MOA vs Mil

[Newbie2020]

They will never get it. They will never adapt. They will never change. People hate change. They will defend their intransigent position until the cows come home. Never mind that the entire LR industry and community have moved on and left them behind. Keep teaching new shooters to buy a mil scope and moa will disappear in a single generation.

 

[phantomskittles]

Since by your math 1 MOA subtends to 1.047 inch at 100 yards and not exactly to an equal linear measurement you really should go with IPHY turrets and reticle to be perfectly precise...

Definitely the answer is IPHY.

 

[Bender]

 

[Newbie2020]

I guess fudds come in all shapes and sizes............

 

[Newbie2020]

OMG! Again!

Stop the Debate, Mils vs MOA vs IPHY

Sniper's Hide is constantly fielding the question of Milliradians versus Minute of Angle vs Inches Per Hundred Yards. Mils vs MOA

www.snipershide.com

Show up at Frank and Marc's class. Marc was just looking for someone with a MOA scope. Be that guy.
No one had one in our class, I think we kinda missed out.

Please tell me which class you’re going to. I want to attend. Maybe they’ll give me a discount just to spectate.

 

[chickon1]

Do you think you're teaching us anything?

Because you're not

I am beginning to realize this! You guys are so defensive!!

I could care less if you use MOA or Mil.
I don't think one is better than the other.
I don't think MOA is more of a precise adjustment (even though it is, just really not enough to make a difference at most yardage)

I use Mil myself since I started PRS for the easy of interaction with others. When I'm on the range and start spitting out numbers like.. 3in low @ 600yard.. need to come up 1/2 MOA.. the dude shooting with me is like WTF are you talking about.

I'm not talking about the practical applications of either.. Once you get past the initial calculations, neither MOA or Mil are different, they are just reference numbers based off of MATH!

thank all of you for entertaining this beat to death horse.

 

[Halfnutz]

Please tell me which class you’re going to. I want to attend. Maybe they’ll give me a discount just to spectate.

Did the 2 day Iowa class August 2020.
Doing the 3 day in Iowa this year.

 

[308pirate]

I use Mil myself since I started PRS for the easy of interaction with others. When I'm on the range and start spitting out numbers like.. 3in low @ 600yard.. need to come up 1/2 MOA.. the dude shooting with me is like WTF are you talking about.

You have to be trolling us for the lolz

Nobody can really be this dense and stupid...…...

 

[hafejd30]

You have to be trolling us for the lolz
Nobody can really be this dense and stupid...…...

chickon1:

“Hold ma Beer!!”

 

[chickon1]

Did the 2 day Iowa class August 2020.
Doing the 3 day in Iowa this year.

I went to college many years to learn math, which is the foundation which this is based on, which is very simple math. When I first starting learning MOA and MIL, I ran through all the math doing different calculations and was like, why would anyone use MIL.. There are practical reasons to use MIL sense the user base is so large and the scope options and reticles are better IMO.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

I went to college many years to learn math, which is the foundation which this is based on, which is very simple math. When I first starting learning MOA and MIL, I ran through all the math doing different calculations and was like, why would anyone use MIL.. There are practical reasons to use MIL sense the user base is so large and the scope options and reticles are better IMO.

You are doing it wrong princess. No amount of math will fix your process error.

 

[b2lee]

Back in the 70's and mid 80's near Niceville, FL...where the poster is from....the USAF tested the GAU-8 Avenger on and around Eglin Airforce Base. Many of the tests were from a ground based testing structure....but later one testing was done from the A-10 Warthog on parked Liberty Ships in the Choctawhatchee Bay. There is much debate about the overlays showing cancer clusters around the immediate areas of where these ships were parked...and later developed into subdivisions with scenic lots on the bay. To this day, you can measure hot spots in the waters where depleted uranium was fired.

Maybe...just maybe...we should cut the OP some slack....because maybe he is suffering from a mental condition that keeps him from understanding the concepts we are trying to present to him. It probably isn't his fault. There will one day be a 'Come to Jesus' moment....when the light flashes...and he understands.

B2

 

[Supersubes]

I went to college many years to learn math, which is the foundation which this is based on, which is very simple math. When I first starting learning MOA and MIL, I ran through all the math doing different calculations and was like, why would anyone use MIL.. There are practical reasons to use MIL sense the user base is so large and the scope options and reticles are better IMO.

