Mk262 clones ? Razor core ? Super performance 75s?

[deersniper]

What’s the best mk262 clone?

Have a ar set up for 262 but don’t want to blow through 2-300 rounds of it in a match.
What’s the best clone ?

 

[nn8734]

Use caution with the Hornady 5.56 NATO superformance load as it can run hot and over pressure in some rifles/lots.

If you reloaded, AA2520 under a 77smk produces a near perfect clone w/24.8-25.2g and lc brass and whatever sr primer you have.

 

[deersniper]

Use caution with the Hornady 5.56 NATO superformance load as it can run hot and over pressure in some rifles/lots.

If you reloaded, AA2520 under a 77smk produces a near perfect clone w/24.8-25.2g and lc brass and whatever sr primer you have.

I don’t reload but this thing runs like a 10/22 with 262 so I’m sure super performance will be fine

 

[nn8734]

I don’t reload but this thing runs like a 10/22 with 262 so I’m sure super performance will be fine

View attachment 7937629

Yea my mk12 mod 1 runs the same with the 262 but ive had a few lots of the 75g superformance stuff run hot w/noticeable pressure signs in the same rifle. Mk262 mod 1 uses some “special sauce” to help mitigate over pressure; the black hills 77g commercial stuff apparently uses the same recipe and is identical to the stuff sent to the .mil.

I shot a couple boxes of 77g razorcore once out of the mod 1 once a few years back and recall it performed well out to 500m

 

[Sincerd]

Johnny reloading bench on YouTube test well over 20 powders. Two stood out above the rest. A2520 with 25.2gr and power pro varmint. Varmint was the best performance with a good 100+FPS over mk262.

If you haven't watched all of these your missing out.



That being said, I still love xbr8208 if you can find it.

 

[Slevin182]

Johnny reloading bench on YouTube test well over 20 powders. Two stood out above the rest. A2520 with 25.2gr and power pro varmint. Varmint was the best performance with a good 100+FPS over mk262.

If you haven't watched all of these your missing out.



That being said, I still love xbr8208 if you can find it.

Spent a LOT of time watching that series, as well as others.

N-140 has worked well for me with the Hornady 75gr BTHP, but it’s slower than others and not as temperature stable.

 

[Near miss]

Spent a LOT of time watching that series, as well as others.

N-140 has worked well for me with the Hornady 75gr BTHP, but it’s slower than others and not as temperature stable.

I noticed I could not get enough N140 in to the case before COAL went over mag length, even with compression.

N540 is quite much denser than N140 and with that I have no problem getting what I want in to the case.

I am not sure how sensitive it is, I would estimate 30ish fps from 20F to 80F, so 0.5ms/C, so pretty basic.

 

[deersniper]

I don’t reload

 

[Molon]

I’m sure super performance will be fine

Know that for a fact, do ya?

Hornady has even admitted that there can be problems with this ammunition in gas operated systems especially when using a suppressor. From Hornady:

"Hornady ballisticians have conducted testing with a variety of guns (including guns equipped with suppressors), and our findings conclude that some systems work far better with Superformance ammunition than others.

It is recommended that to get the best functioning with Superformance ammunition in gas operated/gas piston semi-automatic or select fire guns, rifle length gas systems with 20 inch or longer barrel lengths are best for reliable firing and extraction. Any other configuration, particularly shorter barrels/gas systems are best served with the installation of an adjustable gas system, ESPECIALLY if a suppressor is to be installed."

....


.....

 

[Molon]

VihtaVuori N140 works great for producing accurate hand-loads with 75 grain Hornady bullets.


Reloading For The AR-15: Hornady 75 Grain BTHP

Hornady produces three different versions of their 75 grain open-tip-match bullet in 22 caliber (0.224”). For this article, we’ll be looking at the projectile that is colloquially referred to as the “T1”.

The T1 is available as a reloading component, with a product number of #2279 for the 100 count boxes. It’s also available in 600 and 4000 count boxes.

I use the Hornady 75 grain BTHP bullet to load match-grade hand-loads for my semi-automatic AR-15s chambered in 5.56mm/223 Remington. According to Ballistic Performance of Rifle Bullets by Bryan Litz, the Hornady 75 grain BTHP has an average G1 ballistic coefficient of 0.356 and an average G7 ballistic coefficient of 0.183.

