Military vs Civi

[BLAKSUNZ]

Growing up on the Mississippi Gulf Coast I have had the honor to meet many who have served our country in the Armed Forces. The military has a great influence in my hometown so it is only natural that I would develop respect for those people who currently or have served.

No matter how hardi tried, however, I never could bring myself to go into the armed services. It was always an ambition for me but I could not work up the nerve to do it. Call me a pussy or whatever but I still have the utmost respect for those who serve and would defend my country if called upon to do so (think the "draft").

That being said does it make me less of an American, less of a patriot and less of a man for not serving?

Note: This rant/question came about from watching a reality show where those who served would bash all who did not. Can I not serve and still have respect for what you did to ensure my rights and freedoms stay strong?

 

[Graham]

Re: Military vs Civi

Does it make you less of person not to have served in the military? Of course not.

If you want to serve there are many ways to help people less fortunate than you.

Here's some reading for you:
http://www.theheartandthefist.com/?_kk=t...CFUvCKgodJlTUWQ

 

[KillShot]

Re: Military vs Civi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BLAKSUNZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Growing up on the Mississippi Gulf Coast I have had the honor to meet many who have served our country in the Armed Forces. The military has a great influence in my hometown so it is only natural that I would develop respect for those people who currently or have served.

No matter how hard i tried, however, I never could bring myself to go into the armed services. It was always an ambition for me but I could not work up the nerve to do it. Call me a pussy or whatever but I still have the utmost respect for those who serve and would defend my country if called upon to do so (think the "draft").

<span style="font-weight: bold">That being said does it make me less of an American, less of a patriot and less of a man for not serving? </span>

Note: This rant/question came about from watching a reality show where those who served would bash all who did not. Can I not serve and still have respect for what you did to ensure my rights and freedoms stay strong?
</div></div>

No, it does not make you less of a man for not serving. The military isn't for everyone. Much like yourself, I have a love for my country and the servicemen and women that is probably matched by very few.

When I was younger, I wanted to join the military and spoke with a recruiter on several occasions. My goal, if you want to call it that, was to enlist and do whatever I must to join marine force recon or similar, depending on the branch of military and neither I nor anyone who knows me personally ever had a shred doubt that I could've accomplished it. No, I don't think highly of myself, I just know what I can achieve when I set my mind to it and nothing keeps me from attaining whatever it is I set my mind to do.

So, what kept me from enlisting?

I believe in fighting for a good <span style="font-style: italic">cause</span>, and not just <span style="font-style: italic">because</span>. There are things our armed forces give their lives for that I am totally against, and thus, I decided it was best that I not enlist. I believe in fighting for my country, protecting her against all enemies foreign and domestic, but in this day and age I believe there are so many things our loved ones are paying the ultimate price for that should not be happening. That's all I will say on the matter.

 

[Michael]

Re: Military vs Civi

Respect individuals and not position and the problem becomes a non-issue.

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: Military vs Civi

BLAKSUNZ,

It does not make you anything less of a citizen, or patriot, than someone who has served.

There is a better understanding among service members, because quite simply we have given up some of our rights to serve.

Don't pay attention to the TV shows. There is always something behind them.

 

[shark0311]

Re: Military vs Civi

You either do it or you don't.

"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat." – Theodore Roosevelt

 

[High Binder]

Re: Military vs Civi

Right out of high-school I went into the Navy (DEP'd) in about 6 months before graduating high-school. I had a great time and made a lot of good life-long friends and don't regret 99% of it. However, if the nation/political climate were like it is now, I wouldn't have joined...

 

[maxpower220]

Re: Military vs Civi

There is no reason that every male should join the military. The lifestyle is not for everyone, which is why so many leave after one tour. There are many sacrifices to serving in the military, but there are also great rewards. In the end, it all evens out for everyone.

The only time I take issue with those who haven't served is generally politicians that are making policies or laws that negatively impact the quality of life/risk of life of those who do serve.

Don't give it a second thought and just be glad that we aren't living in a world that would require all of us to serve.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Military vs Civi

Better to spend 8 seconds in the saddle then a life time in the stands.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Military vs Civi

I and a few other vet students have been throwing a conversation around lately. It begs the question,"Can you see your life as if you never went into the military?"