You say you understand It and then say things like this, thereby demonstrating you dont get it at all:

“When I'm on the range and start spitting out numbers like.. 3in low @ 600yard.. need to come up 1/2 MOA.”

You looked right past the reticle in front of your eyeball, estimated your miss with a linear distance(3”), then converted it to MOA. MEASURE IT WITH THE RULER THAT WAS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR EYE, THE RETICLE! STOP DOING MATH!

That fact that I’ve taught small children to do this mere minutes after getting them on the scope makes me think you’ve never done any of this at all. A theoretical exercise for you. You DO NOT understand this. This has been hashed out for people like yourself a thousand times. At some point it will click, but that hasnt happened yet. Set aside your computer science degree for a sec, and read carefully whats being explained to you.

 

[slowworm]

@chickon1

So you went to college? That and $2 will buy you a coffee. Yet more proof that educated isn't the same as credentialed.

To put it bluntly, you are being told you are doing it wrong by folks here who have been deployed on 2 way ranges and know how to get shit done and hits on target with time and stress factors that are off the charts, including incoming fire. I would suggest you listen. I sure as hell have, and despite being an old dog I have learned way more tricks than I thought possible and improved beyond what I thought possible.

I have no idea how long you have been out of college, but here is a life lesson for you. When people who do shit for a living tell you the way something is, listen to them, particularly if fucking up can get you dead. This applies to shooting and particularly your CS degree, an area I have more than a passing familiarity with.

Humility and perspective opens the door to learning. There is more wisdom and knowledge here than you can possibly imagine, if you are open to it.

 

[acourvil]

Newsflash: math is not necessary AT ALL

My dope's in mils. The reticle is divided in mils. The turrets adjust in increments of a mil.

Why the fuck would I do any conversion math?

Update: if you don't do math in mils, then you can also not do math in moa.

 

[308pirate]

Update: if you don't do math in mils, then you can also not do math in moa.

 

[Diver160651]

Yes, bringing this up again because I can never get a real answer, even during a match with the top shooters. I know this is not really that big of a deal with calculator and all. What is even more odd, I have watched videos on people not in the US doing reviews on certain items and they are using MOA.

Just like stirring the POT..

Why do we use mil if all the targets are in yards. I consider myself "good" at math, but solving equations with less variables seems to be easier.

"Reasons" I've heard for Mil
They are in tenths.. that would be great if you were using meters
Mil uses whole numbers instead of factions.. really? Not after you do the math
It's what the military snipers use.. Being a vet, military uses meters
It's what I learned on..
The reason I use mil== the dude with the $2K weather station in my caulk is calling out wind corrections in mil!

About the only thing I've figured out is maybe all the really high-end scopes that are made in Europe use mil only for a while and mil "dot" reticles came out earlier to use for range est.

Easy Math for yards and bullet drop or est. distance:
1 MOA @ 100 yards equals 1 inch
1 Mil @ 100 meters equals 10 centimeters

Harder Math:
1 mil @ 100 yards = 3.6 in

Adjustments:
.10 mil = .36 in
1/4 MOA = .25 in

I swear to GOD we need a "STUPID" badge!

1. Once earned, you'd need 50 new like to get downgraded to a WAS STUPID
2. Another 50 likes and you get WAS STUPID removed

#1 qualifier is coming on the hide asking a question but instead delivering a pompous statement with a point to prove that is wrong; worse yet, one that's been hashed out for years.

 

[Commander Shepard]

When I'm on the range and start spitting out numbers like.. 3in low @ 600yard.. need to come up 1/2 MOA.. the dude shooting with me is like WTF are you talking about.

Giving corrections in a unit of length (i.e. inches) is a telltale sign of someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing.

You’re doing it wrong.

 

[hafejd30]

When I'm on the range and start spitting out numbers like.. 3in low @ 600yard.. need to come up 1/2 MOA.. the dude shooting with me is like WTF are you talking about.

The irony of two shooters looking across at each other at the range....both assuming the other is an uneducated dumb dumb.....but only one assumption actually turns out to be correct.....