The lot of T1 projectiles used for this article have a nominal length of 0.988” and I load them to a nominal COAL of 2.245”. When fired from a Colt SOCOM barrel with a 5.56mm NATO chamber, this COAL will create a jump to the lands of 178 thousandths of an inch. When fired from a Larue Stealth barrel with a 223 Wylde chamber, this COAL will create a jump to the lands of 115 thousandths of an inch and when fired from a Krieger barrel with a 223 Remington chamber, this COAL will create a jump to the lands of 78 thousandths of an inch.

The jump to the lands figures stated above where obtained using a Sinclair bullet seating depth gauge and a Forster 223 Remington 1.4636” head-space gauge. These figures are contingent upon a variety of variables, such as the particular chamber reamer that was used for your barrel, the number of rounds that have been fired through your barrel when the measurement is obtained, the particular lot of bullets used and whether you use a virgin case, a fired case, a resized case or a head-space gauge to obtain this measurement.

WARNING!
Reloading is an inherently dangerous activity. The information provided here is for educational purposes only. It is not intended to be used for the actual loading of ammunition by the reader. No warranty, guarantee or assurance that these loads are safe is stated, suggested or implied nor should any be inferred. Usage of this information for the actual loading of ammunition may result in malfunctions, damage and destruction of property and grave injury or death to beings human in nature or otherwise. Don't even view this information in the presence of children or small animals.




For this hand-load of the Hornady 75 grain BTHP bullet, I use virgin Lake City brass that has been weight-sorted, match-prepped and neck-sized. The cases are primed with Federal GM205M primers and charged with VihtaVuori N140 powder and as mentioned above, the T1 projectile is seated to a COAL of 2.245”. This process is conducted in a semi-progressive manner on a Dillon XL-650 press using a Pact Digital electronic powder dispenser and scale to dispense a powder charge of 24.1 grains of the VihtaVuori N140.

When chronographed from a 20” Colt A2 barrel, a 10-shot string of this hand-load fired over an Oehler 35P produced a muzzle velocity of 2638 FPS with a standard deviation of 4 FPS and a coefficient of variation of 0.15%. (The muzzle velocity was calculated from the instrumental velocity using Oehler Ballistic Explorer.) A 10-shot group fired from one of my Krieger barreled AR-15s, at distance of 100 yards using my bench-rest set-up, had an extreme spread of 0.526 MOA.

No canines were harmed during the testing of this ammunition.

....

 

[deersniper]

I hear good things about mag tech mk262 ???

 

[357Max]

The IMI Razorcore has been the best I’ve used as far as available ammo goes. It’s been sub .75” at 2706 avg from an 18” proof.

For matches it’s good to 500 but at 6-700 the shitty SD’s might be a problem. For 2+ moa plates it should be fine to 700.

Here are two recent 5 shot strings on the magneto speed for the 77gr Razorcore.

 

[deersniper]

Know that for a fact, do ya?

 

[JimmyT]

I hear good things about mag tech mk262 ???

It’s unobtanium right now. I heard it was because Sierra raised the prices of the SMK bullet to the point it was unprofitable for MagTec to make anymore.

I have tried Frontier 75 grain match in my Geissele 16” Super Duty with very good results.

 

[Molon]

IMI “Razor Core” 77 Grain OTM, LR, Mod 1

This load is topped with a 77 grain OTM bullet with a cannelure. The case mouth is sealed and the primers are crimped and sealed. When chronographed from the 20” Colt barrel, the load had a muzzle velocity of 2866 FPS with a standard deviation of 21 FPS.

A 10-shot group group fired off the bench from my Lothar-Walther barreled AR-15 at a distance of 100 yards had an extreme spread of 0.95”.

….

 

[Molon]

Black Hills MK262 Mod1 Ammunition

The 77 grain MK262 ammunition produced by Black Hills Ammunition has been referred to as the most accurate mass-produced 5.56mm ammunition that has ever been type-classified and issued by the US military. Since its inception, genuine MK262 has been manufactured solely by Black Hills Ammunition. For years, MK262 was only available to the civilian population as “seconds,” but more recently Black Hills has made first-run production lots available on the commercial market. It is the first-run version of MK262 Mod 1 that I tested for this report.

MK262 Mod 1 is loaded in WCC 5.56mm brass and uses a cannelured version of the 77 grain Sierra MatchKing. The round is charged with a proprietary ball powder. The primer pockets are crimped and sealed. Contrary to erroneous information that has been posted on the Internet, MK262 Mod 1 does not have case-mouth sealant.

