Messed Up 223 Trainer Build

[Blacktical]

I recently purchased a Tikka T3x from a friend across the country. He contacted me stating he had just picked up a Tikka T3x and needed to get rid of it due to some unforeseen financial expenditures and knew I was looking for a Tikka in 223 for a trainer build.

Long story short, the Tikka I thought was a Varmint barrel is actually a pencil barrel. I found this out when I got home from my FFL dealer and opened the box to drop it in the X-Ray chassis I had waiting for it.

My question is - how screwed am I to actually use this as a trainer rifle? Can I use it and expect 1 MOA or even 2 MOA accuracy with such a thin barrel? Or am I forced to re-barrel now, rather than waste my time even attempting?

I feel as though the 223 isn't a hot enough round (from factory match munitions) to heat the barrel up that quickly, is it?

I should've explored the rifle's specs further before committing to the purchase but was offered a fair price to help a friend out in need and jumped on it. Hoping I can get an accurate idea of what proper expectations to set for this rifle before I disappoint myself.

 

[xringr]

I don't own a tikka 223 but have several remington 700's in 223 with standard barrel that shoot very good. Even chopped one down to a 16 " barrel and it really shoots good. 1/2moa gun but I don't shoot excessive rounds at one sitting either. Set it up and shoot it you may be surprised! Good luck with it!

 

[SlimySquirrel]

You might be pleasantly surprised.
Most Tikka rifles have excellent accuracy but with that profile the long shot strings will be out of the question most likely.

You can get pre fit barrels though, but that's an expensive option if you weren't expecting it!

 

[Blacktical]

The rifle is intended as a trainer, so while it will see many rounds it won't be something I expect to perform shot after shot in a match scenario.

The definition of long shot strings varies from person to person, at what shot count in what time period would one expect this pencil barrel to begin some form of POI shift?

 

[Marksman10x]

First, props for helping your friend. Second, I think you have a great rifle, even if it's not exactly what you were expecting. The tikka is a great platform.

The thin barrel will obviously heat up much faster than a heavier barrel, but there are things you can do to help.

Shooting lighter-weight bullets slowly will help keep the heat down. Using a slower powder might also help.

But, overall, I think it should still fulfill most of your needs as a trainer, especially if you're just plinking steel. I have little problem hitting 1-2 moa targets out to 600 yards (range limit) with hunting (thin barrel) rifles even when the barrel is uncomfortably hot.

And if you're not happy with it, there's a lot of Bartlein Barrels in stock with many SH vendors.

Good Luck

 

[celtics10]

My brother has that exact rifle so hopefully this will be some help. Accuracy wise, it gets 1/2 moa 3 shot groups with fiocchi 50 gr vmax, and roughly 2/3-3/4 for 5 shot groups. I'm sure handloading could get it sub 1/2 moa for 5 shots but we just don't have the time. Now as far as heat goes, when we were in South Dakota shooting prairie dogs, going through 12 rounds (we have three four round magazines) at a rate of ~5 shots a minute got the barrel very very hot. To compare, it takes 25 rounds or so to get my heavy barreled varmint AR as hot. So in short, definitely a shooter, but be mindful of the barrel getting crazy hot.

 

[supercorndogs]

All the mental masterbation in the world will never answer the questions. to answer them you need to take a hands on approach.

 

[wareagle700]

I’ve got a T3 Lite in 243 that will stack 10 rounds into a 3/4” hole. Another Remington 700 BDL in 308 that will put 10 rounds into the same sized group as if you shot them all through a cool barrel. My Tikka CTR (light Palma ish) will still hold 1/2 MOA after 15 round strings. The hot barrel doesn’t seem to hurt accuracy for all rifles.

Im curious about this hot barrel vs. accuracy thing overall. I wonder how many people just have poor accuracy and are blaming it on heat. If someone says “shoots 1/2 MOA for 3 shots but opens up after that due to heat,” is it really heat or just poor accuracy in general?

 

[black5.3]

Just shoot the rifle and see what it will do. If you plan on loading then do a proper load development on it and shoot it. Then you will know if it will suit your needs or not. The good thing about practice and leisure shooting is that when yoir barrel gets hot or you get tired then you can take a break or call ot a day. You dont have to shoot 30 rounds in 5 minutes unless you are training for rapid strings of fire. Put it in the chassis and shoot it to see what you have first.

 

[Blacktical]

Thanks for the input guys.

The plan is to shoot the rifle as is and see how she performs with this 'dreaded' pencil barrel first. Worst case scenario I'm stuck with an unforeseen expenditure of re-barreling the rifle, best case scenario it's fine and just looks a little goofy in my chassis with this teeny barrel.

I have no plans on reloading for 223 right now, so I will just shoot some cheaper factory match ammunition through it and see where it sits.

 

[SubOptimal]

I typically shoot at a pace similar to that used in IHMSA matches. 5 rounds in 2 minutes. That will have a barrel in thin form up to about 140 degrees in 5 rounds on a 90 degree day. For reference 140° F is cool enough to touch but hot enough you won't want to hold it in your hand. Call it a rare steak.
So, shoot 5, pause to reload the mag, set yourself back up behind the gun and shoot another 5. Rinse and repeat, unless the barrel really moves around under heat, you shouldn't have an issue.
At my local range we run 15 minutes hot/15 cold and my guns never really get hot.

 

[lennyo3034]

I've heard many great report for the Tikka lite barrels. However mine won't hold 1 MOA 3 shot groups.

Shoot it first, but unless its 1/2 or better you're always going to be thinking about that varmint barrel.