Very few can, most cannot even begin to wrap their heads around not serving

 

[Yasherka]

Re: Military vs Civi

Echoing Killshot: the military is not for everyone, which is fine. You can be every bit as patriotic without having served. I have utter contempt for troops who denigrate civvies for not serving when those civvies are supporting us.

Now, the little oxygen thieves who bash the military are a different matter....

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Military vs Civi

Since when did serving entitle one to a status above others? I know people that saw more action in their own neighborhood and had to fight for their own freedoms more than a majority of the military now.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Better to spend 8 seconds in the saddle then a life time in the stands. </div></div>

8 Seconds in the saddle doesn't mean anything if it's mutton busting. It also doesn't prove a persons Character or Courage, but that they were willing to try something without hesitation which can also be foolish. For instance... You and I both can agree there are plenty of Idiots that shouldn't be in the military. When they get out it won't make them better for simply have serving but merely lucky that they never had a training accident...

 

[Alderleet]

Re: Military vs Civi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I and a few other vet students have been throwing a conversation around lately. It begs the question,"Can you see your life as if you never went into the military?"

Very few can, most cannot even begin to wrap their heads around not serving </div></div>

Yeah, I can see my life as a giant shit taco full of mediocrity. I'm glad I'm doing it. I've gotten to see and do a ton of shit i'd have never had the chance to do, had I stayed in my podunk hometown.

 

[BLAKSUNZ]

Re: Military vs Civi

Wow I wasn't expecting so many responses...especially ones that are so well thought out and spoken (guess this isn't your typical forum).

How can I serve my country without enlisting? Community service perhaps? Donations? I just graduated college, just started my new job and want to contribute.

 

[wpdrebel]

Re: Military vs Civi

Hotty Toddy Blaksunz!!!! Like a few others have stated, the military is not for everyone, nor should it be. I came within a knats hair to joining the Marines after graduating from high school. I didnt because my now wife (girlfriend at the time)would have freaked and left me and I got the full paid track scholarship I was hoping for. To a small degree i regret not joining but i cant complain about it because I am happy with my life as it is now.

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: Military vs Civi

I personally think everyone should do at least 3 years in some capacity BUT there's nothing worse than someone being in that doesn't want to be there so there's goes that idea.

The only thing that makes someone less of an American is...well...acting like less of an American. There's nothing more demoralizing to those that do choose to serve than to have to listen to civilians bitch about wars and conflicts in which their sole source of information about said conflict are media pundits.

While there's nothing wrong with having an opinion, an <span style="font-style: italic">American and patriot </span>has a duty to ensure that this opinion, whether right or wrong, doesn't demoralize the troops and this my friends is where many civilians fall short of their obligations.

You send us to fight and die then publicly argue about things we don't want to have to hear about while we're being shot at. May as well just spit in our face.

There was a time when we didn't hear much about what was going on back home but those days are gone in this electronic age. Consider this even slightly and you'll have my respect. Ignore it and you're no better than our enemies and I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.

 

[maxpower220]

Re: Military vs Civi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BLAKSUNZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How can I serve my country without enlisting? Community service perhaps? Donations? I just graduated college, just started my new job and want to contribute. </div></div>

Vote at every election. Attend City Coucil/County Commisioner meetings and have a voice. Read through the Constitution of the U.S. and support it when you vote. Be active in your commmunity when there are open debates.

Also, you can send a little money each pay day to a service member: PM me and I will give you my PayPal account. Thanks, you Patriotic American!

 

[12B&20&IED-defeat]

Re: Military vs Civi

WELL I AM CURRENTLY IN AFGHANISTAN
4th deployment
2years Iraq
17 more days and it will be 2 years Afghan
I dont mind but i get to remove roadside bombs everday so its not so boring
13 years service

 

[Graham]

Re: Military vs Civi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BLAKSUNZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How can I serve my country without enlisting? Community service perhaps? Donations? I just graduated college, just started my new job and want to contribute.</div></div>You have nothing but time to figure that one out. Some of the most interesting people I know have been around the world and, thirty years later, still haven't decided. The most important thing about them is that they still think about how to help other people and not just themselves.

