MOA at sub 100 ranges

[KeeblerArmy]

MOA is pretty easy to figure out at 100 yard increments, but how do you go about reckoning it at shorter ranges like 25, 50 or 75 yards?

 

[callen3615]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

This is how i do it, might be wrong but it seems logical.

So 1 inch at 100 is 1 moa right? 4 inches at 100 is 4 moa right? 4in/1=4moa

So say you have a 1 inch circle at 50 yards, 1/.5=2 moa.

1inch at 25yd 1/.25= 4 moa.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

Fractions my friend.

MOA (IPHY):
1" @ 100 yards
2" @ 200 yards
3" @ 300 yards

so on and so fourth...

For 100 yards, figure, 1/1 or 100% which is equal to 1 in math terms. 200 yards is 2/1 or 200% which is twice as much as 100% or in other words 2. Therefore at 200 yards MOA (IPHY) is equal to 2"

The same theory applies to every distance you can think of. It is all fractions.

So, to answer your question, with distance under 100 yards, you are working with fractions still.

50 yards is half of 100 yards and therefore is 1/2 the distance. MOA at 50 yards will be half of what MOA is at 100 yards. Therefore, MOA at 50 yards is half an inch. (1/2 = 0.5")

The same applies to 25 and 75 yards. 25 yards is 1/4 of 100 yards, and therefore MOA @ 25 yards is 0.25"

At 75 yards, you have 3/4 of 100 yards and therefore MOA will be 0.75"


I hope I explained that well enough.

Regards,
Dylan

 

[Early Cuyler]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

1 moa is ROUGHLY 1 inch (technically 1.045") at 100yds. But for sakes of this, lets say it is 1".

1"/100yds = x"/25yds

x=.25"


1"/100yds = x"/75yds

x =.75"


Gotta love algebra.

 

[Ridgeback80]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is how i do it, might be wrong but it seems logical.

So 1 inch at 100 is 1 moa right? 4 inches at 100 is 4 moa right? 4in/1=4moa

So say you have a 1 inch circle at 50 yards, 1/.5=2 moa.

1inch at 25yd 1/.25= 4 moa. </div></div>??????????????

 

[frog5215]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

You don't shot enough.
The ANGLE doesn't, but 1/2 MOA at 50, 100, 200 SHOTS is may be VERY different.

 

[frog5215]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

Double tap.

 

[Graham]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

MOA doesn't change.
http://www.mil-dot.com/media/1027/the_derivation_of_the_range_estimation_equations.pdf

But working inside of a short-range zero requires a knowledge of reverse offset.

 

[frog5215]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

As I said, the ANGLE doesn't.
Guns, as measured, tend to degrade with distance.

 

[KeeblerArmy]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

Terror and halcyon575 had the most straight forward answers.


Now what gets my brain wrapped around itself is taking something like .25" which automatically I think of as 1/4 MOA, moving it to 25yards where it is now 1 MOA, and then trying to reckon different MOA's from there.

It'll come with practice

Thanks guys

 

[Conaso]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

Yep, comments by Terror and halcyon575 are correct about a MOA. However, how about a practical application of the math employed. With targets at 200yds and 400 yards and the adjustment is 8" at 200yds and 20" at 400yds, then:
8" / (200yds/100yds)= 4MOA
20" / (400yds/100yds)= 5MOA adjustment on scope.

However, with targets at 25 and 50 yds, for 1" adjustment at both ranges:
1" / (25yds/100yds)= 4MOA
1" / (50yds/100yds)= 2MOA adjustment on scope.

1" / (75yds/100yds)=??? ... and if you had a scope with 1/8 clicks/MOA, it would be how many clicks adjustment?


If I'm in error, show your math!

 

[KeeblerArmy]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

1.5 moa, 12clicks.

 

[KeeblerArmy]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

This is why I prefer mil/ mil scopes

 

[OldmaninNeb]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

OK, I got mil/mil scope. 1mil=36"@1000yds... right?
its trying to figure out bullet drop @ varying distances I get confused. If my ammo says I drop 8.5 inches @ 300 yards, and my turret is in 1/10th mils... easy way of figuring??

 

[Kevlars]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

Get Field Firing Solutions or some other Ballistic software that will help. I figured out the math once and honestly unless you are doing it all the time .. you will confuse yourself. I ended up getting a Nomad and FFS IV ... never looked back.

Good Luck

 

[KeeblerArmy]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

What Kevlars said. There is software out there that will give you dope in mils. Don't worry about trying to convert, unless you already have dope in MOA maybe. My experience is that software will get you in the right ball park but you need to confirm some solid data points via shooting anyway before the program will do the magic for you.

What scope did you get out of curiosity?

 

[Early Cuyler]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KeeblerArmy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1.5 moa, 12clicks. </div></div>

Ummm I believe you meant 1.3333 moa and 11 clicks.

75yds/100yds =.75
1/.75 = 1.3333 moa

1.3333 moa/.125 moa = 10.6667 or eleven clicks with rounding.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: halcyon575</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KeeblerArmy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1.5 moa, 12clicks. </div></div>

Ummm I believe you meant 1.3333 moa and 11 clicks.

