Curious if anyone has seen this foam layout before, just recieved a kit from Thoroughbred Armament’s 2nd batch and haven’t seen this layout before.
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Mk 13 Mod 0 stock
- Thread starter pmclaine
- Start date
Had some info backwards, but both types of foam are correct for the Mod 5, yours is legit.
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Hey guys,
anyone sent their MK13 Mod 5 over to Red Bull Armory? I've been waiting on my Mk11 can to send off to another smith, but I just came across some information from another member on one of the forums that Red Bull is able to make the barrel modifications using a CNC machine program from Crane. This is supposed to not require the can for fitment. I was just curious if anyone had used them for this build yet? It'd be nice to have my rifle complete without waiting on this form 4. I want to do my due diligence before shipping off this crazy expensive build kit.
anyone sent their MK13 Mod 5 over to Red Bull Armory? I've been waiting on my Mk11 can to send off to another smith, but I just came across some information from another member on one of the forums that Red Bull is able to make the barrel modifications using a CNC machine program from Crane. This is supposed to not require the can for fitment. I was just curious if anyone had used them for this build yet? It'd be nice to have my rifle complete without waiting on this form 4. I want to do my due diligence before shipping off this crazy expensive build kit.
I believe LRI did my Mod 5 on a 5 axis CNC with the same drawing/program and stated the suppressor was required for fitment. That said, I am not sure what the impact is of having the rifle built without the can on hand for machining then attaching it afterwards.
Perhaps it’s a simple matter of excessive POI shift between suppressed and unsuppressed shooting, perhaps there are other considerations.
Maybe @LongRifles Inc. can provide some insight?
That was my original understanding as well and that made perfect sense. I brought this up and apparently Chris over at Red Bull has the go/no go gauges for suppressor fitment. I'm going to give him a call today to see what his thoughts are, but I figured with the influx in MK13 builds on the way because of the thoroughbred armament stockpile I'd see if there was another gunsmith option to be brought into the fold.
GO/NO GO gauges? Lol...
I've installed a lot of Knight cans over the years and what I've come to learn is they are definitely "custom" as no two are alike. It is why we absolutely require the can to be in our possession when pinning the barrel. Ignoring this results in one of two things happening:
1. A can you install/remove with a hammer or impact gun.
2. A can that rattles onto the barrel like a marble in a coffee can.
On the random chance it actually fits as intended, run and buy a lotto ticket...
I'll put some of this into a better perspective. From 2006 to 2009 I was a security contractor working for Triple Canopy on the Baghdad Embassy Security Contract. I was initially hired as a gun plumber. The contract grew over time to include the REO's (Regional Embassy Offices) scattered throughout the theater. The job metastasized into a courier and traveling range officer gig to these locations as well. (Ankawa, Kurdistan, and Basrah in southern Iraq). This meant I had a lot of interaction with other companies. "Bee Dub" (BlackWater as it was known at the time), and DynCorp. (A bunch of others, but back then there were only 3 able to bid on DoS contracts).
Anyway, BW had the WPPS contract and that mandated DDM's. (Defensive Designated Marksman). Filling that slot required monthly recertification on the weapon systems. The M24 bolt guns and the SR25's from Knight. It was interesting that BW guys only shot the bolt guns for this exercise. You almost never saw the gas guns come out of the cases. Now we move forward to the 2008-ish time frame. BW was in hot water over an incident so they were the focal point of all things from the DoS point of view. The most feared entity in security contracting is not a terrorist or insurgent. It's actually a Department of State Contract Compliance Officer. One stroke of that pen will shut you down and that means millions of dollars per week down the toilet. No shit.
A gent showed up one day and told them the DDM's were going to do an on the spot re-qual. No biggy. They pull out the bolt guns and go to work. They are told to put them away and get the SR's out. Shoulders and heads drop like no other.
The failure rate was over 90 percent. Because BW could not document these guys qualifying on these guns as directed by the contract (years in some cases) the audit conducted stuck them with a fine that approached $50 million dollars. They were going to go under if forced to pay it. A formal protest was issued and DoS flew in WPPS DDM instructors from Quantico to evaluate the guns.
The long and short of this is that the guns were total shit and incapable of delivering the performance standards dictated by the contract. BW got to keep all of their money and those guns were pulled from service. Keep in mind the round count on these things was minimal (because they didn't work).
In 2012 I was home, fat, and happy. Triple Canopy reached out to me about a complete overhaul as they had inherited a bunch of this stuff when they were awarded the WPPS contract in 2009/2010. I said sure and a semi-truck of the stuff arrived a short time later. I had my work cut out for me. They were an absolute mess and Knight Armament was ZERO help. In fact, they were irritated that I was working on them as they tried like hell to just sell new guns to TC.
So, new barrels and yadda, yadda... FWIW the rifles were used by students at the Tiger Valley facility and the very next class posted some of the highest scores in the history of the WPPS DDM course.
