Marksmen issued better M14 rifles in Afghanistan

#301
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Like Tanks, Planes, and Helicopters are always where need them when you need them... please. </div></div>

Tru-dat. But that won't be changed by a rifle either.
 
#302
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Like Tanks, Planes, and Helicopters are always where need them when you need them... please. </div></div>

Tru-dat. But that won't be changed by a rifle either.</div></div>

No but the speed in which you can acquire and neutralize a target is important which is the point that being made when Victory said what he did.

Weight matters, there is that whole science behind moving mass, then stopping the mass that is moving as well as the weight the soldier is carrying, how far he has to go... you can't under estimate the benefits of carrying less, or even having a shorter barrel.

The EBR is far from balanced, far from rapid and that is something a person who only plays with one can never understand.

I will give H2Oman a free slot to the Fall Shooter's Bash, only caveat, he has to shoot a rifle set up like #5000 sans NV, and we'll see how well he does.

People can "think" about something all they want, doesn't mean what they were thinking will work in practical application.
 
#304
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe its just me admittedly but I've never been handed a foreign weapon that I couldn't decipher in less than 20 minutes.</div></div>

I think this is true for many people, but under high stress or tunnel vision, it will be instinct and subconscious reaction that gets you through. Those instincts are trained in after hundreds of hours of time behind a rifle, not in mere minutes of familiarization.
 
#305
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No but the speed in which you can acquire and neutralize a target is important which is the point that being made when Victory said what he did.

Weight matters, there is that whole science behind moving mass, then stopping the mass that is moving as well as the weight the soldier is carrying, how far he has to go... you can't under estimate the benefits of carrying less, or even having a shorter barrel.

The EBR is far from balanced, far from rapid and that is something a person who only plays with one can never understand.

I will give H2Oman a free slot to the Fall Shooter's Bash, only caveat, he has to shoot a rifle set up like #5000 sans NV, and we'll see how well he does.

People can "think" about something all they want, doesn't mean what they were thinking will work in practical application. </div></div>

I pretty much agree with you and believe me I'm a bit indifferent. Yes, I wouldn't add balance to the list of M14 attributes as compared to an AR10 platform. Weight I suppose is in the eye of the beholder, to a point albiet. I'm a big dude and my M1A is not factory nor is a lightweight by any measure. Its noticeably heavier than my SASS but not by any amount to brag about since the SASS is a heavy beast in its own right. Mass is a bit of a trade...more of it controls recoil better and allows faster follow-ups but if the target is moving you lose that advantage so its almost a wash. In the end when your talking competition its going to come down to an individual shooters comfort/skill level with whatever he's holding.

All that said, I think you'd at least agree that this thread contains more misinformation about both platforms that's ever been posted anywhere, and we'd likely gain more ground arguing Ford verses Chevy.
 
#307
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

I think certain people would like to make everyone think it is a Chevy vs Ford argument but really it's a 1959 Ford vs a 2010 Chevy argument and while you can certainly soup up the Ford, that doesn't make it capable of being compared to what you are getting. The only real thing you can say is, yes they will both get you from Point A to Point B, but all similarities end after that. It's like saying your AM radio is just as good as your XM Satellite equipped one.

M14
1959%20Ford%20Skyliner.JPG


SR25
2010-chevrolet-camaro.jpg
 
#309
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I will give H2Oman a free slot to the Fall Shooter's Bash, only caveat, he has to shoot a rifle set up like #5000 sans NV, and we'll see how well he does.</div></div>



The M14 in my collection that compares best with M14EBR-RI #5000 is my M21A5 EBR.

M21A5CHEBR-SASS-1.jpg


DSCF6808-1.jpg



If it fits my schedule I will take you up on your offer of a free slot at the Bash... The Fall Shooter's Bash takes place when and where?
 
#311
Re: Fall Shooter's Bash

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Texas, weekend of December 10th, you have more than enough time.

That rifle is fine... </div></div>

Honing ones marksmanship skills sounds good to me.

I'm fairly sure I've never attended an event like this, please PM me with details on your Fall Shooter's Bash.

