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MOA vs Mil
- Thread starter chickon1
- Start date
Engineers are the bane of my existence.
The "Deer in the headlights" expression when they arrive on site, to witness the shitfuckery their designs have caused.
Best and only engineer I got on well with, was on the tools for years, before turning to the Dark Side.
The "Deer in the headlights" expression when they arrive on site, to witness the shitfuckery their designs have caused.
Best and only engineer I got on well with, was on the tools for years, before turning to the Dark Side.
You are making the assumption that you have a scope with Shooter MOA turrets and reticle. I’ve heard Frank talk about scopes with True MOA turrets and Shooter MOA reticle, or vice versa. Talk about giving yourself a built in error. It doesn’t need to be this complicated. Unless you shoot F-Class, MIL’s all the way.
You have no idea, over the last 25 years, how many manufacturing fuck ups I've had to undo from the hands of workers who thought they knew better
This shit cuts both ways
We simpleton folk drove him away with our non-math-unit-conversion using brains.
I've hunted with FFP and SFP scopes, in WY. Twice I had issues with the FFP scope trying to find the crosshairs in timber and snow falling. I killed one of those elk. SFP is superior for hunting and that's about all it's good for. I still use 2 SFPs for ELR and for hunting. I never do any math with them. 1k and beyond they are zoomed all the way in. under 1k you shouldn't be missing other than wind calls. A lot of this stuff makes perfect sense on paper but then I never see it in the field.
One small dog low, and I mean a really small dog not your golden retriever. Fuck, you sound just like my dad. "Turn left at the horse, right at the antelope. At the entrance there will be a small blue oil can." That blue oil can was there for over a decade.
" I don't know!!!! I'm not a real engineer!!! They just call me that so they can charge more money!!!" ~~~~~me at work
This topic is always regurgitated on a regular basis.
I love how it inevitably meanders like a stoned python.
I love how it inevitably meanders like a stoned python.
I'm just trying to get my 100 messages in so I can sell these 10 primers I found on the ground for $100
Hold on to them for another month, they'll do better than Bitcoin.
Attention Members!
Due to the continued periodic onslaught of “MOA vs MIL” threads that appear on our beloved Snipers Hide, I hereby propose that we declare February “National MOA vs MIL month”.
As part of the celebration, we will repost this thread, and continue our ongoing distinguished intellectual debate on the superiority of MOA, and the irrefutable necessity of calculating radial shot dispersion using linear distances in the blessed units of our English forefathers...inches (although furlongs should not be discounted; possibly decifurlongs with 1/12 turret increments).
Substantial progress could be made if we focus on possible improvements during this annual celebration, such as:
What say you? Who will second this motion to forever enshrine this righteous event!!
Due to the continued periodic onslaught of “MOA vs MIL” threads that appear on our beloved Snipers Hide, I hereby propose that we declare February “National MOA vs MIL month”.
As part of the celebration, we will repost this thread, and continue our ongoing distinguished intellectual debate on the superiority of MOA, and the irrefutable necessity of calculating radial shot dispersion using linear distances in the blessed units of our English forefathers...inches (although furlongs should not be discounted; possibly decifurlongs with 1/12 turret increments).
Substantial progress could be made if we focus on possible improvements during this annual celebration, such as:
- Exploring the advantages of odd vs even fractional turret increments (1/3, 1/5, 1/7...etc.)
- Resurrecting “new math” from the 1960’s to simplify ballistic epistomology
- Emphasizing the forgotten importance of spin drift
- Assessing possible improvements to SFP scope reticles
What say you? Who will second this motion to forever enshrine this righteous event!!
1/3 moa subtensions in SFP scope
“Miss. hold seven thirds moa right and ten thirds moa high, but only is you’re at 18 power. If you’re at 9 power hold....” etc.
This is valuable for the beginning shooter.
“Miss. hold seven thirds moa right and ten thirds moa high, but only is you’re at 18 power. If you’re at 9 power hold....” etc.
