at the Garmin Foretrex line. The 601 reportedly lasts 48hrs on 2AA batteries.
Thanks PrepareSmarter. I did check it out and it looks like it might be the ticket. Price isn't terrible either.
Any thoughts on lightweight holsters, mag holders and such for easy packing deploying? Just trying to optimize. Regards
Man, I really am looking forward to 2020!
I carried 65 rounds of pistol and 130 of rifle. I ran a Savage 10 in 308 as primary shooter (my partner was slotted as primary, backed out and ran a gas gun 2 weeks before the match). The biggest advice I can give is, if you are unsure about a piece of gear, leave it at home. I carried so much stuff I didn't need. I will be shooting secondary this year, running a 14.5 gas gun in .223 with a 1-6. Most every stage you run, you will be required to carry your gear with you. The round count they provide is pretty accurate, you wont have many, if any, shoot til you hit targets. I ended with 3 pistol rounds and 56 rifle rounds left over.
I know I'm scatter brained and all over the place, but I would love to share any knowledge I have. I'll attach a picture or two of the mass amount of junk I dragged with me.
I carried 65 rounds of pistol and 130 of rifle. I ran a Savage 10 in 308 as primary shooter (my partner was slotted as primary, backed out and ran a gas gun 2 weeks before the match). The biggest advice I can give is, if you are unsure about a piece of gear, leave it at home. I carried so much stuff I didn't need. I will be shooting secondary this year, running a 14.5 gas gun in .223 with a 1-6. Most every stage you run, you will be required to carry your gear with you. The round count they provide is pretty accurate, you wont have many, if any, shoot til you hit targets. I ended with 3 pistol rounds and 56 rifle rounds left over.
I know I'm scatter brained and all over the place, but I would love to share any knowledge I have. I'll attach a picture or two of the mass amount of junk I dragged with me.
Attachments
Sorry for the remedial question but I can’t find an answer to this on their Facebook or site.
Is there an individual competition or is it team based only?
Is there an individual competition or is it team based only?
Does this match follow the rules of PRS divisions ie Production, Tactical, Open? If not can the secondary shooter carry a Semi while the primary carries a bolt action? I ask because my partner wants to use his Dept issue OBR while I'm planning on using my MPA.
Thanks
Thanks
It's a team match.
Run what you brung. Unless something changes, the secondary shooter has to run 223 or 308. Many teams run work gas guns.
We did and saved the weight by not bringing a spotter. Also not all stages are setup to where you could use a spotter due to time or stage progression.
Good info. How valuable was having a tripod? Im interested in cutting weight and carrying trecking poles.
There were 2 stages were I remember tripods being very beneficial, I brought trecking poles and ended up not using them at all. The guys that did bring a tripod said it was worth it, I plan on running one in 2020.
It was worth it for a couple stages. Given the unknown factor we will always have one. We brought trekking poles too which help me with mud and for pacing. They weren't as necessary since we ended up being near the road most of the time, but if we had to run the tank trails it might have been rough to keep pace with the big packs.
When you are referring to the usage of tripods which of the following do you mean?
1) As a main shooting platform (ball head/leveling base mount to rifle)
2) Means of rear support for the rifle
3) As support for binos/spotting scope
The reason I ask is I am looking at getting an ultra light tripod for use with my LRF Binos as I do not want to bring my full RRS rig.
Any thoughts are appreciated.
1) As a main shooting platform (ball head/leveling base mount to rifle)
2) Means of rear support for the rifle
3) As support for binos/spotting scope
The reason I ask is I am looking at getting an ultra light tripod for use with my LRF Binos as I do not want to bring my full RRS rig.
Any thoughts are appreciated.
We used the tripod for 1 and 2 but not 3. Other teams used one or none in varying capacities.
I'm wondering if the spotter will always be able to brace similar to the sniper. If not, I don't know how they will be able to give corrections without a tripod or stabilized binos.
Reading this last page has really got me questioning what I'd been planning for my partner and I. He's a 53yr old fitness stud who normally runs an AK. The precision stuff is more my realm and I'll have the slower pace between us. We'd planned on me being primary with a 6.5creedmoor and him being secondary with a 308 bolt gun, but if the secondary targets are going to be 700 yards and in then I'm happy to switch him out to a precision AR I've got.
For training I do rucks when I get a chance and yesterday for example rucked two miles to a reservoir, inflated a pack raft and paddled a couple miles back home. It wasn't full loadout weight or anything, but it was a couple of miles. The best thing I've done so far is lost the weight of the rifle from my body. I've been really focusing on loosing weight in the last month and I'm down nearly 20 pounds just from that. I've been using the "Samsung Health" app and it has a walking/hiking part of it that will record your pace. When I throw on my pack and go I just hit start when I start and stop when I stop and it calculates the pace. Typically I'm in the 15:30 per mile range, but my pace doesn't seem to change much with the amount of weight in my pack. I'm more of a mule, and my buddy is more of a rabbit.
When I started all of this, I hoped my total loadout weight including everything would be 40# or less. Having packed up a very minimal loadout that I'm confident in for a january event I'm at 35# without the rifle. One of the ways I'm planning to keep the weight down is to go with 1 liter of water instead of a 3L water bladder and two 1 liter bottles. I don't think of this as a wilderness expedition and if water is plentiful and ready at each stage I'll just plan on topping off at each one. I've done 5 liter water loadouts in wilderness areas before when you don't know when the next time you'll see water is and that's a lot of weight I'd like to cut out if possible.
The round count and # of mags is still up in the air for me. I love the idea of cutting weight, but I don't want to be short on ammo either. For my pistol it'll be a glock 17 with 3 loaded mags. I think that should be fine. For rifle, my plan as of now is 120rds with 3 10rd mags and maybe one 5rd mag. All the mags and ammo may change based on the 2020 event.