Is there a link covering last years Bash?


 
#312
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

If I had to define where we part ways on this arguement is the notion that the technology advantage of the AR10 platform translates to the same level of performance difference between old and new cars. Big picture I'd agree the AR10 to be a better platform but not by any major leap and the technology isn't exactly new...its been around since the 60's (I believe)

I have a newer Vette that would simply spank any older Vette by an embarrasing margin. Not so with an AR10 verses an upgraded M14. I simply don't believe either platform will affect the outcome in the Stan at all. Truth is that the AR10 is just as dated and is not the holy grail but its the best we can afford right now.
 
#314
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

Battle a few things the AR system has over the M14/Garand systems

AR systems have true free float bbl system. To compare ARs of the 1960s with todays is not fair to older ones as rifles with free float bbls have far great shooting ability just like comparing a 1903 Springfiled with todays bolt action sniper rifles. Huge difference. The free flaoted bbl of the AR systems is why the M14 has all but disappered from National Match Comp.

M14s dont have free floated bbl and relay on pressure to get consistent shot to shot POI. That works fair at best. Free flaot is way to go.

ARs of today have excelent ability to mount a scope and do so solidly, thanks to flat top uppers. Old fixed handle ARs did not and where almost as bad as a M14 to scope. M14 scope problems have never been fixed because rec flexes too much. They have tried welding, multiple mounting points etc but nothing has ever been rock solid when it came to mounting a scope on a M14
 
#317
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Battle a few things the AR system has over the M14/Garand systems

AR systems have true free float bbl system. To compare ARs of the 1960s with todays is not fair to older ones as rifles with free float bbls have far great shooting ability just like comparing a 1903 Springfiled with todays bolt action sniper rifles. Huge difference. The free flaoted bbl of the AR systems is why the M14 has all but disappered from National Match Comp.

M14s dont have free floated bbl and relay on pressure to get consistent shot to shot POI. That works fair at best. Free flaot is way to go.

ARs of today have excelent ability to mount a scope and do so solidly, thanks to flat top uppers. Old fixed handle ARs did not and where almost as bad as a M14 to scope. M14 scope problems have never been fixed because rec flexes too much. They have tried welding, multiple mounting points etc but nothing has ever been rock solid when it came to mounting a scope on a M14 </div></div>I get it tac but you're preaching to the choir and I own an example of practically each era, exception being a fixed handle AR but I do have an early Colt Comp HBAR with a flat top that isn't floated and the comparisons between each are enlightening.

I have a new LRT SASS and it rivals a bolt gun in accuracy without question...well...the bolt guys would question it but that's another arguement. I also just built an M1A and pretty much spared no expense. JAE stock, USO TPAL (which arrives tomorrow) and pretty much everything I could throw at it. Make no mistake they can be accurized but you surely need coin. I can get fairly consistent 1/2 MOA out of the SASS and 3/4-1 MOA out of the M1A (with a MK4/M3). The difference is that the SASS is far more consistent. To get the same consistency out of the M1A you have to be cognizant of barrel temp and even how long a round sits in a hot chamber before firing. In fact some have wondered (in disbelief) how I was able to get that type of accuracy out of my M1A and its largely because I also own an infrared camera, and have had the luxury of thermal testing.

Moving to the "middle child...the Colt, it's more modern than the M1A and older than the SASS, factory accurized, yet couldn't hold a candle to the M1A even <span style="font-style: italic">before</span> I upgraded it. The point here is just look at the progression of these platforms and consider the R&D both military and civilian, aftermarket support, and advances in manufacturing technology that's been thrown at the AR...hell this platform should be able to shoot around corners and differentiate friend or foe by now, yet what's been achieved is a little more accuracy, better consistency, and better ergonomics. All good mind you and I love them but to my earlier points...

1. The AR is not the giant leap forward its made out to be
2. The M1A from a performance standpoint is not as antiquated as its made out to be

So in the context of this thread which has become nothing more than a few manufacturers reps fighting over where my tax dollar is spent, I think we're all off base when it comes to what our troops need. If we weren't so hung up on fighting "pretty" wars, we'd likely find that existing weapon systems are quite good at what they do and older systems like the M14 can still shine. I respect KAC and others and I absolutely drool over their gear BUT those systems aren't the real answer to anything.