This is valuable for the beginning shooter.
I know this post is full of shit for one simple reason: the words "Nice" and "Florida" in the same sentence.
So, Black and Decker or Dewalt?
You guys have it all wrong. A more evolved person knows that the best solution is a Mil reticle with MOA turrets...
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True story:
I'm working with three technicians to prep for a crane lift and installation of a $90M piece of flight hardware. Of course, you want everything perfect for a lift like this, so we spend the morning prepping the shackles, straps, etc., getting the overhead crane in position, putting in all the safety lines around the area, etc.
At 11:30, we're done with the prep, so I turn to the techs and say, "alright, let's take lunch now, and I'll see you back here at 12:30 for the lift."
Two turn to walk away, but the third is having none of it. He stands straight and puffs out his chest.
"Union rules say that I get a 30 minute lunch and that it starts at 12:00."
The other two techs stop and look back with raised eyebrows, as I cock my head to the side and furrow my forehead in confusion.
"Right," I say, "but you can go to lunch now, and I'll see you back here at 12:30."
"No. Union rules say that lunch that starts at 12:00."
I take a deep breath as the other two techs smile and laugh under their breath.
"Okay. It's 11:30. I want you back here at 12:30. You can go to lunch now..."
"But union rules say..."
"Alright." I look over to the other two techs. "Jimmy and Dave, you two can go to lunch now, and I'll see you back here at 12:30." I turn to the obstinate tech. "You are going to unscrew every shackle and reinspect for any signs of wear. Then you're going to unroll every strap an reinspect for any worn threads. Then you're going reinspect the lifting harness for any abnormalities. Then, when we're done at noon, you can go to lunch and I'll see you back here at 12:30."
Then during the crane lift we took it up 2.5 mils too high, and...
Beautiful analogy: Harbor freight are awesome tools for guys like me that like to OWN tools but not really USE them. The SFP MOA scope is awesome for guys like me who like to say they OWN a Nightforce, but not really SHOOT their rifle very often. Pew pew, dead deer at 100 yds under the corn feeder. See you next year.
That my land lubber friend, is a sextant. In addition to my question about rings I need to know should I get mil or moa?
Ok,
It is now clear to me that there needs to be some compromises made to resolve this issue.
In the spirit of reconciliation I propose a hybrid system where elevation reticule and turrets are marked in mils and windage reticule and turrets are marked in moa.
It is now clear to me that there needs to be some compromises made to resolve this issue.
In the spirit of reconciliation I propose a hybrid system where elevation reticule and turrets are marked in mils and windage reticule and turrets are marked in moa.
Or we come up with a new system that has clicks at 1/100th of a degree. Yeah, that would work.
EDIT: No, that would be too large a jump per click. We could do it at 2 clicks per 1/100th of a degree. That's the ticket.
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Yes! That is the spirit.
@Newbie2020 @TonyTheTiger @slowworm I am honored that you would stand with me in support of the above proposal.
The Annual MOA vs MIL Festival will bring about a new age of enlightenment.
Dude, I really think I'm on to something with my 1/2 of 1/100th of a degree. We could call it semi-centigrees. or semi-centis for short. Imagine the reticles!
@Rocketmandb @Moe Ron
I think if we mount a scope of the above type on top if the rifle, with a sextant on a 45 degree mount on the left side, and an analog clock in decaminutes on the right side, you would be able to calculate your precise longitude, calculate the the linear error of spin drift, make the required semi-centidegree adjustments on your SFP MOA scope. If range is in furlongs, and the offset is in inches, doing the calculations in your head should be greatly simplified, because those are units everyone prefers.
That’s Nobel Prize worthy stuff right there!
