Model 70 Bolt Will Not Come Out

[Naaman]

Hello All,

I finally got my scope mounting hardware. To begin the install, I went to remove the bolt from the receiver, but it would not come out. I have not been able to mount the hardware onto the rifle.

Pressing the lever on the left side of receiver (safety in the middle position), when I try to remove the bolt, the action fully opens, but will only come out about 1/2 cm past fully open.

The action functions normally (cycles live ammo on both safe and fire), but the bolt will not come out of the receiver.

I have fired zero rounds through this rifle, which I bought last month.

I emailed Winchester's customer service. They want me to send them the rifle. I'm hoping I don't have to do this, and that someone knows what's going on here and can help me fix it (or tell me what I'm forgetting to do or check).

Thanks in advance.

 

[spife7980]

 

[mgoodrich]

I am assuming that you have just mounted your scope and this happened, correct?

There are different lengths of screws used for the front and back of the "rail" that the scope is attached to.

Just sounds like you used the longer screws in the back of the receiver that are now protruding down too far and catching the lug of the bolt, not allowing it to come out. So, just remove your "rail" and check the lengths of screws used. Those probably need to go on the front of the receiver.

Now, if you are trying to get the bolt out before you are mounting the scope, that is different, and it should come out as shown in the video link. If not then you need to send it bac, or have a local gun smith look at it to see if it is something simply.

 

[Nightlybane]

Maybe try and squeeze the trigger and pull it out?? Idk my mossberg .22 doesn't have a lever but I have to remove my peep sight and hold trigger down to remove the bolt.

 

[hereinaz]

I am assuming that you have just mounted your scope and this happened, correct?

There are different lengths of screws used for the front and back of the "rail" that the scope is attached to.

Just sounds like you used the longer screws in the back of the receiver that are now protruding down too far and catching the lug of the bolt, not allowing it to come out. So, just remove your "rail" and check the lengths of screws used. Those probably need to go on the front of the receiver.

Now, if you are trying to get the bolt out before you are mounting the scope, that is different, and it should come out as shown in the video link. If not then you need to send it bac, or have a local gun smith look at it to see if it is something simply.

Probably this. Pull the rail and try to remove it. If it comes out it was the rail screws protruding.

 

[Naaman]

I have not installed the rail yet. I was going to remove the bolt in order to install the rail, but stopped short because the bolt will not come out... It's real bummer, but... I know I'm not the first person to have problems...

I'll edit the first post to reflect this.

 

[USNavy06]

I had a model 70 classic where if I installed the action screws to tight it messed with the bolt release lever. I also couldn’t remove the bolt. If I’m understanding your question right I’d loosen the action screws and see if that helps.

 

[moosemeat]

Try pushing the lever down harder. I honestly have no idea beyond that unless like mentioned above, the stock is binding the release lever. I have a FN SPR and a M70 Featherweight. Never had this issue.

 

[hereinaz]

I had a model 70 classic where if I installed the action screws to tight it messed with the bolt release lever. I also couldn’t remove the bolt. If I’m understanding your question right I’d loosen the action screws and see if that helps.

I had that happen too...

 

[Naaman]

I'm thinking about sending it to SAC to have it looked at and possibly customized... we'll see what my finances can handle...

 

[Action Guy]

Remove the barreled action from the stock by removing the two action screws. If the stock is causing interference, the bolt will come out as designed. If not, you should be able to see what the problem is because most of the bolt stop will be exposed.

If it is the stock, you may have to relieve a bit of material from inside the stock until it clears the bolt stop lever.

AG

 

[Naaman]

Remove the barreled action from the stock by removing the two action screws. If the stock is causing interference, the bolt will come out as designed. If not, you should be able to see what the problem is because most of the bolt stop will be exposed.

If it is the stock, you may have to relieve a bit of material from inside the stock until it clears the bolt stop lever.

AG

Not that it isn't simple enough, but the mfr says not to disassemble that far. Is removal of the stock on a model 70 actually user level maintenance?

I have no problem tearing down my 870 shotgun (which is the next "closest" thing I have), but does removing the stock on the model 70 remove/alter the fitment (bedding or whatever)?

 

[BadAccountant]

Hello All,

I finally got my scope mounting hardware. To begin the install, I went to remove the bolt from the receiver, but it would not come out. I have not been able to mount the hardware onto the rifle.

Pressing the lever on the left side of receiver (safety in the middle position), when I try to remove the bolt, the action fully opens, but will only come out about 1/2 cm past fully open.

