Maximum Range of a Cartridge

[hogfarmcaptain]

Hey guys,

I’m looking to get into the precision rifle game and I’m wondering how you guys decide the limits of your cartridge. I’ve got a Savage model 11 predator 22-250 and lots of brass that I’ve thought about throwing a nice scope like a PST on but it’s only got a 12 twist barrel which limits me to 55 grain bullets. I know these wouldn’t be as good for long range as the 80-90 grain weight, but I’d need to build a custom rifle for those as nobody makes a factory 8 twist 22-250. Either that or buy something like a 6.5 creed factory rifle. I think maybe I’d be better off doing that to begin with but it would take me a long time to save that kind of money up.

My real question is how many mils/moa of drop and wind drift does it take to make it hard to hit targets. I know that you account for those things when firing but after a certain point it gets hard for someone (especially a beginner like me) to read wind accurately enough to consistently make hits at range. This will help me determine the effective range of my bullet choices and might help me decide whether I can stay with a lower bc 55 grain for now or if I should move up to a different rifle before I start trying to learn.

 

[Lindley Machine]

Hey guys,

I’m looking to get into the precision rifle game and I’m wondering how you guys decide the limits of your cartridge. I’ve got a Savage model 11 predator 22-250 and lots of brass that I’ve thought about throwing a nice scope like a PST on but it’s only got a 12 twist barrel which limits me to 55 grain bullets. I know these wouldn’t be as good for long range as the 80-90 grain weight, but I’d need to build a custom rifle for those as nobody makes a factory 8 twist 22-250. Either that or buy something like a 6.5 creed factory rifle. I think maybe I’d be better off doing that to begin with but it would take me a long time to save that kind of money up.

My real question is how many mils/moa of drop and wind drift does it take to make it hard to hit targets. I know that you account for those things when firing but after a certain point it gets hard for someone (especially a beginner like me) to read wind accurately enough to consistently make hits at range. This will help me determine the effective range of my bullet choices and might help me decide whether I can stay with a lower bc 55 grain for now or if I should move up to a different rifle before I start trying to learn.

You can get a barrel for your model 11 in a .308 , 6.5 Creed,ECT... It has a standard bolt face. I believe criterion makes prefits but I would check it out.

 

[Long Range 338]

Either get a cartridge you feel confident in or just go shoot what you have. Wind is gonna kick your ass regardless, don’t let that get you down. Go push that 22-250 to 500 yards and once you’ve got that down stretch it to 600... You’ll learn more by doing than planning, just don’t go out and shoot without purpose. Have a small plan of what you are working on and pay attention to the details while you do it, it’s practice

 

[hogfarmcaptain]

You can get a barrel for your model 11 in a .308 , 6.5 Creed,ECT... It has a standard bolt face. I believe criterion makes prefits but I would check it out.

The stock on that rifle doesn’t fit me at all (I need a super high comb on my rifles) so I think if I were to get a new barrel I might as well get a new rifle. Thanks for the reply though.

 

[Steel head]

The stock on that rifle doesn’t fit me at all (I need a super high comb on my rifles) so I think if I were to get a new barrel I might as well get a new rifle. Thanks for the reply though.

build up the stock with tape or get a cheek pad/riser.

you could certainly run the barrel you have but wind will kick your butt on the longer shots.
A criterion or Shilen barrel swap is a breeze and they shoot.

I tried moving completely away from savage but needed a home for my 260 barrel

 

[hogfarmcaptain]

That is what I do now. And it makes things better. I just thought if I was gonna spend a bunch of money polishing a turd maybe I should just build a diamond instead. Maybe I’ll stick with what I have for the time being and start saving up for something nicer in the future. It’ll probably make me a better shot with the nice rifle when I get there.

 

[XLR308]

The savage will serve you well to learn on and now that many companies are offering actions with savage tennon threads there are quite a few prefit barrel choices you can choose from.
You don't have to spend a $1000 on a barrel to get what you need.
There are quite a few savage pre fits sold on here if you are looking for one just ask and I bet you will get more offers than you think from people that have take offs of lightly used barrels just collecting dust.

 

[Walker TR]

The 22 caliber bullet ballistics is going to kick your butt in the wind coming out of the 22-250. Not saying it is impossible to use for competition but you may get frustrated. I shoot with some guys that use the 223ack and even with them shooting the 75 grain bullets it is a crap shoot on longer targets and takes alot more effort than most shooters shooting 6.5, 6 or even 308.

 

[Sniper266]

while shooting 22-250 will put you at a disadvantage against the guy shooting 6.5creed; it provides you a fantastic opportunity to learn. The 22-250 will force you become better at things like reading the wind, simply because smaller variations in things like the wind will matter more.

There are a lot of factors that go into how effective a cartridge may be. To include the entire rifle system firing the round. But IMO if you can (1) dial the required elevation into the scope, and (2) maintain supersonic bullet speed to to the target, you can *quickly LEARN* to be “effective”.

For FT-R comps i shoot 175gr bullets from a 24” 1-12 308 barrel at a target 1000 yards away, my loads are subsonic at that range. The competition shoots 200gr bullets out of 28+” barrels and are well inside supersonic flight.
While im not the most competitive shooter on the line, im still effective in that i score decent and still squeak a few X’s in.... even if i have to put on 4.6 Mils of wind on because its blowing at 25mph. But its what I have and shooting is fun!

Shooting is 100% about TWO things. Knowing yourself and knowing your equipment.
If you can master these two things I garuntee you’ll be more than effective with what ever you shoot.

 

[Matches Malone]

The OP border line answered his own question in the question.
1) the distance in which you won’t feel comfortable shooting
2) the point in which the cartridge fails to perform.