I think if we mount a scope of the above type on top if the rifle, with a sextant on a 45 degree mount on the left side, and an analog clock in decaminutes on the right side, you would be able to calculate your precise longitude, calculate the the linear error of spin drift, make the required semi-centidegree adjustments on your SFP MOA scope. If range is in furlongs, and the offset is in inches, doing the calculations in your head should be greatly simplified, because those are units everyone prefers.
That’s Nobel Prize worthy stuff right there!
Would the system feed my ballistic calculator... oh wait, now we can come up with a new ballistic calculator app - because there aren't enough already - and none of them are in SCs!
One question: where does the bubble level go?
EDIT: Silly me - we could build in an auto-cant detection and adjustment into the whole system so you don't need to worry about being level.
Man, I am really humbled. The team work displayed here is awe inspiring...
Someone has to get started on DOPE book pages and podcasts for this stuff.
Not to mention the patent royalties that will accrue from the offset illuminated sextant! Has anyone called Nightforce?
Someone has to get started on DOPE book pages and podcasts for this stuff.
Not to mention the patent royalties that will accrue from the offset illuminated sextant! Has anyone called Nightforce?
@carbonbased @Moe Ron
Should the sextant be FFP or SFP? Clearly MOA to match the level, both with graduations in kilo semi-centidegrees (gotta keep it simple).
Should the sextant be FFP or SFP? Clearly MOA to match the level, both with graduations in kilo semi-centidegrees (gotta keep it simple).
As I said in an earlier post, I have a mil scope AND a moa scope on all my rifles. I would post pics but they are all at the gunsmith getting a custom mil barrel installed in a moa action. Man that shit is pricey.
It just dawned on me that I will need a mil sextant AND a moa sextant. Now with the addition of @TriggerJerk!’s suggestions we may need to get an Engineer involved. Anybody know one?
I think this may be a good starting point for some ideas. Let the brainstorming begin.
Ooh ooh ooh a camera would be nice too.
It just dawned on me that I will need a mil sextant AND a moa sextant. Now with the addition of @TriggerJerk!’s suggestions we may need to get an Engineer involved. Anybody know one?
I think this may be a good starting point for some ideas. Let the brainstorming begin.
Ooh ooh ooh a camera would be nice too.
As William Wallace told his warriors in 1305: “They cannah taaek mah MINUTES OF AAAAHNGULL!!!”
When the old lady gets back from the liquor store I will join you in a toast 
After the bitch makes me a sammich of course
After the bitch makes me a sammich of course
President hell, Supreme Dictator for life.
I am truly humbled. But alas I have a couple of students progressing, and I can not abandon my post until they are completed.
And there are new research opportunities upon which I hope to collaborate:
And there are new research opportunities upon which I hope to collaborate:
But I would be interested in a nomination for Editor in Chief of The Journal of MOA vs MIL. We would have one issue per year, released in mid January, in conjunction with the Snipers Hide MOA vs MIL Symposium (February 1-3 every year as part of National MOA vs MIL Month).
May I suggest a Double Gun Event?
Two rifles taped together, one with Mil scope, the other rigged for MOA.
there should be enough room on board for the sextant as well.
Life wasn't meant to be easy, and this issue needs to be resolved.
Two rifles taped together, one with Mil scope, the other rigged for MOA.
there should be enough room on board for the sextant as well.
Life wasn't meant to be easy, and this issue needs to be resolved.
@GrumpyOleFart
@Moe Ron in post #188 is also working on a working prototype. I would suggest the two of you should collaborate, as the two suggested test frames will likely form the initial experimental standards for this important research.
Things are progressing very quickly indeed.
Excellent, will imbibe more vodka, to accelerate the design process.
Undefiled by water or ice.
I’m somewhere between a Yankee and a Cowgirl.
I think I saw that one on Pornhub
I’m somewhere between a Yankee and a Cowgirl.
I think I saw that one on Pornhub
Well, if we are gonna float between cowgirl and yankee (truth in lending, every Texas girl I know would fight someone over that relative ranking; and I would help them), then might I suggest:
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