I am hearing that you are frustrated with the mediocrity of the world as it is and somehow expected to find more out here. I remember being in your position after college and asking myself "Is this it?" Unfortunately, college does not properly prepare intelligent, ambitious and energetic people for a life of chronic underemployment.

There are so many people that legitimately need help, and you don't have to travel to Africa to find them. Now is the time to (finally) do what you really want to do, not what someone else tells you to do. That way you will be more committed to doing it well. Helping people in a real way, without huring other people, is the key.

 

[Tazman]

Re: Military vs Civi

If everyone joined the military...who's left to pay taxes so they can get paid?

The people who serve deserve the upmost respect for what they do but it DOES NOT make you any less of a man/woman or patriot.

The men and women in the WTC on 9-11 were casualties of war but most probably did not serve. I consider them patriots!!

 

[Yasherka]

Re: Military vs Civi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BLAKSUNZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow I wasn't expecting so many responses...especially ones that are so well thought out and spoken (guess this isn't your typical forum).

How can I serve my country without enlisting? Community service perhaps? Donations? I just graduated college, just started my new job and want to contribute. </div></div>
You can serve your country by being a decent person. Do the right thing, pay your way, set yourself as an example. That is what makes a society/country strong and ultimately capable of having a good military. Want to contribute? Probably the best thing you can do is raise your children right (assuming you have or will have critters).

 

[squeek-k]

Re: Military vs Civi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maxpower220</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BLAKSUNZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How can I serve my country without enlisting? Community service perhaps? Donations? I just graduated college, just started my new job and want to contribute. </div></div>

Vote at every election. Attend City Coucil/County Commisioner meetings and have a voice. Read through the Constitution of the U.S. and support it when you vote. Be active in your commmunity when there are open debates.

Also, you can send a little money each pay day to a service member: PM me and I will give you my PayPal account. Thanks, you Patriotic American! </div></div>


This! Go out and vote, because it seems not enough shooters are. And no not serving doesn't make you less patriotic.

 

[Graham]

Re: Military vs Civi

OP, the question you haven't answered is why you don't want to join the military. Not that it should be a requirement, and I agree that military service is not for everyone, but the reason you give yourself for not wanting to do it might lead you to where you would be more comfortable.

For example, perhaps the rigidity of the structure is putting you off. I work with people every day for whom uniform, rank, and the swag they are permitted to pin on it is the most important thing in the world for them. In any crisis they can be relied upon to wait for instructions. If you can't handle people like that (which really isn't all that hard to do), then maybe consider a professional degree like Doctor or Lawyer. Spend your first few years doing government service to pay off the debt. Maybe join the JAG Corps and defend soldiers like that who are charged with infractions and have their pins and medals threatened.

Keep in mind that the world is much more complex place than it was twenty or thirty years ago, and the military isn't just about fighting anymore. There's nothing wrong with joining the military in a non-combat role if it's a means to an end: Perhaps you don't have the money, or the patience, or the drive to get involved in humanitarian relief work on your own. There are plenty of good, hard working, honorable people in the military who will help you on your way and be your friend for life.

Or, perhaps you want to be a medic or a rescue swimmer, and where the military is active now is where the good work is done. So you decide to put up with whatever BS is necessary, including combat, to join-up and help people in an immediate capacity.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Military vs Civi

I'm going a bit further. First, I'll add, my biggest fear in high school was that I would get drafted before I could enlist. My family was different. It would have been considered a disgrase if we had to be drafted.

So here it goes. I think we should have never gotten rid of the draft. Not that there is anything wrong with our present soldiers, but some of the best soldiers I served with were draftees.

Remember 2/3s of the greatest generation were draftees, (only 1/3 of the Vietnam vets were draftees) that one third, for the most part, were some damn fine soldiers.

 

[netranger6]

Re: Military vs Civi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BLAKSUNZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow I wasn't expecting so many responses...especially ones that are so well thought out and spoken (guess this isn't your typical forum).