75yds/100yds =.75
1/.75 = 1.3333 moa

1.3333 moa/.125 moa = 10.6667 or eleven clicks with rounding.</div></div>
Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

 

[OldmaninNeb]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What scope did you get out of curiosity? </div></div>

It's a Bushnell Elite 10x mil/mil

and please, it's a 17hmr, not a 22

I'll figure it out, just wish there was an easier way.

how many wish they made a mildot scope with 10ths on it between the crosshairs and the 1st mil up?!

 

[OldmaninNeb]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

yeah, I could live with .2mil hash's .. pretty hard to judge .7 or .3 etc. wouldn't have to go between each mildot, just that first one above and either side of windage .
(It's a Volquartsen .17 and I couldn't be happier!)
500 ROUNDS due here tomorrow, I'll have my cheat sheet in short order

 

[GotCox]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

Alot of what your trying to figure out and learn with the mils, MOA and conversions can be tough. Here is a thread with some video's that explain it. Some in great depth, some very simple. Take your pick, but there is no way to watch these and not learn something.

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=429332

 

[OldmaninNeb]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

Thanks GotCox! I'll digest these n see how it goes. I did get a chance to put the Voltsquartsen to the test today, along with my mil-dot master and my shooter phone ap. Both were dead on and dialing half a mil was immensely more accurate than holding over.

 

[KeeblerArmy]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: popgunz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks GotCox! I'll digest these n see how it goes. I did get a chance to put the Voltsquartsen to the test today, along with my mil-dot master and my shooter phone ap. Both were dead on and dialing half a mil was immensely more accurate than holding over.
</div></div>

What ammo were you using out of curiosity

 

[azimutha]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: popgunz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, I got mil/mil scope. 1mil=36"@1000yds... right?
its trying to figure out bullet drop @ varying distances I get confused. If my ammo says I drop 8.5 inches @ 300 yards, and my turret is in 1/10th mils... easy way of figuring?? </div></div>

1 mil = 3.6" @ 100 yards. Multiply 3.6 X 300 yards = 10.8. Divide 8.5 x 10.8 = .787 mils. In tenths, that means rounding to and coming up 8/10ths.

 

[Pete E]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: popgunz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, I got mil/mil scope. 1mil=36"@1000yds... right?
its trying to figure out bullet drop @ varying distances I get confused. If my ammo says I drop 8.5 inches @ 300 yards, and my turret is in 1/10th mils... easy way of figuring?? </div></div>

Forget doing all the conversions and forget working out your drops in inches or CM for that matter..

To fully take up the Mil/Mil concept, get a print out of drops at a given distance in Mils..Any of the common Ballistic Calculators can be used to obtain this information, JBM being one of them..

The way you want to end up is that instead of thinking " its 460 yards to the target, how many inches is that? OK, table says its 76", how many Mils does that equal at 460 yards??..."

Instead, if your drop table is in Mils, simply read it off and either dial it in, or use the reticle to hold over the appropriate amount.

When you take the shot, if its off, use the reticle to measure how many mills up/down left/right you were out, and then dial (or adjust your hold over) to take into account the additional correction values.

With a FFP scope, these corrections will be correct at any magnification, and you don't have to do any further conversions or calculations for the range either..

 

[KeeblerArmy]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pete E</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: popgunz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, I got mil/mil scope. 1mil=36"@1000yds... right?
its trying to figure out bullet drop @ varying distances I get confused. If my ammo says I drop 8.5 inches @ 300 yards, and my turret is in 1/10th mils... easy way of figuring?? </div></div>

Forget doing all the conversions and forget working out your drops in inches or CM for that matter..

To fully take up the Mil/Mil concept, get a print out of drops at a given distance in Mils..Any of the common Ballistic Calculators can be used to obtain this information, JBM being one of them..

The way you want to end up is that instead of thinking " its 460 yards to the target, how many inches is that? OK, table says its 76", how many Mils does that equal at 460 yards??..."

Instead, if your drop table is in Mils, simply read it off and either dial it in, or use the reticle to hold over the appropriate amount.

When you take the shot, if its off, use the reticle to measure how many mills up/down left/right you were out, and then dial (or adjust your hold over) to take into account the additional correction values.

With a FFP scope, these corrections will be correct at any magnification, and you don't have to do any further conversions or calculations for the range either..



</div></div>

There needs to be a "like" button similar to FB

 

[OldmaninNeb]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

yeah, I agree.(like button) It is a ffP as it is a 10x scope.
This Volquartsen likes the 17gr. Hornady way over CCI's or either of the 20 grains. I'm working on the drop card. At 150 yards I need 5/10's mil to put me back on, but I can see wind speed will need recorded too...hell, I'm looking forward to it! I'm also wondering if the 17's need their own spot here, too much difference between .22 and .17. (own both of course)
On a side trip to San Diego, but already itching to get back on that nice range in Casa Grande.

