Manners made me sad.

orkan

orkan

Primal Rights, Inc.
Banned !
Minuteman
    • Oct 27, 2008
    4,268
    4,009
    South Dakota, USA
    www.primalrights.com
    #1
    So I called Manners an inquired about having them inlet a TA for sako quad, and was told they don't do it.

    I don't like the T4 because it has no adjustable cheek, and I dislike butt-hook stocks. The TA would be perfect.

    Now I need to order a McMillan. I'm thinking about the A3 or adjustable HTG.

    What you guys think?
     
    #4
    I wonder if enough people started asking for these types of stocks on the Sako and CZ actions if Manners would take the hint and start making them? I understand they are most likely swamped, but I've never known more business as a bad thing.

    I do believe McMillan inlets most of their stocks for the Quad.

    Ben
     
    #5
    I purchased my Quad already built. It has a McMillan stock in, what I think, a HTG style stock. I tried a stock pack before I called Manners about a T stock with adjustable cheek. They were polite but firm in saying no. I wound up with a Karsten cheek piece on mine and it has worked out very well. Plus, it was a lot less expensive than a new stock.
     
    #8
    Actually, there MAY be a way to get what you want IF you are willing to make a compromise of sorts, which is was I did AND are willing to spend the money. I wouldn't settle for the "we don't do that" excuse and was determined to get what I wanted. However, before I go any further, I am not a gunsmith and I don't claim that this can work in every situation.

    First, in the event you don't know why the offering isn't made by most stock mfg for rimfire action inletting in certain stock models is because of the thinner dimension required for a rimfire action and trigger guard.
    Having said that the alternative I'm going to reveal is fully functional and when do by a competent gunsmith is the answer to most peoples dilemma in my opinion. No, it probably isn't for everyone but I believe for most it is a viable to get the stock they want.

    When you find a smith willing to do the work you better not complain what the charge will be for custom inletting because the first thing you will have to do is get an un-inleted stock or blank. In short the key to accomplishing the end result is to move the trigger guard closer to the action since the action has to be in a fixed location so, you have to inlet it deeper into the stock. The pictures I'm posting give you an idea as to the end result and to me I think it turned out great and couldn't be happier.

    For reference I'm providing some numbers so that between you and your smith you can determine if this is viable for your style of stock. The thickest point of the stock is approximately 1.97" at the front of the trigger guard, The depth of the trigger guard recess at the rear is .2", mid span .15" and front .18". The curve of the trigger is a full .2" exposed from the bottom edge of the stock despite the recess. The action is a CZ 455 Varmint all stock except for the DIP extended mag release and the stock is a Whidden 140. Note, if you do this on a molded color stock it won't be glossy or possibly even molded color anymore in the deep recessed area's. Just something to consider!
     

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    #10
    orkan said:
    So I called Manners an inquired about having them inlet a TA for sako quad, and was told they don't do it.

    I don't like the T4 because it has no adjustable cheek, and I dislike butt-hook stocks. The TA would be perfect.

    Now I need to order a McMillan. I'm thinking about the A3 or adjustable HTG.

    What you guys think?
    Click to expand...
    We have been thinking of coming out with a dedicated version of the MCS-T or the short EH4 for a 22 action for a while, but have not decided on the action type. The problem is, If we do one for the quad, it wont fit say a CZ. We can actual do the sako quad inlet in our other stocks, but the problem is that the bottom metal wont be flush with the stock and we have to set the inlet forward and high. By doing this it moves the trigger location and kind of defeats the purpose of a 22 trainer, which is to duplicate the feel of your full size rig. If we get enough interest in a stock type and action type we will be more than happy to develop that stock. The Sako is a neat action, the only problem is you cant go to gun broker and pick one up for $380 bucks like you used to a few years ago... The office staff has a list of stocks and action inlets that are approved, something like this is really a custom inlet, if you are interested in one send me a PM with your contact info and I will go over the details. Thank you very much,
     
