Night Vision Mod Armorys 308 pvs-14rc

[Lowlight]

Will this work with the badger SNAP allowing attachment to Mark 4 spotter?

I believe it will it should not be an issue at all...

With the Dual Mount I think you can even mount the PVS14 with SNAP on the Helmet and then attach it to the spotter to observe and then back to the helmet to move it should be no problem

 

[jdr724]

Thanks, these are the kind of posts that allow guys to get the newest stuff with the confidence to know it will do the job they want to do with it and who they can trust to purchase it from.

One more question. All my non magnified optics(eotechs) are mounted at 1/3 co-witness heights on the LaRue LT-110 with the elevated rear PVS14 mount rail. Is there an available QD mount like the one shown in the video that will allow proper sight alignment on the LT110 and retain helmet mount function?

 

[I^2 Technologies - Peter]

Thanks, these are the kind of posts that allow guys to get the newest stuff with the confidence to know it will do the job they want to do with it and who they can trust to purchase it from.

One more question. All my non magnified optics(eotechs) are mounted at 1/3 co-witness heights on the LaRue LT-110 with the elevated rear PVS14 mount rail. Is there an available QD mount like the one shown in the video that will allow proper sight alignment on the LT110 and retain helmet mount function?

Alas we don't have a DLOC that is short enough to fit on the back of the LT-110 and Line up correctly . The DLOC was designed for close mounting to EO-techs like the EXPS 3-0.

 

[jdr724]

Yeah makes sense to start with the newest lineup of eotech compatibility. Unfortunately for me the NV compatible ones I have are the older ones and still work.

With the popularity and abundance of these earlier set-ups, maybe it makes sense to offer a solution.

Thanks.

EDIT: I found this on the ident web site> D-LOC PVS • Comes compatible with holographic weapon sight height standard (optional centerline heights available for red dot sights, mini-monoculars, etc)?????????

 

[mcmillanman5]

Will this work with the badger SNAP allowing attachment to Mark 4 spotter?

Shouldn't be a problem I wouldn't think as it is still a pvs14.

 

[I^2 Technologies - Peter]

Yeah makes sense to start with the newest lineup of eotech compatibility. Unfortunately for me the NV compatible ones I have are the older ones and still work.

With the popularity and abundance of these earlier set-ups, maybe it makes sense to offer a solution.

Thanks.

EDIT: I found this on the ident web site> D-LOC PVS • Comes compatible with holographic weapon sight height standard (optional centerline heights available for red dot sights, mini-monoculars, etc)?????????

There has only been one SMALL run of a shorter Height riser for the DLOC and it was still too high for the LT110. I think the only thing that will work on the LT110 is the QD LT133. If we get enough demand we might consider a run of a super low mount.

Shouldn't be a problem I wouldn't think as it is still a pvs14.

I haven't played with a Badger Snap but I will get one on the way this week. It looks like it extends back over the entire objective lens and covers the Infinity Stop ring a little. As long as you don't have a weapons mount on there you "SHOULD" be ok.

 

[mcmillanman5]

I haven't played with a Badger Snap but I will get one on the way this week. It looks like it extends back over the entire objective lens and covers the Infinity Stop ring a little. As long as you don't have a weapons mount on there you "SHOULD" be ok.

I have a Badger SNAP and just pulled it out and took a few pics for you guys. Pete is correct when mounted the SNAP does extend back over the infinity stop. Pete if you wanted to borrow my SNAP I would be happy to loan it to you to test out, hope these help:

 

[mikeltee]

While we are on the subject, would the Vortex Razor cam mount in 30mm work as well?

 

[MODArmory – Nicole]

Link to the SnipersHide PVS14RC Video

<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=591707277519466" width="1280" height="720" frameborder="0"></iframe>

 

[11B-B4]

Unreal...

This will SELL TONS. This has been something the NV crowd has been asking for, for over a decade. Glad to see a company that had the resolve to put in the R&D effort and dollars.

I'll definitely be saving my pennies and dimes for one of these. Best of both worlds for sure. Thanks guys.

 

[Ident]

Unreal...

This will SELL TONS. This has been something the NV crowd has been asking for, for over a decade. Glad to see a company that had the resolve to put in the R&D effort and dollars.

I'll definitely be saving my pennies and dimes for one of these. Best of both worlds for sure. Thanks guys.

Thank you!

 

[Altnews]

I am interested if you could comment on the dual 14 mount and how exactly the adjustments work? I am curious if the adjustment or positioning of the nvd's is with friction or if it has certain points with "stops" so to speak within its range of motion. Also wondering if the 14's can sag or shift with movement during use. Any insight or thoughts would be greatly appreciated, thanks!!!

I've been using mine for a week and a half now on my night conditioning hikes in the mountains 3 times a week. I'm trying to get fit for elk season and I like walking at night when it's cool and I can be alone, and with the dual-tube system it's even more fun, I get to sneak up on deer all the time. Scared the crap out of some poor Mexican pushing a bike in the dark looking for a place to sleep the other night. He must have thought I was a chupacabra or alien or something. Never seen anyone ride off on a Huffy in the pitch dark so fast.

