Learned all I know about the Norden bombsight from reading Catch-22. That's not a ride I'd want to be on. The way Heller describes it, damn.
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Maggie’s Military Jeopardy
- Thread starter Gunfighter14e2
- Start date
Agreed, exponentially. In case my previous "really cool" statement (referencing Sirhr's post) wasn't clear my flights were this week, not wartime.
Yeah, I would not have wanted to fly the plane on a real bomb run with one. Now that you've been in the glass nose, so to speak... those guys had big balls of steel.
What was cool was to get to actually look through and 'adjust' one that was set up with a video display under it. I'd seen them under glass, read the descriptions a ton of times. But never actually 'touched' one to see how the aiming knobs and the reticle, etc. worked. Interestingly enough, the display was set up in a small military museum adjacent to the American Cemetery in Cambridge. Where a lot of the interred were bomber crews and where there were a lot more names on the wall... of those who were never seen again. I thought it a bit unusual to see anything resembling an interactive exhibit at a cemetery. But this one hammered home in grim reality what those bomber crews had to endure.
Catch-22? Yeah! The insane thing was they kept going out and doing their jobs. But that's what they did. How many of today's snowflakes would handle being sent to 6 weeks accelerated basic, sent to 3 more weeks aerial gunnery school. Then getting assigned to a ball-turret with not a single say in the matter. Imagine how 'triggered' that would make them. Yet these guys sucked it up and did it. Probably because the job had to be done... and it would be harder to 'not' go with the crew that was your family. That said, what is the old saying? There is a fine line between brave and crazy?
It also hammers home why Curtis LeMay switched from precision bombing, which was an Air Corps Religion going into WW2, to area bombing under the British model. LeMay was an innovator who cared deeply about aircrews. He was the only commander (later Theater Commander) who insisted that his units' accomplishments be measured in "Units of Target Destruction per Aircrew lost." In other words, "I don't care if you destroyed an entire aircraft plant if you wiped out a squadron to do it.... that was a bad mission." He insisted that the more horrific his raids, the faster the war would end... and the faster his crews would come home. He didn't give a rats ass about the people 'on the ground.' His view was that if they didn't want their cities razed, they would surrender. And his aircrews would be safe.
So, yeah, nothing cool about flak or fighters or (later) AAA rockets... but to put one's hands on a piece of history and really 'get it....' Yeah. Pretty cool.
Cheers,
Sirhr
P.S. On the subject of 'part of the family.' When LeMay scheduled the first firebomb raids against Japan, he stripped out all the guns, ammo and gunners from his B29's. The theory was that they were flying low, the Japanese had heavy flak, but no light AAA. The bombers were going to be at a 'surprise' altiitude. Fighters would not be able to respond as Japan had virtually no night-fighter capability. And the weight savings would allow more bombs and Napalm canisters/incendiaries. He was right. IIRC, the raid lost 5 planes. And burned 16 square miles of Tokyo to Nothing. Moonscape. But the air crews completely rebelled. Not because they thought they needed the guns, but the gunners and the rest of the crew utterly were apoplectic that they could not fly together. Later, LeMay put the crews back together, even though there was not much for the gunners to do for the subsequent raids.
What was cool was to get to actually look through and 'adjust' one that was set up with a video display under it. I'd seen them under glass, read the descriptions a ton of times. But never actually 'touched' one to see how the aiming knobs and the reticle, etc. worked. Interestingly enough, the display was set up in a small military museum adjacent to the American Cemetery in Cambridge. Where a lot of the interred were bomber crews and where there were a lot more names on the wall... of those who were never seen again. I thought it a bit unusual to see anything resembling an interactive exhibit at a cemetery. But this one hammered home in grim reality what those bomber crews had to endure.
Catch-22? Yeah! The insane thing was they kept going out and doing their jobs. But that's what they did. How many of today's snowflakes would handle being sent to 6 weeks accelerated basic, sent to 3 more weeks aerial gunnery school. Then getting assigned to a ball-turret with not a single say in the matter. Imagine how 'triggered' that would make them. Yet these guys sucked it up and did it. Probably because the job had to be done... and it would be harder to 'not' go with the crew that was your family. That said, what is the old saying? There is a fine line between brave and crazy?