How can I serve my country without enlisting? Community service perhaps? Donations? I just graduated college, just started my new job and want to contribute. </div></div>

Become an Ombudsman for the National Guard or Reserve. Get involved with the Wounded Warrior Project. Get involved with Homes for Heroes...or...go see a recruiter and just do it.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Military vs Civi

Just to add:

My biggest regret about the military was getting out. IF I'd stayed in, I could transfered to the Wyoming Guard, and per the Wyoming Constitution they couldn't have forced me to retire until I turned 70.

Let me tell you, its a lot easier to get out, then for a retiree to get back in.

After my stint in the regular army I joined the NG, between the two I have 24 years, 8 months. I pulled the pin and regretted it every since.

Not a day goes by I don't regret that decission. Setting by listening to my kids talk about their activities almost makes me feel like a deserter.

It was worse when my wife was activated (she also was a reservest), at the start of the Iraq war I was presented with a "three blue star flag" by my county, as I had a wife and two sons deployed. Made me really feel like shit, setting on my ass while my wife and kids go off to war.

Drove me nuts.

I couldn't venture to guess where I would have ended up if it werent for my military service.

My oldest son is now processing out, retiring next month from the navy, my oldest grandson will start his 3rd year of his ROTC Scolership, and when he graduates I'll get to pin him as an Infantry Officer.

When I went to OCS, I was pinned with a 2LT Bar from my commander, that bar was used to pin him when he went to OCS during Vietnam, from his mentor who got the gold bar in WWII. That's the bar I'll use to pin my Grandson, and he, hopefully his son.

So much for my ranting.

 

[High Binder]

Re: Military vs Civi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

When I went to OCS, I was pinned with a 2LT Bar from my commander, that bar was used to pin him when he went to OCS during Vietnam, from his mentor who got the gold bar in WWII. That's the bar I'll use to pin my Grandson, and he, hopefully his son.

</div></div>

That is so cool! You're lucky to have such mementos to pass down.

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: Military vs Civi

No it doesnt make you any lesser of a patriot or human being!

I will throw this out, and it is ONLY my personal OPINION but I believe every 18 year old male should serve a mandatory 2 year enlistment. Many many countries do this and it works well for them, like Korea for example.

Why and what would it do? many things actually,

- make some kids GROW UP much sooner than if they didnt serve

- build social skills and a sense of "team" that most high school grads never get

- the recruiting problems and quotas would be essentially gone, think about it, how many would think "hey this isnt all that bad and a good way of life" and choose to stay in after the 2 years.

- Give ALOT of kids from welfare homes and or neighborhoods that would typically not really have any real shot in life but to be dead by 21 a chance that they would never consider choosing cause it's "not cool" or "working for the man"

I believe we would all be better off pumping out the ones that did the 2 and out into the workforce or into colleges.

Now I understand the arguement that we were built on our freedoms and that many would despise this course of action, but its only 2 years, if it's not for you then get out.

I just think the benefits from doing this outweigh the cons, again just a discussion and just my opinion

 

[shark0311]

Re: Military vs Civi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since when did serving entitle one to a status above others? </div></div>

There is no entitlement to a "status" change created by military service. That being said people place a value on it. Just like anything else the value that the individual places on it can be swayed by the masses. The real question is what does it mean to you?

Military service (combat arms) cannot be replicated in the civilian world. The trials and tribulations are well outside the scope of what most would consider normal. In many cases it is a life changing event that follows the individual for the rest of their days.

 

[BLAKSUNZ]

Re: Military vs Civi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OP, the question you haven't answered is why you don't want to join the military. </div></div>

Honestly it was a combination of things. Between already having a few scholarships for school, my fiancé begging me not too, my parents and close friends asking me not too and even my friends parents who currently serve telling me not to had a major influence on me.

This entire thread originated from the thought process that those who do not serve cannot possibly feel the same patriotism toward their country as those who do. It is reassuring to know that many feel the way I do and that those who feel otherwise are in the minority.

I'm going to look into some programs that send items to those overseas and although it may not influence the military I plan on becoming an NRA life member when I get the money for it. Supporting the NRA is a must and I hope everyone here does too.