So far I've not had any problems with the tubes moving (drooping) together during normal hiking. The bridge itself is wide enough that the tubes basically hang straight below the pivot point when you're using the unit, so there's not a lot of lever arm to force them to move. They can get bumped though, but it's simple to realign them.

My problem is that my Team Wendy helmet does tend to shift down because it's still a bit front-heavy even with a counterweight on the back, so I have to resettle the helmet from time to time, but the tubes themselves don't move at all.

It's also incredibly easy to pop one off, or both of them, if you need to, and even an old klutz like me can remount them by feel in the dark, thanks to the dovetail mounts. I'm going to set up two padded pouches on my Eberlestock pack and on my body armor/carrier so I can pop the tubes off one at a time and stow them within reach while leaving the bridge itself on the helmet, folded back.

I'm highly satisfied.

 

[Altnews]

TAGGED. If you can't afford a clip-on NVD and you're running a stock with an adjustable length buttstock this could work using a monoloc/coupling device.

I was under the impression from using a monocular off the ocular it was only usable up to 8x magnification before issues in resolution started effecting the sight picture?

And if you have a dedicated hog-gun you use at night, just mount your scope/sight far enough forward that it'll give you proper comfortable cheek-weld with the 14 on the gun.

 

[mcmillanman5]

Altnews, thanks for sharing your thoughts on the mount, I appreciate it! I actually ordered one of the dual mounts yesterday along with some other stuff form Modarmory, can't wait to try it out!!!

 

[murderman]

We will be be letting this cat all the way out of the bag shortly. But, in short, this a Super PVS-14 that has a Fimless based Recoil Compensationg tube that Can stand up to Recoil on a .308 platform. In addition it has an upgraded mounting point in the form of the infinity focus stop. The battery pack can take either CR123s or AA batteries. In short, this is as good as it gets PERIOD!

And no this isn't just a marketing gimmick! This is a whole new tube design that is patented.



Yes you read that right.

Mod Armory isn't the only seller, Ident Marking and I also sell these units.

Pete, this is a most interesting development, and I am genuinely interested in learning more.

As you know from our past correspondence, I have been an engineer for 25 years or so, but have only been using NV for the past 7-8 years.

I am not reading any details of what differentiates these "super tubes" from other products in the marketplace. Since the technology is patented, it should be a matter of public record, but my search ability is obviously lacking. Maybe you can provide the specific patent number to assist my quest for knowledge or at least a technical description?

Is it accelerometers that interrupt the power supply upon recoil thus preventing energized contact between the photocathode and MCP? Are they really able to respond that quickly? Is that the ARC technology referred to below?

You also mention an upgraded mounting point; would you please elaborate on the specifics, as we all know that to be a limitation of standard PVS-14 devices?

Inquiring minds really want to know, and this seems to be the best source for quality information.

Thanks, J

 

[I^2 Technologies - Peter]

Howdy

The details of exactly how ARC technology works is proprietary. I could go into a long dissertation on it but, number 1. I am bound by an NDA. Number 2. (and to quote Mark Larue) I am not going to teach my competition how to compete. ARC technology is something totally new to the Night Vision world and put simply, it works beyond its creators wildest dreams.

The patent, anyone can read once it's avalible to the public.

The upgraded mounting point is JUST THAT, upgraded. It is stronger than normal and it reinforces the ultim PVS 14 upper monocular housing in a specific manner that is again a proprietary design. The test bed 14s have thousands of rounds on a SCAR 17 with no breakage. When people say SCARS eat optics, its absolutely true. We killed one EOTECH and the second is on its way out in the testing but no PVS 14s Died on the SCAR 17.

The PVS 14RC is what I wished the 14 was from the get go. Strong, versatile, increadible low and high light performance. I am just thankful that this evolutionary step forward in Night Vision has occurred and I am frankly delighted that I was asked to be part of it.

 

[murderman]

Thank you for the glittering generalities.

You mention patent in each of your posts; what is the 7-digit number? Most folks with cool shit love getting the word out.

Or did you really mean to type patent pending or patent applied for?

 

[TxHoghunter]

Larue has had a PVS-14 warrantied for a .308 out for a couple years now.

 

[murderman]

Yeah, but isn't the LT thing simply an actuarial hedge using existing technology and betting money upon the anticipated failure rate versus time?

For the PVS-14RC, "evolutionary" improvement is claimed, but there is no tangible evidence of any difference, just folks claiming that they are shit hot.

I can make the same claim that I have developed the greatest NV ever known to mankind, and am willing to offer to the public for a mere $10k per unit. Please send the funds to bestshitever.com, and I promise that you will promptly be delivered the device.

I am totally stoked if the suggested solution actually performs as advertised, but as of yet have seen no demonstration of the claims.

Robust solutions meet robust inquiry....i.e. put up or shut up.

Take care, J.

 

[Lowlight]

Yeah, but isn't the LT thing simply an actuarial hedge using existing technology and betting money upon the anticipated failure rate versus time?

For the PVS-14RC, "evolutionary" improvement is claimed, but there is no tangible evidence of any difference, just folks claiming that they are shit hot.

I can make the same claim that I have developed the greatest NV ever known to mankind, and am willing to offer to the public for a mere $10k per unit. Please send the funds to bestshitever.com, and I promise that you will promptly be delivered the device.