 

[Blacktical]

I've heard many great report for the Tikka lite barrels. However mine won't hold 1 MOA 3 shot groups.

Shoot it first, but unless its 1/2 or better you're always going to be thinking about that varmint barrel.

I'll shoot it and find out what how it does for me.

I had felt alright about this entire ordeal until this response, now I'm curious.

I need to re-barrel my 338LM before I re-barrel a brand new rifle, hopefully it shoots at least 1 MOA for 3 shot groupings.

 

[predatornut]

You could just sell it and get what you want. It would get a few more dollars as a new, unfired rifle.

 

[lennyo3034]

I'll shoot it and find out what how it does for me.

I had felt alright about this entire ordeal until this response, now I'm curious.

I need to re-barrel my 338LM before I re-barrel a brand new rifle, hopefully it shoots at least 1 MOA for 3 shot groupings.

Honestly I'm sure yours will shoot 1 MOA for 3 or even 5 shots. The question is whether you will be happy with that.

I think I just got a less accurate rifle. Bound to happen with production guns. Mine is also 7 mag and not .223. I'm not convinced the T3 is the best gun for a magnum round, and I'm sure the recoil difference has an effect on accuracy, although I have other mags.

 

[Servo93]

Personal experience here: My 223 Tikka had the factory 1/8 lightweight barrel and the thing shot phenomenaly. easily sub moa with factory fiocchi 50gr amaxs. Even if it was too hot to touch it still hammered without a noticeable problem. It took a stupid amout of shooting (think endless prairie dog town and a pile of ammo) for it to wonder.
Having said all of that I did replace the barrel with a heavier aftermarket one. Looking back it was not really necessary.

 

[Blackjack988]

Slightly off-topic but related. Did you have to inlet the bottom of the action of the t3x in order to use AICS style magazines? I'm exploring the same setup as a trainer rifle (T3x in a Whiskey 3 or XRay) and back when I used to have a T3 in a manners stock, I had to send it out to get the action itself inlet to allow the feed lips of the old-style plastic 223 AICS mags to fit. Is that still a problem with the new metal AICS 223 mags?

 

[Blacktical]

Slightly off-topic but related. Did you have to inlet the bottom of the action of the t3x in order to use AICS style magazines? I'm exploring the same setup as a trainer rifle (T3x in a Whiskey 3 or XRay) and back when I used to have a T3 in a manners stock, I had to send it out to get the action itself inlet to allow the feed lips of the old-style plastic 223 AICS mags to fit. Is that still a problem with the new metal AICS 223 mags?

I've yet to order a mag for this rifle in this chassis yet. I can tell you that the barreled action went into the chassis quite effortlessly.

Currently debating the $40 MDT polymer magazines and shaving the forward lips of the magazine to allow me to run 75-80gr bullets or just grabbing a metal AICS mag and calling it a day.

 

[Carl_Ross]

I had a stainless varmint and a stainless lite, they shot they same loads virtually identically. They wouldn't shoot like my custom Dashers, but plenty good enough to be valuable for a trainer. Sub-moa by a skosh for 10 rds with about every combo I tried, 50 vmax, 75 Amax, 77 SMK and any popular 223 powder. Totally not picky.

 

[missed]

How is the bolt lift on the Tikka? I want to buy a 223 for the kids to shoot. My 9y/o can run ammo through my Mausingfield with no issues. My old Savage she had a challenge with the last clunk for in the up cycle sometimes. I'm thinking about a 16.5" barrel so I can hang a can on it.

 

[Blacktical]

I had a stainless varmint and a stainless lite, they shot they same loads virtually identically. They wouldn't shoot like my custom Dashers, but plenty good enough to be valuable for a trainer. Sub-moa by a skosh for 10 rds with about every combo I tried, 50 vmax, 75 Amax, 77 SMK and any popular 223 powder. Totally not picky.

That's great news to hear. I had planned on sighting in the optic and really testing the gun out this weekend but the ammo I ordered didn't arrive on time and the weekend just didn't pan out with enough time. I ordered some 75g BTHP Hornady match ammunition, we'll see how it likes that.

 

[Blacktical]

How is the bolt lift on the Tikka? I want to buy a 223 for the kids to shoot. My 9y/o can run ammo through my Mausingfield with no issues. My old Savage she had a challenge with the last clunk for in the up cycle sometimes. I'm thinking about a 16.5" barrel so I can hang a can on it.

The bolt lift on the Tikka is very light, a younger kid shouldn't have too much trouble flicking the bolt up.

If you want to fix the savage instead of buying an entire rifle grab a PTG bolt body and a Stockades bolt lift kit. Those will remove the hard bolt lift on the savage action and the bolt body will remove the slack at the fully extended bolt pull that can cause a hang up in driving the bolt home on savage actions.

But, we always want an excuse to buy another rifle, so we can forget I said that. lol

 

[missed]

The bolt lift on the Tikka is very light, a younger kid shouldn't have too much trouble flicking the bolt up.

If you want to fix the savage instead of buying an entire rifle grab a PTG bolt body and a Stockades bolt lift kit. Those will remove the hard bolt lift on the savage action and the bolt body will remove the slack at the fully extended bolt pull that can cause a hang up in driving the bolt home on savage actions.

But, we always want an excuse to buy another rifle, so we can forget I said that. lol

The Savage was a lefty also, I had one of the newer ones with the cocking indicator. You couldn't put the lift kit on it without additional parts that were on infinite backorder. I was going to build the parts, but sold it, bought a Mausingfield. Now I need a right hand rifle for her. I'm thinking about the T3 in a Boyd's AT1 stock and build a mini chassis that will take AICS magazine