Not trying to make this political but you can't separate the two if you believe technology is the answer to political mistakes. If this were not true, Vietnam would have had a different outcome. After all we had the latest and greatest rifle.

I served in the gulf and my son is there now. Believe me when I tell you that if I had the slightest confidence that KAC's or whoever's latest gadget would bring him back safely I'd deliver it to him by canoe if I had to. But the truth is that he already has everything he needs, except a government that allows him to use it.
 
#318
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I pretty much agree with you and believe me I'm a bit indifferent. Yes, I wouldn't add balance to the list of M14 attributes as compared to an AR10 platform. Weight I suppose is in the eye of the beholder, to a point albiet. I'm a big dude and my M1A is not factory nor is a lightweight by any measure. Its noticeably heavier than my SASS but not by any amount to brag about since the SASS is a heavy beast in its own right. Mass is a bit of a trade...more of it controls recoil better and allows faster follow-ups but if the target is moving you lose that advantage so its almost a wash. In the end when your talking competition its going to come down to an individual shooters comfort/skill level with whatever he's holding.</div></div>

You see, this conversation got started because someone who has never been in combat with a M14 is spouting off about how it is a gift from the heavens. Hell I don't care if the guy building them talks about how good they are, he isn't using them while getting shot at.

The weight of these guns is a huge problem in theater. You can go to the range all day with them and say it's no big deal, but when you have your vest, MICH, and rack loaded with water, ammo, radio, smoke, IR strobe, pistol, more ammo and frags, it is a huge deal.

If H2O wants to talk about his rifle and how it looks cool at the range, then fine, and his jibber jabber has merit. If he wants to talk about the merits of a rifle for killing bad guys in Afghanistan, well he doesn't even have a valid opinion, because he knows nothing about it.
 
#319
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So the question begs how much time behind both systems do you have to qualify your constant comments as being anything but biased towards one system while lacking any real experience with the other.

For 6 pages you have commenting how superior you feel the M14 is over the SR25 platform, so how can you say you are merely poking fun at Tactical's post ?

I think people feel if you don't have the experience you can give you opinion but beyond you should move on... however 6 pages later here you are, cheerleading over and over the same thing. </div></div>

I think it's pretty obvious that H20man's agenda on this forum is to act as a shill for Smith Enterprise and/or EBRbuilder in an attempt to get benefits and free work/swag/kudos whatever, in addition to building up his own worldview that the M14 is the greatest combat rifle in the world (from his extensive knowledge of the gun on a one-way range shooting static targets). As I already stated in on page one, he has been banned from several other internet forums for spouting the same BS. Here's a quote from another thread he spouted off in about how great the M14 is:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Smith Ent.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">H20 Man, You ever need anything you let us know </div></div>

Roger that and thank you.

I am looking forward to having a 16" SEI M14 built on my last heel stamped Poly Tech
receiver right along side the 500 you are building for a certain U. S. Army combat unit
cool.gif
</div></div>

Mission accomplished H20man!
 
#320
Re: Fall Shooter's Bash

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Texas, weekend of December 10th, you have more than enough time.

That rifle is fine... </div></div>

Honing ones marksmanship skills sounds good to me.

I'm fairly sure I've never attended an event like this, please PM me with details on your Fall Shooter's Bash.

Is there a link covering last years Bash?


</div></div>


hahah someone with a bolt gun is gonna kick your ass. that'll be good for proving your beloved gun valid for a DM role. for the weight of that queer ass rifle with all the bs on it you might as well carry a 240 b and hit something
 
#321
Re: Fall Shooter's Bash

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Texas, weekend of December 10th, you have more than enough time.

That rifle is fine... </div></div>

Honing ones marksmanship skills sounds good to me.

I'm fairly sure I've never attended an event like this, please PM me with details on your Fall Shooter's Bash.

Is there a link covering last years Bash?


</div></div>

Can someone please get this on video, I want to see this.
 
