Fieldcraft Maritime Sniping Command? MILDET? Ideas thoughts and concerns Counter Piracy Ops

[Jackman824]

ALL,

Give me your thoughts on Maritime sniping in a support effort to a counter piracy operation. As much of an over watch as a life saver. To many times have i boarded a whats known to be pirate ship not knowing what we are headed into because you can't see over the free board when approaching on a RHIB. I'm trying to propose a Team member be designated as shipboard sniper. No Seal training or anything although would be nice, but just regular ships company sniper for missions such as these. He could eliminate threats before things become too bad that you end up losing entire boat crews to machine gun or RPG Fire. So please give me your thoughts, ideas, credibility help support my case and help me get this program started. Thanks Snipers Hide!

 

[sinister]

Try to get some magnification on your machineguns (7.62 and 50) so the guys watching from ship can see if there are hostiles with small arms on the deck to be boarded.

Maybe get some magnification on your 25mm deck cannon.

Dutch Navy, Royal Dutch Marine VBSS (Barretts in overwatch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Woz2VraNRKY )

More material: http://maritimesnipermanual.com/services.html

 

[Jackman824]

Thanks for the reply I had thought about the magnification on the machine guns but with a boarding team so close and under trained machine gunners id rather have someone that had the edge and could take out threats without also endangering the lives of the boat crew. The boat teams are alone over there any fire from ships weapon systems would endanger the teams so the only possible solution would be sharpshooter. you have a team member boarding a vessel with 30 feet of free board cresting a blind climb not knowing whats up there if someone where to pull a pistol and shoot back down that ladder your team is dead why not have someone that can see that and neutralize that threat before something happens without endangering teams.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Couple of thoughts.... first would be that w.out some formal training or someone with a specific billet to shoot a long-rifle from the ship, (ie maritime sniping) you will have a hard-time getting sniper over-watch on the short term or with one of your existing team members. If your ship does not have Marines or Special Warfare troops aboard, there is likely only a very small chance of getting sniper overwatch in the short term.

That said, you have a very good point about being able to see above the gunwale of the ship being boarded, so perhaps a first step is to add someone to the team with binoculars and a mission to watch the decks and over-watch the boarding party -- someone who isn't a machine gunner. While not able to engage a threat, an observer can at least alert the boarding team and machine gunners if some bad things are happening on deck. Few things are more dangerous to bad guys than a good set of eyes connected to a radio! And it's hard to say 'no' to a boarding teams' request to have a set of eyes on.

Getting that simple first step in place will help determine if, ultimately, an armed overwatch is needed and make that transition easier.

I wasn't Navy, but I can suggest something about working in big organizations... and that is to get yourself an ally or an advocate. Could be one of your chiefs or an officer who oversees the boarding parties and whos a** will be on the line if someone gets shot while boarding a pirate ship. It make take some time... things move SLOW in big organizations.

But your idea seems to be a good one, and good ideas generally become good realities when good people get behind them. And asking (at least at first) for some eyes on your back is very reasonable and very smart.

Cheers and stay safe! Good luck and keep us informed as you make progress.

Sirhr

 

[Jackman824]

Thanks for the response I agree things need to start out slow and i think i was trying to get all this instituted way to fast. I will take your advice and start small because the military doesn't do any kind of processing fast. Thank you for your time and interest and i will definitely keep you posted on my progress. One day i hope to lead a small group of maritime snipers it is my passion.

 

[ArmaHeavy]

I agree with sinister, and Sirhr.

Also to add on to it, if you do not have Marines or SpecWar operators on board, then look into seeing what kind of training that you can get that will allow some of your fellow shipmates to be able to get some rifles in your ships armory, and be able to use them. I don't know, but it could be something as simple as simple as a professionally instructed class. You have both Marine Corps and SpecWar units in your area. Time to make some calls to them, don't take no for an answer.

If that doesn't work by some chance, then I can suggest that you look into getting 1913 rail mounts for the M2, and putting an optic on there that will give you a good view at that distance and not be punished by the recoil.

Carlos Hathcock did the same thing in Vietnam with a jerry-rigged scope to a M2, so the concept is still the same, but the difference is that there are now better optics out that can take the punishment, and it's entirely possible to fire with one shot or short bursts with a M2 at a long range and still get it in the vicinity of the target. Granted it won't be as accurate as a scoped rifle, but the situation needs to be handled somehow

For optics check out Trijicon or Aimpoint.

