Rifle Scopes March 1-10 Shorty Dual Focal - Reviews?

[NC_Libertarian]

Europtic now has listings for the new reticle. Not in stock.

March F Tactical Shorty 1-10x24mm DR-TR1 Reticle 0.1 MIL FFP Illuminated Riflescope D10SV24FDIML-DR-TR1

FREE SHIPPING on March F Tactical Shorty 1-10x24mm DR-TR1 Reticle 0.1 MIL FFP Illuminated Riflescope D10SV24FDIML-DR-TR1

www.eurooptic.com

 

[smarcus]

I received my March 1-10 with the original reticle. Mounted it using the Tier One QD mount on a 16 inch Proof CF barreled AR15 and Omega suppressor. The dot is definately daylight bright, not nuclear but a slight step below. At 1x it functions as a red dot and the edges of the scope almost disappear. Shooting off the tree is easy from 3x up to 10x. Glass is fantastic but there is a small bit of CA. The eye box is comfortable and was not an issue even at 10x. Parallax allows you to dial right in on longer shots. I shot it out to 500M on steel. I am extremely happy with this optic.

One issue I had was with the supplied snap on mag ring lever and the qd mount. When rotated all the way to the left toward 1x the plastic lever contacts the QD lever just before true 1x. Like at 1.1. The plastic lever is a bit fat and may have room to be clearanced or there may be aftermarket aluminum ones that are thinner and don't have this issue.

Also included picture of it with my 18inch Proof 6.5 Grendel set up for Hogs and Coyotes. And I apologize for lousy iphone pictures.

 

[Denys]

Nice quick review. About that plastic lever; I'm not aware of that problem when using the March mount but I can see where a wider mount could get in the way a bit. You might want to shave a little plastic as you proposed. I am not aware of any aftermarket lever and if there was one in aluminum, I would advise against it. You may think the snap-on plastic lever feels cheap; but its main feature is just that: snap-on, because it can also snap-off and not hurt anything or anyone. I have been using these levers on my March scopes for many years, and I have had them come off when they encountered something. I'm glad they do, because I just pick up the two pieces and put the lever back together in a jiffy and I'm thankful it did come off and not stay there and gouge something.

I have seen some scopes where a metal lever is screwed into the ring Yuck.

 

[smarcus]

Nice quick review. About that plastic lever; I'm not aware of that problem when using the March mount but I can see where a wider mount could get in the way a bit. You might want to shave a little plastic as you proposed. I am not aware of any aftermarket lever and if there was one in aluminum, I would advise against it. You may think the snap-on plastic lever feels cheap; but its main feature is just that: snap-on, because it can also snap-off and not hurt anything or anyone. I have been using these levers on my March scopes for many years, and I have had them come off when they encountered something. I'm glad they do, because I just pick up the two pieces and put the lever back together in a jiffy and I'm thankful it did come off and not stay there and gouge something.

I have seen some scopes where a metal lever is screwed into the ring Yuck.

I found MK Machining prints polymer ones for MARCH F scopes and it has an offset "nub" placement so I ordered one. Looks like if it fits the offset will allow it the clearance needed plus they do FDE and who doesn't need another shade of FDE? Not sure it fits but cheap enough to try.

lMarch throw lever

 

[NC_Libertarian]

I received my March 1-10 with the original reticle. Mounted it using the Tier One QD mount on a 16 inch Proof CF barreled AR15 and Omega suppressor. The dot is definately daylight bright, not nuclear but a slight step below. At 1x it functions as a red dot and the edges of the scope almost disappear. Shooting off the tree is easy from 3x up to 10x. Glass is fantastic but there is a small bit of CA. The eye box is comfortable and was not an issue even at 10x. Parallax allows you to dial right in on longer shots. I shot it out to 500M on steel. I am extremely happy with this optic.

One issue I had was with the supplied snap on mag ring lever and the qd mount. When rotated all the way to the left toward 1x the plastic lever contacts the QD lever just before true 1x. Like at 1.1. The plastic lever is a bit fat and may have room to be clearanced or there may be aftermarket aluminum ones that are thinner and don't have this issue.

Also included picture of it with my 18inch Proof 6.5 Grendel set up for Hogs and Coyotes. And I apologize for lousy iphone pictures.

View attachment 7713112View attachment 7713122

Not sure how happy I would be if my new $2800 scope is exhibiting CA.

 

[smarcus]

Not sure how happy I would be if my new $2800 scope is exhibiting CA.

