Match Directors, Promote it smarter,

[Lowlight]

Been having a few conversations about matches moving forward. The groups pulling out of the series to go Nomad and also to instructors who bridge the training gap with competition.

One area of discussion was a few of the matches failing to fill up or getting canceled because of lack of attendance. Generally speaking better matches tend to sell themselves, but do you do need a certain amount of promotion to peak interest and maintain that interest going forward. You can have a great area, subpar stages and still make next year better than the previous one by adapting. That often requires promotion or at least a certain level of communication with your audience.

One area I think can help is cross promotion with instructors.

By offering up stages or skills to practice for people they are getting prepared for the test, vs going into it blind. Now I am not suggesting like some do, train the match because you have access to the entire COF. But instead taking older stages or at least some basic skills and coordinate it, either online or offline to help people understand the skills needed to engage in this type of shooting.

So promoting a stages a month, or skill set to further educate the shooter could only help. Doesn't have to be exact, you want some things left to chance, but overall you can help guide the shooter to be better prepared.

So as match directors as you are working on stages, and each match should have at least 3 unique things that help it stand out, why not offer up some insight to promote your match ?

Simple, post it once a month and let the shooters play with it, they may help modify it and bring it to a new level.

 

[anotherwannabe]

Thats a great idea that would help a lot of newer shooters (assuming they see it).

If Altus (using as recent example) let people know they would need to do 8 position changes in 90 seconds, single target... Or 6 positions changes, two targets far near 90 seconds. Those are things you could dry fire at home to understand if you have time to dial vs holdover, mess with a rear support bag, run a tripod, whatever. There were a -lot- of people timing out because they simply had never tried to get something done in that compressed time and they were making bad decisions about how to run a stage.

 

[Lowlight]

It's just a case of coordinating it ...

It's stupid easy to do

 

[beetroot]

Thats a great idea that would help a lot of newer shooters (assuming they see it).

If Altus (using as recent example) let people know they would need to do 8 position changes in 90 seconds, single target... Or 6 positions changes, two targets far near 90 seconds. Those are things you could dry fire at home to understand if you have time to dial vs holdover, mess with a rear support bag, run a tripod, whatever. There were a -lot- of people timing out because they simply had never tried to get something done in that compressed time and they were making bad decisions about how to run a stage.

Isn't it the job of match directors to throw curve balls that force people think on their feet?
If you know what the stages are before hand and can practice them all at home Isn't that defeating the purpose of PRS?

Or is it just supposed to be barricade/tripod bench rest?

 

[Lowlight]

All these matches are contrived today, the curve is has been reduced to letting the competitor use or do what they want in the spirit of innovation, but it's really just laziness

The idea to help people is to take the stages that high level and help people understand the objectives vs giving a stage that is supposed to test the shooters unexpectedly

Like name one signature stage that is receiving any feedback as highly sought after ? What stages stand out today ?

This is part of the point, and something I am glad to see you all miss, proves my thinking on several levels

 

[ma smith]

Basically there is a physical and mental 'choreagraphy' to shooting PRS, you need to learn the moves, the 'dance' if you will, around each type of obstacle...practicing the tango or whatever will probably make your score better.

 

[ChidJ]

Just for clarity, is what's being suggested that folks putting on matches post a stage sample? If that's the case, would you post an actual stage or just an example that incorporates skills that are relevant for one or more stages at the match? Is it being suggested that match directors post up stages for critique? Regardless, I think I like all of the above.

As a person who is generally at a loss for what to do when I step up to a blind stage and they say "engage", it would be cool to see instructors and top shooters do a walkthrough on video post-match of how they would address the issue. I see a lot of matches with highlight reels and top shooters get on camera and say, "great match today, wind not too bad, shooting ok but could be better *cut to montage and product closeups". That's not a dig on them. Just saying as a media consumer I'd prefer a demo to a highlight reel.