The action functions normally (cycles live ammo on both safe and fire), but the bolt will not come out of the receiver.

I have fired zero rounds through this rifle, which I bought last month.

I emailed Winchester's customer service. They want me to send them the rifle. I'm hoping I don't have to do this, and that someone knows what's going on here and can help me fix it (or tell me what I'm forgetting to do or check).

Thanks in advance.

Your bolt stop is stuck most likely.

 

[BadAccountant]

Here's what I want you to do:

1. Take action out of the stock.

This is what it should look like.

2. Next, pull the bolt as far back as you can.

3. Get a flathead screwdriver. You can see the bolt stop from the side of the action. It's above the screwdriver with the little "s" on it.

4. There is a gap between the bolt stop and the action. Put the screwdriver there.

5. Leverage it down. Once in the down position, gently pull back on the bolt, it should come free.

 

[jakelly]

If you’re going to own a rifle, you had better be able to remove the barreled action from the stock, this is primer level stuff (take that AI guys). Righty tighty lefty loosey.

 

[jetmd]

Nice job BadAct. that is about as simple and straight forward as it gets!
Great pictures also.

Yes this is most definitely owner level maintenance.

 

[Naaman]

If you’re going to own a rifle, you had better be able to remove the barreled action from the stock, this is primer level stuff (take that AI guys). Righty tighty lefty loosey.

I thought it was strange that the mfr only provides the steps to remove/disassemble the bolt. It's not that I'm unable to break down a rifle.

Here's what I want you to do:

1. Take action out of the stock.

This is what it should look like.
View attachment 7360330
2. Next, pull the bolt as far back as you can.
View attachment 7360331
3. Get a flathead screwdriver. You can see the bolt stop from the side of the action. It's above the screwdriver with the little "s" on it.
View attachment 7360333
4. There is a gap between the bolt stop and the action. Put the screwdriver there.
View attachment 7360334
5. Leverage it down. Once in the down position, gently pull back on the bolt, it should come free.
View attachment 7360335

I'm very thankful for the pics and explanation.

I have also read that there is an epoxy bedding from the factory that adheres the recoil lug to the stock. Is the consensus here that the bedding is of no value?

 

[sgtsmmiii]

No, as shitty as it sometimes looks, the bedding is usually OK for a down & dirty bedding job for the lug.

 

[Naaman]

But doesn't removing the action from the stock ruin the bedding? Is the idea to sacrifice the bedding in order to solve this problem?

 

[jakelly]

No, the bedding will be fine. It doesn’t glue the rifle together. Not sure which Winchester model 70 you have, but there are either two or three screws on the bottom of that rifle that you need to remove.

 

[want2learn]

BadAccountant....that was awesome. Thanks for taking the time to do that. Never saw how that part of the action worked.

 

[BadAccountant]

But doesn't removing the action from the stock ruin the bedding? Is the idea to sacrifice the bedding in order to solve this problem?

No. The bedding is a soft epoxy that dampens vibration and mates the recoil lug to the stock. It will not be damaged by removing the stock from the action. The yellow stuff on the pictures above is the epoxy they use. Rather than adhering the epoxy to the stock like most bedding jobs, Winchester decided to put the epoxy straight on the recoil lug.

 

[Naaman]

Okay. Thanks a lot sir.

Between the rifle itself and all the hardware to be installed on it, I'm $2500 into this thing and just wanted to be careful.

 

[moosemeat]

Disassembling a rifle from the stock is required for maintenance and will not damage anything.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Dude,
It's two screws and it won't void your warranty.
Quit hemming and hawing and pull it apart.
On Friday you were told exactly how to remedy this and its now Monday afternoon and you don't have a solution because you won't spend a lousy two minutes looking at it.

However, you're willing to ship it to a gunsmith to give it a once-over.
WTF?

If this is too much for you, then for God sakes, don't mount your own rail and scope.

People come on the Hide all the time looking for answers. People try and help out but when the OP refuses to do anything, it's like spitting in the helpers face.

 

[jetmd]

I thought I was the only member feeling that way Mike.

It is slightly more difficult than putting air in your tires, maybe a little less than checking the oil level.

 

[jetmd]

Oh Shit wait....make sure the weapon is unloaded.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Is this for real?

 

[Naaman]

Oh Shit wait....make sure the weapon is unloaded.

Is this for real?

Well, geez... I responded via pm to Mike. Perhaps I should have just posted it here.