It's not bad but there is slight. Just to add that my brother didn't notice it by I seem to be extremely sensitive to it in optics. Not the first scope where I see it and others don't.

 

[gregsjt]

Not sure how happy I would be if my new $2800 scope is exhibiting CA.

Show my a scope in any price range that doesn't have some CA in some conditions?

 

[gxer]

I found MK Machining prints polymer ones for MARCH F scopes and it has an offset "nub" placement so I ordered one. Looks like if it fits the offset will allow it the clearance needed plus they do FDE and who doesn't need another shade of FDE? Not sure it fits but cheap enough to try.

lMarch throw lever

I had the same issue with that tier1 mount and throw lever. I can also confirm that the MKM lever will fix this issue. but if you can go with the pro series. It looks better and is more rigid.

March Pro Series Throw Levers

Upgrade your March optic with one of our March Pro Series throw levers, speeding up magnification changes and target engagements without breaking the bank. Our Pro Series Throw Levers are printed using a HP Multi Jet Fusion 5200 printer. This allows us to get the surface finish of a modeled...

www.mkmachining.com

 

[smarcus]

I had the same issue with that tier1 mount and throw lever. I can also confirm that the MKM lever will fix this issue. but if you can go with the pro series. It looks better and is more rigid.

March Pro Series Throw Levers

Upgrade your March optic with one of our March Pro Series throw levers, speeding up magnification changes and target engagements without breaking the bank. Our Pro Series Throw Levers are printed using a HP Multi Jet Fusion 5200 printer. This allows us to get the surface finish of a modeled...

www.mkmachining.com

I already ordered the other. I didn't notice the Pro series. Is there a difference? You had to go and tell me......damn it.

 

[gxer]

I already ordered the other. I didn't notice the Pro series. Is there a difference? You had to go and tell me......damn it.

The non-pro version has the obvious 3D printing artifacts due to FDM process. The Pro series has more of a finished look due to a different printing technology. Their sales page for the march lever has the picture of the pro series. It should look similar to this: https://www.mkmachining.com/product/athlon-polymer-throw-levers/#throw-lever-model

 

[NC_Libertarian]

Show my a scope in any price range that doesn't have some CA in some conditions?

Tangent Theta

 

[smarcus]

When TT makes a 18 oz 1-10 dual reticle illuminated with parallax LPVO for $2500 let me know cause I want in on that.

 

[koshkin]

Tangent Theta

Tangent Theta has some mild radial CA in the erector system. Under the right conditions I can see it as a light blue fringe near some of the reticle edges.

ILya

 

[NC_Libertarian]

When TT makes a 18 oz 1-10 dual reticle illuminated with parallax LPVO for $2500 let me know cause I want in on that.

I will take 3 of them.

But a $2500 price tag was not part of the original comment. It said "in any price range".

 

[NC_Libertarian]

Tangent Theta has some mild radial CA in the erector system. Under the right conditions I can see it as a light blue fringe near some of the reticle edges.

ILya

I have tried everything to get any CA out of mine, and I can't do it. May be I should try it again.

Is this something you have seen on all TTs, or is this a certain scope you have had in your possession?

 

[koshkin]

I have tried everything to get any CA out of mine, and I can't do it. May be I should try it again.

Is this something you have seen on all TTs, or is this a certain scope you have had in your possession?

I have seen it on multiple TTs and Premiers prior to that. It is a rather faint effect, but if you know what you are looking for you can find it.

The point I was making is that is is present to some degree in every optical system of this type whether you see it or not. It is measurable. The question is not whether it is there. The question is how much of it we are willing to toelrate.

ILya

 

[smarcus]

I will take 3 of them.

But a $2500 price tag was not part of the original comment. It said "in any price range".

I know, i saw the "in any price range". Just pointing out that I would be interested in a TT product meeting those requirements. Until then I'm happy with the March.

 

[ormandj]

I have tried everything to get any CA out of mine, and I can't do it. May be I should try it again.

Is this something you have seen on all TTs, or is this a certain scope you have had in your possession?

Every TT I have owned has had slight CA in varying situations. I’ve never seen any optic that does not. It’s just slight enough I don’t care, and I’m overly sensitive to it.

 

[StaMic006]

What are the odds the DR-TR1 reticles actually ship this year?

 

[Denys]

Deon has posted some good information about the Dual Reticle and the challenges of building one.

