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Re: MOA adjust

I don't suffer dumbfucks very well.....

On that note the 9X glass I was seeing 6mm bullet holes with today at 200 yards is FAR from anything "hubble".

A bagged up solid rifle for the purpose of not moving it while twisting an ele turret to visually confirm a quantity of adjustment in an optic equates to "benchie"?

Not quite right....is right.
 
Re: MOA adjust

Fortunatly I do suffer fools well enough
wink.gif


They has a certain entertainment value.

I would call you insufferable. I guess some feel all manly by cussing. Really added wieght to your agrument.
crazy.gif


Once again, because it seems when you are on a high horse you can see very well-

The version I oulined has its merits.

You dont have to do it.

I'm sure some would attempt your way, the one I outlined is far easier and does alot more.
 
Re: MOA adjust

You've no doubt worked extra hard to earn your stupidity.....congratulations?

You outlined a box test that gets a decent grasp on repeatability of scope turrets per returning to zero. Used that myself for that reason, but it doesn't accomplish much with using a mere fraction of the adjustment within a system, per the calibration of the erectors themselves.

I believe I've said twice now, and this being a third, that nothing replaces rounds down range to confirm or deny dope...and that's regarding the load itself vs. calc'd corrections, and regarding a scope's calibration as well.

I'm guessin' you missed that before......

My initial comments were to point out that not all scopes adjust precisely as many assume they do thus leading to confusion on corrections when relying on caculated data, and one way to prove that out is try the test I've outlined. Takes but only a few minutes, doesn't cost a single penny, and is easy enough that an average idiot of even your caliber could muddle through it....but you chose to let your female side shine bright and glean "benchie", "snarky", and "hubble" from it.

Jackass.......
 
Re: MOA adjust

Laughing-
I've seen your rants and tirades in other threads. I guess you impress a few, not those who have some experience but you do go on. You sort of blend arrogant geek with cherry tough guy. Classic.

I guess you have to make everything a penis waving contest but I would say after seeing your performances in other threads your momma should have told you not to wave your shortcomings around in public.

Zip it up Sparky, its just the internet. Perhaps your doctor should adjust your meds.

Oh, one last thing before I go, would you by any chance have a diminutive relative in Alaska?
 
Re: MOA adjust

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notquiteright</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Oh, one last thing before I go, would you by any chance have a diminutive relative in Alaska? </div></div>
 
Re: MOA adjust

Having an understanding for MOA, since most scopes and sights move in minutes of angle, would seem to be important to anyone having an interest in hitting where aimed. However, selling AR's at a store where I work part-time in Louisville, I'm convinced that most AR buyers are not at all interested in how their sights work. Rarely will they make any adjustment from the factory setting. In conversations with these folks, after the sell, I ask, did you zero your AR to be able to use its BDC. The typical response is, "what's a BDC". Kinda makes me wonder if advice anywhere but here is wasted on deaf ears. At any rate, I've enjoyed contributing to this thread, as well as hearing views from folks like notquiteright and Tripwire.
 
Re: MOA adjust

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notquiteright</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Laughing-
I've seen your rants and tirades in other threads. I guess you impress a few, not those who have some experience but you do go on. You sort of blend arrogant geek with cherry tough guy. Classic.

I guess you have to make everything a penis waving contest but I would say after seeing your performances in other threads your momma should have told you not to wave your shortcomings around in public.

Zip it up Sparky, its just the internet. Perhaps your doctor should adjust your meds.

Oh, one last thing before I go, would you by any chance have a diminutive relative in Alaska? </div></div>

Typical internet wannabe....spew crap unrelated to the discussion, insist you know it all, toss the first pathetic insult, pretend you didn't do it, haul out a "penis" comment or two from your lame bag of tricks, then cry victim when you get your ass kicked for it.

Amazed you would even want to hang around a place full of alpha types who pretty much know what they are talking about.

A fish out of water comes to mind.....