It also hammers home why Curtis LeMay switched from precision bombing, which was an Air Corps Religion going into WW2, to area bombing under the British model. LeMay was an innovator who cared deeply about aircrews. He was the only commander (later Theater Commander) who insisted that his units' accomplishments be measured in "Units of Target Destruction per Aircrew lost." In other words, "I don't care if you destroyed an entire aircraft plant if you wiped out a squadron to do it.... that was a bad mission." He insisted that the more horrific his raids, the faster the war would end... and the faster his crews would come home. He didn't give a rats ass about the people 'on the ground.' His view was that if they didn't want their cities razed, they would surrender. And his aircrews would be safe.
So, yeah, nothing cool about flak or fighters or (later) AAA rockets... but to put one's hands on a piece of history and really 'get it....' Yeah. Pretty cool.
Cheers,
Sirhr
P.S. On the subject of 'part of the family.' When LeMay scheduled the first firebomb raids against Japan, he stripped out all the guns, ammo and gunners from his B29's. The theory was that they were flying low, the Japanese had heavy flak, but no light AAA. The bombers were going to be at a 'surprise' altiitude. Fighters would not be able to respond as Japan had virtually no night-fighter capability. And the weight savings would allow more bombs and Napalm canisters/incendiaries. He was right. IIRC, the raid lost 5 planes. And burned 16 square miles of Tokyo to Nothing. Moonscape. But the air crews completely rebelled. Not because they thought they needed the guns, but the gunners and the rest of the crew utterly were apoplectic that they could not fly together. Later, LeMay put the crews back together, even though there was not much for the gunners to do for the subsequent raids.
During air and sea battles in the Pacific, what was the reward for recovering a downed pilot? Bonus point, Where did it come from?
These "ships" played integral roles in the D-Day landings. Some were used as pontoon and cargo ships, some as floating freezers in the tropics and even barricade ships. As traditional building materials were scarce, what were they made from?
What are concrete barges. Some are still in use as a breakwater in Powell River, British Columbia.
These rather large devices were used by the Navy to pinpoint the location of Soviet (and other's) submarines during their communications.
Sorry, while blood chits were carried by allied and axis forces, the correct answer is " What is Ice cream". Allied forces who recovered a downed pilot were given a ration of the most valuable commodity in the pacific fleet at the time. Ice Cream was made on dedicated freezer and storage ships for the troops but the supply was extremely limited so it was rationed heavily.
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Not sure that was the technical term but do you know why they were called mullberry's? Final Jeopardy....
I think I read it in Rankin's book "Churchill's Wizards..." But I can't for the life of me remember. I know there were all kinds of names for the harbors and bridges. Mulberry's, Gooseberry's, Whales, etc. But don't know the origin....
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTT.
I lose final Jeopardy!
Cheers,
Sirhr
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTT.
I lose final Jeopardy!
Cheers,
Sirhr
On an unrelated note.... Who are the "Ice Cream Boys" and how did they get their name?
Cheers,
Sirhr
Cheers,
Sirhr
Would this be the guys that setup a floating ice cream factory for troops in WW2? To boost morale, provide a treat from home?
Am I right?
a blood chit was a scarf given to pilots which said (in Chinese) "give this man aid and comfort he has come to fight for us"
most pilots sewed it to the back of their jackets and some sewed it on the inside. I think the Flying Tigers have a museum
in Kissimee, Florida........I would love to have one of these but probably too fragile to wear......
Were they the ones that were on the frigate/destroyer that was sinking and emptied the ships freezer of ice cream? When found by rescuing ship all of the hands wer sitting on the deck eating ice cream with their hands? I forget the ship name but I distinctly remember the occasion.
We used to refer to them as "Bull Rings" (as in bull fighting). Used to be one on Silverstrand beach in San Diego, and I used to work near one in Rota, Spain many moons ago...
Military Operations for 200........Eagle Claw or Evening Light
400.........Gold (1954)
600.........Pluto (1961)
800.........Pegasus (1968)
1000........Neptune Spear (2011)
Daily Double...Ranch Hand or Trail Dust
400.........Gold (1954)
600.........Pluto (1961)
800.........Pegasus (1968)
1000........Neptune Spear (2011)
Daily Double...Ranch Hand or Trail Dust
Ranch hand, was clearing foliage with ---2-4-5-T, AKA agent orange, which was but a minor change of -2-4-D used most on farms in the US
What was operation Plow boy?