It served as a valuable lesson: Using parts that aren't junk does help.
C.
EDIT: Just for clarity. There's no reason to use a 5 axis mill when fitting up a barrel for a Knight can. We use a 4 axis machine for this. A 5 is the wrong answer for this as it would just overcomplicate the work holding and programming. I DO use my 5x for retrofitting MARS rails originally intended for M700's to the Stiller MK13's though. It's the perfect machine for that.
We write all of our own code. Nothing is sourced from any other entity. Ever...
I've installed a lot of Knight cans over the years and what I've come to learn is they are definitely "custom" as no two are alike. It is why we absolutely require the can to be in our possession when pinning the barrel. Ignoring this results in one of two things happening:
1. A can you install/remove with a hammer or impact gun.
2. A can that rattles onto the barrel like a marble in a coffee can.
On the random chance it actually fits as intended, run and buy a lotto ticket...
I'll put some of this into a better perspective. From 2006 to 2009 I was a security contractor working for Triple Canopy on the Baghdad Embassy Security Contract. I was initially hired as a gun plumber. The contract grew over time to include the REO's (Regional Embassy Offices) scattered throughout the theater. The job metastasized into a courier and traveling range officer gig to these locations as well. (Ankawa, Kurdistan, and Basrah in southern Iraq). This meant I had a lot of interaction with other companies. "Bee Dub" (BlackWater as it was known at the time), and DynCorp. (A bunch of others, but back then there were only 3 able to bid on DoS contracts).
Anyway, BW had the WPPS contract and that mandated DDM's. (Defensive Designated Marksman). Filling that slot required monthly recertification on the weapon systems. The M24 bolt guns and the SR25's from Knight. It was interesting that BW guys only shot the bolt guns for this exercise. You almost never saw the gas guns come out of the cases. Now we move forward to the 2008-ish time frame. BW was in hot water over an incident so they were the focal point of all things from the DoS point of view. The most feared entity in security contracting is not a terrorist or insurgent. It's actually a Department of State Contract Compliance Officer. One stroke of that pen will shut you down and that means millions of dollars per week down the toilet. No shit.
A gent showed up one day and told them the DDM's were going to do an on the spot re-qual. No biggy. They pull out the bolt guns and go to work. They are told to put them away and get the SR's out. Shoulders and heads drop like no other.
The failure rate was over 90 percent. Because BW could not document these guys qualifying on these guns as directed by the contract (years in some cases) the audit conducted stuck them with a fine that approached $50 million dollars. They were going to go under if forced to pay it. A formal protest was issued and DoS flew in WPPS DDM instructors from Quantico to evaluate the guns.
The long and short of this is that the guns were total shit and incapable of delivering the performance standards dictated by the contract. BW got to keep all of their money and those guns were pulled from service. Keep in mind the round count on these things was minimal (because they didn't work).
In 2012 I was home, fat, and happy. Triple Canopy reached out to me about a complete overhaul as they had inherited a bunch of this stuff when they were awarded the WPPS contract in 2009/2010. I said sure and a semi-truck of the stuff arrived a short time later. I had my work cut out for me. They were an absolute mess and Knight Armament was ZERO help. In fact, they were irritated that I was working on them as they tried like hell to just sell new guns to TC.
So, new barrels and yadda, yadda... FWIW the rifles were used by students at the Tiger Valley facility and the very next class posted some of the highest scores in the history of the WPPS DDM course.
It served as a valuable lesson: Using parts that aren't junk does help.
C.
EDIT: Just for clarity. There's no reason to use a 5 axis mill when fitting up a barrel for a Knight can. We use a 4 axis machine for this. A 5 is the wrong answer for this as it would just overcomplicate the work holding and programming. I DO use my 5x for retrofitting MARS rails originally intended for M700's to the Stiller MK13's though. It's the perfect machine for that.
We write all of our own code. Nothing is sourced from any other entity. Ever...
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Gauges are great and all but when the suppressors can have different tolerances those gauges don't mean much.
Can confirm, I was with TC from 2010-2012. Most of DDM’s qual’d and left the wire with the M24. I would see the Mod 0 at the range every so often and that’s about it. Our team DDM rolled with the M24. I was taken back a little considering what the role the Mod 0 was initially designated for. Always felt we were better off having the Mod 0 if shit ever hit the fan.
Here's one we literally just wrapped up. "Ant eater" can, reworked Mars rail, and all the other fixings. If you look close at some of the base photos you can see the trace of the brass plugs used to relocate the rear bridge screw holes. Notice also the clearance work for the RFID tag.