The 77 grain MK262 Mod 1 projectile compared to the M193 projectile.

MK262 powder. (The squares of the red grid measure 1/10 of an inch.)

Velocity


I chronographed the Black Hills 5.56mm MK262 Mod 1 ammunition from a semi-automatic AR-15 with a chrome-lined, NATO chambered 20” Colt M16A2 barrel.

Chronographing was conducted using an Oehler 35-P chronograph with “proof screen” technology. The Oehler 35P chronograph is actually two chronographs in one package that takes two separate chronograph readings for each shot and then has its onboard computer analyze the data to determine if there is any statistically significant difference between the two readings. If there is, the chronograph “flags” the shot to let you know that the data is invalid. There was no invalid data flagged during this testing.

The velocity stated below is the muzzle velocity as calculated from the instrumental velocity using Oehler’s Ballistic Explorer software program. The string of fire consisted of 10 rounds over the chronograph.

Each round was single-loaded and cycled into the chamber from a magazine fitted with a single-load follower. The bolt locked-back after each shot allowing the chamber to cool in between each shot. This technique was used to mitigate the possible influence of “chamber-soak” on velocity data. Each new shot was fired in a consistent manner after hitting the bolt release. Atmospheric conditions were monitored and recorded using a Kestrel 4000 Pocket Weather Tracker.

Atmospheric conditions

Temperature: 79 degrees F

Humidity: 37%

Barometric pressure: 30.12 inches of Hg

Elevation: 950 feet above sea level



The muzzle velocity for the 10-shot string of the Black Hills 5.56mm MK262 Mod 1 ammunition fired from the 20” Colt barrel was 2848 FPS with a standard deviation of 10 FPS and a coefficient of variation of 0.35%

For those of you who might not be familiar with the coefficient of variation (CV), it is the standard deviation, divided by the mean (average) muzzle velocity and then multiplied by 100 and expressed as a percentage. It allows for the comparison of the uniformity of velocity between loads in different velocity spectrums; e.g. 77 grain loads running around 2,650 fps compared to 55 grain loads running around 3,250 fps.

For comparison (and to give you an idea of how good the CV is for this factory loaded MK262 Mod 1 ammunition) the mil-spec for M193 allows for a coefficient of variation of approximately 1.2%, while one of my best 77 grain OTM hand-loads, with a muzzle velocity of 2639 PFS and a standard deviation of 4 FPS, has a coefficient of variation of 0.15%.

Accuracy

The specification for the accuracy/precision portion of the lot-acceptance-testing of MK262 calls for multiple 10shot groups to be fired from machine-rested, heavy test barrels. I conducted an accuracy (technically, precision) evaluation of the first-run MK262 Mod 1 ammunition following my usual protocol. This accuracy evaluation used statistically significant shot-group sizes and every single shot in a fired group was included in the measurements. There was absolutely no use of any Group Reduction Techniques (e.g. fliers, target movement, Butterfly Shots).

The shooting set-up will be described in detail below. As many of the significant variables as was practicable were controlled for. Also, a control group was fired from the test-rifle used in the evaluation using match-grade, hand-loaded ammunition; in order to demonstrate the capability of the barrel. Pictures of shot-groups are posted for documentation.

All shooting was conducted from a concrete bench-rest from a distance of 100 yards (confirmed with a laser rangefinder.) The barrel used in the evaluation was free-floated. The free-float handguards of the rifle rested in a Sinclair Windage Benchrest, while the stock of the rifle rested in a Protektor bunny-ear rear bag. Sighting was accomplished via a Leupold VARI-X III set at 25X magnification and adjusted to be parallax-free at 100 yards. A mirage shade was attached to the top of the free-float hand-guard. Wind conditions on the shooting range were continuously monitored using a Wind Probe. The set-up was very similar to that pictured below.

The Wind Probe.

The test vehicle for this evaluation was one of my semi-automatic precision AR-15s with a 20” stainless-steel Lothar Walther barrel. The barrel has a 223 Wylde chamber with a 1:8” twist.

Prior to firing the MK262 ammunition, I fired a 10-shot control group using match-grade hand-loads topped with the Sierra 77 grain MatchKing. That group had an extreme spread of 0.69”.

Three 10-shot groups of the MK262 Mod 1 were fired in a row with the resulting extreme spreads (from smallest to largest):

0.96”

1.12”

1.21”

for a 10-shot group average extreme spread of 1.10”. The three 10-shot groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius for the 30-shot composite group was 0.33”.