#322
Re: Fall Shooter's Bash

You guys are making too much out of nothing. These things even if they make it to theatre will either be loved or hated and quickly die of natural causes but I can guarantee they'll sell every one they build for the civilian market whether or not they're posted here. It's not like the SecDef is reading this thinking ...get these to the troops now. I too would be interested to see how one would fare in competition.
 
#323
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sickeness</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Smith Ent.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">H20 Man, You ever need anything you let us know </div></div>

Roger that and thank you.

I am looking forward to having a 16" SEI M14 built on my last heel stamped Poly Tech
receiver right along side the 500 you are building for a certain U. S. Army combat unit
cool.gif
</div></div>

Mission accomplished H20man! </div></div>

Thanks, but my quest to have SEI build one of their new 16" M14s
for me has just begun and it's far from being accomplished.

These rifles ain't cheap and I've sold off some rare SAGE kit and I will
sell off one of my bone stock Poly Tech M14s to help fund the build.

I hope have something new from SEI in Nov. or Dec.
 
#325
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

H20,

Please come and shoot the Bash with us. I have been looking at the M-14 as a precission rifle platform for some time and I would love to see one in action. I'm an old Navy salt my self and that's where I had my first encounter with the M-14. I've always had a special place in my heart for this rifle. It would be a real treat to see this new modified version of the M-14 rock out at the Bash! I would jump on this one man. You really are missing out on some great shooting if you don't take LowLight up on his offer.
 
#326
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tman300wm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">H20,

Please come and shoot the Bash with us. I have been looking at the M-14 as a precission rifle platform for some time and I would love to see one in action. I'm an old Navy salt my self and that's where I had my first encounter with the M-14. I've always had a special place in my heart for this rifle. It would be a real treat to see this new modified version of the M-14 rock out at the Bash! I would jump on this one man. You really are missing out on some great shooting if you don't take LowLight up on his offer.

</div></div>

Are there any 4/5 star hotels in the area?
 
#327
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

Rifles Only is in the middle of bum fuck no where.....please come shoot.....with that M14 of course. But to answer your question, nope there arent to many 4 or 5 star hotels in the area.
 
#328
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

Yes, just up the road in Corpus Christi. It's about a 30 to 40 min drive from Corpus down to Kingsville and the range.

It's a great time, and it's hosted by some of the nicest folks you will ever meet. Plus, you will learn a ton about the sport. I've been shooting for some time and have attended my fair share of matches but I never fail to learn a lesson or two at Rifles Only.
 
#329
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

You can always stay in the bunk house with the rest of us poor sots. It's pretty comfortable, and as long as you bring your earplugs you will sleep fine.
 
#330
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...4 or 5 star hotels...</div></div>

Hey - there's a Holiday Inn Express in Kingsville. What the heck do you want at a shooting match?
 
#331
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...4 or 5 star hotels...</div></div>

Hey - there's a Holiday Inn Express in Kingsville. What the heck do you want at a shooting match?
</div></div>

I am a newlywed and she who must be obeyed may want to join me for my first ever competition shoot.
 
#333
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am a newlywed and she who must be obeyed may want to join me for my first ever competition shoot.</div></div>

Rent a beach house or condo in Corpus and have her bring a girlfriend to keep her busy.
 
#334
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: km2006dmax</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am a newlywed and she who must be obeyed may want to join me for my first ever competition shoot.</div></div>

Rent a beach house or condo in Corpus and have her bring a girlfriend to keep her busy. </div></div>

That's a good idea
smile.gif
 
#335
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tman300wm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, just up the road in Corpus Christi. It's about a 30 to 40 min drive from Corpus down to Kingsville and the range.

It's a great time, and it's hosted by some of the nicest folks you will ever meet. Plus, you will learn a ton about the sport. I've been shooting for some time and have attended my fair share of matches but I never fail to learn a lesson or two at Rifles Only. </div></div>

Sounds good to me... I'll see if I can make the trip.
 