    Last edited:
    #12
    tmanners said:
    We have been thinking of coming out with a dedicated version of the MCS-T or the short EH4 for a 22 action for a while, but have not decided on the action type. The problem is, If we do one for the quad, it wont fit say a CZ. We can actual do the sako quad inlet in our other stocks, but the problem is that the bottom metal wont be flush with the stock and we have to set the inlet forward and high. By doing this it moves the trigger location and kind of defeats the purpose of a 22 trainer, which is to duplicate the feel of your full size rig. If we get enough interest in a stock type and action type we will be more than happy to develop that stock. The Sako is a neat action, the only problem is you cant go to gun broker and pick one up for $380 bucks like you used to a few years ago... The office staff has a list of stocks and action inlets that are approved, something like this is really a custom inlet, if you are interested in one send me a PM with your contact info and I will go over the details. Thank you very much,
    Click to expand...

    We live in such amazing times that the owners of a company can chime into an internet thread about their products. I don't own a manners stock yet but its on my list! You will convert my left-handed(Correct-handed) self from an AICS some day.
     
    #13
    CCCCanuck said:
    I find the T4 to be too much stock for a gun I want to hump around the woods sometimes too.
    Click to expand...
    That is my thought exactly. I already have a 40x that I use for a "trainer" of sorts. What I'm after is a reapeating 22lr that is hella accurate and configured with a top quality stock with an adjustable cheek. A Manners MCS-TA would fit the bill better than anything else I can think of.

    tmanners said:
    The office staff has a list of stocks and action inlets that are approved, something like this is really a custom inlet, if you are interested in one send me a PM with your contact info and I will go over the details. Thank you very much,
    Click to expand...
    PM inbound Tom. We're already a Manners dealer, and you are our number one choice in stocks... so obviously I'd very much like these sako builds to be wearing your product. If there's a way to get it done so we aren't stuck with a huge T4, then lets try to get it done. I'm sure some others on here will jump on board. My own findings mirror what plunker said, in regard to the mcmillans being a little "bendy." I know if I spent $2k+ on a 22lr and I couldn't rest the rifle on a bipod without the stock touching... I'd be looking for a fight. Rest assured, these sako's we're building for our customers will NOT do that. Having a Manners stock on there instead of a McMillan would certainly tickle my fancy.
     
    #15
    My two cents. All my center fires are built around Manners stocks (mostly T5As and one T4A). I got in on Euro-Optics Sako Quad build and have mine in a McMillan A5. I'd love to put this in a Manners stock! So Tom, if you're still listening you'd have my vote and my money
     
    #17
    peaceatwar said:
    We live in such amazing times that the owners of a company can chime into an internet thread about their products. I don't own a manners stock yet but its on my list! You will convert my left-handed(Correct-handed) self from an AICS some day.
    Click to expand...

    If you ever get the chance to visit MCS I highly recommend it. I went there earlier this year to pick up some stocks and was given the red carpet treatment. They run a first class operation and while you are there you can walk down the street and visit both GAP and Badger.
     
    #18
    BenY 2013 said:
    If it is possible to get this going for CZ actions(especially the 455), count me in as well! I honestly think something like this would do quite well!

    Ben
    Click to expand...

    They already do inlet for the CZ455

    CZ 455 Varmint Precision Trainer | CZ-USA

    Although they may not be able to sell them to the public due to agreements with CZ.

    ____________

    Tom, I'll send you a PM about this. I can think of several guys that would LOVE to have their Anschutz 64's sitting in a Manner's T2 or T4.
     
    #19
    Speeddog said:
    My two cents. All my center fires are built around Manners stocks (mostly T5As and one T4A). I got in on Euro-Optics Sako Quad build and have mine in a McMillan A5. I'd love to put this in a Manners stock! So Tom, if you're still listening you'd have my vote and my money
    Click to expand...

    They already inlet the t4 for the quad. I have one and love it! Tom is top notch in my book too! I bought the stock from a guy off here in tx and when I put my action in it the inlet was a little too deep. I wrote about it on here and Tom saw it. He got in contact with me and offered to fix it even though I never bought it from him.
     
