Rifle Scopes Moa or Mil... yawn, old news

[308pirate]

Yeah and the reticle does the same thing to get as close as possible without math. If you are going to do the math you should probably use a tape to get it exact so you can be in between clicks anyways lol

Not every one of my rifles has a reticle with stadia subtensions, and those that do are not tree reticles. The grid targets do come in handy.

 

[Rob01]

Don't need a Christmas tree reticle. Any moa or mil reticle will work. Keep your windage line of crosshairs on center of target and then slide elevation over to Impact. Then you can read elevation and windage correction to your POA at center of target.

With a standard duplex it's harder and the squared targets would make it easier.

 

[eklarsen]

I lived in Europe for 4 years. I have no problem with the metric system. For shooting purposes, we don't generally need to add, subtract, multiply and divide Yards and MPH. If we did, then Meters and KPH would definitely be easier.

We choose to go to the moon shoot MOA in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard...

America

 

[phillip61]

I know it can work but when teaching you should teach how to actually call a correction using the reticle and not just the short hand version of favoring or using target sizes. Different reticles and scopes would not matter as long as they had moa or mil marks. The only point in where that would be the last resort is someone with a standard duplex reticle.

I understand, and in a perfect world that would be great. The guy I was partnered up with was using a FFP mil based reticle, I was using a 2nd FP MOA based reticle. We were calling each other corrections. I think we were doing it about as good as we could.

 

[Rob01]

Do you know how to call corrections for him in mils using your scope?

 

[phillip61]

Do you know how to call corrections for him in mils using your scope?

No.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

As you have a "measuring stick" in your scope why would you have to convert to inches for a correction?

R

When they make a reticle that is as accurate at 100 yards as my dial caliper is at the bench, I'll give that a try.

 

[Rob01]

Then you didn't learn what you should have been taught. That was my point in the earlier post.

 

[phillip61]

Do you know how to call corrections for him in mils using your scope?

But we were the top team there. we won an award at the end of the class for top team, we had one miss between us. There was a swat sniper team out of arkansas there, we beat them by one shot. Then I had a shoot out with one of them and he got me for top individual shooter of the class. So i would say we learned how to call corrections the way we were taught good enough to only have one miss between us.

 

[Rob01]

No.

Then you didn't learn what you should have been taught. That was my point in the earlier post.

 

[Rob01]

But we were the top team there. we won an award at the end of the class for top team, we had one miss between us. There was a swat sniper team out of arkansas there, we beat them by one shot. Then I had a shoot out with one of them and he got me for top individual shooter of the class.

All well and good but you didn't learn the skill set. You did something to get by at some class set match. You need to learn how to use the scope.

 

[Rthur]

When they make a reticle that is as accurate at 100 yards as my dial caliper is at the bench, I'll give that a try.

For benchrest maybe, PRS picking fly shit outa pepper.

R

 

[Deleted member 113831]

For benchrest maybe, PRS picking fly shit outa pepper.

R

There is this thing called ELR where we shoot really far. It tends to make a difference.

 

[Rthur]

There is this thing called ELR where we shoot really far. It tends to make a difference.

I read about that on the internet...
If you look closely at my post you'll notice I didn't insinuate the viability at the ELR distances/game.
It also doesn't help my golf swing and tee height, but that isn't what this thread/post is about.

R

 

[Bradu]

For benchrest maybe, PRS picking fly shit outa pepper.

R

I guess his wind calls during elr are so impressive that he is worried about one click whether it be in moa or mil lol

 

[Deleted member 113831]

I read about that on the internet...
If you look closely at my post you'll notice I didn't insinuate the viability at the ELR distances/game.
It also doesn't help my golf swing and tee height, but that isn't what this thread/post is about.

R

I took your post as redundant criticism of my desire for a precise zero. If that wasn't the case, or if you were referring to something else, then please accept my apologies. I've been beating back trolls of late, I may have been a little quick on the trigger.

 

[phillip61]

All well and good but you didn't learn the skill set. You did something to get by at some class set match. You need to learn how to use the scope.

the MP-8 reticle can be read in both Mills and MOA. But I don't know if a Mil based ret. can be used in the same way. But I believe the objective of the class wasn't to learn to call corrections using what ever reticle you had handy.

 

[Rob01]

the MP-8 reticle can be read in both Mills and MOA. But I don't know if a Mil based ret. can be used in the same way. But I believe the objective of the class wasn't to learn to call corrections using what ever reticle you had handy.