The smallest 10-shot group.

The 30-shot composite group.

 

[357Max]

@deersniper - Molon will cringe at this, but if you want to roll the dice. Not a bad deal right now and in stock.

I'll buy your empties provided they still have a primer in them

 

[deersniper]

@deersniper - Molon will cringe at this, but if you want to roll the dice. Not a bad deal right now and in stock.

I'll buy your empties provided they still have a primer in them

View attachment 7937891

What’s the accuracy , sd, Es like ? 1.50 is still steep for 223.

Why it’s the same price as match 6cm is sickitating

 

[357Max]

Also FWIW. This is the recent lot of Razorcore I've been seeing pretty good results with.

Bench, bipod, bag. The Sig was 200fps slower than the Razorcore. PMC was 150fps slower.

 

[357Max]

What’s the accuracy , sd, Es like ? 1.50 is still steep for 223.

Why it’s the same price as match 6cm is sickitating

I haven't shot any of the Berger??? Molon did (can't remember if it was the 77 or 73?) & it blew his gun up, that's why I said it's a roll of the dice. I'd think Berger got their shit together on this load by now.

Edit: I just checked & confirmed it was the Berger 77 that went kaboom in Molon's gun.
Link to thread. https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...m-tactical-factory-loaded-ammunition.7086892/

 

[Molon]

What’s the accuracy , sd, Es like ?

I'm not quite sure how to calculate the standard deviation on this . . .

.....

 

[Near miss]

I think the bergers are close to hand loaded ammo. Surely great potential.*


So I talked with my lawyer, here is the disclaimer:
*Shoot Berger 223 ammo on your own responsibility. Near Miss or his aliases are not to be blamed for any destroyed limbs, organs, pets or other material or personnel injuries.

 

[357Max]

I think the bergers are close to hand loaded ammo. Surely great potential.

If their QA/QC is up to snuff sure, but the powder charge ES was pathetic on the batch Molon had.

The thing that sketches me out is the lack of proper response from Berger. I think they offered to make Molon whole on his issue, but I've not seen a reply as to what went wrong & what they have done (if anything) to ensure is corrected.

 

[Molon]

If their QA/QC is up to snuff sure, but the powder charge ES was pathetic on the batch Molon had.

The thing that sketches me out is the lack of proper response from Berger. I think they offered to make Molon whole on his issue, but I've not seen a reply as to what went wrong & what they have done (if anything) to ensure is corrected.

They did finally offer, but they still stuck with their BS story about "cycling issues" in AR-15s.

Now they need to take care of BuildingConceptsllc

Well if there was any doubt about @Molon 's findings there won't be anymore.

I am at the range and doing seating depth test on a CLE -AR223. I wasn't as sighted in with the 75gr bullet I was shooting as I thought, and my few sighters I loaded weren't enough. The only other ammo I had was the Berger otm (which shoots lights out in my bolt gun), so I decided to use a few rounds to dial in before starting the seating depth test.

I had my crono on and you can see the speed. This is what happened on the 3rd shot with that ammo. I have shot my handloads, (MV of 2907) which run faster and are 2 gr lighter bullet without any pressure signs. I did a pressure check last week and went with 24.2 gr of TAC. Not sure what's in these Berger but I obviously didn't shoot anymore of that and will be calling them to swap out all of this ammo

.

 

[357Max]

This is exactly why I'm about to start loading for 223. Blaster ammo sure factory it is. Match ammo is to damn expensive, hard to find, & limited options.

I just need to decide what powder to start with. I have Tac, XBR, & Reloader 15.5 on hand. I'll probably give the 15.5 + 77 TMK a try to start.

Considering I've got 3 new 223W barrels on deck 10.5" - 20". Buying factory would get expensive and frustrating pretty quick.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

They did finally offer, but they still stuck with their BS story about "cycling issues" in AR-15s.

Now they need to take care of BuildingConceptsllc

To be fair, they did put out a notice recall for that ammo and said to only shoot it in bolt guns. I guess I forgot that's what they said in their recall notice , which was a little different than what they said on the phone when all of this was going on with molons episode. I'm thankful it didn't blow my gun up and would just like all of that ammo replaced (I think all of what I have may be within the lots they list). My gun seems fine. I shot my hand loads I had to test after that happened and gave it a good once over at the range and again at home.

