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Maggie’s Man's Best Friend Thread
- Thread starter Sieg
- Start date
Hi,
Save yourself 50% of the cost and import one yourself.
Find an off the beaten path, pure working breeder in Czech and handle the transaction yourself.
Sincerely,
Theis
Last edited:
Glad to hear somebody is out there doing the right thing by dogs.
My guess is you'll probably have a loyal buddy for life.
Too many times the dogs "rescued" from dogfighing rings get executed shortly afterwards by their "rescuers" once the cameras a gone.
You should watch the movie "Death Hunt" with Charles Bronson sometime for fun.
Hi,
@Speedarino
Take a look at http://vamozbohemia.com/for_sale.htm
Specifically the Unkas Ad-Gur puppy for the DDR style build/temperament.
Sincerely,
Theis
@Speedarino
Take a look at http://vamozbohemia.com/for_sale.htm
Specifically the Unkas Ad-Gur puppy for the DDR style build/temperament.
Sincerely,
Theis
Chesapeake Bay Retrievers
Considered the pit bull of the retriever breed. Smart. Loyal. Protector. A breed worth checking out.
Considered the pit bull of the retriever breed. Smart. Loyal. Protector. A breed worth checking out.
I'd probably have some of those Chessies if it wasn't too hot for them to have a good life down here in TX
Had a Chessie when I was a kid. Fearless. I once threw a rock in Clear Creek in the winter, and out of the blue she went into the water and came back with the exact rock that I threw. Both myself and my parents were speechless.
My dog Fats. He’s an American Bully, bought him off some unsavory characters in Stockton.
My two year old bed hog. I love him to death.
Might take a look at these? https://sapphireshepherds.com/
We have one of their males "Cole",best dog I've ever had!He just weighed in at 122lbs,and 5 yrs old,and not fat!
The wife decided to add another pup to our group, a 10 week old, fawn brindle Pittie baby.
She is off a blue male and a tri color female. She looks to have the making of a big, beautiful girl.
She is off a blue male and a tri color female. She looks to have the making of a big, beautiful girl.
This was Bea. Incredibly smart and loving dog. Everyone that met her wanted her as their own. We adopted her a couple years ago, but after only having her for 3 months she contracted a deadly infection that attacked her nervous system and we were forced to put her down. I've never been so upset, never thought I would feel that way after only 3 months with her also.
Shortly after, we found this tick infested, malnourished mutt, who has done a very good job at filling the void in our hearts that was left after we lost Bea.
Attachments
The current issue of Offgrid magazine has a couple of articles about protection dogs.
I have more than a tiny bit of background in the training of dogs and the humans that love them, but those articles helped me learn more. Yes, you are being trained, that is a key point of the exercise. Anyone that loves and studies dogs, from whatever perspective, will get an intuitive feel for just how different of a beast they are, yet how those differences don't matter as long as you love, respect and lead and trust them to do their part.
This young lady lives down the road from us. She heard we had a littler of puppies and knocked on our front door to ask if she could play with them. They seem to be getting along just fine:
I need some input... A relative has a little (20 pound) mixed breed terrier that is/was a rescue dog. The dog was rescued about 4 years ago. The dog has turned out to be an unpredictable biter, and will bite (not nip, but a full bite the shit out of you, clamp down hard and break skin) without a growl warning. The dog bites HARD.
I have owned all sorts of different breeds (pit bull, elkhound, basset hound, border collies, small terrier, rough collie like Lassie, Kelpie) so I'm not new to dogs, or to dogs with behavior issues.
We don't know what kind of abuse the little dog had before it was adopted at about age 2-3 years. It has bitten it's owner (my relative) on a number of occasions at it's home, has bitten it's dog walker, bitten me, and last night bit my wife.
I'm willing to give a dog lots of slack if I think it was abused just because abuse can cause the bad behavior, and I don't think it is fair to hold the dog accountable for behavior caused by abuse. However, this does not excuse bad behavior. The liability of a biter nailing a little kid (the little biter is really cute and therefore deceptive) at some park is unacceptable.
I don't believe in rewarding bad behavior by yielding to the dog, neither do I believe in further abusing the little dog by beating it when it bites. I just don't see myself as someone who beats the hell out of a 20 pound dog.