It's a 3 part series:

Concept behind a dual reticle

Differences in manufacturing of reticles

Examples, pictures and videos

 

[gregsjt]

Interesting that the POA changes with respect to zoom in SFP scopes, I didn't know that.

 

[Denys]

Interesting that the POA changes with respect to zoom in SFP scopes, I didn't know that.

Yeah, they can. In many cases, it's very small and almost undetectable, in other cases, it can be significant. For instance, I mounted an NF NXS12-42X56 on my .22LR and took it to a rimfire match. It was a little sporting because the minimum distance for the side focus was 50(ish) yards. Anyway, I started at 12X and got zeroed in nicely. Then I cranked up to 42X and noticed that my hits were now at 1 o'clock, about 1 inch away. I was fascinated by that and wound the scope up and down several times to make sure I was not hallucinating or just screwing up. It was solidly reproducible, again and again.

I have not been able to discern this on my other scopes, try as I may. I have talked to some benchresters and some of them like non-variable scopes for that exact issue. March makes a single magnification scope with an adjustable eyepiece specifically for that reason; the 1.5X zoom eyepiece is immune to any shift.

I would say that for the vast majority of users and scopes, this is a non-issue but as the note explains, that is one of the challenges of manufacturing a dual reticle, especially in an 10X zoom and after looking through a few of their 1-10X24 Shorty with DR-1, I think they have pulled it off.

 

[gregsjt]

Would that shift be enough to cause a miss at say 500 yards? If you were in a hunting situation and had the scope turned down to its lowest power and then increased to max would that be enough shift to cause a miss assuming everything else was correct?

 

[acourvil]

There is a name for scopes where POA/POI changes with magnification: defective

 

[NC_Libertarian]

There is a name for scopes where POA/POI changes with magnification: defective

I work with several people that are world-class experts on lens manufacture, and I asked them about this subject. This is what they told me:

Every variable power SFP scope using an erector to change magnification experiences the shift. Period. It is the nature of the very complex and precise manufacturing and assembly requirements to build such a scope. Only perfection can avoid this, and perfection does not exist.

There are so many parts and assemblies requiring very high precision that stacking tolerances will come into play. Only a perfectly-built and assembled SFP scope can have no shift. There is no such thing ever in human history as something being manufactured and assembled to perfection, and certainly nothing as complex as a variable power rifle scope.

That does not mean that, due to either high effort or extreme luck, scopes can't be built to have such minimal shift that a human eye/brain cannot measure it. But just because a human can't see it does not mean it is not there. It is there.

The dual reticle design is particularly problematic because, if any POI/POA shift occurs, it will only occur with the SFP reticle. This shift may be so small that, by itself as a SFP-only reticle, a human would not detect it. But when the 2 reticles are overlayed, even a very small shift would be easily noticed due to the overlay of the two reticles shifting in relation to each other. This is what March is talking about in those articles, but the person writing the article did not express it in sufficient detail IMO.

 

[theLBC]

i would love that march scope for my air rifle (10yd parallax) but can't afford it. =/

 

[gxer]

Only a perfectly-built and assembled SFP scope can have no shift.

True that, also only a perfectly built tape measure can be used to measure the exact diameter of an atom.

The Shorty is an engineering masterpiece but it's obvious the design isn't for everyone. DEON was able to produce a scope with such tight tolerance that at 10x zoom there's no human perceivable POA shift between the FFP and the SFP. I'm sure if you go after the POA with a perfectly built tape measure you will find some shift between magnifications but I think at this point you may find more shift with your POI due to the rifle and the ammo.

 

[NC_Libertarian]

True that, also only a perfectly built tape measure can be used to measure the exact diameter of an atom.

Setting aside the idea that an atom has an exact diameter (it doesn't), and that any measuring device can find an exact measurement (it can't), you can't use a measuring device (no matter how accurate/precise) with a smaller resolution than the object you are trying to measure to get any meaningful measurement. Since an atom is multiple orders of magnitude smaller than any tape measure resolution, it can't be done.

The Shorty is an engineering masterpiece but it's obvious the design isn't for everyone. DEON was able to produce a scope with such tight tolerance that at 10x zoom there's no human perceivable POA shift between the FFP and the SFP. I'm sure if you go after the POA with a perfectly built tape measure you will find some shift between magnifications but I think at this point you may find more shift with your POI due to the rifle and the ammo.

So does this mean you agree with me, or disagree with me?

 

[gxer]

So does this mean you agree with me, or disagree with me?

