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Marksmen issued better M14 rifles in Afghanistan

#251
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

Just a question who here has shopt both and considers the M14 platform better than the M110 platform?

I have shot both and will take the M110.

Finacially I supply slings to US Army for sniper rifles. KAC just happens to be the platform they are on.
 
#253
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

This is one of the longest running threads I've seen on SH and I have not read every post - so I apologize to all if the question has been already answered:

Anybody posting/reposting on this this thread have a financial or business interest in the company that is producing this weapon system? Connected personally to someone who does or posting at the request of someone who does?

I do not dismiss everything someone says about a product just because they have a dog in the hunt, I just like to know and weigh it is all. Thanks.
 
#254
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't own an KAC anything... unlike you who can't post anywhere else, or about anything else but the M14.

I get it, we're all wrong and you're right and are simply here to educate us correcting the errors of our ways.

Maybe they should hire you, because you're fanatical about your love for this, and everyone see it but you.
</div></div>

tired.gif
 
#255
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't own an KAC anything... unlike you who can't post anywhere else, or about anything else but the M14.

I get it, we're all wrong and you're right and are simply here to educate us correcting the errors of our ways.

Maybe they should hire you, because you're fanatical about your love for this, and everyone see it but you.
</div></div>


tired.gif
</div></div>

Deep six.
 
#256
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's not rocket science to see the pattern where individuals that are financially & emotionally invested in KAC pounce
on everything I and others post about the modernized M14. These individuals never pass up an opportunity to attack. </div></div>I don't own a KAC and I have no tie to them.
 
#257
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

I have done that and it didn't do any good he doesn't learn.

I like how he completely ignores MedCpt's questions about personal acquaintances at the company. How he posts images directly from the company. He's clearly part of their viral marketing strategy which is why he goes from site to site with the same story and pictures taken inside the shop.

He's dishonest, that he makes clear.
 
#258
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MedCpt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Anybody posting/reposting on this this thread have a financial or business interest in the company that is producing this weapon system?

Connected personally to someone who does or posting at the request of someone who does? </div></div>

No and no.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's not rocket science to see the pattern where individuals that are financially & emotionally invested in KAC pounce
on everything I and others post about the modernized M14. These individuals never pass up an opportunity to attack. </div></div>I don't own a KAC and I have no tie to them. </div></div>

I don't own a KAC either, but I have contacted KevinB about their new .308 carbine
smile.gif
 
#259
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

Damn, I love my M1A/M-14 but come on.

An AR-10 platform is significantly superior as long as it's manufactured by anyone other than KAC.

I got to run the 1st SR-25's sent to DEVGRU waaaaayyy back when before it was a MK-11 or a M110. They were totally rocking. I got to play with several MK-11's recently and they are piles of crap (that can't be worked on at a unit level, "because the triggers are specifically machined to the rifle" coff coff ack).

If the Gov't would quit sole sourcing the MK-11 and M110 they might find themselves with a kick ass weapons platform.

Just say'n

Cheers,

Doc
 
#261
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

Ive talked closely with the army sniper school, SOTIC instructors, been to some military comps, and have been deployed as a b4 in theater supporting CJSOTF, I can tell you m14s are dogs.

They were pushed and RFI'd early on in the war when only SOF units had the sr25s. The Sr25s were such good systems (incomparable to the m14s) that big army wanted them for everyone. Now since that has happened they are used almost exclusively.

Just because you see a sage fitted m14 everynow and then in a picture from theatre doesnt mean thats what everyone uses and certainly doesnt mean that even the people with the m14s like them.

The crazy horse rifles may have been nice, i never used one and from what i understood considerable work had been done to them to get them to shoot. But for the majority. The SDM m14 rifles issued out in the war were nothing but box stock m1a's with leupold optics. The pencil barrels would heat up and decent groups would go to crap after about 3 rounds with them.

Im sick of the m14 mantra... people think it was the 1911 of service rifles, im sorry but its just not. It was good for its time but that time has long been over. People clinging to that rifle in my opinion are like 18 year e7s saying i can still fit into my class As from Ft benning (when its painfully obvious they are shoehorning themselves into their old uniforms).

Im not defaming the m14 at all. It was great for its day. I love nostalgic weapons, I happen to have many. But I wouldn't ever choose to take one to theater in place of a 110 or an sr25.

By the way if you talk to guys in the military that rave about their m14's chances are they barely shot them and just liked having an exclusive albeit obsolete weapon to take to the chow hall and flog their ego's.
 
#262
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

Hey all, very first post, looks like I found a good one to start on, eh?