From what I have read, when a dog bites without prior growl, or other warning, and bites when food isn't involved, and essentially bites unpredictably, it cannot be "fixed", leaving me with the only option of having the dog put down before it costs my relative a pension, house, criminal charges, or some other unacceptable outcome.
Does anyone know of, or have experience with dogs like this, and if so, is a favorable outcome possible? Does anyone know of any trainers who can "fix" a dog like this? I was bitten about a week ago, and my wife was bitten last night. After I was bitten I continued to tell my wife to be careful, yet until she got bitten, she was telling me she was being careful enough. From what I have read over the past week, the ultimate outcome for dogs like this is having them put down.
Can anyone point me in the direction of a more favorable outcome? I'm pretty realistic, and this posting is kind of my last ditch effort to avoid putting the dog down. Thanks to all who give reasonable responses.
I have owned all sorts of different breeds (pit bull, elkhound, basset hound, border collies, small terrier, rough collie like Lassie, Kelpie) so I'm not new to dogs, or to dogs with behavior issues.
We don't know what kind of abuse the little dog had before it was adopted at about age 2-3 years. It has bitten it's owner (my relative) on a number of occasions at it's home, has bitten it's dog walker, bitten me, and last night bit my wife.
I'm willing to give a dog lots of slack if I think it was abused just because abuse can cause the bad behavior, and I don't think it is fair to hold the dog accountable for behavior caused by abuse. However, this does not excuse bad behavior. The liability of a biter nailing a little kid (the little biter is really cute and therefore deceptive) at some park is unacceptable.
I don't believe in rewarding bad behavior by yielding to the dog, neither do I believe in further abusing the little dog by beating it when it bites. I just don't see myself as someone who beats the hell out of a 20 pound dog.
From what I have read, when a dog bites without prior growl, or other warning, and bites when food isn't involved, and essentially bites unpredictably, it cannot be "fixed", leaving me with the only option of having the dog put down before it costs my relative a pension, house, criminal charges, or some other unacceptable outcome.
Does anyone know of, or have experience with dogs like this, and if so, is a favorable outcome possible? Does anyone know of any trainers who can "fix" a dog like this? I was bitten about a week ago, and my wife was bitten last night. After I was bitten I continued to tell my wife to be careful, yet until she got bitten, she was telling me she was being careful enough. From what I have read over the past week, the ultimate outcome for dogs like this is having them put down.
Can anyone point me in the direction of a more favorable outcome? I'm pretty realistic, and this posting is kind of my last ditch effort to avoid putting the dog down. Thanks to all who give reasonable responses.
There are a lot of good trainers out there. Probably should go for a board and train type session. They can be from 2-8 weeks, depending on the dog. Though typically not what some folks call cheap, getting a dog trained is by far the best investment you can make for you and your pets well being.
I'm not opposed to a board and train, and spending money to help the little critter is much more acceptable to me than having him put down, or allowing someone to beat the shit out of him when he misbehaves. Yep, good training is expensive, and would sting my wallet, but it wouldn't bother me as much as not doing anything, or even worse, doing the wrong thing. I gotta look myself in the mirror and respect myself, so I want to do my best to try and help the dog, even if it hurts financially.
Unfortunately, from the research I have done, dogs that bite without warning, and without any pattern are often not able to be "fixed"...hence my request for suggestions.
Unfortunately, from the research I have done, dogs that bite without warning, and without any pattern are often not able to be "fixed"...hence my request for suggestions.
"The Commando Whisperer" by John Schwartze is about Jeff Franklin's life and career.
"Dogs for Defense" by Jeff Franklin.
Good stuff!
Yessir!
Little guy is getting back into shape pretty easily..I got his hair coming back covering his fighting scars.
Once he is fully up to his desired weight I have to look at possible surgical options for his left front leg..it was broken and allowed to reset crooked as hell. Doesn’t seem to bother him so I’m not in a huge rush right now...just focusing on his general health.
He is such a sweet and caring little bastard! Every time I look at him I am overcome with the urge to seriously fuck up his former owner!
Bench
Have you tried something as simple as dominating him right after he bites you? A friend had a 2y/o Corgie male that had plenty of attitude and independence at times, I knew the dog well and was watching him at his shop and he slipped out on recon, found him a building over rolling in cat shit. Told him to come and got the ears back daggered eyed stare, when I got to him and reached down for his collar he bit me hard. I grabbed him by the throat and flipped him on his back and held him there having a little come to Jesus conversation with him. Never had any issues with him over the next 9 years of his life and he was never not glad to see me.