Not about what the reticle you have but how to be able to use both moa and mils of spotting for another shooters. It's a basic skill set that we teach in PR1 classes. I like to have students leave with knowledge about the scope and how to use it.

 

[phillip61]

Not about what the reticle you have but how to be able to use both moa and mils of spotting for another shooters. It's a basic skill set that we teach in PR1 classes. I like to have students leave with knowledge about the scope and how to use it.

You a web site I can go to to read about it?

 

[Bradu]

Not about what the reticle you have but how to be able to use both moa and mils of spotting for another shooters. It's a basic skill set that we teach in PR1 classes. I like to have students leave with knowledge about the scope and how to use it.

That's a good thing to teach, I've always ran moa until last year and bought my first mil scope. I am in the getting by category because a few friends I met at the range run mil so I'm the odd one out when I shoot with them. I have a half ass way of getting me by but it's not great lol

 

[Rob01]

You a web site I can go to to read about it?

No I don't have a site for you to look at but I am sure with a search you can find some info.

 

[308pirate]

the MP-8 reticle can be read in both Mills and MOA.

I just looked in Valdada (IOR) reticle webpage and there is no MP-8 reticle that comes with both mils and MOA in the same reticle.

In case I missed something, here is that page: http://www.valdada.com/scope-reticle/

Maybe you meant something else?

Whatever the case it sounds like you paid for a class that didn't teach you all of the fundamentals of modern long range rifle shooting.

 

[phillip61]

I just looked in Valdada (IOR) reticle webpage and there is no MP-8 reticle that comes with both mils and MOA in the same reticle.

In case I missed something, here is that page: http://www.valdada.com/scope-reticle/

Maybe you meant something else?

Whatever the case it sounds like you paid for a class that didn't teach you all of the fundamentals of modern long range rifle shooting.

my 12-52X56 reads in mils @ 14.4X and MOA at 26X, .........My 3.5-18X50 reads in 1/2mils @ 10X , 1mils@5X and moa @ 18X .

 

[308pirate]

my 12-52X56 reads in mils @ 14.4X and MOA at 26X, .........My 3.5-18X50 reads in 1/2mils @ 10X , 1mils@5X and moa @ 18X .

Sounds like these are second focal plane scopes and you have done some calculations to figure out at what power the subtension match milliradians and at what power they match minutes of angle.

That is not the same as a reticle that has both scales etched on it, which is what it seemed you were implying.

I've never seen or heard of a reticle with both units etched on it.

Can I ask which long range class you went to?

 

[phillip61]

Sounds like these are second focal plane scopes and you have done some calculations to figure out at what power the subtension match milliradians and at what power they match minutes of angle.

That is not the same as a reticle that has both scales etched on it, which is what it seemed you were implying.

I've never seen or heard of a reticle with both units etched on it.

Can I ask which long range class you went to?

Its marked on the mag ring on the scope itself. where it reads in MOA is marked in red, Mils and 1/2 mils are marked in Blue, all other magnifications are in white............DR. Long Range Concepts..

 

[Steel+Killer]

Do you know how to call corrections for him in mils using your scope?

Can I play.......

To go from MOA to mils divide the MOA by .35 and move the decimal to the left that will give you your mils.

 

[Rob01]

Wasn't really a game as much as a question. lol

 

[phillip61]

Can I play.......

To go from MOA to mils divide the MOA by .35 and move the decimal to the left that will give you your mils.

Oh my lord.......I damn near failed math in school. I would need a calculator to do all that, believe me when I say my partner didn't have all day for me to figure all that. "Favor right" is about my speed!

 

[Steel+Killer]

Oh my lord.......I damn near failed math in school. I would need a calculator to do all that, believe me when I say my partner didn't have all day for me to figure all that. "Favor right" is about my speed!

https://cdn3.volusion.com/sv7pj.7o3rt/v/vspfiles/photos/I-MILMOA-2.jpg?1394171241

 

[Steel+Killer]

 

[phillip61]

Can I play.......

To go from MOA to mils divide the MOA by .35 and move the decimal to the left that will give you your mils.

It was a long time ago that I had that class, now that you have said that, I do remember now going over that stuff. But I believe just to speed things along, we used the field expedient method of "Favor" and "hold".

 

[phillip61]

View attachment 6936820

Something like this has my name written all over it!

 

[Steel+Killer]

It was a long time ago that I had that class, now that you have said that, I do remember now going over that stuff. But I believe just to speed things along, we used the field expedient method of "Favor" and "hold".

Yea I get that you wouldn't want to take the time with a calculator when trying to call shots for someone, but a printed conversion chart would be helpful like the one from Impact Data Books if I was trying to call shots for someone with a MOA scope I would have one.