 

[TheHorta]

They will never get it. They will never adapt. They will never change. People hate change. They will defend their intransigent position until the cows come home. Never mind that the entire LR industry and community have moved on and left them behind. Keep teaching new shooters to buy a mil scope and moa will disappear in a single generation.

What can we do to possibly get the MIL Morons to see the light and change the error of their ways?

Maybe if they stop voting for Biden and staring at AOC’s tits we’ll have a fighting chance?

 

[TheHorta]

Science has proven that it hurts more to be shot by a rifle with an MOA scope.

MIL scopes are classified as Less Lethal.

/thread

 

[Deleted member 113831]

What can we do to possibly get the MIL Morons to see the light and change the error of their ways?

Maybe if they stop voting for Biden and staring at AOC’s tits we’ll have a fighting chance?

Science has proven that it hurts more to be shot by a rifle with an MOA scope.

MIL scopes are classified as Less Lethal.

/thread

I'm pretty sure Jesus used Mils...that is why a tithe is a "tenth"...

 

[TheGerman]

I use MOR.

Minute of radian.

It's why I'm better than everyone else.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

I use MOR.

Minute of radian.

It's why I'm better than everyone else.

Not "Milliminutes"? I hear they are more accurate because they give you a finer adjustment.

 

[6.5SH]

What can we do to possibly get the MIL Morons to see the light and change the error of their ways?

Maybe if they stop voting for Biden and staring at AOC’s tits we’ll have a fighting chance?

So how many MOA are her tits?

 

[ACard]

So how many MOA are her tits?

Well that depends on how many yards away she is...

 

[Bender]

 

[Dthomas3523]

Shit, is it mil vs moa turn in the “retarded shit we continually discuss” carousel?!

 

[Dthomas3523]

Yes, bringing this up again because I can never get a real answer, even during a match with the top shooters. I know this is not really that big of a deal with calculator and all. What is even more odd, I have watched videos on people not in the US doing reviews on certain items and they are using MOA.

Just like stirring the POT..

Why do we use mil if all the targets are in yards. I consider myself "good" at math, but solving equations with less variables seems to be easier.

"Reasons" I've heard for Mil
They are in tenths.. that would be great if you were using meters
Mil uses whole numbers instead of factions.. really? Not after you do the math
It's what the military snipers use.. Being a vet, military uses meters
It's what I learned on..
The reason I use mil== the dude with the $2K weather station in my caulk is calling out wind corrections in mil!

About the only thing I've figured out is maybe all the really high-end scopes that are made in Europe use mil only for a while and mil "dot" reticles came out earlier to use for range est.

Easy Math for yards and bullet drop or est. distance:
1 MOA @ 100 yards equals 1 inch
1 Mil @ 100 meters equals 10 centimeters

Harder Math:
1 mil @ 100 yards = 3.6 in

Adjustments:
.10 mil = .36 in
1/4 MOA = .25 in

Here’s the real reason:

You don’t understand because you’re doing it wrong.

Also, if you’re going to use linear numbers (don’t), then an moa is 1.047” @ 100 and 10.47” @ 1k. And yes, it matters if you’re going to do conversions (the stupid way of using the system).

 

[308pirate]

Shit, is it mil vs moa turn in the “retarded shit we continually discuss” carousel?!

It's like a lunar cycle

 

[Moe Ron]

I have two scopes on all my rifles. One mil one moa, just in case.

 

[slowworm]

It's like a lunar cycle

More like a menstrual cycle.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

Use whatever you want.
Milliradians suit me perfectly.
Regardless of which angular measurement, the goal is to hit the brainbox, pump, or centre.
Don't waste time "stirring the pot"
Get good with what you got.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I'm just a computer science engineer, what do I know about how math works.

There it is. The "E" word. It's at the root of every one of these threads.
No one can fabricate a problem where none exists and then use it to browbeat anyone too practical to not see the issue like an engineer can.

 

[_Windrider_]

There it is. The "E" word. It's at the root of every one of these threads.
No one can fabricate a problem where none exists and then use it to browbeat anyone too practical to not see the issue like an engineer can.

I guess we are comparing engineering degrees now

can I play?

 

[Dthomas3523]

Who here thinks @chickon1 is a better engineer than @308pirate ?

I have $20 on @chickon1

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I guess we are comparing engineering degrees now

can I play?