The other would be a training collar with vibrate, momentary and continuous adjustable shock. I've used them on my dogs verses leashes over 10 years now. Very seldom do they ever get shocked, just one or two long vibration inputs with verbal commands corrects them.
It's tough because dogs don't ever forget good or really bad situations.
I've never really met a bad dog...… only one's that have been screwed up by bad humans.
I commend you for your efforts.
My little beggar. I think he may be a democrat.
Seig,
I have considered that. And I think a variation of that would work..however, while the sensitive owner of the dog is here, she is really protective of the dog, so that tactic will have to wait until after she has returned home. I will also need to get some good welding gauntlets so he can 't bite while I'm flipping him onto his back and holding him down.
I wonder though, if the dog is smart enough to figure out the I am more dominant than he is, would the biting problem persist for anyone else who has not yet flipped him on his back and held him down. I am free to make the decision of whether to be around a dog that may bite, but someone at a doggie park, who hasn't yet flipped him on his back and held him there, could still be a bite victim, and that is where the problem is.
After having to have a couple of "come to Jesus" meetings with my pit bulls, I understand the tactic, and got really good at doing it without really hurting the dog. However the problem needs to be dealt with in general so the dog won't bite strangers at the dog park or on a walk.
A muzzle is always a possibility, but I would rather figure out why the dog feels threatened, and figure out how to teach him an alternative behavior that meets his needs (whatever the hell those are) and protects the general public. The "final option" always remains on the table, but I want to try other things first.
It just angers the shit out of me that some asshat abused the little guy to the point where he thought he had to bite in order to solve whatever the problem was. There is simply no need to treat a dog that way. So, I cut him lots of slack and will go the extra mile in my attempts to solve the issue enough to where the dog can have decent quality of life, without having to live in a secure enclosure, and/or wear a muzzle for the rest of his life.
WE have wild rabbits all over our back yard area, and I would love to feel that I trust the dog enough so that I could take him off his leash, without a muzzle and allow him to run around, sniff the rabbit burrows and warrens, and even chase one if he can spook one out. However, I don't want anyone getting bitten when we call the dog off the rabbits..and chasing rabbits with a muzzle just doesn't seem very "natural".
Thanks to all so very much for all suggestions that may help the little guy out.
I have considered that. And I think a variation of that would work..however, while the sensitive owner of the dog is here, she is really protective of the dog, so that tactic will have to wait until after she has returned home. I will also need to get some good welding gauntlets so he can 't bite while I'm flipping him onto his back and holding him down.
I wonder though, if the dog is smart enough to figure out the I am more dominant than he is, would the biting problem persist for anyone else who has not yet flipped him on his back and held him down. I am free to make the decision of whether to be around a dog that may bite, but someone at a doggie park, who hasn't yet flipped him on his back and held him there, could still be a bite victim, and that is where the problem is.
After having to have a couple of "come to Jesus" meetings with my pit bulls, I understand the tactic, and got really good at doing it without really hurting the dog. However the problem needs to be dealt with in general so the dog won't bite strangers at the dog park or on a walk.
A muzzle is always a possibility, but I would rather figure out why the dog feels threatened, and figure out how to teach him an alternative behavior that meets his needs (whatever the hell those are) and protects the general public. The "final option" always remains on the table, but I want to try other things first.
It just angers the shit out of me that some asshat abused the little guy to the point where he thought he had to bite in order to solve whatever the problem was. There is simply no need to treat a dog that way. So, I cut him lots of slack and will go the extra mile in my attempts to solve the issue enough to where the dog can have decent quality of life, without having to live in a secure enclosure, and/or wear a muzzle for the rest of his life.
WE have wild rabbits all over our back yard area, and I would love to feel that I trust the dog enough so that I could take him off his leash, without a muzzle and allow him to run around, sniff the rabbit burrows and warrens, and even chase one if he can spook one out. However, I don't want anyone getting bitten when we call the dog off the rabbits..and chasing rabbits with a muzzle just doesn't seem very "natural".
Thanks to all so very much for all suggestions that may help the little guy out.