However, I'm not sure those are safe even in a bolt gun, though I've not had any trouble with them in my bolt gun. Any ammo with that much of a swing in powder charge isn't what I want to shoot anyway, even if they do make tiny little groups at 100yds (which they do).

 

[nn8734]

That has been my experience as well. The catch is AA2520 is temp sensitive, so be careful on the upper end of what's safe in your rifle.

Yep, it’s a bit sensitive but less so than TAC which is what i used to run and which had to be run at/edge of pressure to perform where as 2520 does not. 25.4g is where im at pressure so I run 24.8-25g and even in the middle of the summer its good to go (im in Vegas). I use the same exact load in all my ARs and mk12. I avg’d 2810 fps out of the mk12 last time i clocked it with the LabRadar.

 

[bfoosh006]

FWIW, I don't use the Hornady Superformance 5.56 75gr , except in a true 5.56 chamber with a rifle length gas system.

https://www.hornady.com/support/superformance-in-gas-operated-firearms

The link has some rather vague charts, but it does show enough to make me not use it in a mid-length gas system and certainly not in a carbine length gas system. Decide for yourself.

And I wouldn't use it with a suppressor.

I wish MagTech still produced the Mk262 clone.

IMI produces a good enough clone for me, and it is available. The IMI might not be as precise as a handload... but the 77gr bullet still cheats the wind darned good for a 5.56 factory load with good velocities.

 

[roostercogburn98]

I’ve done ok with IMI razor core out to 500 yards in my gas gun. I have had a quite a few light strikes with it in both my gas gun and my bolt gun.

 

[AMERICANRIFLE]

Black Hills MK262 Mod1 Ammunition

The 77 grain MK262 ammunition produced by Black Hills Ammunition has been referred to as the most accurate mass-produced 5.56mm ammunition that has ever been type-classified and issued by the US military. Since its inception, genuine MK262 has been manufactured solely by Black Hills Ammunition. For years, MK262 was only available to the civilian population as “seconds,” but more recently Black Hills has made first-run production lots available on the commercial market. It is the first-run version of MK262 Mod 1 that I tested for this report.

MK262 Mod 1 is loaded in WCC 5.56mm brass and uses a cannelured version of the 77 grain Sierra MatchKing. The round is charged with a proprietary ball powder. The primer pockets are crimped and sealed. Contrary to erroneous information that has been posted on the Internet, MK262 Mod 1 does not have case-mouth sealant.

The 77 grain MK262 Mod 1 projectile compared to the M193 projectile.

MK262 powder. (The squares of the red grid measure 1/10 of an inch.)

Velocity


I chronographed the Black Hills 5.56mm MK262 Mod 1 ammunition from a semi-automatic AR-15 with a chrome-lined, NATO chambered 20” Colt M16A2 barrel.

Chronographing was conducted using an Oehler 35-P chronograph with “proof screen” technology. The Oehler 35P chronograph is actually two chronographs in one package that takes two separate chronograph readings for each shot and then has its onboard computer analyze the data to determine if there is any statistically significant difference between the two readings. If there is, the chronograph “flags” the shot to let you know that the data is invalid. There was no invalid data flagged during this testing.

The velocity stated below is the muzzle velocity as calculated from the instrumental velocity using Oehler’s Ballistic Explorer software program. The string of fire consisted of 10 rounds over the chronograph.

Each round was single-loaded and cycled into the chamber from a magazine fitted with a single-load follower. The bolt locked-back after each shot allowing the chamber to cool in between each shot. This technique was used to mitigate the possible influence of “chamber-soak” on velocity data. Each new shot was fired in a consistent manner after hitting the bolt release. Atmospheric conditions were monitored and recorded using a Kestrel 4000 Pocket Weather Tracker.

Atmospheric conditions

Temperature: 79 degrees F

Humidity: 37%

Barometric pressure: 30.12 inches of Hg

Elevation: 950 feet above sea level



The muzzle velocity for the 10-shot string of the Black Hills 5.56mm MK262 Mod 1 ammunition fired from the 20” Colt barrel was 2848 FPS with a standard deviation of 10 FPS and a coefficient of variation of 0.35%

For those of you who might not be familiar with the coefficient of variation (CV), it is the standard deviation, divided by the mean (average) muzzle velocity and then multiplied by 100 and expressed as a percentage. It allows for the comparison of the uniformity of velocity between loads in different velocity spectrums; e.g. 77 grain loads running around 2,650 fps compared to 55 grain loads running around 3,250 fps.