I don't think a fluffer is the same as an engineer. Maybe 'Turgidity Technician'?

 

[308pirate]

There it is. The "E" word. It's at the root of every one of these threads.
No one can fabricate a problem where none exists and then use it to browbeat anyone too practical to not see the issue like an engineer can.

LOL

They sure do invent problems looking for a solution don't they?

You sound jealous

 

[308pirate]

Who here thinks @chickon1 is a better engineer than @308pirate ?

I have $20 on @chickon1

Double or nothing, brah

 

[TonyTheTiger]

@308pirate you know the guys I'm talking about. Like the guys fresh out of college that show up to a job site and declare "Behold! An engineer has arrived to solve world hunger!" And then they wander around saying "Lets make this bigger. Yeah. Bigger is good."
Or the older homeowner that we built a home addition for. He was an engineer, so he designed it. It was 20'x24' and he had 12" microlam beams as rafters 12" o.c. going to a 2 ply 24" microlam ridge beam. You could drive a tank on it. Anytime we questioned his logic or tried to explain the level of overkill he dismissed it by citing his 40+ years of engineering. We asked his wife what he did because he wouldn't tell us. Turns out he was an acoustical engineer.

Remember the thread just like this by that joelinux guy? After pages of him telling the forum he was the smartest guy around he finally declared that we couldn't understand him because he was an engineer..

 

[308pirate]

Remember the thread just like this by that joelinux guy? After pages of him telling the forum he was the smartest guy around he finally declared that we couldn't understand him because he was an engineer..

O yeah, I had forgotten about that dude

 

[seansmd]

Here’s the real reason:

You don’t understand because you’re doing it wrong.

Also, if you’re going to use linear numbers (don’t), then an moa is 1.047” @ 100 and 10.47” @ 1k. And yes, it matters if you’re going to do conversions (the stupid way of using the system).

But he's an engineer, just ask him.

 

[Halfnutz]

Went out with a girl once, told her I worked in R&D, She asks "Are you an engineer?" I say "No, just a machinist." Her reply "Oh, you fix engineers shit." Great fuck, sharp as a tack, bat shit crazy all the same.

 

[TriggerJerk!]

 

[Newbie2020]

@Halfnutz
How long have y’all been married now?

 

[Halfnutz]

@Halfnutz
How long have y’all been married now?

Some things are better for short term rental than taking on the maintenance costs.

 

[Newbie2020]

NOW you tell me...I just celebrated 22 yrs of maintenance...

 

[Newbie2020]

Kinda like these poor bastards shackled to moa........

 

[Mute]

Yes, bringing this up again because I can never get a real answer, even during a match with the top shooters. I know this is not really that big of a deal with calculator and all. What is even more odd, I have watched videos on people not in the US doing reviews on certain items and they are using MOA.

Just like stirring the POT..

Why do we use mil if all the targets are in yards. I consider myself "good" at math, but solving equations with less variables seems to be easier.

"Reasons" I've heard for Mil
They are in tenths.. that would be great if you were using meters
Mil uses whole numbers instead of factions.. really? Not after you do the math
It's what the military snipers use.. Being a vet, military uses meters
It's what I learned on..
The reason I use mil== the dude with the $2K weather station in my caulk is calling out wind corrections in mil!

About the only thing I've figured out is maybe all the really high-end scopes that are made in Europe use mil only for a while and mil "dot" reticles came out earlier to use for range est.

Easy Math for yards and bullet drop or est. distance:
1 MOA @ 100 yards equals 1 inch
1 Mil @ 100 meters equals 10 centimeters

Harder Math:
1 mil @ 100 yards = 3.6 in

Adjustments:
.10 mil = .36 in
1/4 MOA = .25 in

You're bringing this up again because you keep demanding an answer that doesn't exist. The only linear measurement that matters is the distance to target. Everything else resides in angular measures (and also why metric or imperial is irrelevant), thus mil or moa can both serve the ultimate goal; hitting your target at distance. Your insistence on conversions and changing angular measures into linear shows you are refusing to listen those with a great deal of experience and is trying to teach you how to practically implement these tools. If you insist on this kind of mental masturbation its your prerogative but it's not going to help you shoot any better.

 

[Rerun7]

I tell my fish stories in MOA because it makes them sound bigger.

This big fella was 35 clicks...