We used to have a Doberman and his nickname was 'Obama-dog.' Always looking for free handouts.
It often makes me wonder how much abuse and neglect it takes to make a dog this defensive considering how inherently forgiving they are. It seriously pisses me off as well.
It can take a lot of time and energy to undo what some POS owners have done. I commend and respect you for your compassion.
It can take a lot of time and energy to undo what some POS owners have done. I commend and respect you for your compassion.
Hi,
@Unknown
Lets bypass the no barking or growling part of the situation as IMO it really does not matter because there are dozens of other "signs" that the dog is uncomfortable, frightened, panicking, anxiety, etc etc that he could possibly and more than likely is doing before he actually bites.
During any of the incidents leading up to and including the bite portion of the situations how/what did the dog act/look like; such as:
1. Tail position/Tail movement
2. Ear position/Ear movement
3. Eye position/Eye movement
4. Neck hair position
5. Down backbone hair position
6. Standing/Sitting/Lying/"backing" down type look
7. Head position/Head movement
It sounds like you have a 2 sided issue that can actually be "enforcing" his behavior instead of correcting it.
1. He has been given too much slack and leadway due to being abused.
2. Smaller dogs just make it harder to discipline them for bad behavior.
Sincerely,
Theis
@Unknown
Lets bypass the no barking or growling part of the situation as IMO it really does not matter because there are dozens of other "signs" that the dog is uncomfortable, frightened, panicking, anxiety, etc etc that he could possibly and more than likely is doing before he actually bites.
During any of the incidents leading up to and including the bite portion of the situations how/what did the dog act/look like; such as:
1. Tail position/Tail movement
2. Ear position/Ear movement
3. Eye position/Eye movement
4. Neck hair position
5. Down backbone hair position
6. Standing/Sitting/Lying/"backing" down type look
7. Head position/Head movement
It sounds like you have a 2 sided issue that can actually be "enforcing" his behavior instead of correcting it.
1. He has been given too much slack and leadway due to being abused.
2. Smaller dogs just make it harder to discipline them for bad behavior.
Sincerely,
Theis
Thies,
I think part of your input is spot on.. especially #1 in the second section. The relative who owns the dog works long hours, and allows the dog to be dominant in their home. Discipline is inconsistent because:
1. extended hours at home alone, even though a dog walker is hired to take the dog out twice a day during work hours.
2. Inability, or unwillingness (or both) to take the dog to obedience classes and/or do regular training and reinforcement due to both long work hours,, and physical limitations of the owner.
3. Owner is a first time dog owner. Had dogs as a child, but never had primary responsibility to care for and train the dog. I think there is much that needs to be learned by owner.
Because of these factors, I think the dog is unwittingly being reinforced in it's dominance in their home. While I am fearful of being bitten again (the wound still hasn't healed up), I can't bring myself to dislike the little dog as I think much of it's behavior has been caused by humans, whether deliberate, or unknowing. I couldn't detect any hesitation on the part of the dog during the session, and he appeared to be enjoying himself. Ears, lips, tail, and fur on his back line didn't show any change before the bite. I have dealt with other biting dogs and can usually spot something like a very quick and subtle lip curl exposing the teeth, change in tail posture or ear position, or even the dog changing it's sitting position. Seeing no warning was why I was so surprised.
When I was bitten I was giving the dog treats and doing the part where I put the treat on the ground, and say "wait", then a moment later say "OK" and the dog gets the treat. We had done this successfully 5 to 10 times and the dog was sitting as I went to put another treat on the ground and he bit my hand. It wasn't a nip, nor was it a mistake because at other times when offered a treat he very gently takes the treat from the hand offering it... It was a full on lunge and clamp down bite. The next night he bit my wife, but I wasn't there, so I don't know the circumstances other than what they told me.
One thing I haven't mentioned to the owner is the possibility of brain damage. The owner previous to the current one had the dog for a couple of years, and I just don't know if he was physically abusive, but do know he just didn't seem to give a shit about when the dog ate, or was let out for bathroom breaks. He was a south seas islander, and it would surprise me if he beat the dog if the dog shit on the floor because it was left alone for 12-14 hours.