Quick intro, I shoot bolt guns and my ar's and I work for a smallish ammo co.(More on that later) I have shot lots of distance and am getting lots of range time with fun stuff like .375 chey's etc. I want to start doing some 3 gun, I'm lucky that in idaho I can shoot lots of good organized and unorganized matches if I take the time and spend the money.

Ok, post related issue is this... I bought an m1A scout when our esteemed presidente took power, er, office- not really because of the panic but because I hadn't seen one for a long time and I liked it over the socom because of easier suppressor mounting. I decided to leave it in box until I could afford to put optics on it.after research between then and now as well as this post, I have come to realize I may well have bought into a project I didn't really want or comprehend.

I don't want to drop a ton of cash on a chassis that makes the gun way heavier. My pa put a troy on his socom, and its a heavy pig. I don't want to bed it, and do 100 other little things to make it shoot well.

My question is, should I just try to sell it for what I bought it for and get an ar10 style dpms or kac? What are the chances I could throw a mount and scope on it and get out of box 1 moa or close? I should note, I'm not an expert on this action as far as maintenence and cleaning. Pretty familiar with ar's though. Would love to hear your opinions on both, and if you have any kind of interest in platform, be it financial, emotional or whatever else, be honest and let me know. Thanks guys, seems there are some top notch shooters on this forum. Been a casual follower for years of this site.
 
#263
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: verdugo60</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have come to realize I may well have bought into a project I didn't really want or comprehend.

I don't want to drop a ton of cash on a chassis that makes the gun way heavier.
I don't want to bed it, and do 100 other little things to make it shoot well.
I'm not an expert on this action as far as maintenance and cleaning.</div></div>

Sell it.



On the other hand you could put the action in a tight USGI synthetic
stock, shim the gas system and invest in a real nice trigger job.
Learn to shoot the iron sights accurately before you consider adding a scope.

No bedding.
No heavier chassis.
No 100 little things to do.


 
#264
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: verdugo60</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My question is, should I just try to sell it for what I bought it for and get an ar10 style dpms or kac? </div></div>

If group size is how you measure success you'll be disappointed. But, if you can be happy with 2MOA and you're using it for steel shoots, carbine shoots etc then that's different. I know lots of guys who use the M1A carbines for steel shoots.

If you do go AR build it yourself. Figure out what length barrel you want & what platform - armalite or dpms - and then just start buying the parts.

If you don't want to build it yourself DPMS SASS, armalite national match / armalite sass, pof 308 I've used all of those and they are all super accurate.
 
#265
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

Cool, thanks guys. I have an M1 Garand for shooting iron's, I wanted a shorter one in .308 that I could put a can on and hopefully get 1 MOA or better out of. I had kind of a DMR in mind I guess, something I could stretch out to 800 yards or so, and still shoot stuff 100 yards and closer. Question:A post last night was on 1000 yard gas guns. Out of curiosity, is anyone getting anywhere clost to that witha 16" or 18" AR10 or whatever?
 
#266
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

... and by 100 yards and closer I meant actively moving and shooting if necessary, not off a bench. Something I could even use for a three gun sometimes maybe? Oh, and I already have a good AR.
 
#267
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

The vast majority of 16" and 18" M14s and M1As will run
a suppressor, but a few may need the gas system tweaked.
The 22" variant is best for sound suppressor usage because
it's added length burns powder better than the shorter barrels.

For enhanced accuracy, I recommend a medium heavy weight 18" or 22" barrel.
The short 16" barrel is rigid enough in it's standard weight.
 
#268
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

Sorry, my post was a little unclear. I bought the Scout for a DMR kinda gun, but I think I'm gonna sell it in favor of a KAC or a DPMS.Don't want to replace half the parts to get it to shoot "tight", maybe, for a while.

So, my 1000 yard gas gun question was for AR style 308's, is anyone close to those distances with that short a barrel?
 
#269
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

The TACOM M14EBR-RI utilizes a standard weight 22" barrel... sound suppressors are not part of the package.

The Smith Enterprise, Inc. M14SE “CRAZY HORSE”® M14SE SDM and MK14 SEI are built
with medium heavy weight barrels and they are set-up for sound suppressor usage.
Sound suppressor usage is part of the 500 new 16" M14s SEI is building for a
particular ARMY unit. These rifles will have standard weight barrels.
 
#270
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: verdugo60</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry, my post was a little unclear.

Don't want to <span style="text-decoration: underline">replace half the parts</span> to get it to shoot "tight", maybe, for a while.</div></div>

To be crystal clear... tight groups are easily achieved with quality ammo by shimming the
gas system, tuning the trigger and putting the action in a tight fitting USGI synthetic stock.

Tweak two areas and replace the stock for reliable accuracy with iron sights.
Find ammo that your particular rifle likes and rock-on
cool.gif




.

