I didn’t say March is the only one doing it but we are the only one doing it on Windage, elevation and parallax for prs specific use. Sounds to me like Burris had a good idea.
Rifle Scopes March 5-42 Gen 2 PRS Edition
- Thread starter Shayne Ward
- Start date
Good point on windage and parallax.
Speaking of parallax - how easy is the knob to turn? My old Steiner and Maven were crazy stiff, and my Razor 3 is a tad stiffer than I prefer. My ATACR and USO are right where I like them. NRL22 with a stiff parallax knob sucks.
Speaking of parallax - how easy is the knob to turn? My old Steiner and Maven were crazy stiff, and my Razor 3 is a tad stiffer than I prefer. My ATACR and USO are right where I like them. NRL22 with a stiff parallax knob sucks.
I bet you would argue with yourself if you could figure out WTF you were even saying lmao
Some forget that the Tremor reticles were mainly developed for the military to engage human targets, yes it could be used for other things as well. - Richard
In match conditions, just that one match, and a stage in the match prior where I was having trust issues with my scope.
I did some practice with friends shortly after, and did a troop line. I shot well, but timed out pretty bad. I still think it's fun to do reticle stuff, but in match conditions, I just use dry erase on my turrets since it's so fast.
I dial elevation and wind now, because it's so much faster to find the dead center of your reticle instead of finding it and moving over so many hashes. Does it translate to 30 seconds of extra time? No. But it keeps me more mentally agile on the clock.
I have no dog in this fight but I like accurate information, in no order and just a sample:
ZCO MPCT1X
Tangent JTAC
Kahles SKMR+
Nightforce Mil-C
Richard
Huh. Your experience is exactly opposite from mine. I’m dealing with targets randomly popping up all day at random distances, at random angles to me. I almost never get lost in the tree, but that’s all I use 99.9% of the time. And only down to two mrads.
I think when I use some writable ballistic tape this summer, it’ll make it faster and easier to dial my S&B 5-25 (H2CMR ret) with my AIAT. I’m doing that to stretch my brain a little. That, and also to be able to see the little buggers better, as that is the primary weakness of the tree…uncluttered visibility.
If I practice enough, I’m sure I’ll get to be good at dialing. I bet if you shot with just your tree for months you’d get awfully good at using it too.
I think it’s helpful to not just think about PRS. After all, the shooting sports started with hunting, with killing things.
Pretend one is equally competent using both a tree and dialing. In what I’m calling field conditions (i.e. shooting multiple randomly appearing/distanced targets in a 100° wide FOV, DMR-style, 500yds max).
In those conditions, I can’t see how someone would be faster by adding a step in there (dialing both wind/elev).
I use a ColeTac range card affixed to my scope. It’s SPIN AROUND, FIND (LRF binos), RANGE, REFIND (in riflescope), CHECK RANGE CARD, CHECK WIND/CALC IN HEAD (wind calls change, 100° FOV), MOVE RETICLE, SHOOT.
EXCEPT if you’re shooting a long way out, past my ranges. I can see dialing would help because it becomes increasingly hard for me to hold lower and lower down on the tree, as the dots both start to blend together and really start obscuring stuff.
Hence my idea of forgoing the tree past some arbitrary number of mils.
I definitely agree that the time difference between dialing and holding would indeed shrink to near-nothing in barricade benchrest-type comps.
Because ahead of time, if you know where all of the targets are, their elevation AND wind calls, their ranges, and have time to calmly mark their exact ranges in different colors on your turret’s ballistic tape & your arm board, well shoot, yeah, that’s going to be pretty fast.
I’m not saying trees are the best in all cases, period. Nothing is.
It’s just good to have a friendly conversation about these things, no?
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The great thing about riflescopes is the manufacturer can (and does) put different reticles in there, for different people and purposes. That doesn’t happen with a lot of products.
I use the tree all the time in matches. If the stage requires a lot of movement with 2 different targets at different ranges (so the intent being that movement and time are the stressors) I'll hold that stage all day everyday. Holding buys me a few extra seconds to make sure my position is solid instead of rushing into a position.
I think the dialing vs holding debate could be a difference in training. Ive been using the same reticle (Burris SCR2) for at least 3 years now and holding is second nature.
I think the dialing vs holding debate could be a difference in training. Ive been using the same reticle (Burris SCR2) for at least 3 years now and holding is second nature.
Holdovers are a skill set. If it's not a skill being practiced, it's not a skill that you will necessarily feel comfortable utilizing.
Yeah, that’s my point.
I’m then implying that if you don’t practice the skill and get good at it, it’s not the best thing to state that this unpracticed skill is no good. (maybe that’s what you’re saying too)
So can any of you math geniuses figure out the relative FOV gains one gets with the newer alpha wide-FOV scopes when compared side by side with some of the usual suspects..?
Like, if the FOV of a ZCO 527 = x
Would the March be like: x + 20% more FOV? (or more?)
As I get older (and closer to blind) I do see the usefulness of being able to run higher magnification because of more available FOV… it’s just hard to quantify what a wide-FOV scope would actually deliver. Being able to crank up to 20x and still have the same FOV as one is used to at like 15x would definitely be a plus, but if the difference isn’t that significant then IDK if it’s even that big of a deal?
Like, if the FOV of a ZCO 527 = x
Would the March be like: x + 20% more FOV? (or more?)