    #21
    He's talking about OTHER THAN the T4 as is the OP.

    Geno C. said:
    They already inlet the t4 for the quad. I have one and love it! Tom is top notch in my book too! I bought the stock from a guy off here in tx and when I put my action in it the inlet was a little too deep. I wrote about it on here and Tom saw it. He got in contact with me and offered to fix it even though I never bought it from him.
    Click to expand...
     
    #22
    bunsen27 said:
    They already do inlet for the CZ455

    CZ 455 Varmint Precision Trainer | CZ-USA

    Although they may not be able to sell them to the public due to agreements with CZ.

    ____________

    Tom, I'll send you a PM about this. I can think of several guys that would LOVE to have their Anschutz 64's sitting in a Manner's T2 or T4.
    Click to expand...


    Yes I know they do the T4 for the 455 actions, I have my gun sitting in one right now. But I would much prefer it be sitting in something like the Manners T stock. I like it but I would like to change it, and from what I read here about the McMillan(which shocked me) I might not want to go their route. If I can't get the T stock I may do what gafferq2xl here did and send the barreled action off to Whidden, I love the looks of his rifle and can't wait to see it finished!

    Ben
     
    #23
    These days I shoot two .22s: Anschutz MPR and Sako Quad. I would LOVE to be able to put them into a T5A (I'm sort of addicted to thumbhole stocks) or at least a T4A, emphasis on the A. I much prefer adjustable cheek pieces to stock packs or other cobbled up solutions.
     
    #24
    I know they are different. I was commenting on Speeddog saying that he would want his quad in a manners. I guess I. Figured he could be happy with any manners since he didn't specify an A. My bad.
     
    #25
    The TA for a more traditional light-weight cross-over rifle, and then a T6A for the trainers would satisfy just about everyone I think.

    If you haven't tried Manners new T6A... you owe it to yourself to give one a try. Obviously the thumbhole guys will want the T5's... but I think most shooters would gobble up T6A's and TA's for Sako Quad's and CZ 455's.

    The real solution would be to offer them in all the T-series stocks, the way McMillan does with their A-series.
     
    #26
    orkan said:
    The TA for a more traditional light-weight cross-over rifle, and then a T6A for the trainers would satisfy just about everyone I think.

    If you haven't tried Manners new T6A... you owe it to yourself to give one a try. Obviously the thumbhole guys will want the T5's... but I think most shooters would gobble up T6A's and TA's for Sako Quad's and CZ 455's.

    The real solution would be to offer them in all the T-series stocks, the way McMillan does with their A-series.
    Click to expand...

    Not true regarding the A5 at least (nore do I believe any of the A series based on their website info). That is per a email reply from Dick Davis himself. It didn't make sense to me because of the Sako Quad being available in the A5...another rimfire right! I would have to believe that an A5 for the Quad is NOT the same as the A5 for centerfire due to the difference in the dimension of the action diameter AND the dimension between the action and the bm/tg.
     
    #28
    bunsen27 said:
    They already do inlet for the CZ455

    CZ 455 Varmint Precision Trainer | CZ-USA

    Although they may not be able to sell them to the public due to agreements with CZ.

    ____________

    Tom, I'll send you a PM about this. I can think of several guys that would LOVE to have their Anschutz 64's sitting in a Manner's T2 or T4.
    Click to expand...


    Tom, you got that right
    i know of 10 MPR 64 owners, that are looking for a tac stock now,
    that is just in our small neck of the woods (TSC)
    if there are any more MPR 64 shooters that would love to have a manners stock,NOWS THE TIME TO SPEAK UP,
    while we have Mr manners attention
     
    #29
    Your right, I got brain locked. My bad.

    Well, in any case I tried to show a viable alternative to make a fit to most any available stock model. Just had to work on finding somebody willing to do it without waiting for someone to build it for the masses.

    orkan said:
    McMillan Tactical Stocks, McMillan Fiberglass Stocks, Synthetic Stocks, Tactical Stocks

    Look at the list of available inlets for each stock.