My inclination is after the (owner leaves the dog with us and returns home)to have a well known trainer do an evaluation of both dog and household ($300) providing what history we know about the dog. This evaluation can take 2-3 hours. Then get input from the trainer along with a recommendation. The trainer is a separate financial entity from a local bording/training facility. The trainer's web site says that the evaluation will be very specific and may include euthanasia if appropriate.
I'm really hoping there is something that can be done to help the little dog as he deserves a fair chance at life before someone throws in the towel or regards him as "disposable". Dog is only 3-4 years old.
Like I said earlier, I genuinely appreciate all the helpful input, so thank you very much.
I think part of your input is spot on.. especially #1 in the second section. The relative who owns the dog works long hours, and allows the dog to be dominant in their home. Discipline is inconsistent because:
1. extended hours at home alone, even though a dog walker is hired to take the dog out twice a day during work hours.
2. Inability, or unwillingness (or both) to take the dog to obedience classes and/or do regular training and reinforcement due to both long work hours,, and physical limitations of the owner.
3. Owner is a first time dog owner. Had dogs as a child, but never had primary responsibility to care for and train the dog. I think there is much that needs to be learned by owner.
Because of these factors, I think the dog is unwittingly being reinforced in it's dominance in their home. While I am fearful of being bitten again (the wound still hasn't healed up), I can't bring myself to dislike the little dog as I think much of it's behavior has been caused by humans, whether deliberate, or unknowing. I couldn't detect any hesitation on the part of the dog during the session, and he appeared to be enjoying himself. Ears, lips, tail, and fur on his back line didn't show any change before the bite. I have dealt with other biting dogs and can usually spot something like a very quick and subtle lip curl exposing the teeth, change in tail posture or ear position, or even the dog changing it's sitting position. Seeing no warning was why I was so surprised.
When I was bitten I was giving the dog treats and doing the part where I put the treat on the ground, and say "wait", then a moment later say "OK" and the dog gets the treat. We had done this successfully 5 to 10 times and the dog was sitting as I went to put another treat on the ground and he bit my hand. It wasn't a nip, nor was it a mistake because at other times when offered a treat he very gently takes the treat from the hand offering it... It was a full on lunge and clamp down bite. The next night he bit my wife, but I wasn't there, so I don't know the circumstances other than what they told me.
One thing I haven't mentioned to the owner is the possibility of brain damage. The owner previous to the current one had the dog for a couple of years, and I just don't know if he was physically abusive, but do know he just didn't seem to give a shit about when the dog ate, or was let out for bathroom breaks. He was a south seas islander, and it would surprise me if he beat the dog if the dog shit on the floor because it was left alone for 12-14 hours.
My inclination is after the (owner leaves the dog with us and returns home)to have a well known trainer do an evaluation of both dog and household ($300) providing what history we know about the dog. This evaluation can take 2-3 hours. Then get input from the trainer along with a recommendation. The trainer is a separate financial entity from a local bording/training facility. The trainer's web site says that the evaluation will be very specific and may include euthanasia if appropriate.
I'm really hoping there is something that can be done to help the little dog as he deserves a fair chance at life before someone throws in the towel or regards him as "disposable". Dog is only 3-4 years old.
Like I said earlier, I genuinely appreciate all the helpful input, so thank you very much.
I routinely adopt and rehab fighting dogs, and it goes against the grain but sometimes it's necessary...most of the time the dog bites out of pure fear...but just like people, some dogs are just assholes that need to be reminded who's the alpha!Have you tried something as simple as dominating him right after he bites you? A friend had a 2y/o Corgie male that had plenty of attitude and independence at times, I knew the dog well and was watching him at his shop and he slipped out on recon, found him a building over rolling in cat shit. Told him to come and got the ears back daggered eyed stare, when I got to him and reached down for his collar he bit me hard. I grabbed him by the throat and flipped him on his back and held him there having a little come to Jesus conversation with him. Never had any issues with him over the next 9 years of his life and he was never not glad to see me.
The other would be a training collar with vibrate, momentary and continuous adjustable shock. I've used them on my dogs verses leashes over 10 years now. Very seldom do they ever get shocked, just one or two long vibration inputs with verbal commands corrects them.
It's tough because dogs don't ever forget good or really bad situations.
I've never really met a bad dog...… only one's that have been screwed up by bad humans.
I commend you for your efforts.