I am totally stoked if the suggested solution actually performs as advertised, but as of yet have seen no demonstration of the claims.

Robust solutions meet robust inquiry....i.e. put up or shut up.

Take care, J.

No evidence ? As if this tech doesn't consistently move forward.

I shot it on a SCAR, I posted video of it on a SCAR 17 and in the video he said a lot of the tech is in the power supply. That it functions at a faster rate. He also showed and explained exactly where the tubes came from and by who. Aside from showing you a schematic of the entire unit what do you think you would see ? As if these guys ( all NV Companies) don't play things close to the vest as long as possible. More than one guy is talking about a patent, pending, approved, etc. If that never happened, or happens, don't you think their long term prospects would be shot to hell ?

Now the missing details as noted are due to the fact, 1. the NV Industry is a bit contentious, where they constantly try to out do each other, and 2. guys like you, who are probably not interested in buying a unit, but are more interested in feeding the conflicts between companies. So, while you might feel you deserve an answer, if you look there are very few "new tech" answers out there until everyone starts using it. Last time I checked science tech was not an open book for all to see.

I looked at them side by side, I used them on a SCAR17, they are on record as saying they are rated & warrantied for a 308 so it's not like they can change their mind. I mean I saw no issue when shooting them, no flash or hiccup, or anything that would lead me to believe anything underhanded was being done.

Here is my ethics statement, I was invited down to look at both the PVS14RC and the Dual Mount. I was invited to shoot the RC on the SCAR17. I did not get paid, I did not walk about the door with any gear, I did not sell them anything in exchange. I reported exactly as I found. Was there stuff explained to me that I did not say or put on camera, yes there was... so as far as
"folks" calling it shit hot. I just called like I saw it, and like was explained to me, as far as I was allowed to detail.

I my opinion, [MENTION=8109]murderman[/MENTION] is just stirring up shit for a reason other than an interest in buying a unit from MOD. This reasoning, as far as my experience goes having more than NV Company on the site seems much more realistic.

 

[murderman]

Excellent, now we have some tangible facts to discuss. I am in the process of making dinner for our household just now, but will most definitely be getting back to this thread when time soon permits.

Thanks, J.

 

[murderman]

No evidence ? As if this tech doesn't consistently move forward.

I shot it on a SCAR, I posted video of it on a SCAR 17 and in the video he said a lot of the tech is in the power supply. That it functions at a faster rate. He also showed and explained exactly where the tubes came from and by who. Aside from showing you a schematic of the entire unit what do you think you would see ? As if these guys ( all NV Companies) don't play things close to the vest as long as possible. More than one guy is talking about a patent, pending, approved, etc. If that never happened, or happens, don't you think their long term prospects would be shot to hell ?

Now the missing details as noted are due to the fact, 1. the NV Industry is a bit contentious, where they constantly try to out do each other, and 2. guys like you, who are probably not interested in buying a unit, but are more interested in feeding the conflicts between companies. So, while you might feel you deserve an answer, if you look there are very few "new tech" answers out there until everyone starts using it. Last time I checked science tech was not an open book for all to see.

I looked at them side by side, I used them on a SCAR17, they are on record as saying they are rated & warrantied for a 308 so it's not like they can change their mind. I mean I saw no issue when shooting them, no flash or hiccup, or anything that would lead me to believe anything underhanded was being done.

Here is my ethics statement, I was invited down to look at both the PVS14RC and the Dual Mount. I was invited to shoot the RC on the SCAR17. I did not get paid, I did not walk about the door with any gear, I did not sell them anything in exchange. I reported exactly as I found. Was there stuff explained to me that I did not say or put on camera, yes there was... so as far as
"folks" calling it shit hot. I just called like I saw it, and like was explained to me, as far as I was allowed to detail.

I my opinion, [MENTION=8109]murderman[/MENTION] is just stirring up shit for a reason other than an interest in buying a unit from MOD. This reasoning, as far as my experience goes having more than NV Company on the site seems much more realistic.

Frank, do you have a commercial interest in Sniper's Hide? If so, I will temper my responses and regard your posts accordingly.

Thanks, John

 

[Lowlight]

If you have to ask that question, and call me Frank like we know each other, you might want to consider any answer as it sounds to me like it may not be truthful. Tailoring your answer sounds pretty darn suspicious to me, and I am sure a few others.

 

[murderman]

If you have to ask that question, and call me Frank like we know each other, you might want to consider any answer as it sounds to me like it may not be truthful. Tailoring your answer sounds pretty darn suspicious to me, and I am sure a few others.

"Frank Outlaw" is listed at the bottom of your post, so it seems reasonable to assume that is you given name. Mine is John, and it is a pleasure to "meet" you. Many of the folks with which correspondence occurs online have actual faces to go with screenames, although I don't believe that the two of us have met FTF.

As you can see, I don't post here very often, but I have been "lurking" for a while. Isn't standard protocol to contribute when one might have something to offer, but to keep one's eyes and ears open to learn otherwise?

As a consistent NV user, I am genuinely interested in this "new" technology, but it seems to be all "trust me", but at the same time secret squirrel. That combination is also cause for suspicion.