My comment was more on the side of accuracy is bottlenecked by rifle and ammo more than the scope when it comes to the Shorty. Unless you made a point on that. I can't say I agree or disagree with you.

 

[Happiness Is A Warm Gun]

Fascinating. I had no idea there was this issue with SFP scopes until now.

 

[gnochi]

This is what March is talking about in those articles, but the person writing the article did not express it in sufficient detail IMO.

FWIW, English is Mari’s second language at best.

 

[theLBC]

explains why the 2 reticles aren't always perfectly aligned.

 

[Urraynium]

Thinking about one of these with the tree reticle on a 20" 6.5 Creedmoor gas gun, something "DMRish" for steel out to 1000 that might get co-opted for hunting once in a while.

Torn between one of these higher magnification LPVOs or something like the March 3-24. Someone push me over the edge one way or the other?

Also I know this is a preference question as well but for that use case do you guys prefer capped or tactical turrets?

 

[NC_Libertarian]

FWIW, English is Mari’s second language at best.

Oh I am aware of that fact. Most of the people I work with on a daily basis are ESL so I quickly identify the situation, and understand the issues of translation that occurs. My statement wasn't any type of attack, just simply pointing out that a significant part of the article probably would have been better served if it had been a bit more spelled out. Nothing more.

On the other hand, I am impressed by the effort on the part of March to not only listen to its customers, but to take such effort to exchange deeply technical information with the public. It would be nice if other companies put forth even the smallest amount of effort on this front. Instead, most companies focus on marketing, creating a public image that is more facade than fact. March clearly either does not have the budget, or is not interesting in investing the budget, to create a competitive public facade. They would rather demonstrate their technical expertise to their potential customers. I personally am more impressed by this, though I know that masses are not.

 

[NC_Libertarian]

Thinking about one of these with the tree reticle on a 20" 6.5 Creedmoor gas gun, something "DMRish" for steel out to 1000 that might get co-opted for hunting once in a while.

Torn between one of these higher magnification LPVOs or something like the March 3-24. Someone push me over the edge one way or the other?

Also I know this is a preference question as well but for that use case do you guys prefer capped or tactical turrets?

Do you want to hunt at 100yds, or shoot steel at 1000yds? Those are very different things, requiring very different tool boxes.

Trying to hit steel at 1000yds is a pretty tall task with only 10x. Not that it can't be done, but 24x makes that job a whole lot easier. The advantages of the longer tube in the 24x also make the long distance stuff easier.

A 1x LPVO is a specific tool, produced specifically to provide near-red-dot close distance operations. It also comes with a number of compromises negatively affecting operation as you move out farther in distance. The Shorty scopes make additional trade-offs to save weight. If you don't need 1x, and especially if you don't need a LW Shorty scope, then there is no reason to make those sacrifices.

So what type of hunting are you talking, at what distances? Do you need 1x?


NOTE: While I own scopes in both categories, I have not personally operated either of the scopes you are talking about. So my statements should only be taken in the context of a general discussion about different classes of scopes.

 

[Urraynium]

What are the odds the DR-TR1 reticles actually ship this year?

On the longrangesupply.com website it says delivery in late November, no idea if that is accurate or not.

Do you want to hunt at 100yds, or shoot steel at 1000yds? Those are very different things, requiring very different tool boxes.

Trying to hit steel at 1000yds is a pretty tall task with only 10x. Not that it can't be done, but 24x makes that job a whole lot easier. The advantages of the longer tube in the 24x also make the long distance stuff easier.

A 1x LPVO is a specific tool, produced specifically to provide near-red-dot close distance operations. It also comes with a number of compromises negatively affecting operation as you move out farther in distance. The Shorty scopes make additional trade-offs to save weight. If you don't need 1x, and especially if you don't need a LW Shorty scope, then there is no reason to make those sacrifices.

Thanks for the comment. The gun (MDRX) is currently wearing a Kahles 1-8 with the 3GR reticle which I can take out to ~900 at the range (on admittedly large steel) without too much issue. It's an amazing scope; however I've found that the reticle's 1 mil subtensions are not quite fine enough for fine tuning shots on smaller targets past 600 and I run out of mils on the reticle on the further targets.

The 1-10 March SEEMS to solve those issues (.5 mil subtensions, dialable turret, larger tree, parallax/focus adjustment) while staying in a trim size and weight class and retaining the 1x capability. I really like the idea of something that's good from 0-1000 for IPSC steel size targets. Honestly sounds too good to be true and I'm trying to make sure I'm not overlooking an obvious downside that would be avoided by going up a scope class or if it wouldn't suit the intended role. If anyone is using/has used this scope in a similar role and has thoughts on it that would be amazing.