I never hit them unless it's an absolute emergency....but sometimes you really need to scare the ever loving shit out of them and reacert the dominance
Bench
I Think your assessment is correct. This dog needs obedience training from a professional. I am not a professional, but I have participated in several years of training. Obedience training is as much about training the dog owner how to handle and correct the dog, as it is training the dog. If this dog's owner is unwilling to participate in obedience training it may be a lost cause.
Anybody got a litter of yellow or black lab pups I’m looking for a big female 80-90lb range
Let me know
Must be papered
Let me know
Must be papered
Finally got his ear infection taken care of(weird shaped ear canal)
His head is really filling out
Bench
FWIW, we made great progress with the little dog while it was with us. Rather than leaving the dog with us so we could continue our progress and get the dog to some more formal training, the family member decided to take the dog back home. I predict that the dog will bite the wrong person or dog, and end up being killed by a larger more powerful dog, euthanized for biting a person.
I tried explaining that sure, it would be sad to leave the dog behind for a while now, but that sadness would be nothing compared to loosing the dog to my above prediction. My speech fell of deaf ears.
Thanks to all who gave decent input. It helped me arrange my "talking points", but eventually our plans to keep the dog so we could deal with it's issues fell apart.
I tried explaining that sure, it would be sad to leave the dog behind for a while now, but that sadness would be nothing compared to loosing the dog to my above prediction. My speech fell of deaf ears.
Thanks to all who gave decent input. It helped me arrange my "talking points", but eventually our plans to keep the dog so we could deal with it's issues fell apart.
Geist hanging out at the loading bench.
...and telling me its time to eat.
...and telling me its time to eat.
"A dog does not live as long as a man and this natural law is the fount of many tears. If boy and puppy might grow to manhood and doghood together, and together grow old, and so in due course die, full many a heartache might be avoided. But the world is not so ordered, and dogs will die and men will weep for them so long as there are dogs and men."
By Ben Ames William, from a Wingshooter's Autumn
Many years ago after my dog died, a very close friend at work knew how much I was hurting. As we passed by each other in the hallway he handed me a folded up piece of paper with the above written on it. He didn't say a thing, he just handed me the little piece of paper and kept on walking...and I knew he understood.
Some folks say there are no dogs in heaven. I don't believe it, but either way when I die, I want to go to wherever all the dogs are.
By Ben Ames William, from a Wingshooter's Autumn
Many years ago after my dog died, a very close friend at work knew how much I was hurting. As we passed by each other in the hallway he handed me a folded up piece of paper with the above written on it. He didn't say a thing, he just handed me the little piece of paper and kept on walking...and I knew he understood.
Some folks say there are no dogs in heaven. I don't believe it, but either way when I die, I want to go to wherever all the dogs are.
My eldest daughter came in for a few days to dodge the hurricane. She brought her dog and her hedgehog.
Francisco is a bit overweight because she spoiled him. He's been on a diet and is down about 20 pounds.
Besides eating his favorite thing to do is to sleep.
Francisco is a bit overweight because she spoiled him. He's been on a diet and is down about 20 pounds.
Besides eating his favorite thing to do is to sleep.
He’s gained a bit a muscle since I got him...
Bench
He is a good dog...he could hop over that gate with ease, yet he is obeying the rule that says when the gate is up, he is to stay in the kitchen. Good boy.
Oh, he can NOT jump over the fence! Lol
He is no athlete...very much a hammer vs scalpel situation..very much a blunt object! He would just run through it and break it if he wanted out...but, he is super good..probably the best dog I have ever rehabbed...I already decided to keep this one.:also he is still intact so I might breed him to get one or two of his puppies
Bench
This is Jaxx. My daughter brought this chaotic fucker home from the shelter. Right now he is 91lbs of 10 month old puppy destruction and disturbance. Every time I see him all I can say is Good Grief. This mother fucker ate every ones shoes, all of the other pets toys and 2 window sills in less than a week. He chews tennis balls like Hubba Bubba bubble gum and eats them. Ever seen chartreuse dog shit? He's 1/2 german shepard and 1/2 rott. Besides all of the above this fucker is the most loving dog on the planet, not a mean bone in his body. He has it in him somewhere but it's refreshing to have a nice dog for now. He's starting to give my Catahoula a run for his money. This dude is so big that he can see everything on the kitchen table sitting down.
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