I'm attending a Guardian Match in Michigan next month because it sounds like a good way to get tuned up on competition style of shooting before going into an event like the Mammoth. I'm hoping to work out any rookie mistakes there and then not make a complete fool of myself at Mammoth. We'll see how that plan plays out....
For training I do rucks when I get a chance and yesterday for example rucked two miles to a reservoir, inflated a pack raft and paddled a couple miles back home. It wasn't full loadout weight or anything, but it was a couple of miles. The best thing I've done so far is lost the weight of the rifle from my body. I've been really focusing on loosing weight in the last month and I'm down nearly 20 pounds just from that. I've been using the "Samsung Health" app and it has a walking/hiking part of it that will record your pace. When I throw on my pack and go I just hit start when I start and stop when I stop and it calculates the pace. Typically I'm in the 15:30 per mile range, but my pace doesn't seem to change much with the amount of weight in my pack. I'm more of a mule, and my buddy is more of a rabbit.
When I started all of this, I hoped my total loadout weight including everything would be 40# or less. Having packed up a very minimal loadout that I'm confident in for a january event I'm at 35# without the rifle. One of the ways I'm planning to keep the weight down is to go with 1 liter of water instead of a 3L water bladder and two 1 liter bottles. I don't think of this as a wilderness expedition and if water is plentiful and ready at each stage I'll just plan on topping off at each one. I've done 5 liter water loadouts in wilderness areas before when you don't know when the next time you'll see water is and that's a lot of weight I'd like to cut out if possible.
The round count and # of mags is still up in the air for me. I love the idea of cutting weight, but I don't want to be short on ammo either. For my pistol it'll be a glock 17 with 3 loaded mags. I think that should be fine. For rifle, my plan as of now is 120rds with 3 10rd mags and maybe one 5rd mag. All the mags and ammo may change based on the 2020 event.
I'm attending a Guardian Match in Michigan next month because it sounds like a good way to get tuned up on competition style of shooting before going into an event like the Mammoth. I'm hoping to work out any rookie mistakes there and then not make a complete fool of myself at Mammoth. We'll see how that plan plays out....
What is everyone using for pacing, time tracking and mileage? I am looking at a bunch of runners watches from Garmin as well as the Garmin Fortrex 601. Currently all my tracking is being done via stop watch and google earth route mapping and I'd like to get more accurate data.
Viewranger is a good app for tracking mileage, pace, etc. It has a pretty good dashboard for tracking everything in real time.
Fitbit Blaze connected to phone GPS. It tracks via GPS and pace count, I have had better luck with that than just losing time in turns with phone GPS only. I also have a Garmin 401 I use for longer treks.
Last year they kept everything pretty hush until 3 months prior, I'm assuming they will do something very similar this year.
So I am looking at sleep systems.
Option #1: Floorless Shelter (Tarp Tent) ~1.5lbs including spikes
Pro: Room For Gear Inside
Con: Longer To Set Up, Not as much cover, no floor
Option #2: Waterproof Bivy Sack, ~1.1lbs
Pro: Lots of cover, easy to deploy, easy to pack.
Con: Condensation Problems, No Room For Gear
Option #3: Full Tent ~2 lbs
Pro: Complete Shelter, room for gear
Con: Weight, longer to set up
Any input would be appreciated.
Option #1: Floorless Shelter (Tarp Tent) ~1.5lbs including spikes
Pro: Room For Gear Inside
Con: Longer To Set Up, Not as much cover, no floor
Option #2: Waterproof Bivy Sack, ~1.1lbs
Pro: Lots of cover, easy to deploy, easy to pack.
Con: Condensation Problems, No Room For Gear
Option #3: Full Tent ~2 lbs
Pro: Complete Shelter, room for gear
Con: Weight, longer to set up
Any input would be appreciated.
The Garmin Foretrex 601/701 is the only thing I know of that will make it 3 days (if you turn it on watch mode when you reach each destination.) You can always carry extra batteries, but the watches with the built in batteries are harder to recharge in the field. Once you learn how it works, it's really easy to use it for a trip computer.
We're planning to carry a full 2 man A frame tent and use trecking poles. Total weight is around 3#.
We are looking at using a hammock gear journey 12' hammock tarp as a tent along with S.O.L. bivy or 2go systems trifecta all opened up as a floor. The tarp is 18.69 ounces per their website: https://www.hammockgear.com/the-journey-12-ft-ridgeline-dark-olive-green/. The trifecta is around the same weight. There's room for two people, and all the gear you can carry. We can set it up off of trekking poles that are also going to double as shooting sticks and it's a two part system that easily gets divided into two packs. It really doesn't get more simple than that. We're from Indiana, so a January winter Georgia (if that's where it is again) will be much better than we're used to.
For those of you that have ran Mammoth: Did you feel that a spotting scope with a reticle is necessary? As mentioned in a previous post, there are times when the secondary shooter will be unable to spot anyway...
Which is more useful for the challenge, a Kestrel or Garmin 701?
Which is more useful for the challenge, a Kestrel or Garmin 701?
I asked about spotters earlier. It seems like some people didn't bring them at all. I'm curious to hear from past competitors.
The Kestrel is a big help for 600+ yrds, when day to day conditions can significantly effect POI. With that said, if you don't make your ruck time the shooting is going to be just for fun. The $200 Garmin is great for tracking ruck times, but the $400 Kestel is a huge benefit to any long range shooter.
I'd pass on the spotter. If you don't have a GPS watch to track progress, the Garmin with AB is nice to combine the ballistics and GPS in one unit.
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