What was operation Eldest son?
Plowboy was the use of high explosives to fracture salt deposits in Louisiana?
Eldest Son was the placement of exploding ammo into the general ammo supply of communist troops in SEA.
Eldest Son was the placement of exploding ammo into the general ammo supply of communist troops in SEA.
Azorian was the raising of a soviet sub.
Neptune Spear was killing Bin Laden.
Eagle Claw was Iran hostage Rescue attempt
Pegasus was the support of firebase at Khe Sahn
Pluto was Bay of Pigs.
Pepes Project was the action against Pablo Escobar
And, last, Ice Cream Boys has an Airborne connection. No morale operations... except among the ice cream boys themselves. They had high morale.
Cheers,
Sirhr
P.S. My memory is now completely drained. And there are some there that I don't know without googling... and I thought that was not fair in this thread.
Neptune Spear was killing Bin Laden.
Eagle Claw was Iran hostage Rescue attempt
Pegasus was the support of firebase at Khe Sahn
Pluto was Bay of Pigs.
Pepes Project was the action against Pablo Escobar
And, last, Ice Cream Boys has an Airborne connection. No morale operations... except among the ice cream boys themselves. They had high morale.
Cheers,
Sirhr
P.S. My memory is now completely drained. And there are some there that I don't know without googling... and I thought that was not fair in this thread.
Eldest Son is correct, Plowboy is not. (operation was ran in Cambodia an Laos)
I read a book about the use of nukes for basically a primitive version of fracking in the SW USA, which I found because of an article about Project Rulison. Possibly ruined an untold amount of NG by nuking it in Western Colorado. Anyway, it mentioned plow boy. Wrong side of the world.
I thought Pegasus was the aerial resupply during the siege of Khe Sahn before they called up the Cav..... ( Sorry those of you who were/are Uncle Sam's Misguided Children it has been recently pointed out that I am a coldhearted insensitive bastard and I'm trying to reform myself but it isn't working too good.)
Did you see that documentary about Azorian? If you are into engineering, math or physics, well, that's the most goddamndest operation ever conducted. IMO, the guys on that operation are only bested by the moon landing. Seriously. And they did it in secret --under everyone's noses. Fucking pros, every one of them.
FWIW, my father did shit similar to that but he never talked about much of it. A couple of the things he did talk about are declassified now, like the theft of 100 T72 tanks from Moscow (CIA literally ordered 'em on official papers and diverted the train in Siberia; it's how we knocked out Saddam's tanks so easy). Guys in those kinds of jobs have a VERY hard family life, I remember looking at my father and recognizing his face, but not actually knowing him. It was a strange feeling I'll never forget. His ability to just "switch" was fucking uncanny. I'll never know what he kept secret all those years so I guess he was a pro too. I wanted to get into that life and he did all he could to keep me from it. Enough about me.
I guess you need to come up with some questions now.
Ice Cream... Doesn't that come from the fact one of the patches or flashes looks like a Good Humor ice cream stick? The chute? Isn't it 101st? Ice cream boys were the fuckers in basic that got caught eating the shit on KP when I was in... Recruits are fucking sugar FIENDS.
Yeah, the Azorian documentary is amazing.
Just after the fall of the Berlin Wall, there were Americans in Berlin buying up anything Soviet they could get. There were thousands of Soviet troops still stationed in Berlin, but they weren't getting paid, fed or supported. The Germans wanted them gone. They were largely confined to barracks or very small 'leash' around camps. They were selling/trading/anything to get just basic food. The price for a brand new Soviet top-of-the-line tank started as an even-up trade for a new Mercedes. But the time they were moving out, the U.S. had so much gear and equipment (much of it headed towards the NTC in Nevada) that you could get an entire tank platoon for $20K. Makarov pistol... pair of jeans. Used was a bonus! GAZ jeep was $500. Trabant for $100. Live artillery piece... $2,000. The officers sold everything that wasn't nailed down. Some 'good ones' used the money to feed their troops (maybe fearing mutiny). Most took it home and then became rich as new Russian Capitalists.