 

[Naaman]

Here is the response I typed up for Mike:

Alright, check it out:

It's not that I feel like I owe you an explanation, but I'm feeling friendly today. So here you go.

1) I'm new to bolt guns (stocked guns, altogether, actually). Until it was explained to me in the thread where this quote is from, my understanding of "bedding" was that an epoxy was applied between the stock and the action/receiver, permanently affixing the two pieces together for the purpose of improving accuracy.

But because I "hemmed and hawed" with a follow up question, I now know that I misunderstood.

2) Because I did not understand what bedding was, but I did know that Winchester performed a "factory bedding" (which I always thought was typically an after market service), I believed that forcing the action from the stock would require me to then send the gun off to a smith or the factory for reinstallation (which would defeat the purpose of trying to solve the problem myself).

3) It was unclear to me from most of the responses that I read (and research that I had already done) whether people were offering advice specific to the Model 70, or to bolt actions in general, of which, I had come to believe that the Model 70 was some kind of special exception (due to the factory bedding). Thanks to BadAccountant's patience and detailed explanation, I now understand better what I have and what I can safely do.

4) Yes, I asked the question on Friday. And yes, it's now Monday. But the nature of message forums is that if I have follow up questions, the people helping aren't necessarily sitting around their computer waiting to answer my question immediately. People have lives to live. Now that my specific concerns have been addressed, I now understand that the problem I'm facing is well within my capacity to address. Removing a coat of epoxy and re-bedding a stock is not (which is what I thought would be required until I received the answer in this thread).

5) As I'm new to bolt guns, I don't know whether what follows is specific to Model 70 rifles or if other rifles are made this way, but according to the owners manual, the bolt and breach are machined together as a matched set (they are serialized together; the bolt from one Model 70 will not match up to the breach on another Model 70). One of my concerns was that my bolt somehow became out of spec and would no longer pass through the action. In the event that the bolt had somehow become damaged, I figured I would have to send it out anyway to possibly have the bolt and barrel replaced with another matched set.

So there are the reasons why I "hemmed and hawed" about whether what was being presented to me was truly user-level maintenance specific to the Model 70 and not just bolt guns in general.

Cheers.

 

[moosemeat]

Your bolt would still come out.
Bedding is not permanent bonding as in a AI, but just a epoxy that removes space so that the action sits in the stock more consistently.
Removing THIS rifle action from the stock will NOT void the warrenty and is infact part of routine maintenance if the rifle where to get wet and need wiped down.
I am not giving you shit. I am trying to help. If you have questions please ask. Someone here will help, but they may also give you shit about it. Welcome to the Hide.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Norm,
You're waaaaaaaayyyy over thinking this.

You're thinking like it's an AR, but it's not. In fact, even with an AR, the bolt to barrel fit isn't as critical as you're making it out to be.

On your Winchester,
the bolt and action are not machined as a set. In fact they are built entirely apart from each other in different areas of the Winchester factory.
The barrel is made elsewhere and all of the parts are brought together to build the rifle.
The matching that Winchester does (and also Remington) is to have a pile of receivers (AKA an action), a pile of bolts and a bunch of barrels in specific calibers.

The builder will grab a reciever and look at the build sheet. He/she/xyz will then select a barrel in the appropriate caliber/chambering and screw it on to the reciever. A go gauge will get inserted into the chamber and then a bolt with the correct cartridge face diameter is placed into the action. The bolt is closed on the gauge. If it closes, the guage is removed and a no-go guage goes in. The bolt should not fully close. If all is well, this becomes a "matched set."

If the bolt closes, then the worker will select another bolt and try again...
Some times, the worker will need to over torque a barrel to get headspace correct, but it's easier to just grab a different bolt. Remember, he/she/it has a big box of them to select from.
Once the bolt is headspaced to the action and the barrel that's installed on it, it stays with it for serial number etching.

Does that mean a different bolt won't fit? Of course not Many bolts will interchange with other rifles and headspace will be within acceptable tolerances. Many won't, but they will slide in and out of the action without binding.

The issue you have is simple.
Either your bolt release is binding or somehow the reciever is binding the bolt.

When you bought the rifle, was the bolt already installed or was it lying in the box wrapped in plastic? It should have been separated in the box along with your paperwork and a useless gun lock.
Did you place the bolt into the action? If so, did it bind putting it in?
If not, then it's just the bolt release sticking.

Either way, pull the action screws out and take a look at it.
The amount of time used to continue to respond to everyone is more than sufficient to completely build an AR and then tear it back down, drink some coffee and cook a steak.