Attachments
Snagged an issued optic to use instead of the NF on my Mod 0
Neat patina on that scope. Those are the older style PRI rings (no logo/no markings, sharp/unbeveled edges), but looks like they have more contemporary Torx head screws. I have a set of them as well with a SIMRAD cap, but with the original allen head screws (attached). I found my set on eBay, as I wanted the SIMRAD cap. Here's the new style rings PRI makes (logo and beveled edges): https://www.precisionreflex.com/30mm_Scope_Rings_pr-4277.aspx
My observation is that Leupold Tactical rings are most often encountered, but PRI rings do show up on various Crane-built rifles based on pics, and some take-off Leupold 10x and 16x scopes like this one have PRI rings from time to time. (BTW, I think that scope has an A or B serial # suffix, which dates to 1993-1994).
Attachments
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Now you got me thinking. Let me pull mine. It’s been several years. To be perfectly up front mine doesn’t have the coating, it’s the civilian version but I spoke with Tom when I sent it in to be re-set and he confirmed the only difference is the coating.
Alright, pulled the barreled action tonight. What a pain in the ass. Makes me love the Mod0 even more.
No cuts to my stock at all. AICS AX stock with the mod7 20 MOA rail on a stiller Mk13 action and XTSP mod22. All drop in fit.
No cuts to my stock at all. AICS AX stock with the mod7 20 MOA rail on a stiller Mk13 action and XTSP mod22. All drop in fit.
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After a lot shorter time than I expected- RWS hit me up last night letting me know my rifle is done. Haven't been this excited for a while for a new build.
My plan is to clone the pictured rifle.
My plan is to clone the pictured rifle.
And done! Even got the shooting mat lol
thats the late case issued with the stiller/imuns guns. You can see your case has a cut provisioned for an imuns rifle. It is enlarged for the imuns and also the bipod being more forward. Many of these cases have Stiller Serials on the outside. The earlier cases, which had the rifle fold in the case, were for the remingtons and cut for the mars and often had G6XX prefix serials marked on outside. Do note, there are some remington/mars folder cases that were chopped for imuns and have rem or stiller serials.
attached photo of the case infront of the pallet is a modified rem case for a imuns. This case has a rem serial but cut for imuns.
next photo of new remington /mars mk13 in folder case. This was an early gun.
last photo - of USMCSeans gun - you can see how the imuns rifle fits into the case. There is a cut for the imuns itself, and the bipod cutout us more forward relative to the rest of the stock.
Attachments
Mk13 Mod 0 built by RWS
Return stock, issued optic, issued case and assorted small bits.
.300 Win Mag chamber? Lilja Mk 13 contour barrel? Fully spec/clone build or did you deviate in some areas?
i was looking at that rifle. Beautiful build. I owe you two mod 0's. Im going to need one of those desert sands and one in black. just waiting on Lilja.
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2 legit Mk13 Mod 2 scopes, I've only seen 4 total in private collections, including these:
These also arrived today!
One of my favorite Mod 0 stocks, I need to get this built:
These also arrived today!
One of my favorite Mod 0 stocks, I need to get this built:
Very nice collection of parts. The Mk 13 Mod 2 (4.5-14x, first focal plane) Leupold scopes are really rare, first time I have seen them. Nice patina on that stock too, that will be a unique build. Thanks for posting these pics.
Ryan, amazing parts as always! Would love to see the stock that had provenance ie. photo’d in the battle of Mosul. Were you able to put that build together yet?
Just looked at the serial numbers on my Mod 3 marked bolts and they're extremely close to the 2 serial numbers you listed! I have 4314 and 3950.
@0812guns, do you have an estimate on how many Mod 3 rifles were made at Crane?
And most importantly, the elusive flash hider!
I am looking into getting a local laser etching shop to engrave my bolt to match the Crane “Mk13 Mod 0” markings, has anyone done this and did the shop just engrave based on a picture or does anyone have a file they could share that they used?
Thanks all,
Thanks all,
I need to get around to sending my MK13 Mod 5 kit out to RWS. I've still got the jitters about shipping all of that equipment out I guess. Luckily it sounds like RWS doesn't need the can for the barrel contouring as they have a couple MK11 cans to mate up. I'm curious if anyone with those thoroughbred kits has had their rifles built yet. I know there were a bunch of those kits. I was also hoping someone was going to part out the kits too. What I wouldn't do for a stock set of those FDE skins to use instead of my brand new cerakoted FDE skins.
I did come across those a couple of days ago. $450 bucks from someone without feedback makes me a touch nervous. I'm following it though.
Mk13 has been one of my grail guns for a long time. If only I started when I wanted one when stocks were cheap 
about as far as I got was a MARS rail
about as far as I got was a MARS railGreat inspiration photos here. I'm just now getting down the rabbit hole and this is great for inspiration.
Can someone Mod 3 pic dump to persuade me to be more patient.
I’ve got my parts just waiting to be sent out but, I’m trying to hold out for the right Smith for a Mod 3.
I’ve got my parts just waiting to be sent out but, I’m trying to hold out for the right Smith for a Mod 3.
I talked to the guy, he explained the situation to me and has the new description up there now. I bowed out of the auction though. $600 bucks is too much for the skins in my mind.
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