The indication is that some circuitry is involved as I previously speculated. If a patent is pending or applied for, than I can fully appreciate the protection of innovation being exhibited by the other posters. If that is the case, than just say so instead of some cloak and dagger pretentiousness.

 

[redirt78]

Tag for when I have the cash... Right now it's looking like Neverary the 32nd but I have pulled off a few other things I didn't see happening anytime soon before. Nice to see a 308 rated NV product with a 5 year warranty on it.

 

[mikeltee]

From a dumbasses prospective, it's pretty clear to me that a) new tubes have been developed and are so far, proprietary to the RC system and b) new hardware is utilized in powering this new tube that is able to cut power to the tube in time to further protect the tube. All of this can be found on the website. How is using these 2 new items "folks just claiming shit hot"? If you read the thread, you will see that this has been in development for several years. Surely over the course of that time, much money has been invested in the system, and the higher price tag reflects it. Why the fuck would someone just spell out what makes this thing tick to satisfy your engineering curiosity? You are probably some Chinese chop shop looking to steal the new tech and put it up on eBay for 50% of the cost. Your lack of post count reflects this idea. If you spent some time here contributing to the community, you may have gotten less of a blunt and obvious answer. If you really want to find out if and why this device is indeed the cream of the crop, do what a real engineer would do and buy one and reverse engineer it. Don't sit here whine for an answer.
....
Or for a patent number as the Chinese could give a shit less about them. Patents just make it easier to steal the idea.

 

[murderman]

At least the third word of your post seems accurate. There is a bunch of qualitative hype, but not much quantitative substance. Yes, I have been trained to be skeptical...trust but verify. There just doesn't seem to be much independent verification here to support the glamorous claims. Again, if the product is in the developmental stages, I full respect the confidentiality to protect future patents applied for, but in such case don't go posting on the iNet before it is time. One cannot have his cake and eat it too.....I got this really cool shit, but I can't tell you anything about it, just trust me that it is some really cool shit and give me some money. I genuinely hope that the promises come to fruition, but I don't blindly believe any hearsay. Maybe some other lemmings do, and that is most certainly their prerogative.

 

[Lowlight]

My name is Frank, but certainly not Frank Outlaw, that is just a quote.

Anyone who's been here for more than 5 minutes also knows I own the site.

Nobody is telling you to buy anything. And clearly if you did seeing how they are available, it is warranted so there is no "trust me" involved. You can certainly see in the video I did where updates are pointed out. Including the mount point you questioned. If you don't believe the explanation because your engineering self doesn't believe it possible, don't buy it. There are plenty of other options in the NV world. I use NV too, with that and $5 I can get a coffee at Starbucks. Heck I even have a tricked out celebrity owned PVS26. If the product interests you call the source on the phone.

If you don't trust MOD or I^2 you should just come straight out and say it. But I think you'll find plenty of people have purchased from them without issue. In the video you can easily see about 8 units on the table. Plus in the videos I compared them side by side to other units. For me I don't get how you think you are entitled to engineering level answers.

If you are really interested like you said, call them, make an appointment and fly to CO for a personal demo. They can show you before you buy. But you're beating around the bush, call them out directly or move on. You're a broken record playing the part of Tom Hanks in BIG repeating "I don't get it" . Or call me out directly and say I am biased?

 

[Turd in the Pool]

Tables turned. Put up or shut up!

 

[redirt78]

It is 308 rated with a 5 year warranty. Why stir so much shit? It's not like they would put that out there without testing it and its not like they will be sold to people who will not put that warranty to the test. The "tell me exactly how you made it 308 capable" isn't getting you too far. If the warranty wasn't there then I could understand some of the questions.

 

[mikeltee]

We may all look like a bunch of Kool-Aide drinkers for defending these guys, but these companies have never done anything in the past to make me feel like I can't trust them. I understand your scepticism, but the information you seek shouldn't be attained this way. The 5 year 308 warranty is enough for me to justify the extra cash involved in getting this item, as I own a 308, and if I was to decide to use it mounted, I have the option. Add this to the certainy of getting a tube just as good, if not better than what's currently on the market, and what you have is a product that deems the highest price. Sure I could roll the dice with $2500 and maybe get a decent tube, and maybe it would handle a few rounds on my 308, but for my hard earned money I want the best, and I have no reason to believe that this is not the best option money can buy for a pvs-14.

 

[murderman]

Good morning gentlemen.

Frank, if I may refer to you by your given name for clarity sake, since you are the owner of this site you can easily track my posting history. While I may or may not have known you were the owner at some point in the past, it has been quite some time since I have posted here, so is it not reasonable to consider that I may have genuinely forgotten such data point?

I am not "calling out" anyone, although there does seem to be a bit of bias in this thread other than Killswitch Engage who asked questions similar to mine, again without substantive response.

As far as the sellers of this device, I have had numerous offline dialogs with Pete in the past, although we seem to have lost contact a while back. He is knowledgeable and personable, and hopefully feels the same about me at least to some degree. I met a gentleman a few years ago at SHOT who I understand to be a principal at Ident Marking, and if memory serves correctly, his name is Jason. As far Mod Armory, my only interaction has been the purchase of a spanner wrench a couple years back, although I must say that Camille appears to be an attractive young lady if that is her in your vid.