Don't worry I'm not related to Larry, but I'm seriously wondering if you're kin to another jackass of your same ilk out in Oregon.

Have you ever been to a Burning Man event on purpose, or bothered by the color blue, voted for a socialist?

Just curious.....
 
Re: MOA adjust

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maladat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColoWyo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
and so on to 1000 yards which would be .47 inches.</div></div>

You are right on so far. 1 MOA is .47" different from 1 IPHY at 1000 yards.

However, 40 MOA is 40*.47"=18.8" different from 40 IPHY at 1000 yards.

If you zero your scope at 100 yards, have 400" drop at 1000, and dial 40 MOA up you are aiming 18.8" high. Those half-inches add up when there are forty of them. </div></div>

That's probably the best way to explain it and I'm glad you did it that way. This should give people the correct ammo (well, correct math) when trying to explain why converting MOA to inches doesn't work at distance.

If that doesn't make sense, read it again, but slower.
 
Re: MOA adjust

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Once zeroed to distance, whatever it is, there is no need to consider .047 fraction.</div></div>

So Sterling,

I zero at 100 yards with my scope and then I want to go to 1000 yards, I don't need that fraction ?

Thanks for the insight...
wink.gif
 
Re: MOA adjust

One of the biggest problems that I have found, and have seen, when shooting at long range matches is at that distance the number 1 issue is that the adjustments of all the scopes are not the same. At closer ranges they will be pretty close, but the same adjustments on different scopes usually will just get you on paper (6ft square) and then you adjust for your individual scope. I have 2 different Leupold's, VX3 and a Mark4, both 6.5x20 and when I change them on the same rifle, in .308, I get about 3 MOA difference in the zero's. Most of the guys that I shoot with have slightly different sight setting, at 800, 900 and 1000 yards, even though we have tried each others loads. You really need to shoot your rifle on paper at the different distances to get good sight settings. If you have a good mounting set up, taking your scope off and putting it back on will not change your settings.
 
Re: MOA adjust

This is why you need to calibrate your scope and understand "its" adjustments.

Not all scopes are the same, and the thread pitches can vary causing serious issues downrange. It's a main cause of problems with Ballistic Programs as well as issues with people's dope. Where this shows up a lot is when, people from places with only short ranges available, travel to places with long distances shots. The deviation is usually from a scope. You need distance to demonstrate the error in most cases and you need to know what you are looking at.

Having two different scopes adjust in two different values is common, even more common is people who don't know how to calibrate their scope. This where gun writers of the past let shooters down by demonstrating accurate 8" square or smaller box tests. The errors may not show up for at least 20" or more so anything less is a waste of time. You should always check your scope to your rifle's max effective distance.
 
Re: MOA adjust

If you have a scope that is exactly MOA-accurate, then

1 moa at 100 yards = 1.047 inches.
1 moa at 1000 yards = 10.47 inches.

So if your drop is 400 inches at 1000 yards, then you need to adjust by about 38.2 moa. If you ASSUME 1 moa = 10 inches at 1000 yards, and end up adjusting by 40 moa, you will end up being about 1.8 moa off, which at 1000 yards is approximately 18.5 inches. Which is PRECISELY not good.

It is true that the difference between IPHY and MOA at 1000 yards is only 0.47" Not much. But you have to MULTIPLY that difference for EVERY MOA you dial at that range. And 0.47" * 40 = 18.8 inches.
 
Re: MOA adjust

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Once zeroed to distance, whatever it is, there is no need to consider .047 fraction.</div></div>

So Sterling,

I zero at 100 yards with my scope and then I want to go to 1000 yards, I don't need that fraction ?

Thanks for the insight...
wink.gif
</div></div>


Example: You are zeroed for 1000 and you need to adjust for wind, let's say 10 MOA, it won't matter squat whether you account for .047 or not.
 