    Sako Quad is listed under: A5, A3, A3-5, and A2. Saw it a few other places as well.
    Click to expand...
     
    Last edited:
    #36
    Funny thing, I recently corresponded with Manners about this a few weeks ago as I didn't see this thread. Echoing what has already been said, but feeling the need to let folks know that I'm in... I already have a CZ455 Pt in a T4 and it is a perfect compliment to my similarly set-up 6.5CM. But I also have a 308 in a T3 and a 300WM in a MCS-T, and will be getting a lightweight hunter in an EH4. It would be wonderful to have a CZ455 in one of these lighter stocks. Walking around in the woods with a T4, and shooting it offhand, is far from ideal. And I'm ready to buy one now. I had looked at the McMillian offerings and passed them by. There's a good reason I stick with Manners.

    Orkan, I could maybe be persuaded to shift over to the Quad. Please let me know about your builds (schedule, cost, options). Thanks
     
    #37
    Tom told me to get back to him after the GAP Grind. I've posted this up on about 5 different websites, and the consensus is for a MCS-TA. Easily enough interest in that stock to make it worth a new mold. So for our builds, we're going with a TA.

    The Quad is superior to the CZ in almost every way. I've never had anything cycle CCI subsonic hp's as smoothly, with as little bullet deformation (none) as the Quad's. We'll be finalizing our build options and I'll put it up on our ecommerce site soon. I am waiting until I talk with Tom however, as the stock is a major sticking point in regard to timeframe and cost. Otherwise, all the other pieces of the puzzle are in place.
     
    #38
    orkan said:
    Tom told me to get back to him after the GAP Grind. I've posted this up on about 5 different websites, and the consensus is for a MCS-TA. Easily enough interest in that stock to make it worth a new mold. So for our builds, we're going with a TA.

    The Quad is superior to the CZ in almost every way. I've never had anything cycle CCI subsonic hp's as smoothly, with as little bullet deformation (none) as the Quad's. We'll be finalizing our build options and I'll put it up on our ecommerce site soon. I am waiting until I talk with Tom however, as the stock is a major sticking point in regard to timeframe and cost. Otherwise, all the other pieces of the puzzle are in place.
    Click to expand...

    Not saying it isn't I am just ignorant to the Quads as of now. Please elaborate on why the Quad is better than the CZ? I honestly want to know!

    Ben
     
    #39
    orkan said:
    Tom told me to get back to him after the GAP Grind. I've posted this up on about 5 different websites, and the consensus is for a MCS-TA. Easily enough interest in that stock to make it worth a new mold. So for our builds, we're going with a TA.

    The Quad is superior to the CZ in almost every way. I've never had anything cycle CCI subsonic hp's as smoothly, with as little bullet deformation (none) as the Quad's. We'll be finalizing our build options and I'll put it up on our ecommerce site soon. I am waiting until I talk with Tom however, as the stock is a major sticking point in regard to timeframe and cost. Otherwise, all the other pieces of the puzzle are in place.
    Click to expand...

    Yeah Quads are good but I really dont think the are superior to an equally upgraded CZ 455
     
    #40
    I don't want to get too far off the path here... because as it pertains to this project, you can literally choose what you want. I wont' force you to go with a Quad if you don't want to. ;)

    However, here's how I see it after having spent time with both:

    CZ has plastic mags... Quads are metal.
    Quads feed better, with less bullet deformation.
    Quads have a "normal" safety like we're used to. CZ's is "backwards" and awkward.
    Quad mag retention is awesome.
    I believe the quad to have superior bedding interface.
    Quads have a remarkably simple and very good sako/tikka trigger.
    CZ has a high 90-degree bolt lift... and can limit optic choices. Quad's have 60 degree lift, with far better ergos when combined with DIP or KMW knob.
    The bolt operation is much smoother on the Quad.
    Not that it matters to those of us that are replacing the stock, but the factory stock on the quad varmint is superior to that of CZ's "varmint" offering.