For comparison (and to give you an idea of how good the CV is for this factory loaded MK262 Mod 1 ammunition) the mil-spec for M193 allows for a coefficient of variation of approximately 1.2%, while one of my best 77 grain OTM hand-loads, with a muzzle velocity of 2639 PFS and a standard deviation of 4 FPS, has a coefficient of variation of 0.15%.

Accuracy

The specification for the accuracy/precision portion of the lot-acceptance-testing of MK262 calls for multiple 10shot groups to be fired from machine-rested, heavy test barrels. I conducted an accuracy (technically, precision) evaluation of the first-run MK262 Mod 1 ammunition following my usual protocol. This accuracy evaluation used statistically significant shot-group sizes and every single shot in a fired group was included in the measurements. There was absolutely no use of any Group Reduction Techniques (e.g. fliers, target movement, Butterfly Shots).

The shooting set-up will be described in detail below. As many of the significant variables as was practicable were controlled for. Also, a control group was fired from the test-rifle used in the evaluation using match-grade, hand-loaded ammunition; in order to demonstrate the capability of the barrel. Pictures of shot-groups are posted for documentation.

All shooting was conducted from a concrete bench-rest from a distance of 100 yards (confirmed with a laser rangefinder.) The barrel used in the evaluation was free-floated. The free-float handguards of the rifle rested in a Sinclair Windage Benchrest, while the stock of the rifle rested in a Protektor bunny-ear rear bag. Sighting was accomplished via a Leupold VARI-X III set at 25X magnification and adjusted to be parallax-free at 100 yards. A mirage shade was attached to the top of the free-float hand-guard. Wind conditions on the shooting range were continuously monitored using a Wind Probe. The set-up was very similar to that pictured below.

The Wind Probe.

The test vehicle for this evaluation was one of my semi-automatic precision AR-15s with a 20” stainless-steel Lothar Walther barrel. The barrel has a 223 Wylde chamber with a 1:8” twist.

Prior to firing the MK262 ammunition, I fired a 10-shot control group using match-grade hand-loads topped with the Sierra 77 grain MatchKing. That group had an extreme spread of 0.69”.

Three 10-shot groups of the MK262 Mod 1 were fired in a row with the resulting extreme spreads (from smallest to largest):

0.96”

1.12”

1.21”

for a 10-shot group average extreme spread of 1.10”. The three 10-shot groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius for the 30-shot composite group was 0.33”.



The smallest 10-shot group.

The 30-shot composite group.

Why did you not shoot the IMI "Razorcore" 77 grain thru the same barrel that you tested the Black Hills Mark 262 Mod 1? Is it because you wanted everyone to think that the Black Hills is better ammo??? Your tests are usually excellent except for this one as I don't think you were giving the IMI ammo a fair shake!

 

[AMERICANRIFLE]

It’s unobtanium right now. I heard it was because Sierra raised the prices of the SMK bullet to the point it was unprofitable for MagTec to make anymore.

I have tried Frontier 75 grain match in my Geissele 16” Super Duty with very good results.

I had a blown primer (loaded too hot) with the Frontier 75 grain match, so I am sitting on about 1000 rounds...so I can never risk using them again. I don't feel like damaging my rifle or my body or someone next to me!!!

 

[Riverlife87]

Bought some of the freedom 77 OTMs. What a mistake. Averaged 2450 out of a 18” barrel. Same barrel is shooting in the 2700-2800 with most others. Stay away.

 

[deersniper]

I had a blown primer (loaded too hot) with the Frontier 75 grain match, so I am sitting on about 1000 rounds...so I can never risk using them again. I don't feel like damaging my rifle or my body or someone next to me!!!

Il buy them if you want to sell. I like the hot stuff.

 

[the monk]

I have found that PMC X-TAC Match 77g Sierra OTM is a fantastic substitute for Mk262.

 

[Molon]

Why did you not shoot the IMI "Razorcore" 77 grain thru the same barrel that you tested the Black Hills Mark 262 Mod 1? Is it because you wanted everyone to think that the Black Hills is better ammo??? Your tests are usually excellent except for this one as I don't think you were giving the IMI ammo a fair shake

And runner-up for The Most Retarded Post of the Year Award goes to . . . AMERICANRIFLE!!


a. I did test the accuracy of both of those loads from the same barrel.