A 3-X (medium power variable optic? regular scope?) would also solve my main problems at the cost of size, weight, and loss of 1x. As you said, the longer stuff would also be easier with more magnification and it would probably be better in low light situations. I don't know how important those advantages would be but welcome people's experiences.

So what type of hunting are you talking, at what distances? Do you need 1x?

Only have 1 season under my belt so what I think is necessary is pretty theoretical/read off of internet forums at the moment. I live in the west where the distances are relatively far. I probably wouldn't take a shot past 300 yards though and chances of taking a shot at 1x are slim. I think the hunting part is just a nice to have, wouldn't be too sad to have a bit of loss of functionality here anyway.

I think the real answer to all my questions is to shoot more to find out what I want.

 

[rnlzkbrs]

On the other hand, I am impressed by the effort on the part of March to not only listen to its customers, but to take such effort to exchange deeply technical information with the public. It would be nice if other companies put forth even the smallest amount of effort on this front. Instead, most companies focus on marketing, creating a public image that is more facade than fact. March clearly either does not have the budget, or is not interesting in investing the budget, to create a competitive public facade. They would rather demonstrate their technical expertise to their potential customers. I personally am more impressed by this, though I know that masses are not.

They are doing it on purpose: https://marchscopes.com/news/5512/ . And that's another reason to love them. I wish more companies did that (not just the scope manufacturers but in other industries as well).

 

[Denys]

@Urraynium : Don @ Longrangesupply.com is well informed about March scopes deliveries and lead times.

 

[RayDBonz]

On the longrangesupply.com website it says delivery in late November, no idea if that is accurate or not.

One thing to remember - virtually all March scopes are made to order. With the possible exception of their service rifle model, they are not kept in dealer inventory. The long range supply web site has more details on ordering, etc.

 

[NC_Libertarian]

One thing to remember - virtually all March scopes are made to order. With the possible exception of their service rifle model, they are not kept in dealer inventory. The long range supply web site has more details on ordering, etc.

Europtic does keep a few in stock, but not many.

 

[StaMic006]

Europtic does keep a few in stock, but not many.

I just picked one up from Euro and they have a couple more as well as their sister company Scopelist. Scopelist actually has a good deal, which Euro will honor, where they discount the taxes and free 2 day shipping.

 

[davesa]

My March arrived today - zero'd it with the Leshiy 2 and so far impressed at how clear it is - for a portable air rifle the 10x is perfect and the dot is bright... much better than my Minox ZP8. I paired it with a ScalarWorks Leap/02. Seems like a good match - the Leap/02 is light but strong and should work well with the March.

 

[jgmartin]

I just picked up their 1.5-15x compact and it’s pretty awesome. Ideal for hunting.

 

[theLBC]

My March arrived today - zero'd it with the Leshiy 2 and so far impressed at how clear it is - for a portable air rifle the 10x is perfect and the dot is bright... much better than my Minox ZP8. I paired it with a ScalarWorks Leap/02. Seems like a good match - the Leap/02 is light but strong and should work well with the March.

dammit, that is why i want one, but still considering less expensive options. i just swap different optics on it for now.

 

[hitman]

This is on my list to get. I have the Gen 3 Razor but I like this reticle more. If it is as good or hopefully better than the razor with a better reticle I will likely get 2.

 

[StaMic006]

Very impressed with this glass. I wanted to wait on the TR1 reticle but I really think for my application the D-R1 will suit me fine.

 

[koshkin]

Very impressed with this glass. I wanted to wait on the TR1 reticle but I really think for my application the D-R1 will suit me fine.

View attachment 7733070

That looks like a nice setup.

ILya

 

[StaMic006]

That looks like a nice setup.

ILya

Thanks. the only change I want to make is the barrel. Faxon is the only 12.5 option right now in 6 ARC. Hopefully some other manufacturers will come out with some shorty options.

 

[smarcus]

Very impressed with this glass. I wanted to wait on the TR1 reticle but I really think for my application the D-R1 will suit me fine.

View attachment 7733070

Great minds think alike. 11 inch Lilja 6.5 Grendel just back from the woods.

 

[koshkin]

Since we are posting pictures with the Shorty, this one is a 1-8x24 Shorty behind a Burris clip-on. A scope this short really makes it easier to mount stuff in front of it even on short handguards.