 

[BLAKSUNZ]

Re: Military vs Civi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 5rshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hotty Toddy Blaksunz!!!! Like a few others have stated, the military is not for everyone, nor should it be. I came within a knats hair to joining the Marines after graduating from high school. I didnt because my now wife (girlfriend at the time)would have freaked and left me and I got the full paid track scholarship I was hoping for. To a small degree i regret not joining but i cant complain about it because I am happy with my life as it is now. </div></div>

Hotty Toddy to you too!!

I too came very close on two separate occasions (National Guard then Airforce) to pursuing an officers program. Just couldn't bring myself to do it for reasons mentioned prior.

 

[notquiteright]

Re: Military vs Civi

I enlisted during a very unpopular time for service. Most of my friends were against military service and were not the least bit shy about saying so.

I didn't enlist because I thought dying for my country was a good idea, I was 18, who the hell thinks they will die at 18?! I always found the not wanting to die for a particular mission a bit funny smelling when discussing service to country. It sounds too much like the self absorbed twits I went to school with.

But then again I join for purely selfish reasons. I felt it was MY duty to serve when it was my turn. I am not pretty but serving made looking in the mirror a tad easier.

Not serving doesn't make you less of a man. Service to country doesn't make you more of a man. Being a veteran makes you a different man.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: Military vs Civi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shark0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since when did serving entitle one to a status above others? </div></div>

There is no entitlement to a "status" change created by military service. That being said people place a value on it. Just like anything else the value that the individual places on it can be swayed by the masses. The real question is what does it mean to you?

Military service (combat arms) cannot be replicated in the civilian world. The trials and tribulations are well outside the scope of what most would consider normal. In many cases it is a life changing event that follows the individual for the rest of their days. </div></div>

I beg to differ. It's all subjective on what one does in the Military. Just because one is in the Military doesn't mean they've seen combat and that their position can't be replicated in a civilian roles. I think LAPD, NYPD, FBI, CIA, and any Bouncer in SEAL alley would disagree with you as well.

I highly respect anyone that's served, but serving does not imply Combat, does not imply Excellence, and definitely does not imply Character. The Heroes that have fought and died for our Country weren't of less character prior to service. The service simply helped to provide them the tools and opportunity to excel as well as open their eyes to the potential of being greater than themselves.

"The Ultimate measure of a Man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." - Martin Luther King Jr.

 

[shark0311]

Re: Military vs Civi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shark0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since when did serving entitle one to a status above others? </div></div>

There is no entitlement to a "status" change created by military service. That being said people place a value on it. Just like anything else the value that the individual places on it can be swayed by the masses. The real question is what does it mean to you?

Military service (combat arms) cannot be replicated in the civilian world. The trials and tribulations are well outside the scope of what most would consider normal. In many cases it is a life changing event that follows the individual for the rest of their days. </div></div>

I beg to differ. It's all subjective on what one does in the Military. Just because one is in the Military doesn't mean they've seen combat and that their position can't be replicated in a civilian roles. I think LAPD, NYPD, FBI, CIA, and any Bouncer in SEAL alley would disagree with you as well.

I highly respect anyone that's served, but serving does not imply Combat, does not imply Excellence, and definitely does not imply Character. The Heroes that have fought and died for our Country weren't of less character prior to service. The service simply helped to provide them the tools and opportunity to excel as well as open their eyes to the potential of being greater than themselves.

"The Ultimate measure of a Man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." - Martin Luther King Jr.


</div></div>

You will never know how wrong you are unless you decide to do it. Taking that first step outside the wire armed to the teeth is unlike anything else.

 

[netranger6]

Re: Military vs Civi

You can get involved with the American Red Cross, become an Armed Forces volunteer and/or Disaster Team volunteer. Or, go see the recruiter?

 

[TNT]

Re: Military vs Civi

Those who deserve respect are the ones who go do their duty to the best of their ability. That duty may be taking up arms against enemies of the nation or it may be cleaning poop off the seat in a gas station restroom. If you take the gifts God has given you, mind, body, and spirt, and do what you can to make the best of them, you deserve respect, whatever it is that you end up doing to fulfill that.

Regardless of others' opinions, whether they praise you or curse you, you are going to be the ultimate earthly judge of your choices when you look at yourself in the mirror at the end of the day.