I would say that I prefer a stage that allows for you to address a problem your own way and I wouldn't call it lazy to run it that way. If a match director wants the people who showed up to play their game address a problem a certain way, I'm all about encouraging them to do it that way. But not forcing them. Want people to get off their belly? Put the stage in an area with low vegetation. Want guys to keep a tripod stowed? Make them move or put them in confined spaces. Want them to leave the straight tapered barrels, weight kits, and baby strollers at home? Make them carry it across hill and dale. But I don't like the idea that they can't try to go prone, use 2 tripods, and wheel it around in their golf caddy bag just because.

Unfortunately, many of the stages that I found most memorable this year would be tough to replicate at the facilities available to me. Maybe one day I'll have a dope personal range to build stage copies and practice on.

 

[sleeplz]

@lowlight , will you be hosting matches or series anytime that showcase these ideas?

 

[Lowlight]

My match is part of the RTC, it has been hosted by them for many years now...

It's a field match not really a stage match and if I do the SHC moving forward it will be a standalone match that will not fit any mold currently seen today. But it will depend on my training tempo when that drops

 

[lte82]

Thats a great idea that would help a lot of newer shooters (assuming they see it).

If Altus (using as recent example) let people know they would need to do 8 position changes in 90 seconds, single target... Or 6 positions changes, two targets far near 90 seconds. Those are things you could dry fire at home to understand if you have time to dial vs holdover, mess with a rear support bag, run a tripod, whatever. There were a -lot- of people timing out because they simply had never tried to get something done in that compressed time and they were making bad decisions about how to run a stage.

Exactly. If we know what to expect it’s much easier to train for the event.

 

[Lowlight]

It's not even knowing about the exact stage design, it's highlighting the entire process

You guys are honestly so fucking narrow-minded it's crazy, and just go to show why things changed toward the contrived.

This stuff takes effort, sure everyone loves shiny and new, and they will flock to shiny and loud until they realize it's just noise, at which point people move on.

Growth and retention are stagnant, it's not growing, it's just finding new ways to use the exact same numbers. This stuff is PUBLIC you can look up the stats and they are not good. They barely move, it's only a case of who the big brands are... currently it's Allison Zane, she is the only brand making noise because she doesn't fit inside the box. But really, the other guys are just maintaining and doing the bare minimum to keep that status.

It's about bringing attention to the sport, from the people in the sport who are supposed to be in charge of these Series...

Why am I getting asked about retention, about canceling stuff, it's because shit is not working and people who want it to work are reaching out to others looking for ideas.

Stop thinking of it as a test, think of it as a trailer to a really good movie... if the trailer sucks or doesn't exist, nobody will show it to your opening.

What makes your match unique? Why are we going to that match vs the other ... stuff like that

 

[lte82]

Isn't it the job of match directors to throw curve balls that force people think on their feet?
If you know what the stages are before hand and can practice them all at home Isn't that defeating the purpose of PRS?

Or is it just supposed to be barricade/tripod bench rest?

Matches should be a test (maybe test isn’t the right word) of trainable skills and fundamentals. IMO, using a sling is a fundamental skill, as is ranging and dialing on the fly, but what if you showed up and on day 1 the MD says “no bags, slings only, everything is unknown distance and you have to range and engage on the clock”? I think it’s reasonable for match directors to set the rules and expectations up front (especially with outlaw matches that don’t have common rules) so you know what you need to practice and what gear to bring to the match, or if you even want to go.

 

[jinxx4ever]

Matches should be a test (maybe test isn’t the right word) of trainable skills and fundamentals. IMO, using a sling is a fundamental skill, as is ranging and dialing on the fly, but what if you showed up and on day 1 the MD says “no bags, slings only, everything is unknown distance and you have to range and engage on the clock”? I think it’s reasonable for match directors to set the rules and expectations up front (especially with outlaw matches that don’t have common rules) so you know what you need to practice and what gear to bring to the match, or if you even want to go.

I think NRL Hunter series has addressed a lot of this with the way their match's are run. Unfortunately i was not able to attend one this year with my work schedule, but i've addressed that and will b able to in the future. Sounds like a good idea if an online training class showing ways the various stages in the PRS could be approached, would be viable for anyone thinking of shooting that series.