#336
Re: Fall Shooter's Bash

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lone_soldier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
hahah someone with a bolt gun is gonna kick your ass. that'll be good for proving your beloved gun valid for a DM role. for the weight of that queer ass rifle with all the bs on it you might as well carry a 240 b and hit something </div></div>

rofl you guys are a bunch of sweethearts. I don't doubt the bolt gun part but I still want to see how his beloved M1A does.
 
#337
Re: Fall Shooter's Bash

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lone_soldier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
hahah someone with a bolt gun is gonna kick your ass. that'll be good for proving your beloved gun valid for a DM role. for the weight of that queer ass rifle with all the bs on it you might as well carry a 240 b and hit something </div></div>

rofl you guys are a bunch of sweethearts. I don't doubt the bolt gun part but I still want to see how his beloved M1A does.

</div></div>

Just to be clear... I don't own any M1As.

Seeing how well me and my modernized M14s perform in a competition does interest me as well.
 
#338
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Battle, read and understood. May your son have a Gun Ship, A10 Warthog, and multiple Helos at his disposale at all times in the box.

God Bless and prayers sent. </div></div>We appreciate that bro but thankfully my boy is a tanker and quite safe compared to some of those warriors out there. I probably worry more about other peoples kids.
 
#339
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

Battle, BTDT, things over there have changed. The Bad Guys have EFP's ( Explosive Formed Projectile) which will go right through anything. Cheap and easy to build. Thats the new IED and its a MFR. He has my prayers.

H2O good luck in match.
 
#340
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

This is probably one of the most interesting threads ever on the hide.

Lowlight thanks for the callout, this is going to be sweet if H20 shows up.

H20, good luck, as much as I feel the m14 (whatever series or retrofit) is outdated and not fit for duty given the alternative available systems, I do wish you luck on the shoot. Since its your first competition don't get too upset that you wont be scoring many points, just try to glean good intel from others.

Is anyone videotaping this? Id love to see some video.
 
#341
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 11B-B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is probably one of the most interesting threads ever on the hide.

Lowlight thanks for the callout, this is going to be sweet if H20 shows up.

H20, good luck, as much as I feel the m14 (whatever series or retrofit) is outdated and not fit for duty given the alternative available systems, I do wish you luck on the shoot.

Since its your first competition don't get too upset that you wont be scoring many points, just try to glean good intel from others.

Is anyone videotaping this? Id love to see some video. </div></div>

Thanks... I am making an effort to participate, but I have a question: what is involved in this type of competition?

Other than a rifle or two, what do I need to bring with me?


.
 
#342
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

H2O good luck in match. Why dont you get Ron Smith to send Frank/RO one of the new versions to see what they can make it do. That should answer a bunch of questions. </div></div>

I don't have any pull to make that happen... Frank/RO should contact Ron and see what can be arranged.
 
#344
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I will give H2Oman a free slot to the Fall Shooter's Bash, only caveat, he has to shoot a rifle set up like #5000 sans NV, and we'll see how well he does.</div></div>

I wish SAGE would 'loan' me this prototype stock for the Fall Shooter's Bash.

28912_396900699775_758674775_391107.jpg
 
#346
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

Can anyone confirm the following?

I am told that M110/Mk-11 rifles will be replaced by the Mk-20.

I am also told that the Mk-17 will eventually replace 18" Mk-14 rifles.

Looks like the M14EBR-RI, Crazy Horse and other 22" M14s will continue to serve on.

Comments:
 
#348
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can anyone confirm the following?

I am told that M110/Mk-11 rifles will be replaced by the Mk-20.

I am also told that the Mk-17 will eventually replace 18" Mk-14 rifles.

Looks like the M14EBR-RI, Crazy Horse and other 22" M14s will continue to serve on.

Comments:</div></div>

I would not bet on that, and would bet against frankly...
 
#349
Re: Marksmen issued better rifles in Afghanistan

His non-associate - associates gave him the inside scoop... and lord knows, 5000 units sold they are never wrong.

The M14 is IN ! those other, silly SR25 types, are OUT !

They are being replaced by the FN series... so eat it SRs
wink.gif


Long live the M14,<span style="font-style: italic"> just like good ole dad used.</span>
 
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