From the Black Hills MK262 Mod 1 post: “The test vehicle for this evaluation was one of my semi-automatic precision AR-15s with a 20” stainless-steel Lothar Walther barrel.”

From the IMI Razor Core 77 grain post: “A 10-shot group fired off the bench from my Lothar-Walther barreled AR-15.”

b. I’ve owned more than 60 different AR-15 barrels, so absolutely some loads will be tested from different barrels than other loads.

....

 

[fdkay]

What’s the best mk262 clone?

Have a ar set up for 262 but don’t want to blow through 2-300 rounds of it in a match.
What’s the best clone ?

Magtech used to make a good MK262 clone, I don't believe they make it right now, however, I believe that S&B and Magtech are under the same umbrella and this is likely it

Sellier & Bellot Tactical 5.56x45 mm NATO Ammo 77 Gr HPBT - Ammo Deals

Sellier & Bellot Tactical 5.56x45 mm NATO Ammo 77 Grain HPBT for sale at Target Sports USA. Enjoy free shipping on bulk 5.56mm ammunition online.

www.targetsportsusa.com

 

[AMERICANRIFLE]

And runner-up for The Most Retarded Post of the Year Award goes to . . . AMERICANRIFLE!!


a. I did test the accuracy of both of those loads from the same barrel.

From the Black Hills MK262 Mod 1 post: “The test vehicle for this evaluation was one of my semi-automatic precision AR-15s with a 20” stainless-steel Lothar Walther barrel.”

From the IMI Razor Core 77 grain post: “A 10-shot group fired off the bench from my Lothar-Walther barreled AR-15.”

b. I’ve owned more than 60 different AR-15 barrels, so absolutely some loads will be tested from different barrels than other loads.

....

So I stand corrected Molon! Sorry, did not mean to ruffle your feathers. So for the price difference, I would think that the IMI 77 grain "Razorcore" is the better ammo. Black Hills pricing is WAY TOO HIGH for those of us who do not reload. As I stated your tests are excellent, and no reason to insult me as I am a fellow shooting enthusiast. I would like to see a test of the S&B 77 grain "Tactical" ammo from you, if you would be so kind. I just shoot American rifles in F-class (target rifle) at 300 yards, and military match at 200 yards. I have a Ruger Precision Rifle in 5.56 for F-class, and a Colt Delta HBAR clone that I use in the military match.

 

[AMERICANRIFLE]

Il buy them if you want to sell. I like the hot stuff.

I could not in good conscience sell them to anyone to shoot as they might be injured if they use them!!

 

[mewillis]

Magtech used to make a good MK262 clone

Yes, I still have some and it's good ammo and accurate too.

 

[smoothy8500]

Deleted

 

[n2ishun]

ADI and Australian outback ammo both used to have 77 gr SMK match ammo.
I can only find it in 69 SMK now.
But, it's good stuff.
Have also had very good luck with PMC X-tac match with the 77gr SMK.
Obviously no problems with IMI razorcore here.
Here's another that no one has mentioned....I have used it with good results, sorry don't have any fancy numbers to blithely toss about.

Gorilla Ammunition .223 Rem 77gr. Sierra MatchKing© - 20 Round Box | Gorilla Ammunition

Gorilla Ammo | Buy .223 Remington Sierra Matchking© - 77 Grain | 20 Round Box | .223 REM ammo for sale

www.gorillaammo.com

 

[AMERICANRIFLE]

ADI and Australian outback ammo both used to have 77 gr SMK match ammo.
I can only find it in 69 SMK now.
But, it's good stuff.
Have also had very good luck with PMC X-tac match with the 77gr SMK.
Obviously no problems with IMI razorcore here.
Here's another that no one has mentioned....I have used it with good results, sorry don't have any fancy numbers to blithely toss about.

Gorilla Ammunition .223 Rem 77gr. Sierra MatchKing© - 20 Round Box | Gorilla Ammunition

Gorilla Ammo | Buy .223 Remington Sierra Matchking© - 77 Grain | 20 Round Box | .223 REM ammo for sale

www.gorillaammo.com

I have been using the ADI 55 grain "blitzking" in military matches at 200 yards. Very accurate and reliable in my Colt Delta HBAR clone 20" heavy factory barrel with 1/7 twist. Have also been using the Norma 77 Golden Target Match in the F-class match (T/R) at 300 yards with my Ruger Precision Rifle with good results. I am 69 years young and have been shooting competitively since I was 8 years old with my Dad and 2 brothers. My oldest brother attained "High Master" classification in High Power Rifle from the NRA, and I attained my Master classification as well. Gold Medalist "Vic Auer" was our shooting coach and introduced us to the world of shooting sports!