Shifting back to the technical side of things, what I have surmised based upon available data for the PVS-14RC is the following:

1) A standard PVS-14 housing is used.
2) A standard high spec L3 filmless tube is used.
3) A beefed up infinity travel stop lock ring is used to presumably provide a more robust mounting point using a corresponding Picatinny mount.
4) A custom battery housing is used. This provides for the ability to use either AA or 123 batteries, which is a beneficial feature. Based upon the fact that the batteries are inserted negative terminal first, coupled with the dimensional differences between the two battery types, it is fairly easy to understand how it works.
5) The custom battery housing contains the sensing element(s), i.e. accelerometers and associated circuitry to temporarily cut off the power supply upon recoil, thus precluding "ARC-ing" contact between the photocathode and MCP.

There are a few terms being discussed with some level of ambiguity / confusion. For example, impulse is defined as the integral of force over a period of time, and is hence a measure of total energy dissipated, or for a given mass, the change in momentum. Acceleration is the second derivative of position with respect to time. I don't know as much about NV tubes as some of the folks here, but my understanding is that tube damage is caused by peak acceleration assuming the constant mass of the photocathode to physically interact with the MCP with a high differential voltage between the two, hence causing short circuit damage analogous to HV welding.

You have made offer for me to travel to Colorado Springs for a hands-on demo with Mod Armory. That statement indicates that there is some sort of connection amongst the respective entities, but does not at all imply any sort of sinister conspiracy. Folks who are into firearms and related stuff almost certainly have associates with similar interests. As much as I love visiting the Rocky Mountains since I live in flatland, from a purely logistical perspective, it would be much easier for me to meet up with Ident, as there are around the Dallas area if I am not mistaken. I have a "nothing special" suppressed .308 bolt gun with a 3.5-15x56 NXS as well as a Monoloc that I can bring along; that would seem a reasonable platform to provide additional data to the developers of this product.

Am I possibly more thorough, skeptical, and/or obstinate than most posters...sure, I accept that; it is part of my training as well as becoming a crotchety old man.

You own this site and have the choice of supporting the 1st Amendment and availability of quality firearms related information or squelching legitimate intellectual dialog.

I respectfully request for the big brains here to specifically point out any of the statements that I have made which are untrue....we are all human.

Take care, John

 

[Lowlight]

See how easy that was, you answered your own questions and found a hands on solution locally.

You went through, identified key points, and speculated on others in way that would not be viewed negatively, now it doesn't look like you are stirring the pot.

As far as the connection, we are both in CO. It sort of ends there. I moved here, they have been here. Granted I am northwest of Denver and they are south of C-Springs, so while many believe there to be a grand conspiracy, it's just geography. I am local to several SH Vendors in fact, some closer than others. Just means if I want to see something I can drive there to look instead of getting it mailed to me. Though my UPS lady does appreciate the work, getting hands on with the companies at their shops can be easier, and more useful.

You should realize we don't abide by the 1st Amend here, it's a private company. Sort of like NASCAR censoring their drivers. Well same thing here. You can't angle your dialog against people for no good reason. You wanting engineering level answers is not reason enough to keep acting like you were. So maybe pointing this out others will realize they are not entitled to anything here beyond reason. You asked once, you don't like the answer, you have two choices, move on, or accept it. If you keep baiting them, or others you will be censored. The internet can be a dangerous place if we let every one with an anonymous account poke at people all the time.

But I am glad you got your answers, and have access to Ident to get hands on. Good luck.

 

[murderman]

Frank, maybe my initial post on this thread was a bit "bull in a China cabinet", but Pete knows me so I thought that it might have been better received. I don't feel "entitled" to any information, but to be perfectly candid was a bit surprised with the hold-close-to-ones-chest mentality of things which could be conceptually conveyed without compromising patents applied for.

Anyway, it appears as though we are now all on the same page as far as no ulterior motives, but rather genuine interest in technology development.

If Ident is willing to host, I can make the road trip to check this stuff out firsthand, and bring along my toys for comparison with past experience. As is the case for all, locality is an important consideration. Ident and murderman are fairly close geographically, just as Mod Armory and Lowlight are. It's all good.

By the way, some of us lowlanders are jealous of your topographical relief.

 

[MODArmory – Nicole]

Yes, this post is short and sweet but Hunter is out of town in meetings and will be able to respond in more detail soon. I’m not an engineer but what I can tell you is
for the point 2, the PVS-14RC is NOT a L3 Filmless tube. This intensifier tube is manufactured by ICT Laboratories.

For point 5, the battery housing has nothing to do with the ARC technology. It is integral to the ICT tube not the battery housing.

I’m sure Ident would love to host you. We actually have been selling these since January but have not informed the masses because we have been filling pre-orders. The last thing we want is to have customers order a product and wait 6 to 8 weeks to receive their night vision unit.

As for the 1st amendment we are ardent supports of the 1st amendment. We feel if the 2nd amendment disappears the 1st amendment will be right behind it. As Frank has stated this is a privately owned internet forum as are others that are out there. However, we feel Snipers Hide is one of the most fair and balanced in its handling of internet posting. As an example, if it can happen to one vendor then it can certainly happen to another, there is another internet forum out there that we have never had an account, made a single post, etc and we are not allowed to even create an account. So thank you, Frank, for keeping it real!