Re: MOA adjust

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Once zeroed to distance, whatever it is, there is no need to consider .047 fraction.</div></div>

So Sterling,

I zero at 100 yards with my scope and then I want to go to 1000 yards, I don't need that fraction ?

Thanks for the insight...
wink.gif
</div></div>

Example: You are zeroed for 1000 and you need to adjust for wind, let's say 10 MOA, it won't matter squat whether you account for .047 or not.</div></div>

Hmm really,

So for me, it's not uncommon to need 3 Mils to 3.5 Mils of wind at 1000 yards, so if you convert using MOA you need 3.43, if you convert using inches you use 3.6 multiplied, you are saying I can forget that difference ? And let's put that in context of an F Class competition which I think has a 1/2 MOA "X" Ring.

I think a lot of F Class shooters would debate you on that oversight... IPHY versus MOA. If you only needed to adjust 1 MOA at the rifle, then sure... but as you start adding in wind, say a full value at 10+ MPH I think you might start to see a problem.
 
Re: MOA adjust

Taken a step further Sterling.

If you have a reticle that subtends in MOA and you use 100, instead of 95.5 which is the differences between IPHY and MOA, and you range an 20" Target at 2 MOA you get difference of 955 yards versus 1000 yards.

45 yards at 1000 yards with a 308, what is the danger space of that round at that distance ? By my dope, if I need 10.1 Mils to hit a 955 yard target, I need 11 mils to hit a 1000 yard target.
 
Re: MOA adjust

I'm talking about shooting at a known distance, which you've already established a no-wind zero and are using clicks, either on a true, or simple MOA graduated sight to adjust for wind rather than favor. And, in that typical scenero, .047 does not mean squat.
 
Re: MOA adjust

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm talking about shooting at a known distance, which you've already established a no-wind zero and are using clicks, either on a true, or simple MOA graduated sight to adjust for wind rather than favor. And, in that typical scenero, .047 does not mean squat. </div></div>

Which is why I suppose people who think they have MOA instead of IPHY can't figure out why their dope doesn't always match up.

But I see your point what is 5 pesky inches among friends, somewhere right now Brian Litz is having convulsions.
wink.gif
 
Re: MOA adjust

Cant speak for all F-Class shooters but I know quite a few who use the rings for figuring wind holds. No need to figure inch/moa/mil, you see where your last round hit and favor the opposite side. The wind shifts alot and dailing can be too slow. Some do read mirage downrange for any variance from last shot but most just shift their hold and go. (f-class gives you a few sighters to work out any base wind you wish to dail on before leaning)

The distance example doesnt need a great deal of math either. I have a come-up chart and can slice up the incremental value, between shot and recorded distances I have logged, to shoot the examples you give.

Many ways to skin this cat, some dont require alot of math.
 
Re: MOA adjust

Believing the bullet and adjusting is always the preferred way, but you are talking numbers then it is important to know the difference and how those differences effect your impact. I get it, adjust off your spotter in the target, but there is a difference between MOA and IPHY which at 1000 can cause a miss.

I read the reticle too, just in mils, not in Inches or MOA.
 
Re: MOA adjust

I think the solution is to think in terms of MOA or milliradians, and stop thinking about misses/dialing/anything in terms of inches, cm, feet, yards, metres, etc.
 
Re: MOA adjust

Here is the problem, mis-understanding and mis-labeled.

This is reality, you buy a scope that tells you it adjusts in 1/4MOA, so you take your new ballistic computer and you tell it, you are adjusting in MOA. Sweet, now you go to the range or go someplace you have never been before and dial up your scope as the computer suggests and you are way off. So you begin to question the computer, instead of understanding your scope is off. You in fact have an IPHY scope instead of MOA.