 

[shark0311]

Re: Military vs Civi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TNT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those who deserve respect are the ones who go do their duty to the best of their ability. That duty may be taking up arms against enemies of the nation or it may be cleaning poop off the seat in a gas station restroom. If you take the gifts God has given you, mind, body, and spirt, and do what you can to make the best of them, you deserve respect, whatever it is that you end up doing to fulfill that.

Regardless of others' opinions, whether they praise you or curse you, you are going to be the ultimate earthly judge of your choices when you look at yourself in the mirror at the end of the day.</div></div>

Well said!

 

[Bill Larson]

Re: Military vs Civi

Man up.....the military will change you as a person...make you self confident...give you a free education...it should be a requirement...for every man and woman to serve for 2 years rite outa high school....
there are desk jobs,mechanic jobs,computer jobs...
it would teach younger people to be self suffcient,break the embelicle cord,manage money,keep your gear straight,be on time,develop life long friendships.
It would unite again this once great country by not defineing people as republicans/democrats/liberals...but AMERICANS...
bill larson
USN 65-69

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: Military vs Civi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Larson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Man up.....the military will change you as a person...make you self confident...give you a free education...it should be a requirement...for every man and woman to serve for 2 years rite outa high school....
there are desk jobs,mechanic jobs,computer jobs...
it would teach younger people to be self suffcient,break the embelicle cord,manage money,keep your gear straight,be on time,develop life long friendships.
It would unite again this once great country by not defineing people as republicans/democrats/liberals...but AMERICANS...
bill larson
USN 65-69
</div></div>

people dont read through threads before they post anymore do they? Bill, read what I said

 

[Situation Normal]

Re: Military vs Civi

There are so many great responces that there isn't much room to contribute.

I personally feel that everybody needs to serve for two years. I'm not necessarily refering to the Armed Forces, but to community service of some sort. Whether that be the Peace Corps, a community organizer, volunteer time at the local hospital, local Pastor, or from going on some sort of mission in support of your local church, it doesn't matter. I just feel that after two years of community service that the person has a better understanding of life; a better understanding of the consequences of our actions. I'll give an example of that understanding...

The first election that I was old enough to vote in was when Bill Clinton was running for President. Now I voted for him. Knowing nothing of what it takes character-wise for a person to be a President, I voted for him. Not because he was the better of the candidates running, but because he played the saxaphone on MTV. I was a guitarist back then, and just thought having a President who was willing to play on MTV was just the coolest. Not exactly the best reason to vote for him, but it was my reason.

I feel that if I had performed some sort of community service back then, that I would have at least paid attention to some of the issues/views/etc... Yes, since then I have served. I served seven active years in the Army as a mechanic. During those seven years I grew up and began to understand the world a bit...

 

[crumpmd]

Re: Military vs Civi

Blaksunz
Remember always the opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and they all stink. That being said here is my stinking opinion.

One is no less a patriot or a man for having not served in the military.

I did, but I also felt compelled to serve. I could not have ignored that irresistible urge to serve. But it doesn't make me any better than anyone else.

If you want to serve your country, consider the Boy Scout Oath. They pledge to serve country by obeying the Scout Law. The twelve points of the Scout Law are:
A Scout is Trustworthy.
A Scout tells the truth. He is honest, and he keeps his promises. People can depend on him.
A Scout is Loyal.
A Scout is true to his family, friends, Scout leaders, school, and nation.
A Scout is Helpful.
A Scout cares about other people. He willingly volunteers to help others without expecting payment or reward.
A Scout is Friendly.
A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He offers his friendship to people of all races and nations, and respects them even if their beliefs and customs are different from his own.
A Scout is Courteous.
A Scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows that using good manners makes it easier for people to get along.
A Scout is Kind.
A Scout knows there is strength in being gentle. He treats others as he wants to be treated. Without good reason, he does not harm or kill any living thing.
A Scout is Obedient.
A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobeying them.
A Scout is Cheerful.
A Scout looks for the bright side of life. He cheerfully does tasks that come his way. He tries to make others happy.
A Scout is Thrifty.
A Scout works to pay his own way and to help others. He saves for the future. He protects and conserves natural resources. He carefully uses time and property.
A Scout is Brave.
A Scout can face danger although he is afraid. He has the courage to stand for what he thinks is right even if others laugh at him or threaten him.
A Scout is Clean.
A Scout keeps his body and mind fit and clean. He chooses the company of those who live by high standards. He helps keep his home and community clean.
A Scout is Reverent.
A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.