If your command gives you shit, explain to them that you're also increasing the effectiveness of ship's weapons too. Placing optics on crew-served machine guns helps out a great deal in properly adjusting fire, especially on Iranian speedboats.

Don't underestimate thee usefulness of the deck gun. A few well placed shots can make a difference, and the 25mm has been used to great effect already. Don't overlook it. Try to work with the team that runs that gun, and see how effective you can make it, in supporting your mission.

Good luck to you, and have a good one.

 

[fdkay]

This would be an incredibly tough nut to crack.
Your authorized allowance for weapons would need to be changed.
That, itself is difficult.
Your shipfill and NCEA ammo loadout would also need to be changed.
That is also very difficult, these loadouts are written for an entire class of ship, it would require a tailored loadout.
Just getting the match grade ammo would be tough.

The CO could authorize specialty training, and pay for it himself out of the training fund, there is "warfighter" precision rifle training available in AZ.

A possible way to attack this:
Your ships armory has M14 rifles.
Test fire them with match ammo under the best possible conditions to find the most accurate rifle.
Find out what optics the gunners mates have available. You may be surprised.
It would have to be mounted securely and not removed.

You could always contact Crane and see if you could get at least one match grade M14 or possibly an EBR.

To be honest with you, shooting at distance from one moving platform that is moving forward, up and down and rolling to another platform that is doing the same thing at a different rate, all from distance and expecting ANY kind of accuracy is a pipe dream. The standoff between your ship and the target ship is considerable.

Your lookout with the big eyes is your best defense. The GM's should also have at least one pair of 10X stabilized bino's.

 

[Get2theChoppa]

What you need is a helicopter! I've provided overwatch for more boarding teams...regular ship VBSS teams and "specialty units" than I can shake a stick at. I have more radios than I know what to do with and am streaming live video in various parts of the visible and IR spectrums...I can tell you exactly what is over that gunwhale, inside the open cargo hold or around the otherside of the superstructure, how many people are on deck, what they're carrying and what they're wearing...what you need to work on is a radio system that will actually talk to other assets in a secure manner (think SINGARS). When we do this right, we take a team sniper on-board who can talk to his team...and I've never seen or heard of them taking a shot, the overwatch is enough advantage to tactically exploit.

 

[sinister]

Starting with shooting capability and competence, does your command send shooters to the (Hawaii) Marine Division Matches, Pac Fleet Matches, or All-Navy West Matches?

This is a software-first solution to make competent shooters and watch-standers before trying to work hardware solutions.

www.usnst.org

 

[Ol' RD]

Okay, so what your telling us is the Navy has gone full retard in 20 yrs? When we where doing Drug interdiction and Coastie boarding party was over the side we ALWAYS were on O-4 or above with match grade M-14 and match grade ammo for that very reason, Chief and I would rotate as spotter an shooter, and yes, our command sent teams to the PACFLT matches. See if you can go to shipboard security engagement weapons school in San Dog. The part that suck was once we got to the gulf. Standing watch on the bull nose. Not the most fun way to lose weight. Mine watch / shooter. LOL! Counted a crap load of sea snakes never saw a mine.

 

[Get2theChoppa]

Yes!! There is plenty of regression (PC for full retard!) IMO, it stems from the ridiculous ROE requirements...trusting someone to make 1.) the decision to engage from a distance combined with 2.) Ability to hit what you're aiming at in close quarters to others. It's untenable to the higher ups!!

Let's call it what it is...there isn't a huge "need". Pirates rarely intentionally kill their captives, the ransom (paid by someone else) is far better than the risk of CNN covering a blue on blue engagement, or blue on white. Is this the way to solve the greater problem?? Definitely not!

It eventually falls on the country of the civilians involved to take care of...make no mistake, it's good to be an American, among others.

 

[B3dlam]

Like get2thechoppa said what you need is helicopter support. They are far more likely to be able to deliver precision fire on target while posing the least possible risk of hitting one of your team members. The last thing I would want to have is guys shooting over my head from a pitching deck while I am bouncing up and down on waves on a small boat while the target is also bouncing up and down sounds like a recipie for disaster. I have dont plenty of helicopter gunnery both precision and non-precision and can tell you that a helicopter will be the best option as they can deliver precision fire from a magnified rifle once you are hook and laddering your way up onto the boat and prior to that a 240 raining down hell from overhead is quite impressive and would do the job for you.

 

[pawprint2]

If you had the choice of weapons, those in the system and common, Mk19, much more range than most stuff, easy to correct, says hello when it gets there.