Bout the only place I can tell you public is as good as private is some places in Texas. Public schools here in Louisiana suck. I fork out 20k a year for my 2 to go to a Private Catholic school. And you’re right, the difference is night and day….and I also demand results for my money.
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Modern Schooling
- Thread starter mvphilly
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I went to a shitty private school until second grade. There are some pretty good public schools in small towns around here. One of them is closer to 1 to 5 teacher to student but it's because there are only 50 kids pre-12. They graduate about 5 kids per year. It was also the only school that was entirely funded locally up until about 1995. There are no more private schools in the area but one charter school that is quite good.
You want to find shitty private schools. Look for progressive private schools.
You want to find shitty private schools. Look for progressive private schools.
This. You'd have to be out of your damn mind to trust the gov with educating your children.
It's not our imagination. It's the gurgling sound you are making. I was only laughing with the comment before.
Good one.
About as good as saying all teachers are retarded lazy pedos. Then saying he was a teacher. You one too?I was a trades teacher for a short while. I did my job in spite of no support from the higher ups. It was a training program for "at-risk" youths to learn a trade besides being a hoodlum. I was teaching electrical trade and I was the only instructor they had who was actually a working electrician. That was an adventure.Good one.
There are very good public schools but as you have stated and the data supports, private is better from an academic standpoint.
However, I think it has more to do with parenting than the school. Look at the types of students attending private schools. If you were to reverse the classrooms (public to private and private to public) I can guarantee the scores would reverse as well.
Why? Parental involvement, and usually educated parents.
That is what was said during the 60's about white schools versus black schools. You should study school integration history in East Baton Rouge Parish, Louisiana. Largest bus fleet in the nation. Bussed Black kids to White neighborhoods and bussed White kids to Black neighborhoods.
Bussing a black kid to a white neighborhood had no impact on how the parents changed.
Almost 50 years of being under a Federal Court order. Both me and my children lost out on a proper education.. The focus was on bussing and not educating.
i think parental involvement and basic discipline are components, but i also think parents are too often used as an excuse for bad teachers.
if obama did one good thing, it was spending $7 billion on trying to improve a small number of chronically failing schools.
what they discovered was that no amount of extra money or staff can improve these schools (so blame the parents, right?).
hold on though, one school did eventually break through and achieve higher scores and graduation rates.
they didn't replace the parents, they replaced the principal and almost every teacher.
Went up to the school where my wife works (spec-ed paraprofessional) and sat in on the class with her and the teacher she assists. I was there for 2½ hours and I was ready to stomp their little asses.
My opinion: The public school system has issues that need fixed. But until you fix the parents and "compel" them to raise their kids you're wasting your time fixing the schools.
We could have the best schools on the planet but it won't mean shit if the kids aren't teachable. And there are lots of unteachable kids due to lazy worthless parents.
Heinlein was right. Set up a whipping post in the town square and flog the parents for their kids misdeeds and you'll see a lot of things shape up quick.
Mike
My opinion: The public school system has issues that need fixed. But until you fix the parents and "compel" them to raise their kids you're wasting your time fixing the schools.
We could have the best schools on the planet but it won't mean shit if the kids aren't teachable. And there are lots of unteachable kids due to lazy worthless parents.
Heinlein was right. Set up a whipping post in the town square and flog the parents for their kids misdeeds and you'll see a lot of things shape up quick.
Mike
There are a lot other factors involved there, not sure that directly applies to today's scenario.
They are massive components. A stable home, safe environment, reinforcement of education, better nutrition, sleep etc..
One out of how many?
There are obviously broken school systems out there with a crap administration and teachers to go along with it. There are also great ones but a majority are going to be somewhere in the middle: good teachers, some bad/lazy but mostly good/decent.
I would like to know how many IEPs private school teachers have to deal with vs. public schools. How many mental/physical disorders private vs public school teachers.
Public schools do not get to select students, they get the whole gambit. Not really an equal playing field when judging teacher performance.
Not all of this is meant to be in response to you, just getting my thoughts out before i pass out.
All the incompetence, grooming and general retardation in our public schools IS BY DESIGN. There is no other plausible explanation. Staffing ratios, teachers pay, blah blah blah....my sister is a teacher, got attacked and beaten by a 6'2, 230 lb "child". Administration didn't back her and wouldn't call the police. Like that would have helped anyway....There is no fixing this shit. It's just like society in general, it is planned out.
It's culture. Bussing the children across town only changed their location for some hours. It did not change the culture at home.
Someone else said their were more factors at work. Well, the idea was, put the poor amish in a "nice" school and they will do better because somehow the "nice" school is teaching better than the "not nice" school, even if both are teaching the same subjects.
So, I see your depiction of the failure of bussing and raise you the life experience and judgement of Thomas Sowell.
To quote Steve Martin from "The Jerk," Sowell "was born a poor black child." And grew up in Harlem.
He had strong traditional family and they worked his butt off. He went to a segregated school that as high a standard for scholastics and behavior as any "nice" school. And he was a fellow at Harvard in economics. To this day, I think his book on basic economics should be required reading in any school or home school system.