 

[murderman]

Camille,

I really like the fact that you present yourself as a real person instead of a nameless, faceless internet persona. As I am not employed by the firearms industry professionally, I am simply John, but I do use the same screename on all of the firearms and 4WD forums to which I am a member...nothing to hide..and no pun intended with that word.

Thank you for the clarification on the tube and battery housing considerations. Based upon what limited technical data has been provided, one could only have made the same assumptions which I did. That said, is the tube actually patented, or is it patent applied for? If the former, then please provide the number; if the latter, than confidentially must be understandably respected. This is a pretty straightforward question, and you seem to be the first to provide straightforward responses.

It would be nice to take a short road trip to meet up with the folks from Ident for a night shoot. Maybe they will reply extending the invitation suggested by yourself and Frank?

As far as 1A and 2A in particular, I seriously doubt that there are many folks posting here who do not adamantly support both. I haven't been censored so far making challenging inquiries, so presumably the CoC is evenly applied.

Again, hard claims should anticipate hard challenges...that is quite simply life in the modern world.

Take care, John

 

[Ident]

Invite

Camille,

I really like the fact that you present yourself as a real person instead of a nameless, faceless internet persona. As I am not employed by the firearms industry professionally, I am simply John, but I do use the same screename on all of the firearms and 4WD forums to which I am a member...nothing to hide..and no pun intended with that word.

Thank you for the clarification on the tube and battery housing considerations. Based upon what limited technical data has been provided, one could only have made the same assumptions which I did. That said, is the tube actually patented, or is it patent applied for? If the former, then please provide the number; if the latter, than confidentially must be understandably respected. This is a pretty straightforward question, and you seem to be the first to provide straightforward responses.

It would be nice to take a short road trip to meet up with the folks from Ident for a night shoot. Maybe they will reply extending the invitation suggested by yourself and Frank?

As far as 1A and 2A in particular, I seriously doubt that there are many folks posting here who do not adamantly support both. I haven't been censored so far making challenging inquiries, so presumably the CoC is evenly applied.

Again, hard claims should anticipate hard challenges...that is quite simply life in the modern world.

Take care, John

John,

We have visitors every week that are invited to look and learn about night vision. If you want to drive up to DFW to learn more about the RC tube give us a call. If you or a friend of yours has a light plane our airport is around the corner- people fly in regularly here to look at NV. We can show you the PVS-14 RC, the SPRS dedicated night vision scope with a RC tube installed, clip ons, whatever your interest is. We have our own range so shooting the systems on high caliber rifles at night isn't a problem. You won't drive away from our facility with all the technical questions answered that you have asked in your posts above but I would assume you can understand why we don't openly discuss certain technical details, patents or patent applications on open forums. I will simply say the technology works and the RC tube has great technical merit. That is a definitive statement. Google doesn't detail how their search engine works but I know it does. The warranty backs up the product, and thats how we tell customers our product does what we say it does. We didn't reinvent the wheel here- there was enough engineering buffer left in a Generation 3 tube design to increase recoil resistance. Several companies in the night vision industry collaborated to extract a very significant increase in shock reliability. That is what night vision users want (along with great tube performance) when they are spending their own money or department funds on weapon mounted NV equipment. The RC tube combines both Mil performance and recoil hardening.

Give us a call if you would like to visit,

Ident Marking

 

[murderman]

I'll give y'all a shout after looking at schedule. Should I ask for Jason?

Typically, new moon or waning last quarter is best to have things be dark. No sense in night shooting during a new moon, since one can see plenty well with night adjusted eyes.

 

[Ident]

I'll give y'all a shout after looking at schedule. Should I ask for Jason?

Typically, new moon or waning last quarter is best to have things be dark. No sense in night shooting during a new moon, since one can see plenty well with night adjusted eyes.

Yes ask for Jason

 

[GBMaryland]

Camille:

Can you guys take a existing tube and put it in the new housing? I've got a spare PVS-14, and this would be useful.

 

[MODArmory – Nicole]

GBMaryland,

Give me a call when you have a chance and I will discuss your options over the phone.

 

[Altnews]

You should realize we don't abide by the 1st Amend here, it's a private company. Sort of like NASCAR censoring their drivers. Well same thing here. You can't angle your dialog against people for no good reason. You wanting engineering level answers is not reason enough to keep acting like you were. So maybe pointing this out others will realize they are not entitled to anything here beyond reason. You asked once, you don't like the answer, you have two choices, move on, or accept it. If you keep baiting them, or others you will be censored. The internet can be a dangerous place if we let every one with an anonymous account poke at people all the time.

But I am glad you got your answers, and have access to Ident to get hands on. Good luck.

Thanks for pointing this out Frank, it's worth remembering. Only government can engage in censorship. Private companies are engaging in marketing and customer service.

The First Amendment protects the right to free speech, but it also protects the right of the Press to publish or not publish anything it wants. The Supreme Court has ruled that the government cannot require the Press to publish anything, particularly not government propaganda. Nor can an individual who doesn't own the printing press tell the owner what to publish.