As I get older (and closer to blind) I do see the usefulness of being able to run higher magnification because of more available FOV… it’s just hard to quantify what a wide-FOV scope would actually deliver. Being able to crank up to 20x and still have the same FOV as one is used to at like 15x would definitely be a plus, but if the difference isn’t that significant then IDK if it’s even that big of a deal?
I’ll add one more point to the folks who don’t hunt. It’s so basic to me I forget to mention it.
Most animals move. Pdogs move A LOT more than most. They disappear down holes. Reappear. Stand straight up like a pole. Slink around low like a cat. Turn so there is only like 1”-4” to shoot at. Or only show a sliver of their head out of their hole. They are often scampering around, disappearing in the grass or behind mounds. Often you have very, very little time to shoot.
There’s tiny, tiny ones too.
In the regular course of fire, one is constantly disengaging from one disappeared target and reengaging another at a significant range difference. I found that I was damn near wearing my wrist out turning those knobs. Sounded like this lol:
Now, if you take a more leisurely pace at it, yeah, dialing is fine. Wait for those sunbather pdogs to just stand there.
I’m trying to kill as many as I can.
Most animals move. Pdogs move A LOT more than most. They disappear down holes. Reappear. Stand straight up like a pole. Slink around low like a cat. Turn so there is only like 1”-4” to shoot at. Or only show a sliver of their head out of their hole. They are often scampering around, disappearing in the grass or behind mounds. Often you have very, very little time to shoot.
There’s tiny, tiny ones too.
In the regular course of fire, one is constantly disengaging from one disappeared target and reengaging another at a significant range difference. I found that I was damn near wearing my wrist out turning those knobs. Sounded like this lol:
Now, if you take a more leisurely pace at it, yeah, dialing is fine. Wait for those sunbather pdogs to just stand there.
I’m trying to kill as many as I can.
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I would not pay $4-5K for a scope that did not have a tree reticle..In PRS22, you have 90 seconds at lot of matches, You might have 5 targets and 10 movements..Good Luck on the dialing.. I am friends with most of the Top Shooters here on the East Coast, not one shoots a straight reticle.. Justin in the NE is probably the only person I seen that dials 98 percent of stages, He is a BA and I am sure we will see it at Worlds. He however offsets that dialing by running attached maybe 99 percent of the time.. I do not see in the rimfire game how you can not have the tree with the games we are asked to play and the wind we are asked to play it in sometimes.. Actually...I HOPE YOU ALL buy scopes with the straight reticles, it MIGHT help my finishes.. maybe not but i know the tree is something I have to have.
I do not shoot centerfire, and it may very well be the case there that a straight will work just fine there.
I do think in Rimfire 1/4'' mils are enough on the tree, and a faster read when you are holding over, gives you a bit more open space to see your splashes.
I prefer dialing, will always choose it if the time allows, most matches here dont allow.. I bet 80 percent is 90...but is sure does make the 105 matches seem like forever when you get to shoot them.
I do not shoot centerfire, and it may very well be the case there that a straight will work just fine there.
I do think in Rimfire 1/4'' mils are enough on the tree, and a faster read when you are holding over, gives you a bit more open space to see your splashes.
I prefer dialing, will always choose it if the time allows, most matches here dont allow.. I bet 80 percent is 90...but is sure does make the 105 matches seem like forever when you get to shoot them.
Ah, a bag attached? So he saves a little time because he can flop the whole rig down vs. bag, and then gun, right?
What your talking about is a single hold over when you’ve dialed wind on the first target your not talking about holding pigs in space never dialing anything at all that’s a different thing entirely.
I bet the golden bullet winner last year for prs rimfire doesn’t think he needs a tree. He probably doesn’t know much about 22 rifle prs though…
That's not what I'm talking about. The only time I ever dial wind is for a mover. Just this past weekend I was holding .4-.8 in wind while also holding over. Funny enough the targets were pigs too.
For most stages that I holdover there are 2 targets, sometimes 3, at different distances. In those stages the primary stressor is movement so match directors typically don't put more than 2 targets at different distances. Not to say it doesn't happen though as I've also held over for 5 different targets in a single stage.
And I bet the World Champ uses a TT Gen 3 XR.. He, probably like the golden bullet dude doesn’t know much either..
we going to cut to the chase and just show our dicks next? I just threw out the world champ, kind of the highest.. where do we go from here? Maybe we can find out who’s dad’s bigger? Get them to meet and kick up some dirt? That should settle it..
If you were to make a prs scope, and it only had one reticle, having a straight is not a good choice if you want to sell more scopes.
The March-FX 5-42X56 Gen 2 is available with tree reticles such as the FML-TR1.
If trees are so incredibly necessary but he doesn’t use one how did he win the prs 22 golden bullet though…. I guess maybe not EVERYONE uses them like you so adamantly claim.
Just as an aside, I don’t actually think all this childish bickering reflects well on the brand anyway… and im saying this as someone with a pair of 4.5-28s and a 5-42g2.
I am not the one saying “most” top prs people use straights.. I personally don’t care what a person uses. When people come here they are looking for good info. Saying most use straights is incorrect.
I agree, but this bickering does motivate me to avoid a reticle that might give someone a kickback, avoid a vendor whose attitude I don’t like, and provided me two more users for my ignore list.
-Stan
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