 

[thomas r.]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

with my current setup i have 17mils of elevation and with a 50yard zero that sould get me out to a 330yrd zero.im using a savage mrk ii heavy barrel 22lr, 20moa base, low 30mm rings and falcon menace 4-14 mil/mil scope. on a good day low to no wind i can knock out sub moa at 100yrds, but ill average around 1-1.5in groups with cci std velocity ammo and using bulletflight L2.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: popgunz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm also wondering if the 17's need their own spot here, too much difference between .22 and .17. (own both of course)</div></div>
That's why it is called the "Sniper's Hide Rimfire Section" and not the "22 Long Rifle Section"

Because it just happens to be that the 22LR is just more popular than the 17HMR in <span style="text-decoration: underline">rimfire</span> circles. Ever notice how RFC has a dedicated section for 17HMR, yet the entire website is loosely centered on the 22LR??

 

[KeeblerArmy]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

That's deep.

 

[OldmaninNeb]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

heh heh heh If I had all that into my 22lr I'd be saying the same things! ... and who knows, my Nightforce 12x42 might just end up on it before I'm through playing around.
Still wish my scope had a breakdown in @ least .2mils, 1-10th mil sure opens up the group.

 

[KeeblerArmy]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

Unless you are some kind of operational ninja, it seems just wrong to put a NF on a rim fire

 

[OldmaninNeb]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

sorry, missed the '

 

[Pete E]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: popgunz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Still wish my scope had a breakdown in @ least .2mils, 1-10th mil sure opens up the group. </div></div>

While your reticle doesn't have .2Mil graduations, your turrets do, so why not dial those corrections in?

Personally, for rimfire use, I'm looking for a reticle with .5Mil graduations along the lines of the EMD reticle used by Falcon below:

I suspect that anything finer than this would be too easily lost when viewing against a dark or cluttered target, especially in poor light or when using lower magnifications on a variable.

 

[KeeblerArmy]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pete E</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: popgunz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Still wish my scope had a breakdown in @ least .2mils, 1-10th mil sure opens up the group. </div></div>

While your reticle doesn't have .2Mil graduations, your turrets do, so why not dial those corrections in?

Personally, for rimfire use, I'm looking for a reticle with .5Mil graduations along the lines of the EMD reticle used by Falcon below:

I suspect that anything finer than this would be too easily lost when viewing against a dark or cluttered target, especially in poor light or when using lower magnifications on a variable. </div></div>

This: http://swfa.com/Hawke-3-9x40-Panorama-Riflescope-P50909.aspx

It was what I was looking at getting before deciding to go with a Weaver tactical instead

 

[Pete E]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

KeeblerArmy,

Many thanks for that..I've been keeping an eye on Hawke scopes, particularly their "Sidewinder" series, but I've not seen a Panarama and didn't realise they were avaialble in the illuminated 1/2 Mil dot version.

I did see one of their Eclipse 30 SF a few weeks back and was not overly impressed with the build quality; it was "ok" but a far cry from the likes of Meopta, and I thought the scope was a bit over priced for what it was..

If the Panorama is the same build quality, I think the pricing is a bit more realistic and that 1/2 Mildot reticule is an improvement over the Mildot offered in the Eclipse 30 SF..

Falcon are supposedly introducing an illuminated version of their FFP Mil/Mil 4-14x44 in the summer, and I was considering hanging on for that, but a Panorama may be a suitable compromise given thats its available now..

Regards,

Peter

 

[KeeblerArmy]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

Hawke's higher end stuff is supposed to be pretty decent from what I read. For that price the Panorama would probably be great for a rim fire.

The only thing that turned me off was my .308 has a mil/mil setup and I wanted to stay with that. It didn't make much sense for my "training" rifle to have a different turret setup than the rifle I am training for. And the reticles are different too. The weaver was a much better match for my other system in that regard.

Would like to see a review if you ever get one.
Jesse

 

[HathcockProtege]

Re: MOA at sub 100 ranges

Wow...never thought of this as being really complicated before. lol.

I like equations, but they are silly for practical application. Just remember that:

1 MOA @ 25 yards = .25"
1 MOA @ 50 yards = .50"
1 MOA @ 75 yards = .75"
1 MOA @ 100 yards = 1"

(bullet drop in inches) divided by (1 mil in inches for that range) = mils hold-over needed.

(bullet drop in inches)/( MOA in inches @ target range) = (MOA needed to dial in scope)

For example, here's the equation I used last week to make a first round hold-over hit @ 200 yards on a 6" steel.

(drop of 38")/(7.2")= 5.278 mils.

I then went on to hit it after dialing on the scope:

(drop of 38")/(2) = 19 MOA.

Maybe I'm too simple to realize that I need more than a calculator. I've even been known to use mils and my phone's calculator to range a groundhog from time to time.

Lots of us love to explain this to new users by employing fancy terms and complicated equations when in reality the basic functions of a "tactical" scope can be used without extensive understanding.

That being said, I think it is a richer experience once you start to memorize equations and start enjoying using your calculator before every shot. I'm kind of weird like that though.

-The Kid.