That being said I can personally testify that Frank was invited to a demo and he was very fair and impartial in his review. And I don't have any financial interests at stake here at all.

 

[shooter6.5]

I have one of the PVS-14RC from Mod Armory. Ident and I<2 Technologies also were involved in the research and development and have the product also. I have not had the opportunity to utilize the devise to its fullest advantage but what I have noticed so far is that the image is clearer than the other two hand select tubes that I have. I have run them all side by side and there is a difference. Is it going to knock your socks off, well that depends on what kind of socks you wear.

The auto gate is great and noticably enhanced. It lightens up and gets dimmer very quickly. It does not need near the additional help that other tubes may need. And when I turn it toward a lighted area it vert quickly dims the tube in order to keep my object in focus.

The IR mode of the tube is noticeably brighter. With the other tubes the IR ability was difficulte to see at times. Not with this tube. Big change.

I am not a tech guy so I cannot answer technical questions. I leave that to the guys that can. Hunter, Pete and Jason and probably others. It is noticably better. That is the bottom line and I looks forward to getting it on my LWRC Reeper in the next week or so. I intend to give it a workout.

 

[huntler]

I can answer some of your questions Mike. I was also involved in the development with Mod and I^2. Like Killswitch stated people have had mixed results with recoil on ITT tubes (and L3 tubes as well)- some people don't have an issue with NV on a .308. Because we are geographically in a good location (Texas) to see heavily used NV of all types from literally thousands of customers we saw a significant amount of recoil damaged tubes in all types of weapon sights. The problem was getting worse- not better- as the tube manufacturers improved the performance of the tubes (lower halo, etc..). This was a common topic on many of the NV forums in 2010 and 2011. There was a little information out there but no one (including us) could really speak definitively on recoil issues because even the tube manufacturers themselves had a limited amount of research done on the problem. Two years ago, Mod I^2 and our company decided to identify the problem and design a solution (if it one was even possible). We did that and it was a big undertaking. Some of the most intelligent US night vision companies in the country and several very experienced engineers/PhDs were brought in to help. A considerable amount of money was spent on research, design, test and production. During the course of the development a company bought the design and we became distributors of the RC tube and systems that use the RC tube.

What we found out was there is a lot variables when it comes to recoil and if you have a ITT tube that is hanging in there with higher caliber rifles then great. With what we now positively know we would also say that using it this way is outside of the design envelope and is a definite risk to use an expensive, late model image tube with a .308 caliber rifle regardless if it is made by ITT or L3. L3 tubes are slightly stronger but neither tube is patently safe at .308 levels unless the NV system could attenuate shock in some way. I say 'levels' because unless you test each rifle for its individual shock curve you have to generalize the shock patterns into ranges of calibers. What we also know now is felt recoil is completely different from the damaging transient shock events that destroy NV tubes. Killswitch is in error (and i'm not knocking him for it, we just have a huge amount of data to look at) when he says a that a .308 gas gun with a suppressor would be a safe platform for NV. The worst shock profiles we (and others) saw were with a semi .308- more interesting was adding a suppressor that weapon actually increased the shock placed on optics, rather than attenuating it. (I lost that bet) The .308 gas gun produced much more recoil that some .338 and .50 BMG rifles, bolt or semi. You have to add a number of other variables to start seeing the big picture but it was obvious that any serious improvement to recoil harden a image tube was going to have to be able to withstand a significant amount more recoil that current tubes today.

Shorten all this up and the RC tube is major improvement. It easily handles .308 recoil across the board and a 5 year recoil warranty should give the owner confidence. It's capable of withstanding higher calibers and we will continue to uprate the RC tube as we get the data but we don't just test one .338 Lapua rifle and call it good- its a long process. You want a hard number on recoil? Its over 1500 Gs, at the tube. That doesn't account for any attenuation from optic housings, mounts, shock mitigation employed in the system, etc. In the future Mod will probably post some of the general shock profiles obtained from rifle platforms that people are familiar with. People here can see a general idea of what their rifles are producing but like I said, it will simply give you an idea of what your individual weapons produce as far as recoil- each rifle is different.

In addition to recoil the RC tube has several other improvements:

The tube gates about 10x faster than other tubes, allowing for better highlight resolution and decreases the chance of image burn when the tube is exposed to bright light sources.

Halo diameter is typical .7 to .9

Contrast is typically higher than in other tubes. This is more from the the type of tube design rather than the power supply but its noteworthy.

The EBI is typically very low.

The PVS-14 RC not only a uses CR123/AA battery housing but it also has a brighter onboard CQ illuminator.

Finally, the RC was developed because heavy rifle platforms are getting more popular, NV is getting more popular, good NV equipment is very expensive and users are risking thousands of dollars pairing NV with heavy caliber rifles. I don't think every person with a non RC tube is going to damage it on a .308 but you can now buy a tube with very high specifications and it is designed to work with heavy rifles. It's a few more dollars but if you are already spending the money on good NV then its a really a small amount to ensure it will work when you need it to.

Ident

I'm the guy that gets on the internet about 4 times a year, I'm home sick today so I'm playing catch up on internet postings.