So, now you take your scope, which is said to be MOA/MOA and you range a target using x100 because they tell you that is the correct answer for an MOA/MOA scope. Now put that on top of your JBM derived MOA based drop and attempt to engage a target. Who knows, maybe you just traveled 500 miles for your first tactical match, investing time, money, hotels, etc. But instead you've just compounded your errors missing most of the day and we haven't even begun to talk to errors within the scope itself. Frustrated, you head home after a disappointing weekend out with your new high dollar rifle, scope, ballistic computer, the works.

Calibrating the scope, especially when paired with a ballistic program should be a priority, however if you just show up at your local range, shoot a few sighters, dial on target until the impact is good, and then shoot a few groups and move on to the next yard line, repeat the process and head on home after 4 hours of plinking, then none of this means squat and Sterling is absolutely correct. You can ignore a host of things. But that doesn't educate anyone now does it.

 
Re: MOA adjust

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm talking about shooting at a known distance, which you've already established a no-wind zero and are using clicks, either on a true, or simple MOA graduated sight to adjust for wind rather than favor. And, in that typical scenero, .047 does not mean squat. </div></div>

Which is why I suppose people who think they have MOA instead of IPHY can't figure out why their dope doesn't always match up.

But I see your point what is 5 pesky inches among friends, somewhere right now Brian Litz is having convulsions.
wink.gif
</div></div>

It might mean something if I could read wind perfectly, but I can't, and neither can you.
 
Re: MOA adjust

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Believing the bullet and adjusting is always the preferred way, </div></div>

Then again there very well may be other sticks out there like mine. I have a .308 that will be 35 fps faster on the cool bore shot compared to the next 7,(quick strings) then speed picks back up again after that, very, very repeatable.
My 300wm will do the same thing except it's 40-45fps for the first but the rest hold true.
If you start at 600 and under those speeds mean nothing, but when you start far an work in, it does. The program I use is OK, but lead on steel does not know how to twist the truth.

Like Frank say's,....It matter's little what the mfg's say, if you don't check an record/remember <span style="font-weight: bold">Your</span> gear,....the only thing you lose is time, money and where you place on a one way.

I find the longer/more I shoot, there's more Onion left to peel.
 
Re: MOA adjust

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm talking about shooting at a known distance, which you've already established a no-wind zero and are using clicks, either on a true, or simple MOA graduated sight to adjust for wind rather than favor. And, in that typical scenero, .047 does not mean squat. </div></div>

Which is why I suppose people who think they have MOA instead of IPHY can't figure out why their dope doesn't always match up.

But I see your point what is 5 pesky inches among friends, somewhere right now Brian Litz is having convulsions.
wink.gif
</div></div>

It might mean something if I could read wind perfectly, but I can't, and neither can you.</div></div>


Well I supposed when you only limit your "squat" statement to one variable under one set of circumstances, like KD, where you "zeroed" to range, then with all those qualifiers, "squat" is perfectly reasonable.

Now what happens when you want to go longer than 1000 yards, yet you ignore this stuff and begins to compound even more, I suppose it is time to re-think those qualifying statements.

I would rather know, understand, be able to adjust for and identify where and why, then to run with the "squat' mindset.
 
Re: MOA adjust

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is why you need to calibrate your scope and understand "its" adjustments.

Not all scopes are the same, and the thread pitches can vary causing serious issues downrange. It's a main cause of problems with Ballistic Programs as well as issues with people's dope. Where this shows up a lot is when, people from places with only short ranges available, travel to places with long distances shots. The deviation is usually from a scope. You need distance to demonstrate the error in most cases and you need to know what you are looking at.

Having two different scopes adjust in two different values is common, even more common is people who don't know how to calibrate their scope. This where gun writers of the past let shooters down by demonstrating accurate 8" square or smaller box tests. The errors may not show up for at least 20" or more so anything less is a waste of time. <span style="font-weight: bold">You should always check your scope to your rifle's max effective distance</span>. </div></div>

Fair to say a light bulb just went on in my head about one potential reason why the difference between what the software said and why what I dialed produced an over or under miss...never overly considered the calibration issue, and have wrongly assumed a 3-4 mil or moa box test at 100m to be sufficient.