 
#271
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: verdugo60</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry, my post was a little unclear. I bought the Scout for a DMR kinda gun, but I think I'm gonna sell it in favor of a KAC or a DPMS.Don't want to replace half the parts to get it to shoot "tight", maybe, for a while.

So, my 1000 yard gas gun question was for AR style 308's, is anyone close to those distances with that short a barrel?</div></div>

You are a bit off topic but this should answer your question.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1906600#Post1906600
 
#272
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

Thanks H20. I see what you're saying, but I don't want another iron sight rifle, got the Garand for that with cheap surplus ammo. I want an accurate long distance gun with optics set up for close to medium(800 yds).Thus I think I'll sell the Scout and get DPMS or something similar.

My bad on getting off topic. My Scout issue quickly evolved into an AR10 question. Thanks for the link, that thread answered some of my questions.
 
#273
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: verdugo60</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks H20. I see what you're saying, but I don't want another iron sight rifle, got the Garand for that with cheap surplus ammo. </div></div>

Rock solid scoping of the standard M14 for military use presents a real challenge.
The M14SE “CRAZY HORSE”® M14SE SDM and TACOM M14EBR-RI utilize the two most effective methods of adding optics to the old MBR.
Civilians willing to invest a few dollars more have a variety of creative methods available to them including LRB's integral rail and an assortment of high tech stocks.


Your post has reminded me that I need a Garand
smile.gif
 
#274
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

If you can afford one verdugo check out the POF 16". After that I would consider a 16" noveske upper (armalite pattern) and building your own lower, or building your own setup altogether. Only thing I'd add about the POF is that it has a rather large rail system. I liked the one I used but some people don't, personal taste kind of thing.
 
#275
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

Very nice. Those POF's look like exactly what I want. I'll check other threads on reliability, but those piston driven ones seem like they would be the bee's knees!
 
#277
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

If you want a piston, go with the M1A, there is a reason Stoner never made pistons in the M16type platform.
I was in Europe recently and two of the customers with a M16 style 7.62mm piston gun had major reliability issues with failure to extract. Lot more issues than that, but basically the Stoner type bolts do not do well with pistons.
 
#278
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want a piston, go with the M14, there is a reason Stoner never made pistons in the M16type platform.

I was in Europe recently and two of the customers with a M16 style 7.62mm piston gun had major reliability issues with failure to extract. Lot more issues than that, but basically the Stoner type bolts do not do well with pistons.
</div></div>

Excellent points.

The M14 piston system works.
The AR DI gas system works.

The hybrid gas systems seem to be problematic.


 
#280
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


There is no way a M14 will ever keep up with a SR25 for sniper use. </div></div>

There is no way an SR25 will ever keep up with a M14EBR-RI for DM use.
 
#281
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


There is no way a M14 will ever keep up with a SR25 for sniper use. </div></div>

There is no way an SR25 will ever keep up with a M14EBR-RI for DM use.</div></div>

Do you have real world experiance running them? back to back.. or have you even run a sr25 platform system? personally the mk11/m110 is a much better weapons system.. one can jump from the m4/m16 platform to the mk11/m110 much easier not have to retrain on a old but new to them platform.. my experiance with the mk11 was a great one, never had issues with mine.. accuracy was well ahead of what one would expect from a gas gun.. now the m14 platforms i have run.. not such a great weapons system.. accuracy just was not there, not to mention the adjustable stock assembly even though locked in place, it had way too much flex in it..

imho (h20man) all you have done thru out this thread is make statements.. as soon as someone says the sr25 platform is better then the m14 you come back as quoted above and say the reverse, WITH OUT anything to back it up..

I wish that i could use a mk11 for work instead of the ar
 
#282
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

I was just poking a little fun at Tactical's comment about sniper systems because
this thread isn't about sniper systems - it's about the TACOM M14EBR-RI for DM use.

It seems every time a MODERNIZED M14 is mentioned someone jumps in and
champions the sr25 by comparing it to old school M14s... imho, that's funny.


You (roninusmc) didn't really think this thread was about sniper systems - did you?

Stay safe.
 
#283
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

no.. i knew it wasn't bout sniper systems.. yes the modernized m14s are nice.. but it is still a old weapon in a new body.. and as i mentioned i didn't like them one bit.. for the distance they were meant to be used as a DMR they were not all that accurate.. you got better accuracy with a m16
 
#286
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Honestly I think our new 16" gun is a way better DM gun too.
</div></div>

I'm sure it is and I can't wait to see how the new 16" M14s perform.
 
#287
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

H2Os profile Occupation: <span style="font-weight: bold">Water Quality Improvement Specialists</span>

Enough Said... </div></div>



I am an honest man and answered the profile questions honestly.