Interesting times!
Ice Cream boys... Nope.... British SAS term. Last hint.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Just after the fall of the Berlin Wall, there were Americans in Berlin buying up anything Soviet they could get. There were thousands of Soviet troops still stationed in Berlin, but they weren't getting paid, fed or supported. The Germans wanted them gone. They were largely confined to barracks or very small 'leash' around camps. They were selling/trading/anything to get just basic food. The price for a brand new Soviet top-of-the-line tank started as an even-up trade for a new Mercedes. But the time they were moving out, the U.S. had so much gear and equipment (much of it headed towards the NTC in Nevada) that you could get an entire tank platoon for $20K. Makarov pistol... pair of jeans. Used was a bonus! GAZ jeep was $500. Trabant for $100. Live artillery piece... $2,000. The officers sold everything that wasn't nailed down. Some 'good ones' used the money to feed their troops (maybe fearing mutiny). Most took it home and then became rich as new Russian Capitalists.
Interesting times!
Ice Cream boys... Nope.... British SAS term. Last hint.
Cheers,
Sirhr
This has piqued my interest, I just requested the Steven Grey book from the library.
I think his book is about A-stan, what I referenced was about events/teams in Cambodia/Laos
MAROPS/Plowman/Parboil? Is this what I am looking for?
"Snakebite" teams from the 1st Special Forces Group on Okinawa.
All operations conducted against North Vietnam were now designated Footboy. These included Plowman maritime missions, Humidor psychological operations, Timberwork agent operations, and Midriff air missions.
"Snakebite" teams from the 1st Special Forces Group on Okinawa.
All operations conducted against North Vietnam were now designated Footboy. These included Plowman maritime missions, Humidor psychological operations, Timberwork agent operations, and Midriff air missions.
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yup...
Got the name because while everyone was out slogging in.... bad places. The Ice Cream boys made the best of training time by going to places where the sun was always shining and they could jump many times a day. And after a day of jumping... they got to work on their tans and have an ice cream cone... The guys in mobility troop, mountain troop and boat troop.... all made fun of the "Ice Cream Boys" in air troop who had it easy compared to living under pink Land Rovers in the desert.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Just because you find it on the internet doesn’t mean it’s not classified!!!
Muhahahahahahaha...
Now, I want to help you... so just send all of your computers, tables, smart phones, and anything else you may have accessed / searched the internet from to the following address [redeacted] for disposition. (Especially if one of those is an internet connect Samsung stainless steel refrigerator...)
-wink-
Actually...
Military ordnance for $400
What does “’A small primary explosion followed by a large secondary explosion...’” refer to?
Military ordnance for $400
What does “’A small primary explosion followed by a large secondary explosion...’” refer to?
^^^ A hit?
Could also be an FAE.
Or, a real stretch, is the double flash of a nuke.
Just speculation on my part....
Cheers,
Sirhr
Could also be an FAE.
Or, a real stretch, is the double flash of a nuke.
Just speculation on my part....
Cheers,
Sirhr
Generally, a thermonuclear weapon, aka H Bomb.... however, I have also heard it said about a thermobaric / fuel-air explosive.
(H bombs use a fission weapon to ignite fusion fuel - small primary / large secondary.)
(H bombs use a fission weapon to ignite fusion fuel - small primary / large secondary.)
I was thinking of just the simple aspect of "detonator" and "Plastique" simply because you can put a fuse in C4 but all you'll do is warm your C rats. Just the principle of the process.
Sean... you and I were both thinking in several directions. My first thought was that a bomb dropped on ... nothing... creates an explosion. A bomb dropped on, say, an ammo dump.... makes for great secondaries!
Ok... one you won't be able to Google....
When the Bravo Two Zero patrol got ambushed, one of the guys ran back to the pile of bergens they were abandoning to get something...
What was it and why was he risking incoming fire to get something out of his ruck???
Cheers,
Sirhr
Ok... one you won't be able to Google....
When the Bravo Two Zero patrol got ambushed, one of the guys ran back to the pile of bergens they were abandoning to get something...
What was it and why was he risking incoming fire to get something out of his ruck???
Cheers,
Sirhr
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