    ...and we haven't even started on barrel changes, and the quad is superior there as well. This does not surprise me in the slightest, given a CZ can be had for half the price. I believe that if CZ 455 was equal to a quad, equally configured... then the price would reflect it. It doesn't. I really wouldn't expect it to. If there is someone else that has owned both, perhaps you can weigh in?
     
    #41
    i do own both and you arent right on about half of the stuff. barrel changes quad is lacking. on the quad if you have the optics set with the right rings to give you minimal objective clearnace you have to remove the scope because the barrel must go up and out of the stock, the cz you dont have to! the cz comes with one plastic mag, you can purchase steel mags if you choose, the sake comes with one 5rnd steel mag and you can get ten round steel mags but you can only shoot 8-9 out a ten round mag becuase they dont feed the first 1-2 rounds if you stack them in there to capacity. ive never had an issue feeding all ten rounds out of my cz. as for bullet deformation neither one of them deform the bullet when you chamber one and then extract it. The bolt lift is another thing the sako has hands down a better bolt operation and safety manipulation. the cz safety just plain sucks. but the stocks are backwards too the sako stock looks like and feels nice but is really soft wood scratches and dents easy and has flex in the forearm area. the cz stock is hard wood, not near as pretty, but its stiffer in the forearm and actually sits in there more firm than the sako. but these are just how i see the rifles.

    so all in all my opinion is the cz is a better beat around rifle than the sako but when i go to my safe i still pick up the quad when i go to kill stuff!
     
    #42
    plunker20 said:
    but when i go to my safe i still pick up the quad when i go to kill stuff!
    Click to expand...
    As I said, the sako is a better rifle. If it wasn't, you'd pick up the CZ wouldn't you? Notice I'm not saying the CZ 455 is a bad rifle. It's simply not as good as the sako quad. I'll concede on the barrel changes... for some people. It only applies for those that don't run picatiny rings. With pic rings, I've had the scope off a dozen times and zero is retained exactly. So taking the scope off is no big thing for me. I'd rather do that, than take the stock off, as you need to do with the CZ. As you said, bolt operation and safety manipulation goes to the quad. Mags we'll call a wash. Still, the rest of what I said is true as I see it. So I wouldn't say I was "wrong" about half... I'd say you share a different opinion about two or three things and agree on the important stuff. Yet if it's victory you seek, I'll gladly give it to you.

    Yet it doesn't really matter, as this isn't a quad vs cz thread. A MCS-TA that works for a quad, will work just as good for a 455 inlet. Choose the one you like, and then call Manners.
     
    #43
    I dont have a Quad but I can reasonably say that my CZ455PT can compete with an equally configured Quad any day of the week
    as for metal mags you can buy metal ones online anywhere. I have 3 5 rounders and 2 plastic 10 rounders
    as for the safety you get used to it
    as for barrel changing you got me. The only barrel I intend to change is to a Lijia barrel
    mag retention? Mine retains its mags just fine
    yes optics and the bolt handle can be an issue but not on mine with the base, rings, and optics I currently have
    My bolt cycles just fine though initially it needed to be broken in

    and should I mention Quads are uber expensive when you can find them mine was 900.00 out the door with the manners stock


    image by usmcchet92_96, on Flickr
     
    #45
    ...and my 77/22, 10/22, K31, Walhter KKM, Annie 1913... I'm sure if there were a sizable enough market for it they would. As much as we all bug Manners about the inlets we'd like to have, there are many other stock makers out there who would love to have this problem.
     
    #49
    Just talked with Tom. He's going to stage up a CZ 455 and a Quad in a MCS-TA and see how things measure out. The goal being a TA that will work with both. Due to the rear tang being different on both, one may only be available in painted colors, while the other would be available in molded colors. We are going to touch base in a week, and will update with the report on how the prototypes look.

    We're going to need about 30 people on board in order to get this project off the ground. So if you're serious about this, start setting aside funds!
     
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