Enough Said.
 
#288
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

You base this on your own experience?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


There is no way a M14 will ever keep up with a SR25 for sniper use. </div></div>

There is no way an SR25 will ever keep up with a M14EBR-RI for DM use. </div></div>
 
#289
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

LRI, perhaps you missed this:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was just poking a little fun at Tactical's comment about sniper systems because
this thread isn't about sniper systems - it's about the TACOM M14EBR-RI for DM use.

You didn't really think this thread was about sniper systems - did you?

</div></div>
 
#290
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

H2Os profile Occupation: <span style="font-weight: bold">Water Quality Improvement Specialists</span>

Enough Said... </div></div>



I am an honest man and answered the profile questions honestly.

Enough Said.</div></div>

So the question begs how much time behind both systems do you have to qualify your constant comments as being anything but biased towards one system while lacking any real experience with the other.

For 6 pages you have commenting how superior you feel the M14 is over the SR25 platform, so how can you say you are merely poking fun at Tactical's post ?

I think people feel if you don't have the experience you can give you opinion but beyond you should move on... however 6 pages later here you are, cheerleading over and over the same thing.
 
#291
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

If one thing is certain this thread highlights the mindset of the different branches of service. I don't think I ever heard a squid crying over his rifle as long he could at least still use it as a big pointy stick.

Training? Whatever happened to field training? Have we become so freakin'soft that our brains can't absorb simple tasks outside the comfort of a classroom?

Has the service rifle advanced to the point where it can replace a soldier?

Hell...hand me a rifle...any rifle, then point me at a warm blooded target and I'll die a happy man
grin.gif
 
#292
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If one thing is certain this thread highlights the mindset of the different branches of service. I don't think I ever heard a squid crying over his rifle as long he could at least still use it as a big pointy stick.

Training? Whatever happened to field training? Have we become so freakin'soft that our brains can't absorb simple tasks outside the comfort of a classroom?

Has the service rifle advanced to the point where it can replace a soldier?

Hell...hand me a rifle...any rifle, then point me at a warm blooded target and I'll die a happy man
grin.gif
</div></div>

Well said
smile.gif
 
#293
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

I think that you are taking the re training comments out of context.....training someone all through basic and specialty training on a M16 platform and then throwing them an M14 makes about as much sense as a football bat. Ive heard plenty of Marines complaining to no end how bad the M14s suck. Id rather have a Mk11 over an M14 if the Mk11 had a bent barrel in country.
 
#295
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that you are taking the re training comments out of context.....training someone all through basic and specialty training on a M16 platform and then throwing them an M14 makes about as much sense as a football bat. Ive heard plenty of Marines complaining to no end how bad the M14s suck. Id rather have a Mk11 over an M14 if the Mk11 had a bent barrel in country. </div></div>

My comments were a bit "tongue in cheek" but there's an element of truth to them. Maybe its just me admittedly but I've never been handed a foreign weapon that I couldn't decipher in less than 20 minutes. We're talking about an M14 here not the space shuttle. Hell, Marines (and squids) complain about everything...its how we know they're still breathing
wink.gif
 
#296
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

I can't believe you think that your industry experience trumps that of a Water Treatment Specialist.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I guarantee i see more than you and I am telling you, they are not being used by any of the people we deal with... they maybe delivered that doesn't make them employed by anyone in the fight.

Just because a supply guy has one, doesn't make it a fighter </div></div>
 
#297
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Successful completion of M14EBR-RI #5000

15719_392879289775_758674775_3831186_7377076_n.jpg
</div></div>

Another rifle that will be fielded, then turned back into his armor so he can draw his M4 and ACOG back out. Why you ask? Because it's too heavy and does not fill its role. Hitting movers that appear for a second or two at 400+ meters, while maneuvering for cover is not something this does well.

A long slow sad applause for you and the #5000 rifle.
 
#298
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRI</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I can't believe you think that your industry experience trumps that of a Water Treatment Specialist.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I guarantee i see more than you and I am telling you, they are not being used by any of the people we deal with... they maybe delivered that doesn't make them employed by anyone in the fight.

Just because a supply guy has one, doesn't make it a fighter </div></div> </div></div>


Now that was pretty damn funny. Well said.
 
#299
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: victory</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another rifle that will be fielded, then turned back into his armor so he can draw his M4 and ACOG back out. Why you ask? Because it's too heavy and does not fill its role. Hitting movers that appear for a second or two at 400+ meters, while maneuvering for cover is not something this does well.
</div></div>

I agree with you on that but that's why god made tanks, planes, and helicoptors. I can't believe they didn't hire me when McChrystal was canned.
 
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