These can all be various sub category reasons. In bullet performance it can range anywhere from stability to equipment where you litterally can’t dial and hold anymore. In experience it can be from equipment to having a closer dangers space in distance or ability to read and diagnose radical conditions.
Personally I think purpose built rigs should start at cartridge selection followed by components.

 

[Jack Master]

@hogfarmcaptain

in target shooting, a lot of shooters judge a caliber's effectiveness by the supersonic range. When a bullet drops from supersonic to subsonic is goes through a "transonic" zone that can do weird things to a bullet's flight. Most shooting in PRS style competitions is less than 800 yards, a lot of it less than 600 yards and stage or 2 that might be in the 800-1000 range. Of you can keep your bullet supersonic and learn to read wind really well, you'll do okay with a 22-250 to get started.

For your reference here are 2 data sheets. One for my 22-250 and one for my 6.5 creed for you to see the differences.

Notes
22-250 is zeroed at 200 yards for prairie dog shooting.
22-250 is 50gr V-max (rather than your 55) due to 1-14 twist.
22-250 50gr goes subsonic at 750-ish yards
6.5 creed goes sub near 1100 yards

Can you compete with a 22-250. Yes. As long as you are having fun doing it, jump right in! Just know, you might not be competitive with the other shooters in larger calibers when getting started.

 

[hogfarmcaptain]

Ok I didn’t know about the transonic thing. That makes a lot of sense though. I had always just looked at the drop or windage at a certain distance which made me think the 22-250 was equal or at least close to to the 6.5 ballistically. Thanks for the replies everyone. It has been enlightening.

 

[Walker TR]

@hogfarmcaptain

in target shooting, a lot of shooters judge a caliber's effectiveness by the supersonic range. When a bullet drops from supersonic to subsonic is goes through a "transonic" zone that can do weird things to a bullet's flight. Most shooting in PRS style competitions is less than 800 yards, a lot of it less than 600 yards and stage or 2 that might be in the 800-1000 range. Of you can keep your bullet supersonic and learn to read wind really well, you'll do okay with a 22-250 to get started.

For your reference here are 2 data sheets. One for my 22-250 and one for my 6.5 creed for you to see the differences.

Notes
22-250 is zeroed at 200 yards for prairie dog shooting.
22-250 is 50gr V-max (rather than your 55) due to 1-14 twist.
22-250 50gr goes subsonic at 750-ish yards
6.5 creed goes sub near 1100 yards

View attachment 7209718 View attachment 7209722

Can you compete with a 22-250. Yes. As long as you are having fun doing it, jump right in! Just know, you might not be competitive with the other shooters in larger calibers when getting started.

Great breakdown....supports the point I made about wind but also made a good point about the round going trans. Look at that wind at 500 Yards and 10MPH, double the wind hold. But other good points as well around use what you got and know your equipment this does not limit you from competing.....have fun

 

[Buckshot0351]

Keep what you have and improve youre handload game. Shoot it out playing with load development and technique.

 

[308pirate]

OP, with a Savage it's stupid easy to buy a new barrel chambered in 22-250 but with 1 in 7 rifling then you can take advantage of all that power to drive 75 - 85 grain bullets to speeds that will give almost any cartridge a run for its money in wind deflection and transonic range.

 

[Sheldon N]

Can you compete with a 22-250. Yes. As long as you are having fun doing it, jump right in! Just know, you might not be competitive with the other shooters in larger calibers when getting started.

Not sure the OP intends to compete, but just pointing out that for most match shooting you have to keep initial velocity under the 3200 fps speed limit which would pretty severely limit the ability to compete using just a 55gr bullet. Super fast bullets kill steel even if they are lightweight.

@hogfarmcaptain My 0.02 on what is the max effective range of a cartridge..... it depends on the gun and the conditions you are shooting in. Key things needed IMO:

1) a gun that holds vertical dispersion <1MOA (no high/low flyers, predictable dope)
2) the ability to see misses so you can make corrections (friend with a spotting scope, backstop behind target, watch trace, etc)
3) Wind conditions that are steady enough so that the shot to shot variation in wind drift gives you a fighting chance of keeping impacts on the target.

The third one is a judgement call based on how much fun you have slinging lead at a target in the hopes of hitting it. An example would be a 1200 yard target that is small. On a calm day with an accurate rifle you can go 10/10 on the target. Wind gets crazy the next day and you miss left/right all over the place because the wind won't hold constant and no matter what corrections you make you only hit 1/10. On those days I usually just skip the 1200 yard target and shoot something closer.

My guess is that a 22-250 with 55gr bullets is not going to be that effective beyond 500-600 yards. Probably the best/cheapest option if you want to shoot long range is a replacement barrel which can be had in the $400-500 range. Like 308pirate said, get a 7 twist and shoot 75-85gr bullets at something like 3000 fps and you would have a very effective gun capable out to 1000+ yards.

 

[Buckshot0351]

Not to fanboy to much because ive posted about this barrel maker on another thread but X-caliber is having a sale for a few more days. You can pick up a savage prefit for under $300. Ive got one in .223AI and it shoot great. Got it durring the last sale they had.

 

[clcustom1911]

build up the stock with tape or get a cheek pad/riser.

you could certainly run the barrel you have but wind will kick your butt on the longer shots.
A criterion or Shilen barrel swap is a breeze and they shoot.

I tried moving completely away from savage but needed a home for my 260 barrel
View attachment 7209347

Nuthin wrong with a Sáváge. My 10FP 26" 308 was an absolute hammer with 175 SMK's.

 

[Nodakplowboy]

Savage pre-fits.
Northland
X-caliber
Lots of twists to pick from.

 

[Buckshot0351]

Northland has some good stuff. If you dont have a credit card yet, you will.