Frank, per your comment above (in bold), if range is limited (say 100m) would it be a effective calibration practice to box test your scope to its maximium adjustments at that range? I'm hazarding that while it's great to collect dope at all ranges out to max effective, there are environmental variables (not to mention shooter ones...) that effect drop which means testing for scope calibration at long ranges may be rendered less effective?

Bear with me..

Cheers mate, Justin
 
Re: MOA adjust

this very issue came up in the Webinar put on by Cory Trapp of Gunsite, during the class on Field Firing Solution. In fact FFS has a utility to help you calibrate your scope, why, because to paraphrase Cory, it's that important.

Box testing @ 100m is simple, you can do it without firing a single shot. And doing so over 36" or say, 11 mils should not be too hard. Two sheets of your standard poster board vertically stacked should suffice. <span style="font-style: italic">(usually 24" each)</span>

It's quite simple and has been demonstrated in several scope reviews on here. At the very bottom put an aiming point. Then with a mark roughly 40"+/- up, dial the scope. Now, you may want to aim the scope at the top mark moving it until it reaches the bottom dot, or you can do like Cory suggest using a laser bore sight, keep the bottom dot in the reticle until the bore points to the top dot. <span style="font-style: italic">(you know where the bullet goes)</span> Then simply figure the adjustment necessary to reach that point. FFS has a handy little tool, even does the math for you. This is why almost all ballistic programs feature an offset setting, so when you know your scope actually adjusts .26" or .23" or that is loses 5% of it's adjustment as you go up in elevation you can account for this accordingly. Scope manufacturers will tell you they generally expect up to 3% error in adjustments, so if they say 3, you can figure 6%. You're mileage may vary.

Can your scope dial around an 8" piece of paper and return to zero, well first off I hope so, because secondly, you really haven't moved it all that much. The question is, if you are losing 5% what does that look like at 1000 yards, I promise it is not "squat", especially if you are mixing things like MOA vs IPHY on top of your error.

Now caveat, if you simply shoot, see the impact and dial your scope calling it as zeroed at distance because you are shooting paper with a guy in the pits plotting your shots for you, then none of this matters one bit. Carry on.
 
Re: MOA adjust

Every time highpower guys and practical precision guys talk about this it goes the same...

Frank's last sentence of the above post points out the direct difference in the approach taken by the coat and sling crowd.
While I highly respect the Highpower crowd's knowledge and ability, their steadfast use of clicks off of a no wind zero on an iron sight setup blows me away. Most of them can tell me off the top of their head how mans clicks off the bottom their 200 zero is, then how many more to 300 and then to 600, but when you start talking what the moa involved are (or even better-mils) the conversation usually goes south.



I too am amazed when seemingly bright folks think that the 5% difference between IPHY and MOA is represented by .5" at 1K, not the reality of .5" per every moa dialed.

These were issues that I remember talking with Blaine avbout on the "multi rev" segment of PWS's software. Now, as Frank pointed out any ballistic program worth its salt can be set up to give you what your actual adjustment is.
 
Re: MOA adjust

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Every time highpower guys and practical precision guys talk about this it goes the same...

Frank's last sentence of the above post points out the direct difference in the approach taken by the coat and sling crowd.
While I highly respect the Highpower crowd's knowledge and ability, their steadfast use of clicks off of a no wind zero on an iron sight setup blows me away. Most of them can tell me off the top of their head how mans clicks off the bottom their 200 zero is, then how many more to 300 and then to 600, but when you start talking what the moa involved are (or even better-mils) the conversation usually goes south.



I too am amazed when seemingly bright folks think that the 5% difference between IPHY and MOA is represented by .5" at 1K, not the reality of .5" per every moa dialed.