It's not that anyone wanted the blacks to be separated. They were simply improving their lot in life on their own terms.
Here are two current proposals that illustrate how "the bar is being lowered" in education. My feeling is the bar has been lowered for the past 50 years and look at where we are, as a Country.
#1 - Moving public money to private schools.
#2 - Motion to have children start school later in the morning.
Louisiana House backs moving public money to private schools
Senate committee considers changes to its version of the proposal
www.wafb.com
BRAC findings show lack of sleep plaguing Capital Region schools, proposed later start times
BATON ROUGE - Alarm clocks could be set back a little later in the morning for some students and parents, if a bill is passed.
Proving that adults are also stupid. Throwing more money is not going to help. In fact, we are spending more per student than ever before and achieving less. And while I agree that holding schools and teachers to standards, I fear that the threat of losing ESA funding will cause schools to fudge grades even more to qualify for that gummint cheese.Here are two current proposals that illustrate how "the bar is being lowered" in education. My feeling is the bar has been lowered for the past 50 years and look at where we are, as a Country.
#1 - Moving public money to private schools.
#2 - Motion to have children start school later in the morning.
Louisiana House backs moving public money to private schools
Senate committee considers changes to its version of the proposalBRAC findings show lack of sleep plaguing Capital Region schools, proposed later start times
BATON ROUGE - Alarm clocks could be set back a little later in the morning for some students and parents, if a bill is passed.www.wbrz.com
Heinlein spoke of his grandfather who grew up on a farm outside of Butler, Missouri and went to a 1 room school. Chalkboard and chalk, some books, and a teacher paid directly by the townspeople. He had to drop out at the 8th grade level because his father passed away and he had to take over running the farm, which was the family business. Leaving school, he could read and write English, had read Shakespeare and the KJV Holy Bible and other works of the day. He had simple trig memorized. He could differential single variable calculus (using the short-cut) in his head. He could read, write, and speak German. He could read some greek and Hebrew.
We can spend whatever the insane budget is per year on a student and the person would not be able to do one of those things well. Not even English, which is the native language of this country.
It has to to do with standards and expectations. Which they are trying to erode.
I was talking with someone yesterday while we watched the eclipse. I was telling the story I had heard in my course work for a state commission to carry a firearm (early 80s) and that a police officer could be personally sued. It was a case (Chicago, I think. Our instructor had worked for Chicago PD) of a cop answering a call about a man with a gun at some apartments and waving it around and threatening people. He gets there in full uniform and brilliantly marked patrol car with the lights going. Steps out of the car and stays behind the door. There is a guy with a gun waving it at people. The cop pulls out his weapon and takes aim. He instructs the suspect to drop the weapon and take three steps back.
The suspect turns and fires at the police officer and misses. The officer fires back once and kills the suspect. On admin leave, the cop is found not guilty of homicide. He is cleared of criminal wrong-doing. But before I could get to that, the guy I was talking to asked if the suspect understood what the copy was saying or if he understood the culture didn't like that?
Yes, the guy I was talking to is amish, but in a nice way. And no, I don't think the suspect in the story was amish. Eventually, I got to make the point that the family of the suspect sued the police officer personally on the basis of the cop taking away the civil rights of the suspect when he shot and killed after shooting at said cop. I never said the suspect was amish but I think that is where his mind went. And why would he think that? Probably understanding the 13% is real, maybe.
So, there you have it. Culture. Some think it is okay to shoot at a police officer or anyone else trying to stop you from using your gun to intimidate or hurt other people.
So, like the label on a Winnebago that says the cruise control is for speed only, okay, fine, our culture does not like being shot at. Our culture values knowledge and self-discipline. Why do we even have to say that?
Schools should go back to the old ways of learning more by rote memorization. It has advantages most people don't take into account and don't understand. When you have something memorized, you can think about it in your spare time, wherever you are. In an elevator, on a school bus, waiting for something, or any other such time. Whatever you have memorized, is available immediately for you to remember and ponder. For example, if you remember Patrick Henry's famous speech, and ponder it idly, you might ponder why he was talking about fighting for something he implied we already had. Or if you remember Emily Dickenson's poem about counting with a tract between, you might ponder which of the meanings of the word "tract" she was using, and what it implied in that context. What students need to learn most is to be in the habit of pondering things and discovering connections they weren't aware of. But when they have time to ponder, it's usually not very convenient for them to recall the details of what they want to ponder. That's what makes rote memorizing so valuable, if it's done right, and not just crammed and forgotten. Likewise rote math. The best way to learn math is to do it so much that you start to see new implications and connections in it. Teachers can't cram that stuff down your throat, if you aren't receptive to it. But they can cram rote work down your throat. And doing the rote work can make you start discovering the stuff on your own, that the teacher would have otherwise tried to cram down your throat. If a problem has a shortcut way to solve it faster with less work, and the teacher tries to cram that shortcut down your throat when you're bored and uninterested in it, you aren't going to learn it or remember it. But if you discover the shortcut on your own, as a result of doing dozens of similar problems that can benefit from the shortcut, you're going to remember it forever, and it's going to make you start liking math, because you discovered a way to save yourself a lot of work, which made you feel good about it.