 

[6.5SH]

I could not in good conscience sell them to anyone to shoot as they might be injured if they use them!!

Keep them in a cooler with a blue ice pack or use them in colder times of the year. Sadly is a common issue with the Frontier products and warm/hot temperatures.

 

[AMERICANRIFLE]

Keep them in a cooler with a blue ice pack or use them in colder times of the year. Sadly is a common issue with the Frontier products and warm/hot temperatures.

I was just lucky that my firearm was not damaged, or my body when the primer blew. It was a cleaning nightmare, and just glad no one was next to me. Highly disappointed in Frontier as I was happy with their pricing. I tend to favor German and Australian ammo after that incident. The most accurate ammo I ever fired was IMI 168 SMK match ammo in an H&K SR9-T (Target semi-auto). From the bench at 100 yards I fired 5 shot group thru the same hole. I have never been able to do that with any other ammo or rifle. It was my brothers rifle (I wish it was mine) and he bought the rest of my IMI ammo from that lot for that rifle. Here is the shooting bio on Vic Auer and his shooting records that I think may still stand if anyone is interested (especially Molon)=https://web.archive.org/web/2020041...ence.com/olympics/athletes/au/vic-auer-1.html

 

[Phil McGrath]

23 - 24 gr of 8208 is where you will find nirvana

hmmm, I load for the Wife unit’s RR/NM AR/15 and I use 77SMK under 23.2 XBR in a LC 2017 case with a Fed primer. At the last ATC Match I discovered 5 cases missing there primers out of the 88rds fired. And no I didn’t scoop up someone else’s brass.

When I say missing I’m mean gone as there wasn’t even a shaving or primer anvil too be found in the lower.

I really like the load and it’s super accurate in the rifle, it’s fast at near 2800fps in a 20in tube with low ES/SD, but……… I’m going too back off too 23.0grn.

All of the other fired cases looked good, primers were just a little flat but still showed their round bevel around the edges. I got lucky the bolt face is still clean and unscathed.

 

[357Max]

hmmm, I load for the Wife unit’s RR/NM AR/15 and I use 77SMK under 23.2 XBR in a LC 2017 case with a Fed primer. At the last ATC Match I discovered 5 cases missing there primers out of the 88rds fired. And no I didn’t scoop up someone else’s brass.

When I say missing I’m mean gone as there wasn’t even a shaving or primer anvil too be found in the lower.

I really like the load and it’s super accurate in the rifle, it’s fast at near 2800fps in a 20in tube with low ES/SD, but……… I’m going too back off too 23.0grn.

All of the other fired cases looked good, primers were just a little flat but still showed their round bevel around the edges. I got lucky the bolt face is still clean and unscathed.

I just tried 23.3 of XBR with cci #41's on several different brass varieties & had no blown primers.
From an 18" proof with 77 smk
All same load of 23.3 & seated 1.858 bto
Sig brass = 2705
Win brass = 2740
IMI brass = 2768
PMC brass = 2763

Tried the Alliant TS 15.5, but could only get 25gr in the case compressed. A little slow at 2657, but it shot a .450" group.

Next up will be Starline brass XBR ladder 22.9 - 23.5 in .2 inc + seating 2.245 - 2.265
Also have some Vit N135 on the way to try.

 

[Bacarrat]

24gr XBR is the go to load for me. We have shot this load in over 10 rifles and it just hammers every single time.

 

[Keith E.]

I had a blown primer (loaded too hot) with the Frontier 75 grain match, so I am sitting on about 1000 rounds...so I can never risk using them again. I don't feel like damaging my rifle or my body or someone next to me!!!

AR,

Do you have the ammo marked as "Unsafe" so that your survivors won't possibly hurt themselves or sell it to someone that may possibly hurt themselves?

Keith

 

[AMERICANRIFLE]

AR,

Do you have the ammo marked as "Unsafe" so that your survivors won't possibly hurt themselves or sell it to someone that may possibly hurt themselves?

Keith

Yes, they all know not to use it and I have it so marked!

 

[AMERICANRIFLE]

Yes, they all know not to use it and I have it so marked!