Living by a code like this will make you a good citizen and a valued member of society.

My opinion, FWIW.

 

[oneshot86]

Re: Military vs Civi

youre cheating yourself for not serving if youre considering it...

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: Military vs Civi

We should give the OP credit for one thing...he had the sack to approach this crowd with such a question. Might do quite well in the service.

 

[SFree]

Re: Military vs Civi

One things for sure, considering the state of our country, it's leadership, and the condition of other world powers concerning their relationship with the US, that decision may very well be made for you...


Sooner than you think

 

[Tactical_Tom]

Re: Military vs Civi

Just being in the military doesn’t make someone a better person. The way things are going and the type of wars we seem to be getting into if you join up now you might regret it later. What the county needs isn’t more fighter ways. You could join the coast guard, they are the branch I respect the most. Maybe it’s because I was a life guard.

 

[Va_Gentleman]

Re: Military vs Civi

After college, the end of the cold war and entering the Clinton years; I did not think the military would need my services.

Now I look back and see how wrong my outlook was. Perhaps my youth blinded me from seeing the world as it is.

I look back and the one thing that is close to regret is that I did not serve. Especially since world events of the last 12 years. My family has Vet status for most conflicts in our history. (Even the War of 1812)

But what I do now is to steer particular things that are helpful to our Military families and help out where I can. That is the best I can do.

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: Military vs Civi

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[-Nick-]

Re: Military vs Civi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shark0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shark0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since when did serving entitle one to a status above others? </div></div>

There is no entitlement to a "status" change created by military service. That being said people place a value on it. Just like anything else the value that the individual places on it can be swayed by the masses. The real question is what does it mean to you?

Military service (combat arms) cannot be replicated in the civilian world. The trials and tribulations are well outside the scope of what most would consider normal. In many cases it is a life changing event that follows the individual for the rest of their days. </div></div>

I beg to differ. It's all subjective on what one does in the Military. Just because one is in the Military doesn't mean they've seen combat and that their position can't be replicated in a civilian roles. I think LAPD, NYPD, FBI, CIA, and any Bouncer in SEAL alley would disagree with you as well.

I highly respect anyone that's served, but serving does not imply Combat, does not imply Excellence, and definitely does not imply Character. The Heroes that have fought and died for our Country weren't of less character prior to service. The service simply helped to provide them the tools and opportunity to excel as well as open their eyes to the potential of being greater than themselves.

"The Ultimate measure of a Man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." - Martin Luther King Jr.


</div></div>

You will never know how wrong you are unless you decide to do it. Taking that first step outside the wire armed to the teeth is unlike anything else. </div></div>

Did you even read what I said? Let me re-type it in bold so you can clearly understand... <span style="font-weight: bold"> Not everyone who serves see's combat or even comes close to combat. Ergo your statement "Taking that first step outside the wire armed to the teeth is unlike anything else." means nothing unless that service member actually does.</span> I know Coast Guard that have seen more combat than many service members.

 

[Graham]

Re: Military vs Civi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know Coast Guard that have seen more combat than many service members.</div></div>If you're in the coast guard, then you're in the Service. That said, I know many ordinary people who have seen more combat than members of our services who serve in combat units.

As for taking that first step outside the wire... try doing it unarmed to the teeth, like journalists do, then tell me that doing the same thing while armed, with friends who are also armed, in armored vehicles, with radios, backed by artillery, and if necessary having aircraft on tap, feels anything unlike travelling with all the comforts of home.

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: Military vs Civi

It's really NOT an individual service member's choice on whether they see combat or not. Overall those decisions are made on a larger level.

Hence what I said before about giving up some of your rights when you join.

I can give you a story about a friend of mine who was in Ramadi as an 11B with the 2nd ID, who was there at the same time as another 11B friend in Baghdad. One sees combat, and the other doesn't.

It's not MOS specific, nor in the cases of ambushes, should it be used to say that one individual or service is better than another.

Combat just happens.