 

[sleeplz]

Does the rtc showcase the idea of cross promoting with instructors? I don’t think I’ve seen any vids or trailers with stage setups and how to practice.

 

[Lowlight]

they used to have a TV show, but not any longer

I honestly don't care what the RTC is doing, my match has no "stages" to speak of, it's all natural, you need a tripod, and they don't have issues filling slots

But more RTC matches are field style,

This is about the contrived series that are not filling up matches and needing to cancel shit, vs other things like the Hunter Series that is having no trouble putting people in slots.

The RTC does nothing like any other series and I am not a Member of the RTC I am just a hosted match there and I do NO ADVERTISING for the Cup... none, I don't even do prizes, I give my money back to the shooters

 

[sleeplz]

I think the matches not filling up has a lot to do with difficulty finding components and the extra costs. I went to 2 nrl hunter matches and they seemed to be on the low end of participation compared to the Prs matches of 2 years ago.

Plus, precision shooting is too expensive. 5k for a setup is tough to swallow when wanting to grow a sport.

 

[jre0807]

I think the matches not filling up has a lot to do with difficulty finding components and the extra costs. I went to 2 nrl hunter matches and they seemed to be on the low end of participation compared to the Prs matches of 2 years ago.

Plus, precision shooting is too expensive. 5k for a setup is tough to swallow when wanting to grow a sport.

My thoughts exactly. Most friends who shoot have had to slow down or stop altogether. No one is willing to dip into their last bit of ammo in this political environment to shoot a competition in fear they cannot replace it. And if existing shooters can’t shoot competitions, good luck finding new blood.

 

[Forward543]

I dig the idea of posting stages. How to/ what to expect. If you dont shoot alot, it gives more thought into how to approach the common issues.
I would also argue it is lazy to say you cant use something on a stage. If the MD wants to crush gamer gear that does not promote marksmanship, build the stages accordingly. If they cannot, maybe it is useful.

 

[ChidJ]

Something I just thought about sorta along the lines with @sleeplz comment is that its sort of a "buyers" market for long range competition. With some people paring down how often they shoot, they'll just pick the events they consider best. If you would normally shoot 8 events, maybe now you only have ammo for 4 so you pick the best 4.

Promotion is for sure an issue but I think maybe also if you are putting together an event for more than just your local crowd, your competition is pretty stiff.

For example, if I (me, not necessarily folks in general) was gonna travel to 4 events next year, you'd have to beat Mammoth, Guardian at GTI, CD Team Safari, and Nightforce ELR Steel Challenge for me to consider your match. I only mention them as examples of the shoes to fill if you are trying to draw match attendants.

Simply put, I'd wager there are just more big multi-day match slots than shooters who will shoot those types of matches. I don't hear guys saying "I can't find a match to shoot". I just hear guys saying "I can't find a match to shoot near me". Now that I've typed this out, if I was gonna try and run a match, knowing the limitations of my facility and lack of brandname power, I'd really focus on drawing locals and new people, concentrate the match down to one day which drastically cuts down on the total realized cost for attendants.

I would only caveat this to say, I don't run a match so maybe I'm talking out my rear. But I do show up and shoot so there has to be at least a little bit of validity to perspective from the consumer point of view.

Addendum: I think the cost of the gear isn't always the thing that drives folks away (although it does sometimes). Using Frank's/RTC's SHC as an example for no reason other than its been mentioned a few times, if a new guy pops on here and decides he wants to try that after seeing cool pictures, he will pay the match fee, which isn't bad, then pay for ammo which, for me was bought last minute for 600 ish dollars. Then you'd have to fly there, 700 bucks. Lodging, was 50 to stay on site. I managed to find a ride to the match from the airport but that'd cost a fair bit if you didn't. Then there's taking a day off so whatever you make in a day, add that to the total. I don't think these numbers are atypical. So in times when every step to get to a travel match is an uphill battle, its tough to swallow a 2k bill per match for the same ol' same