These were issues that I remember talking with Blaine avbout on the "multi rev" segment of PWS's software. Now, as Frank pointed out any ballistic program worth its salt can be set up to give you what your actual adjustment is.</div></div>

I'm all for having an understanding about the value of ones sight graduations, it's basic marksmanship. And, for me, adjusting a sight for a no wind pin wheel X hit at LR, whether using irons or optic is not a problem. Holding pinwheel X elevation and windage however is not so easy. Less than perfect results can be analyzed to reveal a multitude of errors, like inconsistent butt to shoulder placement, stockweld, trigger control, follow through, sight alignment, perception of hold, and maintenance of hold. In addition, wind and weather effects not countered perfectly will preclude the desired results. The point is, for the best results, you need to put it all together, that's to say, come to an understanding for everything important to the integrated act of firing.

Regarding clicking for wind or favoring, the reason HP shooters are stubborn about clicking rather than favoring at LR is simple, it's a more accurate means of understanding where the barrel is pointed when using iron sights. It also allows the shooter to maintain a sight picture where capitalizing on picture memory assures a consistent target/sight relationship.

Now, about knowing "squat", if I'm shooting at 1000 yards and call my shot right-in-there, discovering the bullet strike about 10 inches left from a pinwheel X, I might want to click in; and, no matter whether my sight is graduated in true 1/4 MOA clicks or simple 1/4 MOA clicks what am I going to do? I'm going to take 4 clicks. Even if I'm 20 inches off, I'm still going to take 8 clicks, no matter my sight graduation reality. This is what I mean when I say it does not mean squat, unless you're way off target, then, if you've got true MOA, you might want to account for it. Still, using a sight graduated in true MOA and accounting in simple MOA to make a gross 100 inch correction, you'd only over-shoot about 5 inches. If you're shooting at something where that 5 inches might mean a miss, certainly you'd want to account for it correctly, like taking 38 clicks instead of 40. Use your brain, do what's needed, and understand what may be moot.




 
Re: MOA adjust

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this very issue came up in the Webinar put on by Cory Trapp of Gunsite, during the class on Field Firing Solution. In fact FFS has a utility to help you calibrate your scope, why, because to paraphrase Cory, it's that important.

Box testing @ 100m is simple, you can do it without firing a single shot. And doing so over 36" or say, 11 mils should not be too hard. Two sheets of your standard poster board vertically stacked should suffice. <span style="font-style: italic">(usually 24" each)</span>
</div></div>

here is the chart... simple to use, best part, you don't have to fire a shot.
scopecalibrationchart.jpg
 
Re: MOA adjust

Interestingly, I usually zero for 1000 yards at 100 yards. I do this by chronographing my load, and then, with ballistics program, determine bullet path at 100 yards above line of sight which will intersect line of sight at 1000 yards. I mark the bullet path at 100, which let's say I know needs to be 36 inches above aiming point, and then, through trial and error, I will adjust my sight to get that 36 inch high bullet placement. Once satisfied my grouping is right-on I will count clicks down to my 100 yard zero. Usually. I'm in the 10 ring at 1000 first shot out. Since, sometimes I shoot at 1000 with a match rifle I seldom have a sight radius which yields a graduation coming out to 1/4 minute, but is not quite 1/3 minute either, so counting clicks to resolve actual value is helpful.
 
Re: MOA adjust

Wow that is impressive SS to be in the 10 ring at 1k most of the time. If you ever decided to shoot a tactical style match you would win every single one you enter shooting like that. What is the size of the 10 ring at 1k?
 
Re: MOA adjust

20 inches, and it's not difficult at all with a match rifle. It is sketchy with my Service Rifle, but that's because I can not use a 6 o'clock hold unless conditions are ideal. Also, zeroing for the AR with a 6 o'clock hold at 100 does not quite work out mathematically for a 6 o'clock hold at 1000, since the 1000 yard NRA target's bullseye does not scale to the MR-31 I use at 100. Recently, I've remedied this by substituting a handmade 4.4 inch bulleseye for use at 100.