Jason, Pete and Camille laid this out pretty well and answered a few questions but I'll add my two cents. I will say this about recoil damaged tubes. The point of this advancement in technology wasn't about mounting PVS-14's to .308's, though that is a fantastic side benefit. The Military has fielded and is currently soliciting NV and blended products for weapon mounting on most Military weapon platforms. The issues in the past and current issues have been that the NV tube can't withstand recoil as well as is needed for these systems. This isn't me saying this, this is historic fact. The cost of replacing tubes and more importantly the time out of service and lets not minimize the cost of mission failure are the issues. I can't tell everyone on here what I know about recoil and testing because of NDA's but I can tell you this. What's been posted in this thread in regards to the testing of this technology is only the smallest drop in the bucket of the actual testing that's been done. Testing that spans multiple major defense contractors as well as outside consultants and consulting firms specializing in this field. The role MOD, I^2, IDENT played in this outside of it's initial concept and funding was the smallest of all. Example our prototype unit has had well over 10,000 on it on a SCAR-17 (the most brutal of all test platforms). That was just our testing, the extensive testing done by others will be shared with us and we will post what we can. Don't expect to see results for a Carl Gustav recoilless rifle but perhaps a Remington 700 in 7mm mag. The fact that we can distribute these tubes was part of our negotiated sale of the IP. The units we sell are not the fallout from another program but rather the exact same product produced for other ICT clients. This is significant and should demonstrate our commitment to the commercial market.

The other performance improvements stated above should stand for themselves. Is it worth it for someone on a budget to buy an RC system if they are never going to weapon mount it? Probably not. Is it for an avid NV hunter? Probably yes. Most of the benefit beside recoil ruggedness is in the extreme lowlight and highlight, though under normal conditions it's typically a noticeable difference as well. This should not be considered the market replacement for all tubes. This is meant for the customer needing recoil ruggedness and or enhanced performance in extreme conditions.

Expect to see these in many more platforms besides the PVS-14RC and SPRS. I'm dying to see what the third tier resellers who are attacking it in videos and sending the minions into the forums will say then.

 

[MBC223]

As I posted before, I sold my omni 8 to buy one of these and that choice was a good one. Last night in central Alabama it was zero moon, thousand foot overcast ceilings, raining, and foggy. I ran my rc14 head mounted with the gain around 30% and didn't touch my illuminator all night long. At the end of the night we had perforated more pork than I care to count. In bad weather the unit absolutely shines. It stands apart. Pete said it would, and it does. I for one don't care how it works. I don't give a shit if there's a little leprechaun in there with a mag light shining around. When conditions are bad and other 14s are looking mediocre, this one is stellar. It's worth the price tag even if you don't mount it on a 308. The damn thing just looks better, period. Keep up the solid work Pete.

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

This thing needs to be tested buy users that will use it like it needs to be used. Cough, cough....

Ill test it! Lol but seriously.....

Jay

 

[I^2 Technologies - Peter]

This thing needs to be tested buy users that will use it like it needs to be used. Cough, cough....

Ill test it! LoL but seriously.....

Jay

LOL so your hinting to be on the beta tester list? Anybody who wacks steel at a KILOMETER with just a PVS-14 hung off the back of a day optic? Ya got spunk kid! We need to talk to you! This thing has been tested every which way you can imagine! Then several more ways, dreamed up by a PHD physicist that I couldn't even conceive. Most don't know, we have been delivering these things for 6 plus months to customers. You see there wasn't a big flag waving roll out on this! The first units hit the shelves and there were those aware of the project that were standing in line money in hand. We didn't take pre-orders AT ALL! So we didn't want a glut of people screaming "take my money!" In Addition, we are beyond busy with R&D on a couple other "super" projects. Rolling stones grow no moss. I guess we do play our cards close to our vest and we don't solicit each and every one of our customer base to get on the internet and post about their purchasing experience. Apparently we are short on minions. Alas I only have one employee and she is bugging me for more help. Guess I have to figure out this whole Minion recruitment gig. Is there a book? Minions for dummies? Seriously there must be...

 

[murderman]

Pete,

It was Jason who brought up this whole concept of "minions" [which you also mention three times in your post], and I don't really know WTF that is all about? You used to be a really good guy to visit with about the details of tech stuff, but something seems to have changed? I am not at all into the industry politics, simply interested is straight responses to straight inquiries. I am finding that not possible in this day and age of hyper egos and competitiveness....oh well, what a shame for folks who use this stuff.

Take care, John

ETA - Please send me a copy of the "Minions for dummies" book when you get it such that we can all better understand how to interact effectively.

 

[Altnews]

Pete,

It was Jason who brought up this whole concept of "minions" [which you also mention three times in your post], and I don't really know WTF that is all about? You used to be a really good guy to visit with about the details of tech stuff, but something seems to have changed? I am not at all into the industry politics, simply interested is straight responses to straight inquiries. I am finding that not possible in this day and age of hyper egos and competitiveness....oh well, what a shame for folks who use this stuff.

Take care, John

ETA - Please send me a copy of the "Minions for dummies" book when you get it such that we can all better understand how to interact effectively.

It's a joke...Go see "Despicable Me" and "Despicable Me 2". Then you'll get it.

 

[MBC223]

Maybe, maybe not.