 

[Rob01]

The more you do it the less you will need the card.

 

[supercorndogs]

Even if you just call 1/4 moa and .1 mil as the same thing. You can most likely get someone on target. When spotting for someone else can you tell if they held the difference between .1 mil and 1/4 moa?

 

[Rob01]

It will be close but 1/3 MOA would be better the more you got up in size of correction.

 

[hlee]

I’d call 0.3 mil ~ 1MOA. That math is sufficiently easy. And, you are unlikely to need to call a correction where the difference will matter.

 

[phillip61]

I’d call 0.3 mil ~ 1MOA. That math is sufficiently easy. And, you are unlikely to need to call a correction where the difference will matter.

I was given a class handbook during the class, I can't find it, but the more ya'll talk, the more I remember about it. I remember something about .3 mills equaling a MOA or something close to that.

 

[phillip61]

Say Rob, just so you know, I appreciate your input on this. I claim to be a fairly good shot, but I don't claim to know the science behind shooting as well as I should. So again, thanks for your input.

 

[308pirate]

I remember something about .3 mills equaling a MOA

That is correct

1 milliradian subtends 1 yard at 1000 yards. At 100 yards (1000 yds/10) a mil subtends 1/10 yards. 1/10 yards = 3.6 inches (36 inches/10). So one milliradian subtends 3.6 inches per hundred yards.

To see how many minutes of angle a milliradian is equal to, divide 3.6 inches/1.047 inch per MOA = 3.438 MOA

So 1 milliradian = 3.438 MOA, then divide both sides by 3.438 and you get this: 1 MOA = 1 mil / 3.438 MOA/mil = .2908 milliradians.

Since we need clean round numbers to use in the field: 1 MOA = .3 milliradians

 

[Steel+Killer]

To go from MOA to MILS divide the MOA by .35 and move the decimal to the left that will give you your MILS.

To go from MILS to MOA multiply the MILS by .35 and move the decimal to the right that will give you your MOA.

As long as we are keeping it simple that's all you really need to know........we are trying to keep it simple right.....LOL

 

[Dthomas3523]

But we were the top team there. we won an award at the end of the class for top team, we had one miss between us. There was a swat sniper team out of arkansas there, we beat them by one shot. Then I had a shoot out with one of them and he got me for top individual shooter of the class. So i would say we learned how to call corrections the way we were taught good enough to only have one miss between us.

Best post of the entire thread.

In your face Rob...... ?

 

[308pirate]

To go from MOA to MILS divide the MOA by .35 and move the decimal to the left that will give you your MILS.

To go from MILS to MOA multiply the MILS by .35 and move the decimal to the right that will give you your MOA.

As long as we are keeping it simple that's all you really need to know........we are trying to keep it simple right.....LOL

I don't do math in the field. I do it at home and memorize the answer to take to the field.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

To go from MOA to MILS divide the MOA by .35 and move the decimal to the left that will give you your MILS.

To go from MILS to MOA multiply the MILS by .35 and move the decimal to the right that will give you your MOA.

As long as we are keeping it simple that's all you really need to know........we are trying to keep it simple right.....LOL

Your heart is in the right place, but I'm afraid you got it backwards. If you want to divide to convert MOA to MILS then you divide by 3.5, if you want to multiply to convert MOA to MILS then you multiply by .35.

And vice versa for MILS to MOA.

 

[TheGerman]

I shot with a scope today that had MOA turrets and a MIL reticle

Apparently this must be something on the level of time travel to some people.

 

[TheGerman]

Your heart is in the right place, but I'm afraid you got it backwards. If you want to divide to convert MOA to MILS then you divide by 3.5, if you want to multiply to convert MOA to MILS then you multiply by .35.

And vice versa for MILS to MOA.

3.438

If you're doing math at the range, thats the real problem. With the ballistic apps and tables you can make from them, MIL nor MOA should matter because all you're looking for is how many turns of your turret do you need and/or where to hold on whatever reticle you have.

The days of people doing trigonometry stunts at the range while pulling out slide rules and calculating wind constants are long gone.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

3.438

If you're doing math at the range, thats the real problem. With the ballistic apps and tables you can make from them, MIL nor MOA should matter because all you're looking for is how many turns of your turret do you need and/or where to hold on whatever reticle you have.

The days of people doing trigonometry stunts at the range while pulling out slide rules and calculating wind constants are long gone.

Yeah, I know it's 3.438. I was trying to gently point out an error in process without being a total ass.