America, the mightiest country in the world, was built by children who attended class in a "One Room Schoolhouse".
Now, look at our schools of today.
How's that working out ?
Now, look at our schools of today.
How's that working out ?
That is what the Chinese do and there is a reason they have to steal technology. Forcing kids to apply concepts is far more beneficial. I can lookup the information I need most of the time using my cell phone. Information without the knowledge or capability to apply it is not the direction we should go.
only one school tried replacing all the crap teachers.
even that single success was not reported widely if at all in the reporting, because it doesn't fit the narrative.
i think the #1 factor in success is the quality of the teacher. if you have a crap teacher, almost nobody can succeed.
of course, liberals love failure factories disguised as public schools. they are a pipeline to dependency on big government.
Y'all don't seem to get the point here-
Public schools aren't failing now that culture has gotten out of control.
Government education is achieving it's end goal that it set out to long ago.
From day 1, government education was about controlling the populace via mind control. It's about turning wolves into docile little sheep and nationalistic corporate worker bees.
If it wasn't for government schooling we wouldn't have stood up for the bullshit wars, insane theft (taxation), CIA takeover of the political system, welfare state, and now open boarders, child genital mutilation, etc.
All those "real good schools" that taught math and history to you and your successful white grandparents are who brainwashed us into going along with this shit.
You work your ass off and earn three potato chips. The government eats one. Every two year old screams that's not fair (and will probably scream and hit). How come we all think this is just fine and normal? You went to school, that's why we think that.
Public schools aren't failing now that culture has gotten out of control.
Government education is achieving it's end goal that it set out to long ago.
From day 1, government education was about controlling the populace via mind control. It's about turning wolves into docile little sheep and nationalistic corporate worker bees.
If it wasn't for government schooling we wouldn't have stood up for the bullshit wars, insane theft (taxation), CIA takeover of the political system, welfare state, and now open boarders, child genital mutilation, etc.
All those "real good schools" that taught math and history to you and your successful white grandparents are who brainwashed us into going along with this shit.
You work your ass off and earn three potato chips. The government eats one. Every two year old screams that's not fair (and will probably scream and hit). How come we all think this is just fine and normal? You went to school, that's why we think that.
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My wife and I don't have any kids, but our friends/neighbors have a 12 year old daughter, and the stories she comes back from school with are incredible. What an absolute shit show.
Our education system here in the US is atrocious. We are a country in decline - we can't even setup our next generations for success.
I believe it's because how rigged and corrupted our economic and political system has become. A country ran by MBA's and crooked politicians. Everything now seems to be about maximum wealth extraction, rather then building for the future. And like almost every part of our economy and country, the education system seems to be following suit. There's no interest in setting up future generations for success with good education - it almost seems like they want the opposite.
Post secondary institutions have essentially become hedge funds, their primary role is not to teach. That's secondary or third (and it shows).
You would think that our education system would be a higher priority than sending tens of billions to some corrupt shithole to fight the Russians. But I guess not.
Our education system here in the US is atrocious. We are a country in decline - we can't even setup our next generations for success.
I believe it's because how rigged and corrupted our economic and political system has become. A country ran by MBA's and crooked politicians. Everything now seems to be about maximum wealth extraction, rather then building for the future. And like almost every part of our economy and country, the education system seems to be following suit. There's no interest in setting up future generations for success with good education - it almost seems like they want the opposite.
Post secondary institutions have essentially become hedge funds, their primary role is not to teach. That's secondary or third (and it shows).
You would think that our education system would be a higher priority than sending tens of billions to some corrupt shithole to fight the Russians. But I guess not.
Yea, I'm sure the reason why gangbanger Tyrone is failing reading because the teacher sucks.
they don't all succeed.
these "troubled" schools might be graduating <30% of the kids doomed to attend them (year after year)
getting up to 50% would probably be considered a significant improvement.
if they were "charter" schools, they'd rightly be shut down (although some states have shit charter systems too).
Exactly, but that is outside of the teachers control. No matter how good the teacher is a student who doesn't care and doesn't have a structured home environment will fail. The number of kids that fall into this category are increasing.
A good teacher is only one aspect. The system is way too complex to break it down to one variable.
one of my best friends taught at a high school in watts.
he didn't plan on teaching but they were hiring teachers without teaching credentials because they were desperate.
on the bright side, he got "combat pay" for working at one of the more dangerous schools.
anyway, met some of the teachers. one math teacher did coke on weekends with his lapd buddies.
one of my best friends taught at a high school in watts.
he didn't plan on teaching but they were hiring teachers without teaching credentials because they were desperate.
on the bright side, he got "combat pay" for working at one of the more dangerous schools.
anyway, met some of the teachers. one math teacher did coke on weekends with his lapd buddies.
Well it's a good thing his LAPD buddies were there to make sure the coke was snorted in a professional manner.
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