The first post I made to you took me longer to write than it would have to find and fix the problem.

When you take the action screws out, the barreled action might need a little wiggling to come out. Don't worry, you won't break it.
Even the most ham fisted bull in a china shop won't break anything by taking the thing apart.

Go for it and let us know what you find

 

[Naaman]

Sadly, much to my chagrin, the previous advice is not the solution to my problem...

The first pic shows how far the bolt comes out without pressing the bolt release. The second pic shows how far it will go with the bolt release depressed. Its less than one additional cm.

I'm having trouble seeing inside the action, but still trying to figure this out.

 

[Naaman]

As to the issue of when I got the rifle, yes, the bolt went in smoothly. I even removed it once before and it came out smoothly.


Now that I think about it, when I let my 8 year old dry fire it, he got over excited and ran the action very aggressively several times before I realized and told him to chill out. At first I assumed thatthere was no way he was putting as much presssure on it as fired round would, but maybe yaniking back on it too hard causes a problem with the fire control group? I wonder if he could have dislodged a spring or pin or something...? I cannot see the part of the action that seems to have the problem.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Stupid question, but can you still cock and dry fire the rifle? Just wondering if something might have broke and it is not allowing the gun to cock. If I remember right it has to be cocked to remove the bolt. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Naaman]

Yes. Dryfire works just fine.

 

[RTH1800]

Suspecting bent bolt stop from slamming bolt into the stop.

 

[Pre-64]

Sometimes I have to hold down the bolt release and wiggle the bolt some to get it to come out.

 

[Naaman]

Suspecting bent bolt stop from slamming bolt into the stop.

Hmmm... all the components I can see clear just fine. Is the bolt stop the end/tip of the bolt release? If so, it fully clears.

Sometimes I have to hold down the bolt release and wiggle the bolt some to get it to come out.

How much wriggling are we talking about? I have tried all directions, but I do not want to force it. Even when it hangs up, there is play in all directions.

 

[Naaman]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

 

[Pre-64]

Have you tried putting your safety in the two different positions? You can wiggle it pretty hard, as long as you don’t get any tools out you aren’t going to hurt anything with just your hands.

 

[jetmd]

Naaman, where are you located?

We don't need your home address, just nearby city and state.

You would be amazed at the number of members who are willing to lend a helping hand with
small issues like this free of charge.

I am in Kansas City, MO.....can I help?

 

[Naaman]

Have you tried putting your safety in the two different positions? You can wiggle it pretty hard, as long as you don’t get any tools out you aren’t going to hurt anything with just your hands.

I'll try it some more.

Naaman, where are you located?

We don't need your home address, just nearby city and state.

You would be amazed at the number of members who are willing to lend a helping hand with
small issues like this free of charge.

I am in Kansas City, MO.....can I help?

I'm in the Phoenix area.
Local help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Naaman]

Well, I got it out. Had to tug on it. It "felt" like trying to pull something through an interference fit (even though there was play... it's like there was extreme drag at on specific position in the bolt's travel).

Here are some pics... anyone see any anomolies or anything damaged/altered?

 

[Pre-64]

Nothing looks out of place, the claw extractor looks to be a little out of alignment, you will just need to spin it to line up with the lug.

 

[Naaman]

Thanks. I was noticing that.

Now that I have the muscle memory to get it in and out, it will come out every time, but in order to get it out there is definitely a little bit of forceful tugging required, and to get it in, I have to smack the back of it or shove and wriggle it. It doesn't just slide in.

 

[Pre-64]

Thanks. I was noticing that.

Now that I have the muscle memory to get it in and out, it will come out every time, but in order to get it out there is definitely a little bit of forceful tugging required, and to get it in, I have to smack the back of it or shove and wriggle it. It doesn't just slide in.

That's normal, even on some of my most shot model 70's they will need some force to remove. Sounds like you're good to go. Enjoy your rifle, it's a good one.

 

[Naaman]

Well, alrighty then! Thanks you!

 

[hangunnr]

What is this indentation? None of my M70s have this. If it is in fact a dent as it appears and metal was moved down then that would pinch on the bolt raceway causing hard bolt removal.

 

[jetmd]

I'll try it some more.



I'm in the Phoenix area.
Local help would be greatly appreciated.

Well Sir if you live in Phoenix you are a Very fortunate man as you have a Great Gunsmith at your door!!

https://www.phoenixcustomrifles.com